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  • danda's Avatar
    05-21-2016, 03:28 PM
    downsizing government. sounds like win-win.
    22 replies | 524 view(s)
  • danda's Avatar
    05-18-2016, 10:05 PM
    It doesn't necessarily. But "natural rights" is commonly brought up as a basis for libertarian thought. and for property rights. Most every libertarian book I've read discusses it. So I am simply pointing out that the right of movement/travel (and by extension free will) does exist in nature, whereas property rights do not. They are artificial. Therefore, in any system that builds upon or espouses "natural rights", it would seem that freedom of movement where one pleases should be given a higher priority than an artificial construct of "property". If "natural rights" are thrown out the window, then of course the argument is void. No one is advocating that position. void.
    94 replies | 1657 view(s)
  • danda's Avatar
    05-18-2016, 07:39 PM
    The lion does not band together with 1 million other lions and divide up the land into tiny sections, and make up all sorts of other rules that you are just expected to know and haul you away to the lion's cave at night if you happen to violate one of them. Not really simplistic. If it were, I expect we'd have done it by now. :D Haven't you read any sci-fi? As a youngster I read several books with examples of such societies. The first that comes to mind is the very advanced morlock race ( future humans ) that built a ring around the Sun in "The Timeships" by Stephen Baxter. A sequel to "The Time Machine".
    94 replies | 1657 view(s)
  • danda's Avatar
    05-18-2016, 07:26 PM
    Please note: I am mainly playing devil's advocate here. I consider myself somewhere in the spectrum of libertarian/voluntaryist/anarchist, so I'm not arguing for any type of statism. But I think there is some intellectual weakness at the base of libertarian property rights and I find it interesting to think about if there isn't a more fundamental truth that does not require a nebulous, ill defined, and state-enforced concept of "property". Again I would be appreciative if anyone can point me towards any written works that address the topics I bring up below. -------- Any argument based on a desired economic outcome is fundamentally a utilitarian/practical argument as opposed to one based on pure ethics/morality/logic. As I stated in my post.
    94 replies | 1657 view(s)
  • danda's Avatar
    05-18-2016, 03:36 PM
    while I don't agree with the OP on several points, there are legitimate arguments against libertarianism, or at least concerns. In particular private property rights is built on some tenuous logic. (homesteading principle, mixing labor with the land, etc ) Native americans and other cultures did just fine without property rights, at least of land. And by definition if I claim a piece of land as mine and society enforces that, then that has limited the freedom of all to travel on or use that land. Even though others might use it more efficiently and productively than me. Thus a core principle of libertarianism ( private property ) is in direct conflict with other core principles: 1) non-aggression: because enforcement of the private property may require force / aggression on a peaceful individual. 2) freedom: eg, of movement, of travel. because I may not go where I please and others may own all the land around me. The restriction of liberty argument can be made for any tangible object. The libertarian argument of property rights may be more a practical/utilitarian argument than a moral/ethical one. I think that in a truly enlightened culture living in a state of pure liberty, sharing would be the norm and outright theft would be exceptionally rare. It seems to me there is room for a brand of libertarianism that is based on the NAP, but with a lessened or non-existent stance on property rights beyond one's own body. Such a crede could form the basis of a sharing culture.
    94 replies | 1657 view(s)
  • danda's Avatar
    05-14-2016, 11:25 PM
    Mr. Boaz comments seem, uh, petty and uninformed. The moment that any of the USA networks such as FOX, NBC, CBS etc agree to air libertarian debates I'm sure it would be goodbye RT. Until then.... wtf does he suggest? oh, that's right. he doesn't suggest anything constructive at all.
    13 replies | 421 view(s)
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