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Thread: California DOT Bans Public Display of American Flag as "Impermissible Public Expression"

  1. #1

    California DOT Bans Public Display of American Flag as "Impermissible Public Expression"

    WHAT???
    This is really getting to be too much.

    http://punditpress.blogspot.com/2011...isplay-of.html



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  3. #2
    Just damn, this is getting really weird. What about the U.N. flag? Is that banned as well?

    Close the post offices, their displays are impermissable! No more snail mail for California.

    Are they afraid you'll die in a flaming crash and offend people who see your sticker curl up and burn?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  4. #3
    When CalTrans heard, they stymied the effort, declaring the display of an American flag an "impermissible act of “public expression.”"

    Strange...

    I thought the Constitution guarantees there is no such thing as "impermissible" public expression. Go figure.

  5. #4
    Supporting Member
    North Carolina



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    Let's take one star off the flag, in memory of California.
    Equality is a false god.

    Armatissimi e Liberissimi

  6. #5
    This is a ruling arguably in favor of the first amendment (or against if you think people should be allowed to fly Nazi flags off gov't property). It stops CalTrans from permitting some types of speech but not others.

    "We must decide whether the California Department of Transportation's policy of permitting an individual to display United States flags, but no other expressive banners, on highway overpasses constitutes unreasonable viewpoint discrimination in violation of the First Amendment."

    http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-9th-circuit/1249576.html

  7. #6
    Somebody left a comment that might explain what has happened here.
    PolishKnight said...

    Gentlemen, although it would be tempting to blame Caltrans, they're only complying with a court order from some judge proclaiming that the American flag constitutes political speech. It was actually Caltrans that was on the RECEIVING end of that lawsuit and had tried to keep the flags up!

    The villain here is some judge who decided in terminator robot logical fashion that an American flag constituted political speech and therefore was illegal to be displayed on public roads. There's a lot wrong with that thinking including the notion that the 1st amendment PROHIBITS expression of political speech rather than PROTECTING it, that a specific monument cleared for construction is the same as hanging a political banner across an overpass, and finally that patriotic political speech is on the same level as anti-patriotic free speech.

    In theory, according to this judge, his precedent would require the white house to fly a pirate flag.
    May 12, 2011 9:17 AM

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Somebody left a comment that might explain what has happened here.
    Any time a judge is involved, nothing would surprise me. They are entirely unaccountable in this country.

    In my opinion, in this case the space should fall under the jurisdiction of the town.
    Equality is a false god.

    Armatissimi e Liberissimi

  9. #8
    Did you know prosecutors were not held accountable for withholding vindicating evidence against a defendent? This is crap.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by hillbilly123069 View Post
    WHAT???
    This is really getting to be too much.

    http://punditpress.blogspot.com/2011...isplay-of.html
    California government is hopelessly and stupidly corrupt. Revving your car engine is an illegal "show of speed" for which you can be ticketed - and a moving violation, no less as I recall.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  12. #10
    Here is a letter that I sent to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Judge Kim McLane Wardlaw. Her response could get the flag flying. A google search of her name finds that she is on Obama's short list to be appointed to the Surpreme Court.

    Old Town Orcutt Revitalization Association
    120 E. Clark Avenue, Orcutt, CA 93455

    The Honorable Kim McLane Wardlaw
    U.S. Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit
    P.O. Box 193939
    San Francisco, CA 94119

    April 22, 2011

    Re: Brown v. California Department of Transportation Case No. 02-15385
    Resulting in California Department of Transportation Policy Change

    Dear Judge Wardlaw:

    Did Caltrans’ interpret the decision correctly in Brown v. California Department of Transportation (hereinafter Caltrans) Case No. 02-15385 when they applied the court’s ruling to their current policy?

    Caltrans current policy does not allow the flag of the United States of America and the flag of the State of California to be displayed anywhere in the State right of way.

    California law allows the flag of the United States of America and the flag of the State of California to be displayed in the sidewalk area in the State right of way.

    Caltrans admitted that their decision to change their policy was based solely on their defeat at appeal to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in Brown v. Caltrans Case No. 02-15385.

    My opinion is that Caltrans simply lost the lawsuit because 1. Caltrans allowed freedom of expression on a non public forum (the overpass) 2. Caltrans discriminated on the basis of viewpoint 3. Caltrans violated their own pre Brown v. Caltrans policy by allowing anything to be hung from an overpass that was distracting and potentially dangerous to the public.

    In questioning a Caltrans representative on why our recent “Gateway Monument” permit was denied I was told that "The display of the United States flag constituted expressive activity, within the meaning of the First Amendment".

    While I agree with Caltrans’ statement in context to Brown v. Caltrans, where the flag was draped over the overpass, I do not agree that it applies to the daily occurrence of flying the American flag as a symbol of our great nation and in full compliance with the United States Flag Code.

    Since the birth of our nation the purpose of the American flag was and is to serve as a symbol of our country. The American flag and Freedom are inseparable much like the heart and soul of a man,

    When does the American flag transition from being the symbol of the United States of America to becoming someone's form of speech or expression?

    In a landmark Supreme Court Case Texas v. Johnson the Court ruled in favor of Gregory Lee Johnson, then a member of the Revolutionary Communist Youth Brigade, finding that Johnson's burning of the flag was expressive conduct protected by the First Amendment.

    The American flag that Johnson burned was stolen from a flagpole. I contend that the American flag transitioned from being the symbol of the United States of America when it was stolen from the flagpole where it was being displayed as the symbol of the United States of America and according to United States law.

    When the flag thief first touched that American flag it became desecrated and it was then and there that the flag transitioned into becoming someone's “free speech or expression”. Did Johnson have a right to burn the flag? Hell no, the flag didn't belong to him (my opinion).

    Does anyone have a right to burn the American flag? Yes, because we are free to express ourselves. But at the point of desecration the flag ceases being the symbol of America's freedom. And that freedom must remain forever pure for the world to witness.

    I believe Caltrans current policy removes public forums. The multiplicity of transportation components in the evolution of Caltrans right of ways has effectively created three categories of public forums, including the traditional public forum which is held in the highest regard.

    In many scenarios throughout California, the consequences of Caltrans changing their policy has been the removal of traditional public forums (sidewalks and parks) from the State right of ways.

    There was no compelling State interest in Caltrans changing their policy. Nothing had changed in the sidewalk areas. The overpasses were still off limits.

    Supreme Court Justice Roberts’ 1939 dictum states “traditional public forums have been held in trust for the public and from ancient times, been a part of the privileges, immunities, rights and liberties of citizens.” Traditional public forums cannot be changed to nonpublic forums by governments.

    In closing, I believe that Caltrans current policy demoralizes patriotism, discourages national pride and is an injustice to every American.

    Your response to my opinions could be immeasurably helpful in getting the American flag flying once again in suitable areas of the California State right of ways.

    Respectfully,
    Steve LeBard
    OTORA President
    805-714-1165 email admin@orcutt.biz

  13. #11
    Steve, thanks for the post and welcome to the forum!

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by hillbilly123069 View Post
    WHAT???
    This is really getting to be too much.

    http://punditpress.blogspot.com/2011...isplay-of.html
    How is displaying a flag not an expression?

  15. #13
    Sadly, if one were to take a strict constructionist view of the Constitution, it would be found that the Constitution does not protect an individual's right to free speech.

    Congress shall make no law...



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