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Thread: The Truth About "Communism/Socialism"

  1. #1

    The Truth About "Communism/Socialism"

    EDITED TO CORRECT AN EGREGIOUS ERROR IN WORD USAGE. YEESH...


    https://freedomisobvious.blogspot.com/2021/06/the-truth-about-communismsocialism.html


    The Truth About "Communism/Socialism"





    On another forum, an individual was going on about so-called "anarcho-communism". I pointed out how the term was a maximal oxymoron, with the grand emphasis on "moron". He went on the cite the common etymological root between "communal" and "communism", an error so grave that I felt I must respond. The exchange, fruitless as it may have proven, got me to thinking that a restatement of the basic problem of political philosophies such as communism may be in order, if for no other reason than to offer yet another expression of the argument against such arrangements. And so here we find ourselves.

    To put it very bluntly, communism is a game of felonies.

    Communism plays on all the worst that is in a human being, most specifically, FAIL (Fear, Avarice, Ignorance, and Lassitude).

    In practical terms, communism is all about the individual riding the wave of graft and other crimes against his fellows. It is mob rule not unlike democracy in its ultimate practical results, but with differently colored grease paint on its face.


    Even the dullards among us immediately recognize the opportunities for said graft that communism radiates outward in it messages of "equality". Humans, beasts that they tend to be on the average and in so many respects, see only themselves and devote their efforts to conjuring the ways in which they will be able to live off the labors of others. As sufficient numbers of such ways become apparent to them in mere seconds, they are immediately on board with the idea. "Oh HELL YES! I wanna be a communist!"


    We could speak for volumes on the ostensible reasons for the eager desire to embrace communism/socialism, but the underlying truth to which few will admit is simply that they expect to get something for nothing. Working for a living is for the suckers. Shoot, if a mob of men with swords is willing and able to force my neighbors to pay my rent, feed, clothe, and supply me all I desire in life, sign me the hell up!


    Let us not be fooled by the disingenuous talk of altruism, a concept that makes my skin crawl for its falsity. It's all lies, and even in the rare case where someone has managed to convince himself that his motives are altruistic, the blind ignorance of such belief constitutes a top-tier human obscenity.


    Forget the fact that the would-be beneficiary of the great socialist utopia will almost certainly prove bitterly disappointed and left without recourse in his deep state of buyer's remorse. That is the bitter harvest of the poisonous seed for which he exchanged his soul and that outcome has been demonstrated in literally every case where socialism has been tried. The paltry numbers of those whose lives materially improved because they'd been the bottom of the socio-economic barrel don't count for anything. Even those poor slobs, rather than having experienced a net benefit, suffer gross net loss due to the loss of their freedoms, a condition about which they may or may not care, so long as their bellies have something in them, however stale or rancid.


    Communism/socialism is a shell game that makes everyone below The Line more or less equally impoverished, diseased, wanting, and miserable. The only real beneficiaries are those who live above The Line. Here, by "The Line", I specifically refer to Themme (pronoun referring to those people who sit in seats of actual political power - the string-pullers). Consider the Soviets - a cabal of stooges who, through outright lies and the point of the sword, lived like fat rats at the expense of their hunger-stricken and miserably impoverished proletariat fellows. Did the rust factory worker have a dacha on the Black Sea? No. Generally speaking, the only people with such bourgeois luxuries were those in the inner circles of the Communist Party. Add hypocrisy to their long list of crimes.

    Communism != communal living. The two have nothing to do with each other because the latter is a descriptive term, whereas the former is proscriptive. The one is a simple observation of what is, the other a specification of what should be: positive v. normative. One sees what's happening, the other barks orders and edicts at you, backed by the false authority of the sword.

    Can I make this any more clear?


    Do not be taken in by the superficial similarities and the tacit assumption that appearances represent the deeper truths upon which they are painted. Nor should you make the grave error of trusting the competence of those peddling these slippery terms to the world. And finally, always remember and never forget that the intentions of those who peddle these pills of conceptual poison are utterly irrelevant.


    Far too many of us are in the habit of miring ourselves in the arguments of a criminal's intentions, as if ostensibly good ones would somehow excuse the felon's actions and the harms he has brought to others. Intentions count for absolutely nothing at all, especially in such cases. Result is the only thing that matters where such issues are concerned and the unamended violation of a man's rights is always an outcome of the criminal variety, by definition.



    Language is a powerful tool, and as we can see, those of malicious intent or who are insufficient to their claim to authority [politicians] use language to foul ends. Equating "communism" with "communal living" is an example of folly that dives headfirst and without due circumspection into the deep waters of wild danger.


