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Thread: California Begs Residents To Change Their EV Charging routines

  1. #1

    Exclamation California Begs Residents To Change Their EV Charging routines

    With Its Power Grid On The Verge Of Failure, California Begs Residents To Change Their EV Charging Routines

    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/ca...ous-power-grid

    by Tyler Durden
    Tuesday, Jun 22, 2021 - 05:05 PM

    It appears as though California's plans to become an environmental and socialist utopia are running face first into reality.

    The latest dose of reality came this week when the state, facing triple digit temperatures, began to "fret" about pressure on the state's power grid as a result of everybody charging their electric vehicles all at once.

    The state's power grid operators have been telling residents to "relieve pressure" from the grid by charging their EVs at off-peak hours, Newsweek wrote.

    Twice last week the California Independent System Operator (ISO) told residents to conserve energy voluntarily, including asking to charge their EVs at certain off-peak times. The ISO also suggested "avoiding use of large appliances and turning off extra lights," the report says.

    pic.twitter.com/injeLey8hW
    — California ISO (@California_ISO) June 18, 2021

    The state's Flex Alert Twitter account posted on June 18: "Now is the perfect time to do a load of laundry. Remember to use major appliances, charge cars and devices before #FlexAlert begins at 6 p.m. today."

    Despite the fact that the state seems hell bent on converting all of its residents to EVs, Patty Monahan, the lead commissioner on transportation at the California Energy Commission, said that when residents choose to charge their vehicles will be important "in keeping the power grid balanced".

    "Charging behaviors matter when it comes to California grid goals," she said. "By incentivizing, primarily through rates, charging behaviors that capitalize on when renewable energy is being generated—we basically have a win for the grid, and we have a win for the drivers in terms of reduced rates. Rates are a climate strategy, and California plans on using rates to help drive the charging behaviors that are going to help the state electrify transportation while cutting carbon from the grid and saving ratepayers and drivers money."

    Matthew Moniot, a researcher with the National Renewable Energy Laboratory said that most drivers who charge at night "will have to change" their routines: "If you look at aggregate load across the grid, it tends to spike in the evening hours whenever people come home." He called it a "tricky problem" that relies on "how much can we move what's currently overnight charging to be during the daytime hours, when generation may be more excessive."
    According to government's own numbers, over half a MILLION people are dead, just in the US alone, because of a man made virus designed to be even more deadly than what would be found in nature, released, possibly on purpose, from a Chinese lab, a virus that that was created from funding and prior research given to the Chinese scientists by our own government because we, in fit of sanity, pulled the plug on funding here.



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    With Its Power Grid On The Verge Of Failure, California Begs Residents To Change Their EV Charging Routines

    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/ca...ous-power-grid

    by Tyler Durden
    Tuesday, Jun 22, 2021 - 05:05 PM

    It appears as though California's plans to become an environmental and socialist utopia are running face first into reality.

    The latest dose of reality came this week when the state, facing triple digit temperatures, began to "fret" about pressure on the state's power grid as a result of everybody charging their electric vehicles all at once.

    The state's power grid operators have been telling residents to "relieve pressure" from the grid by charging their EVs at off-peak hours, Newsweek wrote.

    Twice last week the California Independent System Operator (ISO) told residents to conserve energy voluntarily, including asking to charge their EVs at certain off-peak times. The ISO also suggested "avoiding use of large appliances and turning off extra lights," the report says.

    pic.twitter.com/injeLey8hW
    — California ISO (@California_ISO) June 18, 2021

    The state's Flex Alert Twitter account posted on June 18: "Now is the perfect time to do a load of laundry. Remember to use major appliances, charge cars and devices before #FlexAlert begins at 6 p.m. today."

    Despite the fact that the state seems hell bent on converting all of its residents to EVs, Patty Monahan, the lead commissioner on transportation at the California Energy Commission, said that when residents choose to charge their vehicles will be important "in keeping the power grid balanced".

