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"Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
"War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.
That part is true. The Fed actively pursued a deflationary policy as interventionist Rothbard advocated. They tightened credit to protect the dollar and caused incomes to fall which made it harder to service debt which led to a spiral of bankruptcies. Deflation caused the first part of the Great Depression. It was THE reason. And that intervention was a major government failure.Government intervention caused the depression and then fueled, prolonged and exacerbated the great depression.
So you think union rules, tariffs, tax hikes and public works projects like the Hoover Dam caused the stock market to fall 86%? Those things didn't ever cause cause the stock market to drop 86% and unemployment over 20% before or since. Wonder why. Real puzzler. Maybe discarding that theory would be worthwhile.
Is the 1920 comparable to 2020? Was the average person and business as leveraged in 1920 as 2020? I am going to guess not. And that being the case, how many years will going through bankruptcies last now if things are just allowed to "readjust"?The collapse of 1920 was deeper. But most people don’t learn about it in the public indoctrination system (aka public education).
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"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
Proponent of real science.
The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.
Questions that unfortunately reflect the typical false statist dogma of history and mythical statist Keynesian economic theory taught in the public indoctrination system.
The prior ten years easy money policies and artificial credit expansion of the Federal Reserve inflated the 1929 stock market bubble that inevitably popped. (This is Known as the Federal Reserve Boom-Bust Cycle.)
Yes. Government intervention massively exacerbated and needlessly extended the subsequent "Great Depression", and pushed the unemployment rate up, and prolonged the depression to over ten years. (First under Hoover with the fair trade and fair labor policies, the high wage policies, the increased taxes, the massive pork spending projects, the federal levies, the artificial price supports, the Norris-Laguardia Act, the Federal Reconstruction Finance Corporation, the artificial public credit extensions, the public works projects, the Smoot-Hawley tariffs, the bailouts, and other redistributions and market distortions, followed by the FDR’s equally disastrous New Deal projects). Yes, the artificial wage inflation policies and trade wars and rest of intervention caused the unemployment to rise much higher and last much longer.
Government intervention impeded the free markets ability to regulate the economy back to normal by purging all the bad debt, mal-investment, distorted rate, moral hazards, distorted price signals and wages, over-leveraging, artificial credit expansion, the inflation shifting wealth from workers and saver to speculators, the national debt, the redistribution of wealth, the government regulations, taxes, the excess leverage, the economic infections and poisons, etc.
Yes, the laws of economics, and free markets apply just the same in 1920s as in 2020. It’s like saying we should ignore the laws of mathematics because 2020 is different from 1920.
Nope. Government and Federal Reserve policies through their endless cycles of intervention, artificial credit expansion, distortions, and Quantitative inflation have made the debt load (national debt, unfunded liabilities, corporate debt, consumer debt, student debt and more) far worse now. That is all the more reason why it should be allowed to be purged from the system as quickly as possible.
Will it take one year, two years, or four years if allowed to be properly purged by free market? I don’t know. What is certain, however, is that more government intervention inhibits and prevents theses distortions, and bad debt from being purged. Because the debt and distortions are so much worse now, the effects by government/fed intervention to further distort will magnify, exacerbate and prolonged even longer and worse, and probably far worse than in the 1930s. One, two or five years of pain to cure, is better than ten, twenty, fifty years of pain that doesn’t cure but only makes the economy sicker.
Krugminator’s questions reflect that Krugmninator has zero understanding of the Federal Reserve boom-bust cycles, or Austrian economics. That is wholly unacceptable for someone that has been on this forum for over five years.
Make a little effort to at least educate yourself.
These are filled with free resources. Read them. Take watch seminars. Take the courses.:
The Great Depression : https://mises.org/search-mises?searc...t%20depression
The Boom Bust Cycle: https://mises.org/search-mises?searc...ort_order=DESC
After five years on the forum, there is no excuse for being ignorant of such basics.
Last edited by AZJoe; 03-28-2020 at 11:48 AM.
"Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
"War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.
Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne,--
Yet that scaffold sways the future, and, behind the dim unknown,
Standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above his own.
Here are the following books I have read by Austrians. Have the physical copies nicely dogeared, underlined and coffee stained on all but Rothbard's which I got from the library system.
1. Human Action
2. Theory of Money and Credit
3. America's Great Depression
4. Economics in One Lesson
5. Road to Serfdom
6. The Constitution of Liberty
7. The Fatal Conceit
What is your excuse for not reading Milton Friedman or Scott Sumner? Why are you so ill informed on depressions?
Read the Midas Paradox. https://www.amazon.com/Midas-Paradox...5422992&sr=8-1 Will make you less ill informed. Endorsements from Mises Institute people like Roger Garrison and Leland Yeager.