    As I have written before and shall continue to repeat: language is the single most important skill you will ever learn in all your years in this life. Nothing else even comes close to its import and effect on everything in this world. And to make things even stickier, language is one of the most fiendishly devilish endeavors imaginable. It is only through awareness of its significance and nature, coupled with an attitude of determination to become linguistically masterful and vigilant in our communications habits that we Freemen stand even the least chances against Theire hordes, for the misuse of language is far and away easier, cheaper, and more devastatingly effective than it's judicious application in our interpersonal transactions. This is the somewhat sad truth of these things. Just as the "negative" emotion of hatred is far more potents, pond for pound, than love, so it can be said of the misuse of words versus the proper. We may call this the "entropy of language"


    It make take years to erect a large office building, but it takes only seconds to bring it all down with properly applied pyrotechnics. The explosive demolition of edifices is a prime and readily observable example of how entropy works in our daily lives. The far less apparent, yet vastly more dangerous example is that of the destructive force of words chosen poorly, or very adroitly for effect.


    If you do yourself no other favor in your life, endeavor to develop strong linguistic expertise and the right habits, the latter being perhaps even more important. If your skills, such as they may be, are not put to proper use through the adoption of razor-sharp habits of communication, then you may as well have no such skills.


    Be well, be smart, be intolerant of the intolerable, and as always and until next time, please accept my best wishes.
    Last edited by osan; 06-16-2021 at 04:08 AM.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    "Government" is naught but a mental construct, a script to which people meekly accept and play out their assigned roles by those with no authority to dictate such.

    Pray for reset.

    BRING BACK THE BANANA! OF THIS MESSAGE I AM APPROVE.




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  3. #2
    This is for you.

    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    To put it very bluntly, communism is a game of felonies.

    Communism plays on all the worst that is in a human being, most specifically, FAIL (Fear, Avarice, Ignorance, and Lassitude).

    In practical terms, communism is all about the individual riding the wave of graft and other crimes against his fellows. It is mob rule not unlike democracy in its ultimate practical results, but with differently colored grease paint on its face.
    I could say the same thing about our so-called "capitalist democracy" (or should I say monopolacy or mediacrazy?): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-the-elections

    Where (just like in communist China) everybody is basically a snitch walking around with surveillance equipment (cell phones).


    Have you read George Orwell's "Animal farm"?
    ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL
    BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS
    http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks01/0100011h.html


    Or maybe Franz Kafka is more appropriate?
    Calling the Kingdom of the Netherlands a "democracy" even though the king has dictatorial powers...
    Last edited by Firestarter; 06-15-2021 at 01:40 PM.
    Do NOT ever read my posts. Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: Google-censors-the-world/page3

    The Order of the Garter rules the world: Order of the Garter and the Carolingian dynasty

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    I could say the same thing about our so-called "capitalist democracy"
    Your point? What we have is by far better than communism, but it remains a gilt cage. Nobody with a lick of sense or integrity denies this.

    Furthermore, communism isn't a euphemism for something it isn't. "Capitalist democracy", OTOH, is very much that. Neither of these have the least thing to do with actual freedom.

    Further still, the hordes of empty-headed failed "intellects" we call "left" are not flocking to "capitalist democracy", but rather communism... on their knees, mouths opened wide in eager anticipation of their spasmed reward.

    Have you read George Orwell's "Animal farm"?

    http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks01/0100011h.html
    Does a child molester live in the Vatican?


    Or maybe Franz Kafka is more appropriate?
    Calling the Kingdom of the Netherlands a "democracy" even though the king has dictatorial powers...
    But I'm not speaking of "capitalist democracy". I'm speaking strictly of communism/socialism. It is to that to which far too much of humanity is running. Your "capitalist democracy" is another discussion.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    "Government" is naught but a mental construct, a script to which people meekly accept and play out their assigned roles by those with no authority to dictate such.

    Pray for reset.

    BRING BACK THE BANANA! OF THIS MESSAGE I AM APPROVE.


  6. #5
    penultimate[ pi-nuhl-tuh-mit ]




    adjective
    next to the last:
    the penultimate scene of the play.
    of or relating to a penult or the next to the last syllable in a word:
    In the word appropriate,-pri- is the penultimate syllable.


    noun
    a penult.
    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/penultimate
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Yeah. I was gonna mention it, saw you were the "ultimate" poster, and knew RPF's resident Asperger's would pick up on it.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Yeah. I was gonna mention it, saw you were the "ultimate" poster, and knew RPF's resident Asperger's would pick up on it.
    As of now, I am both the ultimate poster, and the antepenultimate poster, while you are the penultimate poster, though this may change soon.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    As of now, I am both the ultimate poster, and the antepenultimate poster, while you are the penultimate poster, though this may change soon.
    The only thing certain about life is change, penultimate loser.
    (crap. am I the ultimate loser?)
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post

    Well foo. Thanks for pointing this out.

    I would swear on a stack of bibles a mile high that that was not the meaning, but it's precise opposite... not the ultimate, but a notch down in a way analogous to the relationship between optimal and optimum.

    How in hell I got the definition so reversed in my thoughts is a mite past me.

    OK, so I have to correct myself by pointing out my error and my actual meaning, which is reversed from what I wrote. Pity's sake, this is really disturbing. I hope this isn't one of those signs of creeping decrepitude.

