What is the alt-right?

[Tywysog Cymru]

I think the difference between alt right and libertarians is pretty small. Both movements want a throwback to pre-Civil War America. For libertarians, the emphasis is on state sovereignty and a minimal role for the fedgov. Alt right wants the same thing, except the emphasis is on racial politics.

Note the word "emphasis." Each side has a different emphasis, ie, a different reason for wanting the same thing, but the two sides very much want the same thing, a fact many libertarians are uncomfortable with.

No, we don't want the same thing at all. The alt-right is not interested in limiting government or cutting taxes, they just want to bring back segregation.

[ArrestPoliticians]

No.

1) Trump is the undisputed favorite of the Alt-Right.
2) Not all Trump supporters are Alt-Right.
3) The Alt-Right are softcore white nationalists.
4) A broad wedge of Trump's support comes from Alt-Right
5) Alt-Right is a spinoff of white nationalism that preceedes Trump2016 by a decade.
6) Alt Right like trump because YUGE WALL = Less hispanics diluting the white gene pool.

They were also supporting Ron Paul for the same reason(immigration enforcement). As a former paleocon/buchananite, I came to Ron Paul for that very reason in 2007.

[willwash]

No, we don't want the same thing at all. The alt-right is not interested in limiting government or cutting taxes, they just want to bring back segregation.

Some of them probably want forced segregation. I don't think most do. I think most would simply be satisfied with a repeal of all forms of affirmative action, ending welfare (or making receipt of welfare benefits contingent upon voluntary temporary sterilization [like IUDs]), strict enforcement of immigration laws including deportation of illegals already here, and legalizing voluntary segregation (ie, a homeowner's association which wants to limit membership explicitly only to whites should be allowed to do so).

Libertarians agree with all or at least most of that. Note I didn't say AnCaps who are pro open borders and coopting this movement for their own (in my view) nefarious ends. I said libertarians, who do in fact support the US Constitution. Granted it is in the larger context of shrinking government, but the uncomfortable truth is libertarians and alt right want many of the same things.

[brushfire]

The alt-right is white identity politics.

I dont know enough about it really, but its reminiscent of when I'd first heard of a "juggalo". At first glance I remember thinking WTF? The more I read about it the more absurd it became. I've not read much on this alt-white, but at first glance it looked like all the annoying media plants I had met in the tea party were coalescing into one group.

Not that wikipedia is the authority on reliable info, but here's what I had found there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right

[cajuncocoa]

No, we don't want the same thing at all. The alt-right is not interested in limiting government or cutting taxes, they just want to bring back segregation.

Exactly, and this is what gives "states rights" a bad name. This is why we can't have nice things.

[Tywysog Cymru]

Some of them probably want forced segregation. I don't think most do. I think most would simply be satisfied with a repeal of all forms of affirmative action, ending welfare (or making receipt of welfare benefits contingent upon voluntary temporary sterilization [like IUDs]), strict enforcement of immigration laws including deportation of illegals already here, and legalizing voluntary segregation (ie, a homeowner's association which wants to limit membership explicitly only to whites should be allowed to do so).

Libertarians agree with all or at least most of that. Note I didn't say AnCaps who are pro open borders and coopting this movement for their own (in my view) nefarious ends. I said libertarians, who do in fact support the US Constitution. Granted it is in the larger context of shrinking government, but the uncomfortable truth is libertarians and alt right want many of the same things.

The alt-right would enact forced segregation if they somehow got into power. What they want can't be achieved through voluntary means.

[cajuncocoa]

I think the difference between alt right and libertarians is pretty small. Both movements want a throwback to pre-Civil War America. For libertarians, the emphasis is on state sovereignty and a minimal role for the fedgov. Alt right wants the same thing, except the emphasis is on racial politics.

Note the word "emphasis." Each side has a different emphasis, ie, a different reason for wanting the same thing, but the two sides very much want the same thing, a fact many libertarians are uncomfortable with.

I see a lot of venom spewn about about "racism" and "white supremacism" and "white nationalism" but the funny thing that libertarians love to gloss over is the fact that the people they tend to admire and respect the most: Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, James Madison--you know, the people without whom we'd never have had a nation or let alone a Constitution--were by every single modern definition of the word "racists," "white supremacists" and "white nationalists."

Libertarianism in its modern form is arguably an intellectually dishonest expression of admiration for these men. Alt right simply takes it all the way.

Do you understand the concept of "compartmentalization"?

I've mentioned many times before on this board -- I'm a huge fan of the group Earth, Wind & Fire. I have all of their albums and I've been to many of their concerts. Does that mean I have to embrace Philip Bailey's politics as well? I know he's a big fan of President Obama, so I'm pretty sure we wouldn't get along as far as that's concerned, but I absolutely LOVE his voice.