    "Charging behaviors matter when it comes to California grid goals," she said. "By incentivizing, primarily through rates, charging behaviors that capitalize on when renewable energy is being generated—we basically have a win for the grid, and we have a win for the drivers in terms of reduced rates. Rates are a climate strategy, and California plans on using rates to help drive the charging behaviors that are going to help the state electrify transportation while cutting carbon from the grid and saving ratepayers and drivers money."

    Matthew Moniot, a researcher with the National Renewable Energy Laboratory said that most drivers who charge at night "will have to change" their routines: "If you look at aggregate load across the grid, it tends to spike in the evening hours whenever people come home." He called it a "tricky problem" that relies on "how much can we move what's currently overnight charging to be during the daytime hours, when generation may be more excessive."
    Maybe they'll build some more coal fired power plants to compensate.....oh wait.
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  4. #3
    This is what happens when you don't allow prices to reflect supply and demand. Electric prices, just like everything else, should go up when demand increases in relation to supply. You wouldn't need to "beg" anyone to do anything - people would respond on their own to increasing prices and trim their usage.

    So simple, yet so politically unpopular.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    This is what happens when you don't allow prices to reflect supply and demand. Electric prices, just like everything else, should go up when demand increases in relation to supply. You wouldn't need to "beg" anyone to do anything - people would respond on their own to increasing prices and trim their usage.

    So simple, yet so politically unpopular.
    The way I read it, the People's Republic already charges flex-rates, or are planning to:

    "Charging behaviors matter when it comes to California grid goals," she said. "By incentivizing, primarily through rates, charging behaviors that capitalize on when renewable energy is being generated—we basically have a win for the grid, and we have a win for the drivers in terms of reduced rates. Rates are a climate strategy, and California plans on using rates to help drive the charging behaviors that are going to help the state electrify transportation while cutting carbon from the grid and saving ratepayers and drivers money."
    The problem is EVs and the fact that people are not nocturnal.

    The best EVs still require 10-12 hours of slow charging at 120V for a full charge.

    The only time most people can do that is overnight.

    When solar and wind is offline.
    According to government's own numbers, over half a MILLION people are dead, just in the US alone, because of a man made virus designed to be even more deadly than what would be found in nature, released, possibly on purpose, from a Chinese lab, a virus that that was created from funding and prior research given to the Chinese scientists by our own government because we, in fit of sanity, pulled the plug on funding here.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    This is what happens when you don't allow prices to reflect supply and demand. Electric prices, just like everything else, should go up when demand increases in relation to supply. You wouldn't need to "beg" anyone to do anything - people would respond on their own to increasing prices and trim their usage.

    So simple, yet so politically unpopular.
    And another case of a theory that doesn't work so well in practice. Obviously, this was not even possible before smart meters were installed. Now that smart meters are in place, and flexrates are in place, people still don't pay attention to differing prices or modify their behavior. You get a bill once a month, not once a minute.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    The way I read it, the People's Republic already charges flex-rates, or are planning to:
    They have screwed around with rates and plans and flex plans and default plans and green plans and opt-out plans so many times that no one knows what they have.

    The problem is EVs and the fact that people are not nocturnal.

    The best EVs still require 10-12 hours of slow charging at 120V for a full charge.

    The only time most people can do that is overnight.

    When solar and wind is offline.
    Yeah, people tend to do things all around the same time when they get home. They turn on lights, appliances, TVs, air conditioning, cook dinner, do laundry and plug in their EVs.
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  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    The way I read it, the People's Republic already charges flex-rates, or are planning to:



    The problem is EVs and the fact that people are not nocturnal.

    The best EVs still require 10-12 hours of slow charging at 120V for a full charge.

    The only time most people can do that is overnight.

    When solar and wind is offline.
    So, let me start at the beginning... Remember, this is part of my expertise...

    First, time of use rates are not necessarily dynamic - you get an on peak and an off peak rate. But you have to sign up for those. There are real time pricing rates, but those are usually reserved for BIG industrial customers and they get real time pricing data.

