Did Jesus Ever Instruct us to Attend Church?

[fr33]

Please post the scripture where Jesus told us to go to church at all, and/or to go weekly.

[heavenlyboy34]

Google Ekklesia.
One of many good explanations:

The Church, the ekklesiaThe word 'church' in the New Testamentis translated from the Greek word 'ekklesia' which comes from two words 'ek' meaning 'out' and 'kaleo' meaning to 'call.' An ekklesiaor 'calling out' was not just an assembly. The words agora and paneguris as well as heorte, koinon, thiasos, sunagoge and sunago can all mean an assembly. The word ekklesia was a political term, not a religious term. Jesus was the King and the Bible used the term ekklesiafor a good reason. In classical Greek "ekklesia" meant "an assembly of citizens summoned by the crier, the legislative assembly."¹In Israel the the government assembly, like that of the early Roman Senate, had no power to make law. They were originally composed of the elders of each family group through a network of electors which chose titular representatives. By the time of Christ both the Senate of Rome and the Sanhedrin of Judea had become bodies of legislative rulers exercising authority over the people. They had become a corporate body of "lawmakers" ruling the people through vast bureaucratic systems under a central ruling office of executive power.Since, the authority of the State in Israel was originally in the hands of the elders of each family the people did not usually gather together to overthrow the corruption of government, since the people had learned to govern themselves. The heads of every household were the princes of Israel. The heads of each family group, which was a true government of the people, for the people, and by the people, under the God of Heaven were free as long as they remained faithful to God's law.There was, at first, no King in Israel and the original Sanhedrin mentioned in Numbers 11:16 was to stand as a sort of overseer of truthserving the will of God by serving the congregation of the people in righteousness. They were truly titular leaders who served the public and God under the foundational laws of the government, the Ten Commandments. But eventually the voice of the people sought a ruler who could exercise authority and who appointed officers over the people from the top down making new laws of control and oppression. The need for an ekklesia steadily grew again as the people and their governments became more corrupt.When the Greek city states found their governments had become too corrupt and oppressive, they would call for an ekklesia, an assembly outside the civil authority of the city. If enough people came out and refused to accept the existing centralized civil authority, that government would collapse. Non participation has been a successful and peaceful means to free mankind from oppressive civil authority throughout history.Like the walk out strikes instituted by Gandhi in hope of freeing his people from oppression of colonization, the act of calling the people out could be a very effective method of obtaining freedom through nonviolence. Gandhi did not only encourage worker strikes, but also practical methods to free society from the need of the corporate benefits and its resulting oppressive civil state. Moses had done the same in Egypt when he taught the people how to live without the exercising authority and benefits of the Pharaoh while still maintaining a viable, cohesive and productive society.Jesus' procession into Jerusalem was a call for the people to stand against a corrupt oppressive government by offering them a legitimate government that operated differently than Herod the Great. John the Baptist had preached the kingdom of heaven at hand,² which was nothing less than a government operating by freewill offerings,³ voluntary charitable participation⁴ and the perfect law of liberty.⁵ Jesus preached the same method of self government and proclaimed that right for all who would remain faithful to Him. It was a powerful and non violent movement of the people, by the people, and for the people to change the course of history by changing the hearts and minds of men, by altering their relationship with governments of the gentiles with their leaders who called themselves benefactors but who exercised authority.⁶The use of the word Church was a poor choice in place of the Greek ekklesia but what men often mean unto evil God turns to good. That word Church has its origin in the meaning of lordship which may be accurate from a certain point of view.The ekklesia or Church was founded and established by Jesus Christ, Yahshua, almost 2000 years ago. It was a government established by the anointed King and appointed to His "little flock" to look after His Kingdom. Jesus was the rightful king, the highest son of David, proclaimed by many of the people as the Anointed. The trial before the Sanhedrin was an attempt to impeach Him and therefore end His appointed government. The Pharisees had given the ultimate right to choose who should be king of God's kingdom to the Romans back in the days of Pompey.^[8]