Libertarians admire the men you mentioned because of the vision they had for this country, but as you pointed out, they weren't perfect -- far from it. We're well aware that they were slave owners, and (not speaking for all libertarians here, only myself) they are not admired for that.

[presence]

The alt-right would enact forced segregation if they somehow got into power. What they want can't be achieved through voluntary means.

Actually, I don't think this is their goal. White nationalists yes, alt-right not so much.

The alt-right and libertarians do have some common ground on the "civil rights" issue:

1964 Civil Rights Act

many libertarians believe that a private business should be able to remove and deny a customer for any reason as a matter of freedom of association and free markets; this means christians don't bake gay cake and white supremacists don't serve blacks beer. the alt-right agrees, because they don't want to serve blacks beer. the alt right seeks segregation by social forces. the libertarian seeks the free market; conceding the right of the chauvinist to deny services by social forces.

as a line item policy issue many libertarians and alt-right would repeal the civil rights act; albeit for different reasons.

the alt-right because they desire and intend to say "$#@! blacks".
the libertarian because free people ought to have the right to say "$#@! blacks", even if we don't agree with the notion.

the alt-right arrives at the policy position from a foundation of racial chauvanism
the libertarian arrives at the policy position from a foundation of austrian economics

[Ronin Truth]

alt-right

About 18,700,000 results

https://www.google.com/search?q=alt-....0.egm8iKq2O90

[Tywysog Cymru]

Actually, I don't think this is their goal. White nationalists yes, alt-right not so much.

The alt-right and libertarians do have some common ground on the "civil rights" issue:

The alt-right would eventually advocate for forced segregation because without that they can't stop their neighbor from selling their house to a black person.

[willwash]

Actually, I don't think this is their goal. White nationalists yes, alt-right not so much.

The alt-right and libertarians do have some common ground on the "civil rights" issue:

1964 Civil Rights Act

many libertarians believe that a private business should be able to remove and deny a customer for any reason as a matter of freedom of association and free markets; this means christians don't bake gay cake and white supremacists don't serve blacks beer. the alt-right agrees, because they don't want to serve blacks beer. the alt right seeks segregation by social forces. the libertarian seeks the free market; conceding the right of the chauvinist to deny services by social forces.

as a line item policy issue many libertarians and alt-right would repeal the civil rights act; albeit for different reasons.

the alt-right because they desire and intend to say "$#@! blacks".
the libertarian because free people ought to have the right to say "$#@! blacks", even if we don't agree with the notion.

the alt-right arrives at the policy position from a foundation of racial chauvanism
the libertarian arrives at the policy position from a foundation of austrian economics

This. This is what I was trying to say in my first post. Presence has presented it I think a little more clearly...

...

...

Presence presently presents arguments with a more prescient presence than I can at present.

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

[cajuncocoa]

This. This is what I was trying to say in my first post. Presence has presented it I think a little more clearly...

...

...

Presence presently presents arguments with a more prescient presence than I can at present.

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

No need to apologize. I agree, presence articulated that well and accurately. But the fact remains, the two groups (alr-right and libertarians) have differing motivations that are overlooked -- intentionally, I think, and unfairly. TC spells it out here:

The alt-right would enact forced segregation if they somehow got into power. What they want can't be achieved through voluntary means.

For libertarians, it's a property rights issue.
For the alt-right, it's a racial purity issue.
I don't think I'm wrong about that. Alt-right blogs and liberty blogs bear witness to my hypotheses.

The alt-right wants government protection and regulation to maintain racial purity.
Libertarians don't want the government telling us what we can do on our own property.

[pcosmar]

Bull$#@!.

Not from all the posts here,, that I have seen..
Not from the Trump supporters I observe.

National Socialism is rising and Trump is surfing the wave.

[Smitty]

As for segregation, I'd guess that a lot of the Alt-Right would voluntarily practice self segregation. In fact, they already do. So do a lot of other people including Libertarians, Conservatives, and Democrats.

Freedom of association, and all that.

[Smitty]

In fact, a large number of minorities practice self segregation. Malcome X was a big advocate for it.

[Jamesiv1]

In fact, a large number of minorities practice self segregation. Malcome X was a big advocate for it.

people naturally segregate - all things being equal (schools and such) and with zero govt involvement.

birds of a feather flock together.

And there is nothing wrong with that.

[thoughtomator]

alt-right

About 18,700,000 results

https://www.google.com/search?q=alt-....0.egm8iKq2O90

From the results, it looks like the term is used mainly to tag political opponents as racist, as it is being used here.