What is funny is you are telling me to learn Austrian economics but the most prominent Austrian, FA Hayek, doesn't agree with your viewpoint of the depression at all.
Last edited by Krugminator2; 03-28-2020 at 01:20 PM.
"Bread & Circus"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses
"Bread and circuses" (or bread and games; from Latin: panem et circenses) is a metonymic phrase critiquing superficial appeasement. It is attributed to Juvenal, a Roman poet active in the late first and early second century AD — and is used commonly in cultural, particularly political, contexts.
In a political context, the phrase means to generate public approval, not by excellence in public service or public policy, but by diversion, distraction or by satisfying the most immediate or base requirements of a populace[1] — by offering a palliative: for example food (bread) or entertainment (circuses).
Today: Drugs (Prozac etc..)/High Sugar Foods, On Demand Societal Expectations & Mass Distraction (Internet/iPhones/etc...)
The Creature from Jekyll Island:
We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!
"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
Proponent of real science.
The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.
Who has received their bribe?
"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
Proponent of real science.
The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.
Most folks in Amerika have no problem and consider it a very good, can’t wait, happy bribe
Folks like us, it’s not even a bribe. It was forced down our throats as if it were medicine, except the real shot in the arm is yet to come. Figuratively, and realistically speaking.
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An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)
The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)
Everyone in my area. My not closed business is crazy busy. I made several sales and it's been a non stop stream of in person customers and phone calls all day. They are spending the handouts as fast as they get them.
My economy is stimulated. I am smart enough to know the cost down the road though.
Put out your hands, another bribe is coming...
"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
Proponent of real science.
The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.
Nobody is going to pay off 3.5 TRILLION dollars in debt. They estimate that by 2021 debt will be 130% of our GDP.
https://www.quicktransportsolutions....status-at-risk
FED will keep rates at zero to infinity.
Last edited by Pauls' Revere; 08-01-2020 at 03:43 PM.
The Creature from Jekyll Island:
We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!
I expect more brides will be coming until the end of the year.
"Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."
Calvin Coolidge
You want a bigger bribe? Trump wants to give you one!
"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
Proponent of real science.
The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.
There is no reason to suppose that unfettered markets take years to reprice and reallocate resources.
These markets are not unfettered, of course, but they could be, as an alternative to continuing down this path of zombification.
We at the Marriner Eccles building are most pleased to confirm, after decades of research, and much to the dismay of Schiffites, that:
(a) if people are given money,
then (b) they will in fact have more money!
...or perhaps the question was never whether they could "reflate," but whether they should?
There was no good solution. If you did nothing all the highly levered energy companies and hospitality companies would have gone bust. And that would have dragged a lot of other companies with it.
If you take the action the government did you reward terrible behavior. Airlines and cruise ships and casinos didn't set aside money for a rainy day. There is a big moral hazard problem. And there are probably a lot of marginal zombie companies that shouldn't exist.
The first option was the least bad option because capitalism would get blamed for 20% unemployment and bread lines. FDR would never have been able to enact the New Deal policies had the Federal Reserve backstopped banks in the 30s.
Question:
Did fedgov and numerous states , using the covid19 HOAX to force 40,000,000 millions Americans into unemployment; thousands of businesses into bankruptcy and millions into unconstitutional and unnecessary lockdowns.
That is a constitutional tort and is time to pay up.
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Last edited by Contumacious; 12-23-2020 at 10:48 PM.
Let's begin by recalling that none of this would have happened in the first place but for preceding state intervention, which should give us pause as to the consequences of this new intervention. That said, a liquidationist policy would have been perfectly workable provided that the impediments to swift reallocation of resources were (swiftly) eliminated. From a technical point of view, this is trivially easy. But, given the political reality, which makes that kind of reform impossible, you're probably right that what they've done, more or less, was the least bad option. Liquidation in this environment, with all the obstacles on the creative side of creative destruction, would probably have resulted in a straight up communist revolution. Thing is, Krug, that's where this is going anyway, if - at some point - the market approach is not adopted.
It's already been paid with the first relief bill. People laid off got a check plus unemployment benefits. 40 million people are not unemployed now. The unemployment rate has dropped to 6%. There are help wanted signs everywhere.
The only people who should get compensation with this bill are business owners of gyms and other establishments forced to close.
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.DON'T TAX ME BRO!!!
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"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)
Back on topic...
"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
Proponent of real science.
The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.
Meanwhile down at Goldman Sachs...
"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
Proponent of real science.
The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.
.
.DON'T TAX ME BRO!!!
.
.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)
States, counties and cities were responsible for shutdown losses. This Federal payout is not targeted at those who have experienced shutdown losses. And just about everyone calls it stimulus. It’s dropping money from helicopters, with the new twist being that the helicopter is not hovering over Wall St. the entire time. It’s also a step towards UBI.
"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
Proponent of real science.
The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.
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