Luke 22:29 "And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;"Jesus was recognized as the king by the existing world government when Pontius Pilate nailed his official proclamation of Christ's kingdom to the cross, which was sealed for all time in the blood of an innocent man. Jesus and His little flock of followers, the called out [ekklesia], were persecuted by the apostate church of that day who abandoned the house of David proclaiming they had no king but Caesar. ^[9]

Hide X | kingdom.php

At Pentecost thousands of Jews, citizens of Judea, and others were baptized into that government by the appointed followers of the proclaimed and recognized king. All who became members of that kingdom of Heaven were cast out⁷ of the existing system of benefits offered through the Corban of the Pharisees and began to live a new life according to the precepts of God's government, by faith, hope and charity, and the perfect law of liberty.God is the same, man is the same, sin is the same. Abraham was called out and eventually brought out many souls. Moses was called back to Egypt, assisted the people through the famines, teaching them the ways of God. He and Israel were cast out of Egypt but had to learn the ways of liberty under God. The people returned to sin with their golden calf and the Levites were called out to become thechurch in the wilderness. ^[10]

Are we turning away from God's ways and back to the sin of Cain?
The good news of the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth has been shared with the world. His ekklesia was persecuted. Its chief executive officer is the Holy Spirit, its King is Jesus and its Ruling Judge is YHWH, God the Father. YaHWeH has given all power and authority to Jesus, Yahshua, who in turn has sent us the Holy Spirit to comfort us in our journey toward the kingdom of God.Salvation is returning to the Character of the Father like the Son. It is self-sacrifice, service and obedience that we must get right.What is not the CHURCH?
There are a lot of things the Church is not but at least: It is not established by anyone but Jesus. It is not to hold lordship of one over the other. It is not to go under the authority of others nor lead men into bondage where some men will rule over mankind. It is not to scatter the flock but bring them together in charity and love. It is to serve the people so that they do not have to apply or pray to other fathers of the earth for gifts, gratuities and benefits that would bring the people back into the bondage of Egypt and make the word of God to non effect. The Church is servants of Christ to preach the kingdom, feed His flock under the perfect law of liberty.
Who can define His Holy Church?

CHURCH "In its most general sense, the religious society founded and established by Jesus Christ, to receive, preserve, and propagate his doctrines and ordinances.""A body or community of Christians, united under one form of government by the profession of one faith, and the observance of the same rituals and ceremonies." Black's Law Dictionary 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th eds.

How do we get into this government of Jesus Christ, this kingdom of Heaven on Earth? Must we die to get into the Kingdom of Heaven?

He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err. (Mark 12:27)

What and where is the key to the Kingdom of Heaven?

"And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my ekklesia (make my coming out); and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." (Matthew 16:17-19)

What is the form of His government? How does Heaven run its government, its ekklesia, here on earth?

"But Jesus called them [unto him], and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many." (Matthew 20:25-28)

Are you in a government which exercises dominion over you? If you are, then you are not in a government established by Jesus the Christ and the form of your government is not Christian.Let every man remain subject to his superior authority; but should you go under authority in exchange for benefits and gratuities?

"All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body [is] not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body. And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power. Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make [them] the members of an harlot? God forbid." (1 Corinthians 6:12-14)

Have you sold the sweat of your brow and gone under the authority and power of another?Have you sold your land in exchange for gifts and benefits?

"Behold, we [are] servants this day, and [for] the land that thou gavest unto our fathers to eat the fruit thereof and the good thereof, behold, we [are] servants in it:" Nehemiah 9:36

And because of all this we make a sure covenant, and write it; and our princes, Levites, and priests, seal unto it. Nehemiah 9:38Have we taken the mark of the beast?"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. ..." (Revelation 22:12-18)

Also read the book of Acts and the Church Fathers.

[acptulsa]

Well, that's an impressive wall of text. And the admonition to read Acts and paid commercial messages from paid pastors is classic. But the answer remains uncamouflaged: No.