[presence]

As for segregation, I'd guess that a lot of the Alt-Right would voluntarily practice self segregation. In fact, they already do. So do a lot of other people including Libertarians, Conservatives, and Democrats.

Freedom of association, and all that.

The alt right seems to want to take a positive step towards gov't segregation as well.

YUGE WALL
Send "the illegals" home
immigration quotas

and this is where libertarian thought differs

while libertarians agree we don't want the state doing things like "desegregation" and purposefully putting black families in "HUD" houses in white neighborhoods to "encourage diversity"; libertarians are generally in favor of free movement of goods and labor across borders.

alt-right seeks entho-cultural-racial segregation policies at the state level

libertarians seek no social policies at the state level

The Path to Pragmatic Alt-Right Immigration Reform


Immigration, both legal and illegal, present the greatest threat to the preservation of American society and the White majority on which this society is predicated.

http://therightstuff.biz/2015/08/04/...ration-reform/

Ron's position on immigration is simple.
Free movement of people, free movement of goods.
No voting rights or benefits unless you apply for citizenship.

[cajuncocoa]

I know feminism is not a popular topic in general on this board, and in its current over-the-top manifestation, I wouldn't embrace it either. Having said that, the alt-right is a little backwards in the way they view women as well...I've encountered it on this board in a few topics. I'm going to provide some examples that I just saw on one of the alt-right blogs (Return of Kings) where we will learn that I might just be a slut (what a crock. I'm about as far from a slut as a woman can get without returning to a state of virginity. TMI?)

I’m purposely not going to include his overtly sexual examples but let's go…

Ladies (and I use that term very cautiously) You may be a slut if....

You smoke cigarettes *raises hand* (I did in a past life)
You have mostly “guy” friends *raises hand*
You wear colored contact lenses *raises hand*
You wear hoop earrings "the bigger the hoop, the bigger the hoe" - *raises hand* (I'm wearing hoop earrings right now...large ones)
You have multiple brothers (I get a pass on this one; I'm an only child )
You went to a Catholic or all-girls school *raises hand* (I did both, Catholic school 1-8, all-girls HS)
You have a loud voice, or a loud laugh *raises hand* (I have a loud laugh)
You’re an athlete, especially at the “elite” level
You order a whiskey at the bar
You have “too many” Facebook friends *raises hand* (I have a lot of FB friends!)
You majored in Psychology *raises hand* (I didn’t but I wanted to.)
You're always late (he doesn't mean your period.)
You have an “oversized jaw” or a “large mouth”
You’re “somewhat overweight” *raises hand* (y’all saw my "before" picture, probably considered a bit more than slightly though)


http://www.returnofkings.com/23539/2...ns-shes-a-slut


You live alone
Your hobby is an art, but you suck at it *raises hand* (I write short stories. I probably suck at it.)
You’ve worked at a call center *raises hand* (does phone banking count?)

http://www.returnofkings.com/84445/6...to-be-aware-of


You have a tattoo
You have a body piercing
You cuss outside of the bedroom
You’re not ticklish
You broach the topic of illegal drugs *raises hand* (All of us do that here at RPF, no?)
You have big tits
You have excessive body hair
You were in a sorority
You were a cheerleader in high school
You attended a party university (hello, LSU?…no, not me…I went to UNO about as far from a party school as you can get...LOL)
You like tequila shots
You’re friends with a DJ, promoter, or some other pseudo-celeb *raises hand* (it goes with the territory of having worked in the ad industry, dumbass!!)
http://www.returnofkings.com/16837/24-signs-shes-a-slut)

[LibertyEagle]

The alt right seems to want to take a positive step towards gov't segregation as well.

YUGE WALL
Send "the illegals" home
immigration quotas

and this is where libertarian thought differs

while libertarians agree we don't want the state doing things like "desegregation" and purposefully putting black families in "HUD" houses in white neighborhoods to "encourage diversity"; libertarians are generally in favor of free movement of goods and labor across borders.

Well, guess what. We are in luck. This forum is NOT a "libertarian" forum. And last time I checked, advocating for the Constitution, national borders and national sovereignty was not against forum guidelines.

alt-right seeks entho-cultural-racial segregation policies at the state level

libertarians seek no social policies at the state level


http://therightstuff.biz/2015/08/04/...ration-reform/

I can find some neat links about libertarianism too. Puts them in all kinds of neat little categories.

Ron's position on immigration is simple.
Free movement of people, free movement of goods.
No voting rights or benefits unless you apply for citizenship.

Ron is for borders and national sovereignty. He does not support the illegal alien invasion of our country.

