Trump unveils Middle East peace plan with two-state solution

[JohnCifelli1]

Your forgetting this always opens when you open the pandora box nationalist Albanians want a greater Albania, the Kurds want their own state and catalonia comes to mind....

May as well add Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Petoria to that list.

[Ender]

My concern with giving the Palestinians their own country is it sets a bad precedent. If people can just bitch & moan enough and get their own country, we'll end up with hundreds of thousands of new countries. It would just be anarchy, and noone wants that.

Like "Israel" did?

[donnay]

"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."
~ Matthew 5:9

[TheCount]

And this deal will help end it.

By explicitly forbidding Palestine from having a military?

And by explicitly giving Israel military control and responsibility for the "security" of the "sovereign" Palestine?


That's going to stop the things that @AngryCanadian mentioned?

[TheCount]

... as well as the formal recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital & home to the US embassy.

Trump's plan gives 100% of Jerusalem to Israel.

[TheTexan]

Like "Israel" did?

Wow. Anti-semitism. Banned.

[Swordsmyth]

Trump's plan gives 100% of Jerusalem to Israel.

Another long accomplished fact.

But it also gives Palestine a capital in parts of East Jerusalem.

[Todd]

What kind of $#@!ery is this Fox news garbage.

Here's the counterpoint.

The Netanyahu/Trump plan calls for new Israeli borders that intrude on Palestinian territory. The Palestinian “state” envisioned includes no military force and the Israeli military would control and patrol the Palestinian border with Jordan. In the deal Trump is trying to buy off the Palestinians’ aspiration for independence for $50 billion.

If the Israeli cabinet approves Netanyahu’s first annexation proposal, which will include the Jordan valley, Palestinians living in annexed territories would come under direct Israeli rule but, under the plan, would not be allowed to vote in Israeli elections. That is the very definition of apartheid.

[Todd]

I can't take credit for this, but it's a great take from the comments on this story at AW.

Another "Trump success", then. LOL Dead on arrival - like his "maximum pressure" campaign against Iran.

And I suppose Trump's supporters will present this as an example of "Trump's genius" at doing...whatever.

I suppose one could argue that demonstrating that the bogus "two-state solution" - which was never viable even decades ago - is totally dead is a "win" for the Palestinians. But it should be obvious that Trump isn't smart enough - let alone enough of a critic of Israel - to be a serious proponent of a bi-national state. And the Palestinians will get nothing real from that "win".

So more of the same from the US. Total support for Israel, total lose for Palestinians. Nothing will change on the ground - except that once the US decides the Palestinian's "last chance" has been rejected, it will green light Israel to go full speed ahead on its slow motion ethnic cleansing.

Which, of course, was always the real purpose of Trump's "deal." More proof that Trump is both an ignoramus and a deliberate liar as to his intentions.

Article:

Trump Presents Offer the Palestinians Can’t Refuse

Warns the plan is the Palestinians' 'last chance'

Jason Ditz

Flanked by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, President Trump unveiled his long anticipated peace plan, in a public event seemingly more designed to distract from Netanyahu’s indictment than to actually offer anything of substance.

A lot of terms of the plan have been long-rumored, and effectively remain so even after the presentation, as there was a conspicuous lack of specificity, and of any concrete details, beyond Trump insisting this is the Palestinians’ “last chance.“

But their last chance for what? That’s less clear. Trump talked of Palestinian statehood, but doing so next to Netanyahu, who repeatedly has denounced the very notion of a Palestinian state, gives that very little credibility. Moreover, reports are that the deal forbids the Palestinians from having any of the trappings of a state, including even superficial control over its own borders.

What was said Tuesday put no doubt on that interpretation, and indeed the biggest takeaway of the offer was not that the Palestinians were getting barely something, but that Trump was prepared to immediately endorse Israeli sovereignty on the annexation of all settlements, and the Jordan Valley.

Trump did suggest Palestinian territory would double, but as with everything else the Palestinians might get, this was vague. Trump even declared that Israel had for the first time accepted a map, but then proceeded to say that a committee was being formed with Israel to actually work out what the map will look like, underscoring that no map has been settled upon at all.

Further offers to the Palestinians were similarly dubious, as Trump reiterated a $50 billion US investment offer, now conditioned on accepting the plan, such as it is. Trump also promised a four year window in which Israel would not develop any settlements in the occupied part of the West Bank that is nominally set aside for Palestinian statehood. Yet there is no apparent enforcement mechanism for this within the plan, and it is unlikely that either Trump or the Israeli government would be able to stop illegal settlements popping up across Palestine.

