View Poll Results: Do you support a government ban of private vaccine passports?

Voters
10. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    7 70.00%
  • No

    3 30.00%
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Thread: Do you support a government ban of private vaccine passports

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post

    My attempt to do that via poll so far hasn't been very successful.
    Perhaps you should look at the concept behind the question..

    on what basis does any entity have a right to your personal health information?

    Why should a private entity have any right to ask such private questions? and for what Purpose.? (understanding that Covid is NOTHING)

    curious as to the purpose of such a ridiculous question..or the purpose of such an organization as you envision it.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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  3. #32
    By all means and beyond any shadow of a doubt, yes.

    Big Business should be held to the same account as Big Government and the people's right to be secure in their "persons, effects, papers and things" should be protected and criminal sanctions brought against those in Big Business who violate the people's rights and liberty.
    Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings. - Heinrich Heine 1823



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  5. #33
    Smells like data mining.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    on what basis does any entity have a right to your personal health information?
    On the basis of the fact that they have no obligation to do any business with anyone if they don't want to, and it is their right to refuse to do business with anyone they want for any reason they want.


    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Why should a private entity have any right to ask such private questions?
    On the basis of the fact that their own property belongs to them to make those decisions about, and no one else.

    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    and for what Purpose.?
    For any purpose they want on their own property. Those who don't want to provide that private information don't have to. They can just accept that this other individual doesn't want to do business with them and move on to do their business with someone else who will.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Um... yeah - that's the point. Which answer do you want? If you want people to take your side, ask Q1. If you want them to take the opposite side, ask Q2.
    Given the wording of the poll question that I used, which answer do you think I wanted people to give?
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Given the wording of the poll question that I used, which answer do you think I wanted people to give?


    "Do you support a government ban of private anything"???
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    How about you? Even from your earlier post I can't tell if you're a yes or a no. You said that in theory you would say no, but then when you talked about the real world you never said what your answer is for this real world that you then went on to describe.
    In the real world, I'd have to see the language of any proposed bill. In theory, businesses should be able to turn away anyone for any reason at any time. But that's not the world we're living in. Government is already forcing businesses to engage in commerce with people that they may not want to. If this fairy-tale ban you're proposing prevented government from coercing businesses to collude with each other I think I might support it.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post


    "Do you support a government ban of private anything"???
    I'm not sure what your answer to my question is. For most poll respondents here, the answer is yes. I expected that to be the case, albeit not with such a large majority. But I wasn't trying to lead anyone to give that response.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    In the real world, I'd have to see the language of any proposed bill.
    How about in the real world if a proposed bill banned private companies from issuing vaccine passports, or from using vaccine passports that were issued by other private companies as prerequisites for anything?

    This proposed bill doesn't have anything else bundled in with it. It's just that.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post


    "Do you support a government ban of private anything"???
    “Do you support a government ban on private Doctors providing abortions during the third trimester?”

    Edit: The point being that some people support some government bans, some people support other bans.
    Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 05-13-2021 at 01:37 PM.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    How about in the real world if a proposed bill banned private companies from issuing vaccine passports, or from using vaccine passports that were issued by other private companies as prerequisites for anything?

    This proposed bill doesn't have anything else bundled in with it. It's just that.
    I know you really want to remove all nuance (again to keep it in the theoretical realm), but nuance matters. First of all, this hasn't been a problem in the real world, so we are not likely to see legislation banning this. If it did become an issue, the corporate interests would line up against the ban, because they'd HAVE to ensure that it was as nearly ubiquitous as possible so that they wouldn't be driving their business to their competitors. If there was a collusion among businesses that in turn drove privacy advocates to request a ban on the practice, I'd like to see the bill to address the collusion rather than an outright ban, but that's not the real world either.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    On the basis of the fact that they have no obligation to do any business with anyone if they don't want to, and it is their right to refuse to do business with anyone they want for any reason they want.



    On the basis of the fact that their own property belongs to them to make those decisions about, and no one else.



    For any purpose they want on their own property. Those who don't want to provide that private information don't have to. They can just accept that this other individual doesn't want to do business with them and move on to do their business with someone else who will.
    Seems like a PHUCKING PISS POOR business practice.
    I would think it would insure the failure of nearly any business.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  16. #43
    The jab can cause serious injuries and death. One thing I think government is good for stepping in to prevent.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  17. #44
    ..
    Last edited by PAF; 05-13-2021 at 09:12 PM.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Seems like a PHUCKING PISS POOR business practice.
    I would think it would insure the failure of nearly any business.
    I think you're right.