    Thanks again. I may have an edit or two to perform.

    Did I mention foo?
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    "Government" is naught but a mental construct, a script to which people meekly accept and play out their assigned roles by those with no authority to dictate such.

    Pray for reset.

    BRING BACK THE BANANA! OF THIS MESSAGE I AM APPROVE.


  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    The only thing certain about life is change, penultimate loser.
    (crap. am I the ultimate loser?)
    In the end we all are, but that's OK because we escape the prison planet run by the lizard people.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    "Government" is naught but a mental construct, a script to which people meekly accept and play out their assigned roles by those with no authority to dictate such.

    Pray for reset.

    BRING BACK THE BANANA! OF THIS MESSAGE I AM APPROVE.


  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    But I'm not speaking of "capitalist democracy". I'm speaking strictly of communism/socialism. It is to that to which far too much of humanity is running. Your "capitalist democracy" is another discussion.
    No it isn't...

    They give us a bunch of political ideologies to enslave us...
    They have tried to make this into some sort of religious thing, where gullible fools believe that it's a fight between "good" and "evil", between their side (that is inevitably "good"), and the "other" side.

    In reality not only both sides (whether left or right) are just as evil (with perhaps an occasional incident of an honest politician that gets into a powerful position, maybe JFK Pim Fortuyn?), but are working for the same cabal.
    With left and right sides of the same coin that are the best support for the other side.

    Hillary was arguably the best publicity for Donald.
    Donald got Biden elected.
    And now Biden as the president that can't even hold a press conference, makes even Trump look good...

    It looks like Franz Kafka.


    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Does a child molester live in the Vatican?
    Probably multiple...
    What does this have to do with socialism/communism and your silly believe in some right wing flavour of politrics to save the day?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    There’s also a video of Toos Nijenhuis who testified that she was present at similar child sacrifice ceremonies (including paedophilia) in the presence of Prince Bernhard and Joseph Ratzinger (better known as the resigned pope Benedictus).
    The video is difficult to watch because she doesn’t speak English very well and it’s not subtitled. Following is a 16:37 part of the complete video (where she names Prince Bernhard): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A1o1Egi20c
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6605261
    Last edited by Firestarter; 06-16-2021 at 11:35 PM.
    Do NOT ever read my posts. Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: Google-censors-the-world/page3

    The Order of the Garter rules the world: Order of the Garter and the Carolingian dynasty

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    No it isn't...

    They give us a bunch of political ideologies to enslave us...
    They have tried to make this into some sort of religious thing, where gullible fools believe that it's a fight between "good" and "evil", between their side (that is inevitably "good"), and the "other" side.

    In reality not only both sides (whether left or right) are just as evil (with perhaps an occasional incident of an honest politician that gets into a powerful position, maybe JFK Pim Fortuyn?), but are working for the same cabal.
    With left and right sides of the same coin that are the best support for the other side.

    Hillary was arguably the best publicity for Donald.
    Donald got Biden elected.
    And now Biden as the president that can't even hold a press conference, makes even Trump look good...

    It looks like Franz Kafka.



    Probably multiple...
    What does this have to do with socialism/communism and your silly believe in some right wing flavour of politrics to save the day?


    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6605261
    True. At the end of Animal Farm you couldn't tell the difference between the pigs and the humans. The pigs representing the communists and the humans representing the feudal capitalists the pigs overthrew. The pigs had long dispensed with all of the "classes society" egalitarianism they had started off with. Look at China now. They are as authoritarian as ever. And *gasp* in many ways they fit the definition of capitalism! The giant factories that spit out the junk we by at Walmart are privately owned. There are Chinese billionaires. They even built their own social media platform (TikTok) and advertised the hell out of it on YouTube.

    The real issue is authoritarianism vs liberty. I don't care if someone calls himself an anarco-capitalist or an anarco-communist. At the end of the day is he for or against authoritarianism? When you have people running around hoping Trump might become a dictator to "fix everything" (see my sig) that's going in the wrong direction regardless of the label used.

    Edit: And I don't know if the word "politrics" was a typo or on purpose but I like it! Yes. We are being assaulted with political tricks constantly.
    Last edited by jmdrake; 06-17-2021 at 05:37 AM.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    In the end we all are, but that's OK because we escape the prison planet run by the lizard people.
    Lizard People?
    In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.
    This is my trust,, as I wait for escape.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    No it isn't...
    Oh, but it is. No matter, believe as you wish.

    They give us a bunch of political ideologies to enslave us...
    They have tried to make this into some sort of religious thing, where gullible fools believe that it's a fight between "good" and "evil", between their side (that is inevitably "good"), and the "other" side.
    We agree, but it is still beside the point of my post. I was specifically addressing the so-called "left", and nothing else. You are attempting to call this error because I have not included the rest of the filth, meaning you miss the strategic point entirely. It is the "left" that is winning hearts and minds precisely because they are promising free unicorn-poo ice cream cones for everyone.