    Second, most level 2 chargers and the telematics in many vehicles allow you to set your charging times. So even if you plug it in after work, it won't start charging until the off-peak time. (You do run into a situation where you can trigger a second peak because all the vehicles start charging at the same time.) Many utilities will stagger their off-peak times and split them between their customers to have a few bumps like that.

    Third, some utilities and other 3rd party aggregators are able to do "managed" charging. So basically, a driver would create a setting to say they want their vehicle fully charged by 6 am. Then, the aggregator's system would stagger all of the vehicles under their contract to keep the demand as low as possible.

    Fourth, it is VERY rare that an EV would require 10-12 hours of a slow charge. If they use a level 1 charger and drive a lot of miles, you may see that, but that's a 120v outlet - that's a drop in the ocean. For level 2 charging, most vehicles "top off" each night so that they're full in the morning. You may only need an hour of charging to replenish the miles you used each day - and with a 10-16 hour window to charge, there's lots of room.

    Just want to make sure you fully understand the impacts.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    And another case of a theory that doesn't work so well in practice. Obviously, this was not even possible before smart meters were installed. Now that smart meters are in place, and flexrates are in place, people still don't pay attention to differing prices or modify their behavior. You get a bill once a month, not once a minute.
    Obviously price signals need to match the timing of delivery. That's the same with any product - and what went so horribly wrong in Texas. VERY few but the largest customers get real-time data. If you did, you don't need to make those behavior decisions yourself. You would set the prices into your car, HVAC, whatever appliances to shed load during high prices and require a manual override to change that. Industrial customers are used to this, but it hasn't made its way down to residential markets.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    This is what happens when you don't allow prices to reflect supply and demand. Electric prices, just like everything else, should go up when demand increases in relation to supply. You wouldn't need to "beg" anyone to do anything - people would respond on their own to increasing prices and trim their usage.

    So simple, yet so politically unpopular.
    I think you overestimate the average person's ability to manage their finances in that way.

    I sure as $#@! can't be arsed with knowing what price of electricity is at any given time.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!



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  11. #9
    They’re pushing EVs way too fast… the technology is not quite ready.

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    This is what happens when you don't allow prices to reflect supply and demand. Electric prices, just like everything else, should go up when demand increases in relation to supply. You wouldn't need to "beg" anyone to do anything - people would respond on their own to increasing prices and trim their usage.
    Yes, like in Texas, where people signed up for a service that allowed the electric company to remotely adjust their AC when electricity was in high demand.

    Seemed to have worked out well.


    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Obviously price signals need to match the timing of delivery.

    I've had a couple of electric plans where the price varied based on time of day. If I had an EV, I'd want some way of timing it to charge in the middle of the night... could save an insane amount of money. Unfortunately, many of them still take a while to charge...
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  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Maybe they'll build some more coal fired power plants to compensate.....oh wait.
    Upgrading the Power grids..(the ones that started the Fires)

    Turning off AC in govt buildings.. Open some windows.

    Cars draw no more than other appliances.. and some Charge Stations are Stand alone Solar. more could be.
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  14. #12


    The electric grid is the largest machine in the world. And it delivers a product to you that is invisible, extremely perishable, potentially deadly, and powers nearly everything you do - safely, at near the speed of light, and all you have to do is click a switch to request it. And yet, most people have no idea how it operates or the economic mechanisms that allow it to operate. It's like magic to most people. In fact, I often tell people I'm in the magic delivery business.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Yes, like in Texas, where people signed up for a service that allowed the electric company to remotely adjust their AC when electricity was in high demand.