    The market is capable of dealing with that.

    That was one of the points that was made in that Cato article that so many statists are upset about.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; 05-13-2021 at 03:26 PM.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    The jab can cause serious injuries and death. One thing I think government is good for stepping in to prevent.
    Are you saying that you think it is the proper role of government to step in and prevent people from making voluntary choices for themselves that result in their injury or death?
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Are you saying that you think it is the proper role of government to step in and prevent people from making voluntary choices for themselves that result in their injury or death?
    as long as I have to pay taxes and don’t have enough land to be self sufficient , yes. No jab and I can’t feed or house myself. No thanks.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  21. #48
    I'm glad to see that even after the trolls have been allowed to run off so many good members and the mods have banned some too that we still see common sense prevail in this poll:


    • Yes

      6 75.00%
    • No

      2 25.00%
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    as long as I have to pay taxes and don’t have enough land to be self sufficient , yes. No jab and I can’t feed or house myself. No thanks.
    Ya , everyone should be working on getting a few acres and plenty of ammo . Hard times could be coming . You dont want to end up living in a dumpster like tebowlives.
    Do something Danke

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I'm glad to see that even after the trolls have been allowed to run off so many good members and the mods have banned some too that we still see common sense prevail in this poll:


    • Yes

      6 75.00%
    • No

      2 25.00%
    I think we all know that Ron Paul himself would be a no vote on this.

    So how does agreeing with him make people trolls at Ron Paul Forums?
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    I think we all know that Ron Paul himself would be a no vote on this.

    So how does agreeing with him make people trolls at Ron Paul Forums?
    Ron's position that anything resembling a vaccine passport is a big NO for him, no matter who is issuing it, whether gov or private.

    Vaccine passports- The horrific idea of "show your papers" - RP Liberty Report (from only a month ago)
    https://www.facebook.com/ronpaul/vid...0700756977298/
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Ron's position that anything resembling a vaccine passport is a big NO for him, no matter who is issuing it, whether gov or private.
    I think you totally misread the poll question.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    I think we all know that Ron Paul himself would be a no vote on this.
    ...
    That would be entirely in your imagination. You certainly don't speak for Ron Paul.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Ron's position that anything resembling a vaccine passport is a big NO for him, no matter who is issuing it, whether gov or private.

    Vaccine passports- The horrific idea of "show your papers" - RP Liberty Report (from only a month ago)
    https://www.facebook.com/ronpaul/vid...0700756977298/
    Good link, and that is just one example. Anyone who watches the Liberty Report knows that Ron Paul is adamantly opposed to vaccine passports or any requirements for a COVID vaccine. He also supports Governors DeSantis’ and Abbott’s bans on vaccine passports or requirements.

    Here’s another example:

    Ron Paul: “We have to take a stand. And one, these vaccine passports can’t be allowed to go on.”

    Around 31:18:


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HhabS5NgJGQ
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Ron's position that anything resembling a vaccine passport is a big NO for him, no matter who is issuing it, whether gov or private.

    Vaccine passports- The horrific idea of "show your papers" - RP Liberty Report (from only a month ago)
    https://www.facebook.com/ronpaul/vid...0700756977298/
    From only three days ago.

    https://rumble.com/vgvg6x-the-vaccin...jcwo5&mc=2sdbb

    https://rumble.com/vgvg6x-the-vaccin...jcwo5&mc=2sdbb
    Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings. - Heinrich Heine 1823

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    That would be entirely in your imagination. You certainly don't speak for Ron Paul.



    Good link, and that is just one example. Anyone who watches the Liberty Report knows that Ron Paul is adamantly opposed to vaccine passports or any requirements for a COVID vaccine. He also supports Governors DeSantis’ and Abbott’s bans on vaccine passports or requirements.

    Here’s another example:

    Ron Paul: “We have to take a stand. And one, these vaccine passports can’t be allowed to go on.”