That both Netanyahu and his political rival Benny Gantz were able to endorse the plan underscores how little the Palestinians would really get, as anything that might conceivably end in a proper Palestinian state would be wildly unpopular on the Israeli right, and a non-starter during Israel’s constant elections.

This assumption of Palestinian rejection is likely a big part of Israeli acceptance, as it would allow them to spin themselves as the pro-peace ones, and the Palestinians as the real problem.

The Ambassadors of Oman, Bahrain, and the United Arab Emirates were in attendance at the unveiling, which suggests at least some nominal support within the Arab world. This is being emphasized, and presented as some support by “the other side,” even though no Palestinians were there, nor is it clear if any Palestinians were even invited.

[Todd]

"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."
~ Matthew 5:9

I doubt Jesus was talking about deals that would make Vito Corleone proud. The Mafia believed they were being generous and peaceful too when they gave you an offer too good to refuse.

[donnay]

I doubt Jesus was talking about deals that would make Vito Corleone proud. The Mafia believed they were being generous and peaceful too when they gave you an offer too good to refuse.

Anyone who is trying to bring peace to an unstable region is to be applauded. Jesus also taught us that we will know them by their fruit.

[Origanalist]

Lol

[TheCount]

Another long accomplished fact.

So much for your supposed concern about sovereignty and foreign invaders.

[Swordsmyth]

So much for your supposed concern about sovereignty and foreign invaders.

It's none of our business.
Or do you want us to play world police?

[Zippyjuan]

Trump will have a good reason to withdraw from the region and the Neocons can't say he is abandoning "our greatest ally".

The withdrawl is underway. We will be out of Syria in 30 days- Trump: December, 2018.

[Zippyjuan]

It's none of our business.
Or do you want us to play world police?

Do you think Trump should have stayed out of it then?

[Swordsmyth]

Do you think Trump should have stayed out of it then?

There is no reason he shouldn't propose a peace plan.

He should not do anything to enforce it though.

[Zippyjuan]

There is no reason he shouldn't propose a peace plan.

He should not do anything to enforce it though.

An agreement without any enforcement is not a good agreement. There is no incentive to follow it.

[Swordsmyth]

An agreement without any enforcement is not a good agreement. There is no incentive to follow it.

There can be enforcement.
It just shouldn't come from us.

[Zippyjuan]

There can be enforcement.
It just shouldn't come from us.

It would have been nice to talk with the Palestinians to see what they may like in an agreement. Otherwise it is just foreigners imposing it on them.

[Swordsmyth]

It would have been nice to talk with the Palestinians to see what they may like in an agreement. Otherwise it is just foreigners imposing it on them.

It would have been nice if they had agreed to talk instead of refusing to.
They can talk about it now but they still refuse to talk.

Negotiations generally start with one side presenting a plan to the other side.

[TomtheTinker]

It's none of our business.
Or do you want us to play world police?

If it's none of our business, how come we are part of the "negotiations" and not Palestine?

[Origanalist]

If it's none of our business, how come we are part of the "negotiations" and not Palestine?

4D chess.

[Swordsmyth]

If it's none of our business, how come we are part of the "negotiations" and not Palestine?

4D chess.

There is no reason we shouldn't propose a peace plan, that is nothing like trying to force either side to do some particular thing.
The Palestinians could have been part of the creation of the plan but they refused, they can negotiate to change the plan but they refuse.
As outsiders we must deal with the facts on the ground and what Israel is willing to do when proposing a plan.

[Origanalist]

There is no reason we shouldn't propose a peace plan, that is nothing like trying to force either side to do some particular thing.
The Palestinians could have been part of the creation of the plan but they refused, they can negotiate to change the plan but they refuse.
As outsiders we must deal with the facts on the ground and what Israel is willing to do when proposing a plan.

Why? Why must we deal with that? Because we're Israel's bitch thats why. And Trump delivering a ultimatum on such vague terms only proves the point.

[Swordsmyth]

Why? Why must we deal with that? Because we're Israel's bitch thats why. And Trump delivering a ultimatum on such vague terms only proves the point.

Unless you want us to use force to give the Palestinians what they want then we have to deal with the facts on the ground and what Israel is willing to do when proposing a plan.

It's called reality, it's just like the fact that we have to deal with that the CCP rules China.