[cajuncocoa]

From the results, it looks like the term is used mainly to tag political opponents as racist, as it is being used here.

Have you looked at the websites of those who identify as alt-right members themselves, thoughtomator?

[cajuncocoa]

As for segregation, I'd guess that a lot of the Alt-Right would voluntarily practice self segregation. In fact, they already do. So do a lot of other people including Libertarians, Conservatives, and Democrats.

Freedom of association, and all that.

And as long as you're doing it freely, I see no problem. The problem comes in when people ask the government to build a wall, or -- as someone posted in a thread last week -- divide the country and move people forcibly out of their homes so this group can be put here and another can be put there. THAT'S when it becomes a problem. As long as it's all voluntary, who cares?

[cajuncocoa]

Well, guess what. We are in luck. This forum is NOT a "libertarian" forum. And last time I checked, advocating for the Constitution, national borders and national sovereignty was not against forum guidelines.

You're right. It's not exclusively a libertarian forum. But didn't Bryan say last night that we're all welcome here? All political ideologies without respect to parties, etc.? As long as the focus is on liberty, that is?

[thoughtomator]

Have you looked at the websites of those who identify as alt-right members themselves, thoughtomator?

I couldn't find one. Search results pull up almost exclusively mentions by its opponents tagging the term as white nationalist yet at the same time stretching it to cover all anti-establishment views left of center (including libertarian views).

There's a distinct Hal Turner feel to this.

[cajuncocoa]

I couldn't find one. Search results pull up almost exclusively mentions by its opponents tagging the term as white nationalist yet at the same time stretching it to cover all anti-establishment views left of center (including libertarian views).

There's a distinct Hal Turner feel to this.

Look at this graphic:



See each of those names that branch off from "Ethno-Nationalists"? Those are blogs with that area of interest. Google those names.

[thoughtomator]

Look at this graphic:



See each of those names that branch off from "Ethno-Nationalists"? Those are blogs with that area of interest. Google those names.

If only "ethno-nationalists" identify with the term, why does the chart include mainly people who are not "ethno-nationalist"? Who made this chart?

[cajuncocoa]

If only "ethno-nationalists" identify with the term, why does the chart include mainly people who are not "ethno-nationalist"? Who made this chart?

I don't know who made the chart. I found it on RationalWiki.

I have no idea if the others are not ethno-centrists. Only that it's probably not the focus of that particular blog. Alt-right encompasses more than racist purity; that point has been discussed in this thread (I believe...I've mentioned how they view women, and the blogs that branch from "Femininity" confirm that.)

Did you attempt to Google any of those blogs? You should be able to understand if you do.

[erowe1]

They were also supporting Ron Paul for the same reason(immigration enforcement). As a former paleocon/buchananite, I came to Ron Paul for that very reason in 2007.

Why did you choose Paul over Tancredo and Hunter? On that issue, Paul was one of the furthest away from where you're saying you are in both that election and 2012.

[ArrestPoliticians]

Why did you choose Paul over Tancredo and Hunter? On that issue, Paul was one of the furthest away from where you're saying you are in both that election and 2012.

I liked Tancredo and Paul, but Paul gained more traction and I also agreed with him on foreign policy(as a paleocon). Paul was one of the most strongly anti-illegal immigration in 2008, easily, talking about a North American Union conspiracy

[Tywysog Cymru]

In fact, a large number of minorities practice self segregation. Malcome X was a big advocate for it.

And Malcolm X was wrong too.

people naturally segregate - all things being equal (schools and such) and with zero govt involvement.

birds of a feather flock together.

And there is nothing wrong with that.

Then why did segregation have to be forced upon people by law in parts of the United States, South Africa, etc.?

I know feminism is not a popular topic in general on this board, and in its current over-the-top manifestation, I wouldn't embrace it either. Having said that, the alt-right is a little backwards in the way they view women as well...I've encountered it on this board in a few topics. I'm going to provide some examples that I just saw on one of the alt-right blogs (Return of Kings) where we will learn that I might just be a slut (what a crock. I'm about as far from a slut as a woman can get and without being a virgin. TMI?)

Roosh V (the guy who runs that site) is known for advocating that men should sleep with as many women as they want while women should refrain from promiscuity. Many in the alt-right view themselves as "alpha males" as opposed to the "cucks." Of course, the "cucks" are often married and have families while the "alpha male" alt-rightists usually don't. The only explanation that they have for this is that there is something wrong with the women.

Here's some of his books:

Nobody wants to swim through endless oceans of anarchist bull$#@! in order to discuss liberty with libertarians - yet here we are.

I'm not an anarchist and I feel comfortable here.