But Jesus spent quite a lot of time on Earth pointing out that the officials of the temples were full of it. And throwing out the money changers who were getting fat selling 'things acceptable to sacrifice'.

I think Matthew 6 sums it up nicely. If you want to go to church, go to church. If you want to talk to God, talk to God. For the latter purpose, your closet actually works better.

Jesus did say if you find someone knowledgable about scripture, learn from him. He didn't say to have blind faith that this person wasn't full if it, or that this person wasn't downright evil. Just to learn scripture from him.

[Ronin Truth]

"If you want to understand, what's REALLY going on, just follow the money!"

[Dr.3D]

Please post the scripture where Jesus told us to go to church at all, and/or to go weekly.

Matthew 18:20

[donnay]

Deuteronomy 5:12
12 Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded you.

Matthew 18:20
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them

Sabbath is rest. Jesus is our Sabbath.

[euphemia]

Jesus was called Rabbi. I think he was regular in his worship habits.

[erowe1]

Jesus instituted the Lord's Supper. You can read about it in 1 Corinthians 11:23-26 as well as other passages.

[TER]

Deuteronomy 5:12
12 Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded you.

Matthew 18:20
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them

Sabbath is rest. Jesus is our Sabbath.

Matthew 18:20

Jesus was called Rabbi. I think he was regular in his worship habits.

Jesus instituted the Lord's Supper. You can read about it in 1 Corinthians 11:23-26 as well as other passages.

These are instructive posts! Thank you!

The greatest worship of God is liturgical, as demonstrated in the Book of Revelation, for it is the fullness of worship, incorporating the fullness of love and doxology of the created towards the Creator.

For this reason, the Apostles and early Christians risked their lives to assemble and sing praises, glory and prayers of thanksgiving to God. In such liturgical worship, Christ was present amongst them and the Holy Spirit active within them, and though they stood praying with feet on the earth, their souls partook within the eternal Kingdom of God.

Christ commanded His followers to be a Church, united by faith and love, and sharing in faith and love, He enters into their hearts and sups with them and they be filled with the Holy Spirit of God.

We become a Church when we come together as members of His Body, in divine communion, partaking of the divine nature, in unity of faith and love, and becoming one with God and creation, through His deifying Body and Blood which He has given for the life of the world.

We don't go to Church. We become Church. We become members of His Body and ontologically transformed by His grace. We become fruitful branches grafted unto Christ Who is the Vine. This is the mystery of salvation and the fulfillment of Christ's prayer to His Father, that we may all be one, in relational communion and union with God and those of God. First reborn by water and Spirit, and after having 'put on Christ', raised up with Him also in divine resurrection through the Holy Spirit. So that becoming sons and daughters, we may share in the divine eternal life which God has given to those who love Him and those with whom He loves.

[fisharmor]

Weekly? That is a really recent idea.
The sad fact is that modern Christians have dialed it back to weekly.
A thriving church has services daily. Monasteries have multiple per day. Those monasteries aren't having special services. They're just doing all of them.

[heavenlyboy34]

Well, that's an impressive wall of text. And the admonition to read Acts and paid commercial messages from paid pastors is classic.

There's nothing about paid pastors in my post.

But the answer remains uncamouflaged: No.

But Jesus spent quite a lot of time on Earth pointing out that the officials of the temples were full of it. And throwing out the money changers who were getting fat selling 'things acceptable to sacrifice'.

I think Matthew 6 sums it up nicely. If you want to go to church, go to church. If you want to talk to God, talk to God. For the latter purpose, your closet actually works better.

Jesus did say if you find someone knowledgable about scripture, learn from him. He didn't say to have blind faith that this person wasn't full if it, or that this person wasn't downright evil. Just to learn scripture from him.

Depends on how you parse the Greek.

[heavenlyboy34]

Jesus was called Rabbi. I think he was regular in his worship habits.