    Around 31:18:


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HhabS5NgJGQ
    You know full well that it's not just my imagination and that I'm 100% right about what I said. There's no possible disputing it for anyone who knows the first thing about Ron Paul. It's dishonest of you to pretend otherwise.

    Of course he's against vaccine passports. So am I, and I'm been clear on that.

    When Ron Paul gets a chance to vote on whether or not government should pass laws that prohibit people from making personal decisions for themselves to do something that he's against, he votes no on that ban. Every single time. For him, being against something isn't a reason for passing a new law to ban it. He leaves it to the market to sort that out, not the government.

    As he said in the video that Devil21 posted, there's no demand for this. He never hinted at wanting a new law to ban it.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    You know full well that it's not just my imagination and that I'm 100% right about what I said. There's no possible disputing it for anyone who knows the first thing about Ron Paul. It's dishonest of you to pretend otherwise.

    Of course he's against vaccine passports. So am I, and I'm been clear on that.

    When Ron Paul gets a chance to vote on whether or not government should pass laws that prohibit people from making personal decisions for themselves to do something that he's against, he votes no on that ban. Every single time. For him, being against something isn't a reason for passing a new law to ban it. He leaves it to the market to sort that out, not the government.

    As he said in the video that Devil21 posted, there's no demand for this. He never hinted at wanting a new law to ban it.
    You have no links to support your opinion. And you are the consistently dishonest one.

    Ron DeSantis signed a law banning all vaccine passports. Ron Paul cheered it.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



  31. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    When Ron Paul gets a chance to vote on whether or not government should pass laws that prohibit people from making personal decisions for themselves to do something that he's against, he votes no on that ban. Every single time. For him, being against something isn't a reason for passing a new law to ban it. He leaves it to the market to sort that out, not the government.

    As he said in the video that Devil21 posted, there's no demand for this. He never hinted at wanting a new law to ban it.
    Which is why when you try to remove the nuance, you end up flat. I'm actually glad to see Ron's position on this mirrors my own as I laid out earlier. There is no reason why a private company would do this without government coercion. So if this ever became an issue - which it won't - then you'd have to address the underlying problems. Obviously, some politicians are taking a proactive step to tell businesses to not slice their own throats. Ok - not really necessary, but also not really harmful compared to everything else they do. It's just a political show. But I'd rather have that political show than the opposite.

    In reality, if DeSantis and Abbot would have banned government from pressuring private companies to institute these vaccine passports, it would have accomplished the same thing without this ridiculous controversy you're trying to drum up. Because companies will NOT do this on their own.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Which is why when you try to remove the nuance, you end up flat. I'm actually glad to see Ron's position on this mirrors my own as I laid out earlier. There is no reason why a private company would do this without government coercion.
    I totally agree.

    I see no difference between your position and my own.

    I'm all for nuance. But nuance and direct answers to yes or no questions are not mutually exclusive. Paragraphs are great for nuance. Polls are great for the simple and specific yes or no question.

    I don't see why you think I'm tying to drum up controversy. I'm simply trying to see where people stand.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; 05-14-2021 at 12:49 PM.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Ron DeSantis signed a law banning all vaccine passports. Ron Paul cheered it.
    No, DeSantis did not sign a law banning all vaccine passports.

    He signed a law banning the Florida government from issuing any vaccine passports, and penalizing any businesses that require proof of COVID-19 vaccination from their patrons or customers with a loss of eligibility for government grants and contracts. It does not address businesses requiring this for other purposes, such as for their employees. And even for businesses that require it from patrons and customers, those that are willing to forgo government grants and contracts can still do it.

    I also cheer on that law. So far, I agree 100% with everything that Ron Paul has said on this matter that's been shared in this thread.

    But nobody has shown any instance of his stating that he would support a law banning entirely private, and not just pseudo-private, vaccine passports.

    Every single one of us knows that if a law doing that came up for a vote and he was in Congress, he would vote no.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; 05-14-2021 at 12:47 PM.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  35. #60
    @Brian4Liberty @Invisible Man

    The question becomes, whether a law is passed or not aside, if/when it comes down to it, whether by government dictate, or by the assumed protection of private businesses, if vaccine passports are required in order to attend to school, work, shop, travel, dental appointments, hardware stores, etc….

    Will you personally obtain a vaccine passport in order to carry out your daily lives?
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

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