    And to be blunt, there is a fundamental difference between communists and everyone else. Free $#@! is a major structural difference in the world-views of progressives and, say, Republicans. That is not to say righties don't have their problems - we agree they abound in all parties, but to claim there is no substantive difference between the two is absurd, prima facie. Here we speak then in terms of degrees of slavery and the "right" is decidedly less restrictive than the "left", and often by very wide gaps. But it remains a slave mindset, and in that regard the one is as rotten as the other. But if you are going to tell me that you would find there to be no palpable difference between living in a "right" world v. a "left", then I would have to infer that either your mind is gone or you are selling a bill of goods.

    I
    n reality not only both sides (whether left or right) are just as evil (with perhaps an occasional incident of an honest politician that gets into a powerful position, maybe JFK Pim Fortuyn?), but are working for the same cabal.
    Same cabal? That is speculative at best, and irrelevant in all practical terms. Whether Theye are one, or of several flavors makes little difference in every day living.

    With left and right sides of the same coin that are the best support for the other side.
    Depends on what the coin actually is. If we speak in broad terms of political control, then I would agree. If it is something more specific, I would have to see the evidence that would differentiate the one from the rest in terms that actually have real significance.

    Until then, I remain the skeptic.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    "Government" is naught but a mental construct, a script to which people meekly accept and play out their assigned roles by those with no authority to dictate such.

    Pray for reset.

    BRING BACK THE BANANA! OF THIS MESSAGE I AM APPROVE.


  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Lizard People?


    This is my trust,, as I wait for escape.
    Bear in mind the old saw: God help those who help themselves.

    Waiting for someone to come bail your ass out is almost 100% guaRONteed to get you nowhere good, real fast. And so it goes with the human race, always waiting for someone else to do the heavy lifting. Look where it's gotten us.

    Make of that what thou wilt.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    "Government" is naught but a mental construct, a script to which people meekly accept and play out their assigned roles by those with no authority to dictate such.

    Pray for reset.

    BRING BACK THE BANANA! OF THIS MESSAGE I AM APPROVE.


  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Bear in mind the old saw: God help those who help themselves.

    Waiting for someone to come bail your ass out is almost 100% guaRONteed to get you nowhere good, real fast. And so it goes with the human race, always waiting for someone else to do the heavy lifting. Look where it's gotten us.

    Make of that what thou wilt.
    Bail me out..?

    I plead Guilty (I was) to serious crimes, as part of my repentance..

    God did not promise to "get me out of it",, He went with me through it. and since.

    and God will Judge those that "Help Themselves". (that was my crime)

    was born in 1957,, met my Creator in 1980.

    He has not allowed my exit as yet..

    I remain as an Observer in enemy occupied territory.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    We agree, but it is still beside the point of my post. I was specifically addressing the so-called "left", and nothing else. You are attempting to call this error because I have not included the rest of the filth, meaning you miss the strategic point entirely. It is the "left" that is winning hearts and minds precisely because they are promising free unicorn-poo ice cream cones for everyone.
    I didn't really disagree with your original post, and didn't do much more than draw the inevitable conclusion that politrcis it's really a big charade with the left-right narrative meant to keep us interested in this gameshow, with in the one corner the politician that promises to Make American Great Again and the other to Build Back Better...

    Propaganda that will only work if there is a supposed adversary.
    Obviously you do know this, but want the herd interested in this gameshow for some reason I don't really understand.


    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Until then, I remain the skeptic.
    One-sided posting in the vain of one side is "evil" (left-socialist-communist) ironically not only supports the right wing flavour of politrics that you prefer, but supports the whole left-right Hegelian dialectic, ironically including the socialist communism that you hate so much!
    Do NOT ever read my posts. Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: Google-censors-the-world/page3

    The Order of the Garter rules the world: Order of the Garter and the Carolingian dynasty

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Bail me out..?
    I was speaking in the general, not necessarily of you in particular, though you words hinted at this, which is why I wrote what I wrote.

    and God will Judge those that "Help Themselves". (that was my crime)
    I'm pretty certain you know I did not mean "help yourself" in that sense. But in case you didn't grok, now you know.

    I remain as an Observer in enemy occupied territory.
    Same here.

    Semper vigilo.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    "Government" is naught but a mental construct, a script to which people meekly accept and play out their assigned roles by those with no authority to dictate such.

    Pray for reset.

    BRING BACK THE BANANA! OF THIS MESSAGE I AM APPROVE.


  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    I didn't really disagree with your original post, and didn't do much more than draw the inevitable conclusion that politrcis it's really a big charade with the left-right narrative meant to keep us interested in this gameshow, with in the one corner the politician that promises to Make American Great Again and the other to Build Back Better...


    Well gee, thanks for letting me in on the secret.

    I think the $#@!-show nature of all this is pretty well assumed as going without saying.