Not by his disciples, though. At the last supper only Judas uses the title "Rabbi". See Matthew 26.

[heavenlyboy34]

Jesus instituted the Lord's Supper. You can read about it in 1 Corinthians 11:23-26 as well as other passages.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to erowe1 again.

:/ Someone +rep my brother erowe, plz.

[TER]

Not by his disciples, though. At the last supper only Judas uses the title "Rabbi". See Matthew 26.

Hi HB!

The term "Rabbi" was a title given to those who were held to be teachers of the Law. It is very reasonable to assume that the disciples called Him by such a title, especially early in His ministry, even though it is not quoted in the Gospels. Whatever the case, it became clear to all of them by the time of the Last Supper, that He was more than a "Rabbi", but the Son of God (except in the case of Judas as you mention above, which is why the Evangelist Matthew is sure to make this point).

[heavenlyboy34]

Hi HB!

The term "Rabbi" was a title given to those who were held to be teachers of the Law. It is very reasonable to assume that the disciples called Him by such a title, especially early in His ministry, even though it is not quoted in the Gospels. Whatever the case, it became clear to all of them by the time of the Last Supper, that He was more than a "Rabbi", but the Son of God (except in the case of Judas as you mention above, which is why the Evangelist Matthew is sure to make this point).

Thanks! I can't read Greek, so I didn't know. :/

[fr33]

Thanks everyone. These are interesting to read.

[heavenlyboy34]

Well, that's an impressive wall of text. And the admonition to read Acts and paid commercial messages from paid pastors is classic. But the answer remains uncamouflaged: No.

But Jesus spent quite a lot of time on Earth pointing out that the officials of the temples were full of it. And throwing out the money changers who were getting fat selling 'things acceptable to sacrifice'.

I think Matthew 6 sums it up nicely. If you want to go to church, go to church. If you want to talk to God, talk to God. For the latter purpose, your closet actually works better.

Jesus did say if you find someone knowledgable about scripture, learn from him. He didn't say to have blind faith that this person wasn't full if it, or that this person wasn't downright evil. Just to learn scripture from him.

It seems like almost every time you post you do so with loads of snark and sarcasm. Is that an Okie thing?

[TER]

All the members should live full prayerful lives, 'unceasingly praying' to God and having Him always before them. Of course, not all have been called to live the angelic monastic life, but all have been called to pray.

While the coming together of the baptized members on the Lord's Day for liturgical worship and communing of the Lord's Supper has been fixed since the days of the Apostles, there have indeed been liturgical developments since that time, according to the freedom of the members to openly live out their faith, as well as according to the heights of beauty imagined by men.

Through time, there have been varying frequencies of worship assemblies and liturgical services, on account of regional traditions and piety, as well as due to sociopolitical pressures and circumstances. For example, Christians living in Rome during the persecution by Diocletian had to settle on coming together infrequently and secretly underground in the catacombs in order to partake together of the Divine Eucharist. This is different from the grandiose celebratory doxology and supplicatory services given to God in the great Hagia Sophia centuries later, when Christians did not need to fear for their lives simply for glorifying Christ.

By the end of the third century, the primitive liturgical forms which centered around the Holy Eucharist on the Lord's Day had a long and well established history within the worship calendar of the Church, and was both apostolic in nature and practice.

As the Church matured and grew, and the numbers of Martyrs and Saints with it, (in other words, as the great instances of the Holy Spirit working within creation manifested), so too did the number of additional feasts and services which became part of the Christian life and worship towards God. So too did the pomp and beauty of the worship grow in those places where Christians could freely do so.

Another formative source for liturgical piety and structure came from the rise of monasticism. With the abating of overt persecutions against the baptized faithful after the Edict of Milan, monasticism flourished as men full of zeal and love for God sought out what has been called 'white martyrdom', by renouncing the temporal distractions in the world and detaching from material possessions and their own selfish will, in order to seek closer and deeper communion with God. These Saints, which included the Desert Fathers, came to describe and diagnose (through experiential knowledge) the threefold way of purification, illumination, and theosis.