    Seemed to have worked out well.
    Be honest - you have no idea what you're talking about, do you? "Electric company"?? Do you mean the generation company? The transmission company? The distribution company? The aggregator? The power marketers? The retail electric providers? Energy efficiency providers?? The ISO? Maybe if you understood where market forces were at play and where regulations got involved, you'd have a better sense of what worked and what didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    I've had a couple of electric plans where the price varied based on time of day. If I had an EV, I'd want some way of timing it to charge in the middle of the night... could save an insane amount of money. Unfortunately, many of them still take a while to charge...
    Easy to do. Most savvy EV drivers on time-varying rates already do this. You set it up once and never think about it again. Again, TOU is generally on the Gen portion of the bill and not the T&D side, but some jurisdictions are adding a TOU component to T&D. You won't save an "insane" amount of money, but enough to make it worth it. (It should be noted that off-peak charging better utilizes grid resources which provides downward pressure on rates for everyone - both gen and T&D)
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    I think you overestimate the average person's ability to manage their finances in that way.

    I sure as $#@! can't be arsed with knowing what price of electricity is at any given time.
    What other products do you buy without knowing the price? I bet your dissatisfaction extends to those areas as well. But the good thing is that you shouldn't need to know. Those on real time pricing (RTP) rates get the pricing signals sent to them and their systems are automated to accept the prices and adjust based on them on user settings. The problem is that only the big guys get those signals.

    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Upgrading the Power grids..(the ones that started the Fires)

    Turning off AC in govt buildings.. Open some windows.

    Cars draw no more than other appliances.. and some Charge Stations are Stand alone Solar. more could be.
    Everyone wants to upgrade the grid, but very few understand the economics of how the grid works. Because of that, there is constant political pressure to "control" rates. And any good economist knows that price controls are a recipe for disaster.

    I couldn't agree more that governments should be the FIRST institutions to shed load! Taxpayers are paying those utility bills, too. During peak times, when the costs on the grid are high (whether captured or not through prices), governments should have a role in mitigating the situation. Again, though, your average voter has no idea about how it works.

    As for the draw of electric vehicles... First, let's break down where the average passenger EV charges. Currently, the rough rule is 85% at home, 10% at work, and 5% at public stations. For Level 1 120v home charging, you're right - the draw is like a typical appliance - but it does stay on for awhile. Level 2 240v home charging is like a large appliance, but it takes less time to charge - generally, you just replace the miles you traveled that day. So, if you only traveled 20-25 miles today, you can replace that in about an hour during the night with most cars. Workplace and destination charging is generally Level 2, so it's the same time period. Direct Current Fast Charging (DCFC) draws MUCH higher voltage. These are those public super chargers. In the case of DCFC, the draw rate is dependent on the vehicle - how fast can a vehicle take the charge. Most can get to 80% charge from empty in 30 minutes. DCFC's are growing in size - 50kw are quickly becoming dinosaurs, most new ones are at least 150kw, many 300kw, and they are still increasing for heavier duty vehicles. The industry is heading towards 1mw charging for the big trucks. By way of comparison to solar, you'd need 4-5 acres of solar panels in strong sunlight to be able to charge the vehicle at that rate. And you'd need that level of sunlight for maybe 4-5 hours to charge the vehicle from empty. Not very practical. I suppose it's nice window dressing for the greenies, though.

    For a passenger car, you'd need about 7-10 solar panels operating in full sunlight to generate enough energy to replace the daily mileage, depending on the car. If you want to charge your car at any other time, you'll need a home battery storage system, too. Gets real expensive real quick. Not real efficient. Those Level 2 stand-alone public solar chargers you see have batteries installed. The sad truth about them is that they are really expensive and as soon as the first vehicle uses up the stored power, they're worthless.

    Hope this helps.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    What other products do you buy without knowing the price?
    A bunch of stuff. I have no idea how much an apple costs. A dollar? 10 cents? It's low enough that I don't care.

    I bet your dissatisfaction extends to those areas as well.
    Who said anything about dissatisfaction? I'm clearly satisfied with whatever fixed price I'm paying for electricity, because it's low enough where I really have no idea how much I'm paying each month because I just don't care.

    But the good thing is that you shouldn't need to know. Those on real time pricing (RTP) rates get the pricing signals sent to them and their systems are automated to accept the prices and adjust based on them on user settings. The problem is that only the big guys get those signals.
    Regardless it's not practical. My biggest electricity usage is by far AC and there is definitely no way that automation can solve that problem. Wal-marts are big enough where they can buffer the temperature over long periods of time. In Texas if you turn off your AC for any amount of time, your home will hit 100 degrees within 10 minutes.