[Zippyjuan]

It would have been nice if they had agreed to talk instead of refusing to.
They can talk about it now but they still refuse to talk.

Negotiations generally start with one side presenting a plan to the other side.

Negotiations generally start with the two parties who wish to make an agreement. Just talking to one side is not a negotiation.

[Swordsmyth]

Negotiations generally start with the two parties who wish to make an agreement. Just talking to one side is not a negotiation.

We are talking to them.
They refuse to talk back.

[TomtheTinker]

We are talking to them.
They refuse to talk back.

Again, if it's nbone of our business, why are we talking?

[Zippyjuan]

We are talking to them.
They refuse to talk back.

Then you are having a monologue not a dialogue and are not negotiating. You can't have any deal without both parties agreeing. The timing seems to be a distraction from Netanyahu's corruption case. It was originally supposed to be announced last September.

Trump closed the US diplomatic mission to Palestine in 2018. The Palestinians were talking up until that point. He cut off the communications.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...dle-east-peace

TRUMP SHUTTERS THE PALESTINIAN DIPLOMATIC MISSION—AND MIDDLE EAST PEACE

By Robin Wright

September 11, 2018

During the first ten months of the Trump Administration, the top Palestinian diplomat in Washington, Husam Zomlot, was summoned to the White House every two or three days, he told me. He spent many hours with Jared Kushner, the President’s son-in-law and lead peace negotiator, working on Trump’s ambitious plan to end the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. For the Palestine Liberation Organization’s mission in Washington—it’s not technically an embassy, since it does not represent a state—it was the highest-profile engagement with American officials since the office opened, in 1994. In conversations we had during those first months, Zomlot was ebulliently optimistic, despite seven decades of hostilities, about achieving peace.

No longer. In the third blow this year to the peace process—and the one that may well doom it—the Trump Administration on Monday ordered the P.L.O. to shutter its diplomatic mission in Washington, a dark red-brick building on the edge of the trendy Georgetown neighborhood. The move will eliminate a communication channel—diplomatically and physically—that has been at the heart of the peace process under four Administrations. It’s basically a punishment. The State Department cited the Palestinian failure to “advance the start of direct and meaningful negotiations with Israel” as the reason for the closure. It also accused P.L.O. leaders of condemning “a U.S. peace plan they have not yet seen” and said that they “refused to engage with the U.S. government with respect to peace efforts and otherwise.”

Determining blame for the undermining of one of the President’s most ambitious foreign-policy goals is, at the least, a chicken-and-egg argument. Despite the State Department’s claims, the Administration is not blameless. In December, 2017, following through on a campaign promise, Trump recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital—even though the Palestinians have claimed part of the city as their capital, too—which led the Palestinian Authority to cut off diplomatic talks. The formal opening of the U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem, in May, led the Palestinian Authority to recall Zomlot from Washington.

In the past month, the Administration has also severed aid—directly and through international organizations—that has an impact on millions of Palestinian lives. It cut off some two hundred million dollars to bilateral aid projects—for economic development, democratic reforms, health care, education, security, and humanitarian issues—to Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. It also stopped providing three hundred million dollars in U.S. aid to the U.N. agency that supports 5.4 million Palestinian refugees scattered across the Middle East, calling the program “irredeemably flawed.” The U.S. accounted for nearly a third of the agency’s budget.

The accumulated impact of these moves may kill off a peace process that, last year, Trump bragged was “not as difficult as people have thought.”

The Palestinians responded to the closure of their mission to Washington with outrage. I reached Zomlot by phone on Monday, in Ramallah, the West Bank capital, in between crisis meetings with the Palestinian leadership. He had been notified of the closure in a telephone call from the State Department, followed by a formal letter. “The peace process as we knew it has definitely just received a lethal bullet to its heart,” he told me. “This Administration is using bullying as a tactic and trying to blackmail us.” He called the U.S. announcement “a reckless act in blind execution of Israel’s wish list that started with Jerusalem.”

Zomlot told me that the Palestinians—under growing pressure from Trump to comply with whatever Kushner’s still-secret plan entails—are turning to the international community to fill the vacuum. “We are standing firm,” he said. A statement issued on Monday by the P.L.O. mission in Washington, possibly its last, said, “While today is a dark day for peace in the Middle East, for multilateralism, and the integrity of the international political and legal system, we will continue our struggle to pursue all possible legal and political means to achieve peace, independence, and our international enshrined rights.” The prospects, however, look grim.

More at link.