    Propaganda that will only work if there is a supposed adversary.
    Obviously you do know this, but want the herd interested in this gameshow for some reason I don't really understand.
    In english, please?

    One-sided posting in the vain of one side is "evil" (left-socialist-communist) ironically not only supports the right wing flavour of politrics that you prefer, but supports the whole left-right Hegelian dialectic, ironically including the socialist communism that you hate so much!
    You infer way too much. Firstly, were I to take a side, I would do so with the right over left every time. Why? Glad you asked. Because people who ID as "right" tend on the average to be open to persuasion far more so than those who ID as left. I see this every day. I could not begin to count the "conservatives" I've met or known who were at least willing to listen to a differing point of view. The number of people I've met of known who ID as "left" of "progressive/communist/socialist/liberal" who demonstrated themselves as willing to so listen I could count on one hand and have fingers left, unused.

    I'm talking of thousands of people over the course of the past forty years, making my experiences statistically valid and not simple anecdotal points in space.

    As bull$#@! as the left/right paradigm is, there is a secondary effect of attracting people of certain low-level sorts to those respective philosophies. In general, those of the "left" are narrow-minded to an almost impossible-to-believe level. They tend to be wanton, petty, believers in unicorn poo, angry, endlessly vindictive, and as vicious as any creature in the galaxy. Those who tend to lean right are typically more likely to accept an opposing political view, to listen before destroying absurd arguments, and to alter their views when presented with compellingly reasoned arguments for doing so.

    Be clear that here I speak in terms of political views. I very specifically leave out other issues because they are irrelevant to the topic at hand.

    The "right" still suffers from state supremacy, but to a far lesser degree. That doesn't excuse their errored positions, but if you have to choose between which tyranny under which to live for the remainder of your life, I'm pretty certain you would be choosing right over left... that is, if you had any sense, which I'm assuming you do.

    That all said, yes we agree that even the right needs to buy several clues regarding how they view the world and our individual places in it.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    "Government" is naught but a mental construct, a script to which people meekly accept and play out their assigned roles by those with no authority to dictate such.

    Pray for reset.

    BRING BACK THE BANANA! OF THIS MESSAGE I AM APPROVE.


  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    I'm talking of thousands of people over the course of the past forty years, making my experiences statistically valid and not simple anecdotal points in space.
    You're not really claiming to be capable to remember the political views of "thousands of people over the course of the past forty years"?!?
    Of course you DO insinuate that you're completely objective!


    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    I'm pretty certain you would be choosing right over left... that is, if you had any sense, which I'm assuming you do.

    I haven't voted in more than 20 years, we've had cabinets dominated by "left" wing or "right" wing parties. The dictatorial monarch remains the same.
    The only difference between the 2 are the propaganda stories we get shoved down our throats.


    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    You infer way too much. Firstly, were I to take a side, I would do so with the right over left every time. Why? Glad you asked. Because people who ID as "right" tend on the average to be open to persuasion far more so than those who ID as left. I see this every day. I could not begin to count the "conservatives" I've met or known who were at least willing to listen to a differing point of view. The number of people I've met of known who ID as "left" of "progressive/communist/socialist/liberal" who demonstrated themselves as willing to so listen I could count on one hand and have fingers left, unused.
    While there are differences between left or right wing believers the difference you point out doesn't exist.
    There are both right and left wing "extremists" that refuse to ever change their mind. Ironically sometimes these "extremists" come closer to the truth than those moderates who will go with every new twist in their preferred flavour of propaganda.
    Right wingers are sometimes referred to as "conservatives", which suggests that it's the other way around (this is not my opinion though).

    I've posted on forums where people continuously spin stories to push their one-sided propaganda. On this forum the people who push socialist propaganda tend to get neg repped and ultimately banned. People who post right wing propaganda are often respected "supporting" members.
    The result is that this forum, like so many others, has become (or always was) sort of one-sided.

    I just have to look at the current COVID plandemic, to see that left/right/catholic/muslim/hindu ultimately makes no difference. They have all locked down, while they're pushing the depopulation vaccine paid for by the taxpayer.
    And of course the digital vaccine passports forcing everybody to walk around with their cell phone...

    The only difference seems to be is the propaganda the left or right wing spread. The left wing media spinning tales that we should be thankful that leftist politicians protect us from this terrible disease (with the 0.1% mortality), while the right wing media tells us that the right wing politicians haven't taken away all of our rights.
    Ironically it's the "socialist" Sweden (with the massive amount of migrants) that seems to have the least draconian lockdown in the developed world, once again showing that it really doesn't matter what these right/left politricksters and dumb/deaf/blind media tell.

    Politrics is NOT the solution, but IS the problem. No right (or) left wing political ideology will make our world a better place. They will continue to take from us until there's nothing left.
    Do NOT ever read my posts. Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: Google-censors-the-world/page3

    The Order of the Garter rules the world: Order of the Garter and the Carolingian dynasty

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    You're not really claiming to be capable to remember the political views of "thousands of people over the course of the past forty years"?!?
    Of course you DO insinuate that you're completely objective!
    Not in every specific, but in the general tone and the relative proportions.