    The only way to make it practical is to store the energy in batteries. I haven't done the math but I don't think battery cost is there at the point to make that practical for the average home.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Regardless it's not practical. My biggest electricity usage is by far AC and there is definitely no way that automation can solve that problem. Wal-marts are big enough where they can buffer the temperature over long periods of time. In Texas if you turn off your AC for any amount of time, your home will hit 100 degrees within 10 minutes..
    There's always a price. You value the AC, so you'd set that price very high. But would you spend $100/Kwh for that value?? Doubtful. Well, there's a price that you'd be willing to pay and price that you wouldn't. Same with all your neighbors and businesses. If everyone set their price (with manual overrides, of course) then the system balances itself. It's how price signals interact with supply and demand. And if the price stayed high, it would send a new signal for more gen or T&D upgrades. It would also send a signal for local battery storage. Which again, if people started to get home batteries, it would balance out the electric market to your favor.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    There's always a price. You value the AC, so you'd set that price very high. But would you spend $100/Kwh for that value?? Doubtful. Well, there's a price that you'd be willing to pay and price that you wouldn't. Same with all your neighbors and businesses. If everyone set their price (with manual overrides, of course) then the system balances itself. It's how price signals interact with supply and demand. And if the price stayed high, it would send a new signal for more gen or T&D upgrades. It would also send a signal for local battery storage. Which again, if people started to get home batteries, it would balance out the electric market to your favor.
    I don't have to worry about any of that with a fixed price.

    Let the electric company deal with the automation and bull$#@!.

    The economic result is the same.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    I don't have to worry about any of that with a fixed price.

    Let the electric company deal with the automation and bull$#@!.

    The economic result is the same.
    lol - again with "the electric company". Which company? There are all sorts of companies involved with bringing you that power. If you're in ERCOT, you probably have the best electric economic system in the world. It allows customers to choose fixed pricing or variable pricing for gen rates. That's great! The downside of fixed pricing is a slightly higher monthly fee - but it's not that much higher, so it's manageable. The really bad side of fixed pricing in the retail market is that there's a discrepancy between the retail and wholesale markets, and when that discrepancy gets real high, the wholesale provider has a strong incentive to stop the power flow. When the market flips like that, and wholesale is so much more than retail, they lose money with every kWh sold. So, if they can trigger an outage, they get a huge benefit.

    The downside of variable rates - especially, RTP rates - is that you need the signals real-time. Otherwise, you get stuck with these huge bills because you didn't know you needed to adjust until it was too late.

    But make sure you understand this point as well...
    “The nearer you can bring your average to the maximum load, the closer you approximate the most economical condition of production and the lower you can afford to sell your current” Samuel Insull
    Meaning that if people start using more electric at off-peak times, it lowers the costs to serve everyone and will lower your bills.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    the wholesale provider has a strong incentive to stop the power flow.
    Apparently not that strong of an incentive. My power did not go down even 1 time during the Great Freezening of 2021
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Apparently not that strong of an incentive. My power did not go down even 1 time during the Great Freezening of 2021
    Well, it's illegal. But that doesn't always stop them. There are ways to trigger an outage without it looking like you did it on purpose.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  22. #19
    If it was not for artificial scarcity caused by diminished supply due to restrictions imposed by Marxist environmentalist policies, none of this would needed.

    Electricity would be cheap to generate and transmit, and an affordable "one price fits all" for residential electric service would be the norm.

    Like internet service.
    According to government's own numbers, over half a MILLION people are dead, just in the US alone, because of a man made virus designed to be even more deadly than what would be found in nature, released, possibly on purpose, from a Chinese lab, a virus that that was created from funding and prior research given to the Chinese scientists by our own government because we, in fit of sanity, pulled the plug on funding here.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Meaning that if people start using more electric at off-peak times, it lowers the costs to serve everyone and will lower your bills.
    I look at it from the reverse direction.