Through these steps toward divine ascent, great and holy men and women were filled with the Holy Spirit and their holy lives full of miracles and gifts of the Holy Spirit bear witness to this fact. So too, these living temples of the Holy Spirit and God-bearing Saints witnessed to Christ's continued and immanent incarnational divine presence within creation. They bore living testimony of Christ's promise that He would be with the Church always, even unto the end of the world.

Yet even in the hermetical life of continuous prayer and extreme solitude away from others, these monastics would at times come together (some more frequently then others) in order to worship as a Church in Divine Liturgy and share of the Common Cup of Salvation, which is the Holy Eucharist. For even though they gave their lives to find God undistracted and unencumbered by the world, they understood that the life in the Kingdom of Heaven was not one of solitude, but rather a life in communal worship and unity with God and His creation.

Anyway, I've veered away from the topic and have babbled enough. Good night and God bless.

[Jamesiv1]

Congregational worship is awesome, and humans have been doing it since like, forever - whether it's singing hymns on Sunday morning or doing peyote in a prayer circle.

Having a communal spiritual experience with people one loves and cares about is spiritually fulfilling and socially empowering.

But yeah... the way the modern West practices Christianity is pretty lame - i.e. sleep thru a 45-minute service one day a week and hurry home to watch the football game.

Then spend the rest of the week eating $#@! food, buying plastic stuff and earning tax payments.

Pretty dumb.

[Ronin Truth]

Congregational worship is awesome, and humans have been doing it since like, forever - whether it's singing hymns on Sunday morning or doing peyote in a prayer circle.

Having a communal spiritual experience with people one loves and cares about is spiritually fulfilling and socially empowering.

But yeah... the way the modern West practices Christianity is pretty lame - i.e. sleep thru a 45-minute service one day a week and hurry home to watch the football game.

Then spend the rest of the week eating $#@! food, buying plastic stuff and earning tax payments.

Pretty dumb.

+Rep

Well I'm not really too sure what more could be reasonably expected from a bazillion, or so, Paulinists AKA "Christians"(so called).

[erowe1]

But the answer remains uncamouflaged: No.

Source?

[erowe1]

Then spend the rest of the week eating $#@! food, buying plastic stuff and earning tax payments.

How did this line fit into your reasoning, or this thread at all?

[Jamesiv1]

How did this line fit into your reasoning, or this thread at all?

It's just a comment on the general state of affairs in the West regarding church, spirituality and cultural priorities.

[erowe1]

It's just a comment on the general state of affairs in the West regarding church, spirituality and cultural priorities.

What's the connection between spirituality and buying stuff made out of plastic?

[erowe1]

Jesus was called Rabbi. I think he was regular in his worship habits.

Not by his disciples, though. At the last supper only Judas uses the title "Rabbi". See Matthew 26.

A quick search shows that this isn't true.
https://www.biblegateway.com/quickse...egin=47&end=73

[Jamesiv1]

What's the connection between spirituality and buying stuff made out of plastic?

There is no connection - that's the point.

[erowe1]

There is no connection - that's the point.

Could you spell out whatever that point is more explicitly? It still seems like a non sequitur.

Is it that if these people were really followers of Jesus and cared about spiritual things they would never buy stuff made out of plastic?

[otherone]

Could you spell out whatever that point is more explicitly? It still seems like a non sequitur.

Is it that if these people were really followers of Jesus and cared about spiritual things they would never buy stuff made out of plastic?

Do you actually care what his point is?

[erowe1]

Do you actually care what his point is?

Not on its own. But I care about the line of reasoning he has that leads to it.

[otherone]

Not on its own. But I care about the line of reasoning he has that leads to it.

"Plastic" in this context, is a synonym for "fake"....as in "fake worship" and "fake products". It alludes to a shallow society disconnected from authenticity.