    I haven't voted in more than 20 years, we've had cabinets dominated by "left" wing or "right" wing parties. The dictatorial monarch remains the same.
    The only difference between the 2 are the propaganda stories we get shoved down our throats.

    Of course. Why? Because this is $#@!-show and not actual governance by those who take their oaths seriously.

    While there are differences between left or right wing believers the difference you point out doesn't exist.
    There are both right and left wing "extremists" that refuse to ever change their mind. Ironically sometimes these "extremists" come closer to the truth than those moderates who will go with every new twist in their preferred flavour of propaganda.
    Right wingers are sometimes referred to as "conservatives", which suggests that it's the other way around (this is not my opinion though).
    Believe as you wish, of course, but the differences are real, fairly widespread, and are significant. I've lived it all first-hand. There are $#@!s and ignorants of every stripe. That and $4 gets you really $#@!ty coffee from a Seattle based progressive $#@!-stain corporation whose left-leaning employees might dip their tiny balls into your latte just because you have the nerve to assert your freedom.

    I've posted on forums where people continuously spin stories to push their one-sided propaganda. On this forum the people who push socialist propaganda tend to get neg repped and ultimately banned. People who post right wing propaganda are often respected "supporting" members.
    The result is that this forum, like so many others, has become (or always was) sort of one-sided.

    Are you suggesting that I am going this? If so, please and by all means do present your evidence.

    I have no horse in the left/right race. I believe in freedom. PERIOD.

    I just have to look at the current COVID plandemic, to see that left/right/catholic/muslim/hindu ultimately makes no difference. They have all locked down, while they're pushing the depopulation vaccine paid for by the taxpayer.
    And of course the digital vaccine passports forcing everybody to walk around with their cell phone...
    Agreed, but your point is orthogonal to that of this thread.

    The only difference seems to be is the propaganda the left or right wing spread. The left wing media spinning tales that we should be thankful that leftist politicians protect us from this terrible disease (with the 0.1% mortality), while the right wing media tells us that the right wing politicians haven't taken away all of our rights.
    Ironically it's the "socialist" Sweden (with the massive amount of migrants) that seems to have the least draconian lockdown in the developed world, once again showing that it really doesn't matter what these right/left politricksters and dumb/deaf/blind media tell.

    There is that, sure - but you're painting with a brush that is entirely too wide. I speak of trends. The statistical mean of the typical "right" leaner is far and away preferable to that of those who go left. This is glaringly true. It doesn't mean that a right-leaning world would be free. Far from it. But it would be a damned sight closer to it.

    Politrics is NOT the solution, but IS the problem. No right (or) left wing political ideology will make our world a better place. They will continue to take from us until there's nothing left.
    Once again, we mostly agree, but also once again the point is orthogonal. You speak in broad terms, I was speaking to a comparatively narrow phenomenon.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    "Government" is naught but a mental construct, a script to which people meekly accept and play out their assigned roles by those with no authority to dictate such.

    Pray for reset.

    BRING BACK THE BANANA! OF THIS MESSAGE I AM APPROVE.


  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Not in every specific, but in the general tone and the relative proportions.





    Of course. Why? Because this is $#@!-show and not actual governance by those who take their oaths seriously.



    Believe as you wish, of course, but the differences are real, fairly widespread, and are significant. I've lived it all first-hand. There are $#@!s and ignorants of every stripe. That and $4 gets you really $#@!ty coffee from a Seattle based progressive $#@!-stain corporation whose left-leaning employees might dip their tiny balls into your latte just because you have the nerve to assert your freedom.




    Are you suggesting that I am going this? If so, please and by all means do present your evidence.

    I have no horse in the left/right race. I believe in freedom. PERIOD.



    Agreed, but your point is orthogonal to that of this thread.




    There is that, sure - but you're painting with a brush that is entirely too wide. I speak of trends. The statistical mean of the typical "right" leaner is far and away preferable to that of those who go left. This is glaringly true. It doesn't mean that a right-leaning world would be free. Far from it. But it would be a damned sight closer to it.



    Once again, we mostly agree, but also once again the point is orthogonal. You speak in broad terms, I was speaking to a comparatively narrow phenomenon.
    I just have one question. Do you still agree with this quote?

    "The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum."

    Because....I don't. I see authoritarianism as the problem. I could care less what some group of people who don't want government authority over them wishes to do in their own voluntary community. If they want to have a free market outside of government control great! If they want to have a communist economy outside of government control, meaning a community where the means of production are shared equally among all members of the community, more power to them. As long as I don't have to participate I don't care. If the right wing wants to ban gay marriage in their own private community I don't care. If the left wing autonomous community wants everybody to be polyamorous in their community, I don't care. All I care is that these voluntary communities remain voluntary. No government force whatsoever. Of course, that means if you walk off and leave your property, and somebody comes in a squats on it, don't come to me demanding my help in forcing the squaters out. Maybe I'll help you. Maybe I won't. But you can't tax me so that you have have your own "enforce my property rights" squad. If there is some "enforce my property rights" squad then don't call what you're doing "anarco-capitalism." If you think martial law is needed to "fix" things, don't call what you are doing "anarco-capitalism." I don't even think you can call that "minarcism" even.

