View Poll Results: Do you support a government ban of private vaccine passports?

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  • Yes

    7 70.00%
  • No

    3 30.00%
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Thread: Do you support a government ban of private vaccine passports

  1. #1

    Do you support a government ban of private vaccine passports

    Do you support a government ban of privately issued vaccine passports that could be used by private companies and individuals?
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)



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  3. #2
    Government is responsible for the "plandemic".

    Government stole MY tax money and gave it to pharm/biotech corporations.

    Government is supposed to protect my freedoms, privacy, the Bill of Rights.

    And now you want to know if I would support a government ban?
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Government is responsible for the "plandemic".

    Government stole MY tax money and gave it to pharm/biotech corporations.

    Government is supposed to protect my freedoms, privacy, the Bill of Rights.

    And now you want to know if I would support a government ban?
    Sadly, there are many victims of all those things who would support that, even here at Ron Paul Forums I suspect, though I would be glad to see poll results that prove me wrong.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  5. #4
    Poll needs more options.

    In theory, I wouldn't support a ban - especially, at the federal level. But in reality, the government is so intertwined with business and commerce now. It's hard to imagine a scenario where a "vaccine passport" could remain strictly private. In theory, as a business owner, I should be able to decide to not do business with someone that doesn't live up to whatever parameters I decide. If I want them to provide proof of vaccination, I should be able to tell them to go to a competitor if they don't want to show it to me.

    But in reality, that's not how it would work. Because it would be in no business's interest to send away their customers over a virus that is not really that harmful, the only way a business would do this is if they could coerce their competitors to do the same. And in today's market, they will leverage government.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Poll needs more options.

    In theory, I wouldn't support a ban - especially, at the federal level. But in reality, the government is so intertwined with business and commerce now. It's hard to imagine a scenario where a "vaccine passport" could remain strictly private. In theory, as a business owner, I should be able to decide to not do business with someone that doesn't live up to whatever parameters I decide. If I want them to provide proof of vaccination, I should be able to tell them to go to a competitor if they don't want to show it to me.

    But in reality, that's not how it would work. Because it would be in no business's interest to send away their customers over a virus that is not really that harmful, the only way a business would do this is if they could coerce their competitors to do the same. And in today's market, they will leverage government.
    It's true, this is a theoretical question. And the Cato article that prompted all that consternation which in turn prompted this poll was also theoretical inasmuch as it advocated a level of government keeping its hands off things that we stand no chance of seeing in the world we now live in.

    But then, even in this world we now live in, would government banning private vaccine passports be a good thing? If somebody thinks it would, then they can answer yes and explain in a comment.

    That's my philosophy with polls. Keep the question and answers as black-and-white as possible, and let nuance be added in the comments where each individual will have their own take in ways that a poll option will never be able to capture.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    That's my philosophy with polls. Keep the question and answers as black-and-white as possible, and let nuance be added in the comments where each individual will have their own take in ways that a poll option will never be able to capture.
    Ok, Luntz. Lol.

    Well, then it's all in how you phrase the question to get the poll results you want, then.

    "Should the tyrant's pen be able to order how a private business decides which customers to do business with?"

    Or

    "Should corporations be prevented from banding together to violate the privacy of American consumers in the name of safety?"
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Ok, Luntz. Lol.

    Well, then it's all in how you phrase the question to get the poll results you want, then.

    "Should the tyrant's pen be able to order how a private business decides which customers to do business with?"

    Or

    "Should corporations be prevented from banding together to violate the privacy of American consumers in the name of safety?"
    Or...

    Do you support a business banning unvaccinated customers?

    Do you support a business that takes government contracts or money banning unvaccinated customers?

    Do you support a business that gets the majority of their revenue from government contracts banning unvaccinated customers?

    Do you support a business that gets all of their revenue from government contracts banning unvaccinated customers?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Ok, Luntz. Lol.

    Well, then it's all in how you phrase the question to get the poll results you want, then.

    "Should the tyrant's pen be able to order how a private business decides which customers to do business with?"

    Or

    "Should corporations be prevented from banding together to violate the privacy of American consumers in the name of safety?"
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Or...

    Do you support a business banning unvaccinated customers?

    Do you support a business that takes government contracts or money banning unvaccinated customers?

    Do you support a business that gets the majority of their revenue from government contracts banning unvaccinated customers?

    Do you support a business that gets all of their revenue from government contracts banning unvaccinated customers?
    Or:

    Do you still beat your wife?

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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Ok, Luntz. Lol.

    Well, then it's all in how you phrase the question to get the poll results you want, then.

    "Should the tyrant's pen be able to order how a private business decides which customers to do business with?"

    Or

    "Should corporations be prevented from banding together to violate the privacy of American consumers in the name of safety?"
    Those are not just different ways of asking the same question. They're different questions.

    As to whether or not corporations should be prevented from doing that, the crucial points for the purpose of this poll are not whether they should be prevented, but how and by whom.

    You can be against having government do that and still be for having it done by way of the economic constraints the market places on corporations.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Or...

    Do you support a business banning unvaccinated customers?

    Do you support a business that takes government contracts or money banning unvaccinated customers?

    Do you support a business that gets the majority of their revenue from government contracts banning unvaccinated customers?

    Do you support a business that gets all of their revenue from government contracts banning unvaccinated customers?
    Those are all good questions, and worthy of polls, but different than the one I'm asking.