    The more I can hog energy during peak hours, the more incentive the power company has to innovate on power storage & alternate sources of energy.

    By hogging energy during peak hours, I'm promoting green energy and literally saving the world.

    People like me are why green energy is even needed, and why battery technology is advancing, and why we will eventually become an interplanetary species.

    If we did things your way, technology would stagnate and we would revert to throwing rocks from caves. Is that your end game?
    Last edited by TheTexan; 06-24-2021 at 10:24 AM.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    I look at it from the reverse direction.

    The more I can hog energy during peak hours, the more incentive the power company has to innovate on power storage & alternate sources of energy.

    By hogging energy during peak hours, I'm promoting green energy and literally saving the world.

    People like me are why green energy is even needed, and why battery technology is advancing, and why we will eventually become an interplanetary species.

    If we did things your way, technology would stagnate and we would revert to throwing rocks from caves. Is that your end game?


    I'm an economist, first and foremost. I like to fully utilize resources for the cheapest cost. But, my way allows the price to fluctuate unfettered with supply and demand. And that drives technological advances. Because when there's a big differential between the low valleys and high peaks, not only do you get a savings from storage, you can actually make a profit. Then, you can sit around all day with a PBR and the TV clicker and your battery will be supplying the pizza money.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    If it was not for artificial scarcity caused by diminished supply due to restrictions imposed by Marxist environmentalist policies, none of this would needed.

    Electricity would be cheap to generate and transmit, and an affordable "one price fits all" for residential electric service would be the norm.

    Like internet service.
    correct , also there would be no demand for junk electric vehicles without govt fatwas
    Do something Danke

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Obviously price signals need to match the timing of delivery. That's the same with any product - and what went so horribly wrong in Texas. VERY few but the largest customers get real-time data. If you did, you don't need to make those behavior decisions yourself. You would set the prices into your car, HVAC, whatever appliances to shed load during high prices and require a manual override to change that. Industrial customers are used to this, but it hasn't made its way down to residential markets.
    Yes, it may be hard to get all individuals to connect everything to the internet (like their thermostat). My thermostat can do that, but I never connected it to the WiFi.

    Now I would assume that all modern EVs have the capability to time their charging and be controlled remotely. But the requests by the "California Independent System Operator" were directed at EV owners. One might assume that even though the capabilities are built into the vehicles, that consumers are not using those features (based upon that announcement).

    Twice last week the California Independent System Operator (ISO) told residents to conserve energy voluntarily, including asking to charge their EVs at certain off-peak times
    Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 06-24-2021 at 12:50 PM.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Now I would assume that all modern EVs have the capability to time their charging and be controlled remotely.
    I can not wait for the day when a natural disaster causes a traffic jam like this:



    And thousands of people find out that their EVs did not charge because they were shut down remotely by the grid controller or government.
    According to government's own numbers, over half a MILLION people are dead, just in the US alone, because of a man made virus designed to be even more deadly than what would be found in nature, released, possibly on purpose, from a Chinese lab, a virus that that was created from funding and prior research given to the Chinese scientists by our own government because we, in fit of sanity, pulled the plug on funding here.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I can not wait for the day when a natural disaster causes a traffic jam like this:



    And thousands of people find out that their EVs did not charge because they were shut down remotely by the grid controller or government.
    Even better, when the roads start jamming up, they can just start disabling cars remotely so they don't even leave the driveway.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Even better, when the roads start jamming up, they can just start disabling cars remotely so they don't even leave the driveway.
    Try carrying electrons in a five gallon jug.
    According to government's own numbers, over half a MILLION people are dead, just in the US alone, because of a man made virus designed to be even more deadly than what would be found in nature, released, possibly on purpose, from a Chinese lab, a virus that that was created from funding and prior research given to the Chinese scientists by our own government because we, in fit of sanity, pulled the plug on funding here.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Try carrying electrons in a five gallon jug.
    I prefer plastic grocery bags...
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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