    If we think in terms of "authoratarianism vs non-authoratarianism" then there is a possibility of consensus. But without that, this whole conversation is just posturing.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    I just have one question. Do you still agree with this quote?

    "The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum."
    Cannot answer that as there appears to be insufficient context.

    Because....I don't. I see authoritarianism as the problem.
    We agree.

    I could care less what some group of people who don't want government authority over them wishes to do in their own voluntary community. If they want to have a free market outside of government control great!
    What a group wants is not perforce the problem. Tyrants don't care a whit what you want, if it does not accord perfectly with what they want - what they will allow.

    If they want to have a communist economy outside of government control, meaning a community where the means of production are shared equally among all members of the community, more power to them.
    This is eminently debatable. And if they want, and agree to, human sacrifice?

    If they want something whose elements ultimately lead to the authoritarianism which you claim to disdain, then it would seem that tolerating their actions is likely to lead to the selfsame tyranny. This has been the invariable pattern in human civilizations as far back as our history allows us to see. Tyranny always erupts and when it's victims fail to answer it with murderous force, they are ultimately consumed in its flames.

    As long as I don't have to participate I don't care.
    And that is the precise reason the world is in the dumper; the attitude of "if I don't feel the pinch, I don't care." The cancerous plague WILL get you if a critical mass of grimly intolerant warriors do not put it to ends in a manner that bespeaks stern non-equivocation. If you do not stop those who choose authoritarianism, ostensibly "only for themselves", the day inevitably comes when you are no longer left with the option of not participating. History witnesses this time and again. It is not up for debate any more than is the 154-car train that is bearing down on your position on the mainline track running through the center of your town. If you remain standing where you are, the train is going to rend you asunder, no discussion.

    Leave those whose basic world view is corrupted by authoritarianism to their devices, unchecked, and one day they will knock at your door and they will not be smiling. At the very least, such people need to be reminded that you will exterminate their genetic lines if they so much as suggest anything that even hints of the unjust application of the least force against the innate freedoms of men. Such people are inherently unworthy of the smallest measure of trust. They prove this by virtue of the beliefs to which they subscribe themselves. Their stated beliefs betray their corruptions, the very ones that tell one in clear tones that, given enough time and "tolerance", they will one day bring you to that place where your options are narrowed beyond any hope of freedom.

    If you want to be free, then you must perforce murder the Tyrant because to fail to do so will lead you to the unenviable position of having to choose between death and capitulation, with no other alternatives between.

    If the right wing wants to ban gay marriage in their own private community I don't care.
    Your statement presupposes qualities of "community" that I suspect do not hold. Community is a concept that was either rotten from the get-go, or has been mangled through abuse of the word. As currently used, most especially by those who call themselves "left", "community" tacitly assumes a uniformity between individuals in virtually all respects that has never existed, nor will it ever, so far as my reasoned and imaginative extrapolations are able to contrive. People change. What Johnny wants today, he rejects tomorrow. When rejection places him at basic odds with "community", what then? If he is not free to change his mind, then we are back to the same place all civilized men find themselves: tyranny. We can talk about his ability to move out of the community, but what of his various properties, such as his home and the various other material investments that me might not be able to put into his pocket and walk away with? What about his relationships? Might those not equally be important?

    When "community" is employed to tyrannize its members, I say the community in question isn't worth the match one would use to burn it to the ground.

    All I care is that these voluntary communities remain voluntary.
    Once again, we agree. But how many communities can you point to that have remained true to the ideal of voluntary participation? Few, if any, I suspect. Look at the Lubavitchers. So long as you are a member in good standing, life is good. The moment you vary, you are immediately "treated" and if you fail to come around, you are shunned. Being of a social nature, this can be a very tough deal, yet the authoritarian indulges in his sadisms, petty or grand, without compunction because he knows what's right for everyone and woe unto anyone who questions him, much less refuses.

    No government force whatsoever.
    But what is "government force"? Your words seem to imply that maybe some other form of force is acceptable. Most people are deeply contaminated in their most basic thoughts and perceptions. It may not be their fault, but that really doesn't make much difference when those thoughts and perceptions lead them to the belief that they are authorized to impose their views on the rest.

    If you think martial law is needed to "fix" things, don't call what you are doing "anarco-capitalism." I don't even think you can call that "minarcism" even
    .