    Many people, perhaps everyone here, would say that they do not support businesses doing that. But not everyone who doesn't support those actions by those businesses would support the government banning it, as opposed to letting the market sort it out. And that's the question.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; 05-12-2021 at 12:06 PM.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Do you support a government ban of privately issued vaccine passports that could be used by private companies and individuals?
    Define "Passport"..

    and what purpose it would have..

    I do not know of Private Ports.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  14. #12
    I would support a Government Definition of such as a "Novelty Item"" with NO Weight in law.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Define "Passport"..

    and what purpose it would have..

    I do not know of Private Ports.
    It's purpose would be up to those who use it to decide. Part of not banning it would be not banning any entirely private use of it by property owners with respect to whom they allow onto their property and under what conditions.

    Privatizing ports is a great idea. But I think that would require a separate poll question of its own.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; 05-12-2021 at 12:13 PM.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    I would support a Government Definition of such as a "Novelty Item"" with NO Weight in law.
    Yes, exactly. That's the kind of private vaccine passport the poll is asking about.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Those are not just different ways of asking the same question. They're different questions.
    Um... yeah - that's the point. Which answer do you want? If you want people to take your side, ask Q1. If you want them to take the opposite side, ask Q2.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  18. #16
    To those who don't like how the poll question is worded, what would be some alternatives that you would be willing to answer?
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Um... yeah - that's the point. Which answer do you want? If you want people to take your side, ask Q1. If you want them to take the opposite side, ask Q2.
    I want them to answer the question that I actually asked, and not some other question that's asking something entirely different, with whichever answer is their actual view. This is why I kept the poll question simple, direct, and without biased language--the opposite of the Luntz approach.

    It may be interesting to see their answers to those other questions too. But then we still wouldn't know their answer to this particular question.

    How about you? Even from your earlier post I can't tell if you're a yes or a no. You said that in theory you would say no, but then when you talked about the real world you never said what your answer is for this real world that you then went on to describe.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; 05-12-2021 at 12:24 PM.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Yes, exactly. That's the kind of private vaccine passport the poll is asking about.
    But that is not being proposed in the "real" world.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    But that is not being proposed in the "real" world.
    It was proposed in an article by someone from the Cato Institute that has a bunch of libertarians upset.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    It was proposed in an article by someone from the Cato Institute that has a bunch of libertarians upset.
    ID 2020 is what IS being proposed.. the Cato Circle Jerk is irrelevant. Nothing but distracting mental masturbation.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  24. #21
    This poll was was brought to you today in part by the wonderful generosity of the Koch brothers...*



    ETA: Legal disclaimer. This was written as a joke. I have no idea who our benevolent benefactors are.
    Last edited by RJB; 05-12-2021 at 02:17 PM.
    ...

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    ID 2020 is what IS being proposed.. the Cato Circle Jerk is irrelevant. Nothing but distracting mental masturbation.
    Perhaps. But others here were criticizing the position of that Cato article, and I thought it would be helpful to nail down just what position they were intending to take.

    My attempt to do that via poll so far hasn't been very successful.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  26. #23
    As far as I know there are already federal laws against this as this would be in direct violation of all those laws that protect the privacy of peoples health information from everyone .
    Do something Danke

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    As far as I know there are already federal laws against this as this would be in direct violation of all those laws that protect the privacy of peoples health information from everyone .
    You're saying there's a law in the US that prohibits private organizations from requiring that people provide them with proof of certain immunizations as a prerequisite for participating in their functions? I'm pretty sure there isn't. There are all sorts of organizations, both public and private, that do that all the time with the government's blessing.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    You're saying there's a law in the US that prohibits private organizations from requiring that people provide them with proof of certain immunizations as a prerequisite for participating in their functions? I'm pretty sure there isn't. There are all sorts of organizations, both public and private, that do that all the time with the government's blessing.
    In my home state I think only I , my physician and authorized health attendants ( Nurses etc) are able to access my records with the exception of HIV and venereal if I recall. With the exceptions of child abuse etc I think that all is in sections 34 and 16. Not really my kind of reading , but yeah pretty sure I can refuse .
    Do something Danke

  30. #26
    I'm thinking the reason more states havnt planned already to ban these is because many already have laws in place preventing it . States can pass whatever they like but they are all supposed to also follow whatever is in the HIPAA fed law too which I have not read from general lack of interest .
    Last edited by oyarde; 05-12-2021 at 03:11 PM.
    Do something Danke

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    In my home state I think only I , my physician and authorized health attendants ( Nurses etc) are able to access my records with the exception of HIV and venereal if I recall. With the exceptions of child abuse etc I think that all is in sections 34 and 16. Not really my kind of reading , but yeah pretty sure I can refuse .
    Sure you can refuse. And private organizations can refuse to allow you to participate in various functions of theirs when you do.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Sure you can refuse. And private organizations can refuse to allow you to participate in various functions of theirs when you do.
    I dont belong to any private organizations but cant think of any locally with health discrimination rules. Doubt any would stand up if challenged unless it could be demonstrated they were required such as a hospital employee or something . Whole new area for lawyers to make money on opening up I imagine.
    Do something Danke

  33. #29
    One of the real problems I see with govt and other shills on all this is they needed a better plague to terrify people into doing what they wanted.
    Do something Danke

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I dont belong to any private organizations but cant think of any locally with health discrimination rules. Doubt any would stand up if challenged unless it could be demonstrated they were required such as a hospital employee or something . Whole new area for lawyers to make money on opening up I imagine.
    This is not a whole new area. It's been a common practice for decades.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; 05-12-2021 at 03:29 PM.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

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