    To categorically reject martial law as a viable option in a world of $#@!ty alternatives, is not circumspect. I can readily see circumstances where that is the only practical response that will bring a land back from the brink. I will certainly agree that it is fraught with risk, but if we are presented with only crap choices, I might choose the least objectionable candidate. That doesn't mean I see it as good, but I can envision circumstances where it's the best of all bad worlds.

    If we think in terms of "authoratarianism vs non-authoratarianism" then there is a possibility of consensus. But without that, this whole conversation is just posturing.
    Untrue. The conversation could well be about making the best of a rotten situation. The world doesn't resolve so easily as your stated views seem to suggest. Things get messy, which is one reason we go to war and do horrible things to each other.

    I can speak for nobody but myself when I say I'm not posturing. It's not my thing and life is far too short to waste my time with what I view as useless stupidity.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    "Government" is naught but a mental construct, a script to which people meekly accept and play out their assigned roles by those with no authority to dictate such.

    Pray for reset.

    BRING BACK THE BANANA! OF THIS MESSAGE I AM APPROVE.


  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Cannot answer that as there appears to be insufficient context.
    All you have to do is look at the link in my sig to see the context of your own words. But for mean the context is irrelevant. There was absolutely no justification for Trump to do martial law. None whatsoever. A communist justifies martial law for the same reason you did, which is for some unnamed greater good.


    We agree.
    Maybe. I'm not convinced but okay.

    What a group wants is not perforce the problem. Tyrants don't care a whit what you want, if it does not accord perfectly with what they want - what they will allow.
    Tyranny is defined by what a tyrant does. Like instituting martial law in a time of relative peace. (Like the entire time Trump was president). If a group of people, like the Native Americans or the early Christian church, wants to have communal control of land and/or the means of production, there's nothing wrong with that. The early Christian church never forced anyone to join nor prevented anyone from leaving nor did they even force anyone to sell their land and donate it to the church. Everyone just did that (shock) voluntarily. If you took that EXACT same model and changed it from voluntary to "The people were forced to do it at the point of a spear" you would, just by that one change, go from a beautiful story of church cooperation to a horrible statist-communist nightmare. But you can't allow yourself to see this obvious truth for some reason.

    This is eminently debatable. And if they want, and agree to, human sacrifice?
    No. It's not "eminently debatable" by someone willing to engage in honest debate. Bringing up a fake argument like "What if they agree to human sacrifice" is not an honest debate tactic. Human sacrifice has nothing to do with communal ownership of land or communal ownership of the means of production. The Aztecs had private property, unlike the plains Indians, and the Aztecs were the ones doing human sacrifice. Same with the Mayans.

    And just so you don't think I'm making this up...

    https://tarlton.law.utexas.edu/aztec...he%20saw%20fit.

    And there was private property ownership in feudal Europe...and there were "witches" burned at the stake. So really your "human sacrifice" argument goes AGAINST what you are arguing.

    If they want something whose elements ultimately lead to the authoritarianism which you claim to disdain, then it would seem that tolerating their actions is likely to lead to the selfsame tyranny. This has been the invariable pattern in human civilizations as far back as our history allows us to see. Tyranny always erupts and when it's victims fail to answer it with murderous force, they are ultimately consumed in its flames.
    Total dishonest non-argument. None of this has anything to do with private versus collective ownership of land and/or the means of production.


    And that is the precise reason the world is in the dumper; the attitude of "if I don't feel the pinch, I don't care." The cancerous plague WILL get you if a critical mass of grimly intolerant warriors do not put it to ends in a manner that bespeaks stern non-equivocation. If you do not stop those who choose authoritarianism, ostensibly "only for themselves", the day inevitably comes when you are no longer left with the option of not participating. History witnesses this time and again. It is not up for debate any more than is the 154-car train that is bearing down on your position on the mainline track running through the center of your town. If you remain standing where you are, the train is going to rend you asunder, no discussion.
    Except you are the very definition of the people you are warning others against! You said that Trump run martial law was the solution to our current woes.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Except you are the very definition of the people you are warning others against! You said that Trump run martial law was the solution to our current woes.
    I said no such thing. If you think I did, then you misread my words.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    "Government" is naught but a mental construct, a script to which people meekly accept and play out their assigned roles by those with no authority to dictate such.

    Pray for reset.

    BRING BACK THE BANANA! OF THIS MESSAGE I AM APPROVE.


  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    I said no such thing. If you think I did, then you misread my words.
    The direct quote of your words are right in my sig. You absolutely said them. You can click on the link and read the context.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    The direct quote of your words are right in my sig. You absolutely said them. You can click on the link and read the context.
    You need to take a basic class in reading comprehension. "Real change" != perforce a "solution". Your read assumes facts not in evidence, such as this false equivalency. You interpreted my words through your filters. BIG error.

    Good grief.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    "Government" is naught but a mental construct, a script to which people meekly accept and play out their assigned roles by those with no authority to dictate such.

    Pray for reset.

    BRING BACK THE BANANA! OF THIS MESSAGE I AM APPROVE.




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