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Thread: Amash: Libertarians and progressives can be great allies...

  1. #1

    Amash: Libertarians and progressives can be great allies...

    Disgraced former Congressman Justin Amash of Michigan has formed an alliance with Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) and is hosting events with the far-left ‘Squad’ member.

    He proclaimed that “libertarians and progressives can be great allies” in a social media post thanking Ocasio-Cortez for addressing students at the University of Chicago on Thursday.



    Ocasio-Cortez is pushing one of the most dangerous agendas in legislative history that would totally decimate what is left of libertarian and conservative values in America. Amash is helping her goals forward by giving her a captive audience of indoctrinated students to work over with her socialist rhetoric.
    https://bigleaguepolitics.com/disgra...-great-allies/



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  3. #2
    Libertarians and progs can be great allies in the cause of decentralization, once the progs realize they'll never become God Emperor.

    AOC may be an idiot, but she has voted against all other members of her party on corrupt stimulus bills, and wants to disband Homeland Security. So if Amash wants to use her to get under the defenses of those being indoctrinated, why shouldn't he use the useful idiot who's just principled enough not to contradict him when he's right?

    Why the vitriol? I'm not feeling it. But then, I never got mad at him for telling Trump to pound sand.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 05-07-2021 at 08:26 AM.
    Because if someone doesn't "feel comfortable" with someone in this brave new middle school Official Culture, a death sentence is perfectly reasonable.

  4. #3
    Amash sounds a lot like Ron Paul there.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  5. #4
    While Trump opposed the constitution, funded Globalists and Operation Warp Speed, and amassed the largest astronomical debt in history and given passes for it, Amash’s Freedom Index Score remained up in the 90 percentile.

    Like Ron Paul has said, find ways to change the hearts and minds of the American People. AOC is well liked among the left, maybe Justin can find in-roads to help turn them around, rather than continue the great divide reset.

    But, passes galore to Trump the NYLib, while throwing Justin completely under the buss, seems the popular thing to do. Because Statists can not stand or tolerate for liberty to thrive.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  6. #5
    "Disgraced", huh?

    Funny, because to me, he was able to escape Washington with some grace still intact. You almost NEVER see that.

    As to the point of allies with progressives, I think there is obviously some overlap there. Ron Paul was able to capitalize on that overlap more than anyone. If this author thinks libertarian ideas are so weak that students can be "worked over" by a genius like AOC, then we're in worse shape than we thought. I think it's quite the opposite. The students attending the event may have recognized an opening to work with the left on areas where we align (there are many), and an opening for them to see us as having reasonable disagreements on the areas where we disagree (again, there are many).
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  7. #6
    There's a reason both statist parties hate libertarians. They want power, the apparatchiks of both parties are on an inside track to get it, and they want all the power concentrated where they can get at it.

    When a young prog realizes he or she will never be God Emperor, and looks around his University of Chicago class at some of the sociopaths who actually might, the Ninth and Tenth Amendments start looking pretty good. Let a libertarian remind them that the most successful applications of socialism through history have been on the scale of Nordic countries about the size of certain U.S. states, and they see the advantage of smaller ponds, and more than one chance to be the "big fish".

    Give me states that are allowed to be substantially different, and freedom to choose between them, and I'll declare libertarian victory.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 05-07-2021 at 09:11 AM.
    Because if someone doesn't "feel comfortable" with someone in this brave new middle school Official Culture, a death sentence is perfectly reasonable.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    There's a reason both statist parties hate libertarians. They want power, the apparatchiks of both parties are on an inside track to get it, and they want all the power concentrated where they can get at it.

    When a young prog realizes he or she will never be God Emperor, and looks around his University of Chicago class at some of the sociopaths who actually might, the Ninth and Tenth Amendments start looking pretty good. Let a libertarian remind them that the most successful applications of socialism through history have been on the scale of Nordic countries about the size of certain U.S. states, and they see the advantage of smaller ponds, and more than one chance to be the "big fish".
    + rep!

    I think those young progs spend a little too much time thinking about what they want to happen - and almost zero time thinking about the bureaucratic institution that would need the power to make it happen. In other words, they think about what government should do for them and almost never consider what government is doing to them - until they see it front and center. Ron Paul was adept at making that linkage for them.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  9. #8
    Good for Justin. Hopefully AOC learned something new through this encounter.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    + rep!

    I think those young progs spend a little too much time thinking about what they want to happen - and almost zero time thinking about the bureaucratic institution that would need the power to make it happen. In other words, they think about what government should do for them and almost never consider what government is doing to them - until they see it front and center. Ron Paul was adept at making that linkage for them.
    Big picture goals are often shared across the political spectrum, the devil is in the details (objectives, strategies, tactics).

    A goal of everyone having a decent living is shared across the political spectrum.

    To meet that goal, a free market person would have the objective of high employment with good wages. A progressive may have an objective of UBI and free stuff provided by government.

    The root problem is which of those will work in the long run in the real world. The truth of the matter is that the government UBI-welfare solution works against the goal in the long run, due a variety of factors including economics, human incentives, moral hazards, power madness, corruption, political graft, etc. If a libertarian can enlighten a progressive to this knowledge, then progress can be made.

    Ignorance is the enemy.
    Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 05-07-2021 at 09:46 AM.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  12. #10
    Hope he got her to buy lunch .
    Do something Danke

  13. #11
    These threads are great! You get to watch Trumpers say that Progressives and Libertarians can't be friends. Then on other threads you get to watch Progressives say Trumpers and Libertarians can't be friends.

    *And yes I know there are a lot more than those two groups on this forum, but limiting it to those two groups gets my point across.
    ...

  14. #12
    Unless these progressives are Grover Cleveland Democrats, I will not be convinced of this.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Good for Justin. Hopefully AOC learned something new through this encounter.
    With how much of a dunderhead she is, I'm pretty sure everything that she was told went right over her head.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    These threads are great! You get to watch Trumpers say that Progressives and Libertarians can't be friends. Then on other threads you get to watch Progressives say Trumpers and Libertarians can't be friends.

    *And yes I know there are a lot more than those two groups on this forum, but limiting it to those two groups gets my point across.
    The differences being:

    1. When dems do it, they are evil bastards. When repubs do it, it is great. Take OWS, "the miracle", for instance.

    2. Dems do not hide it. Repubs lie and pretend. For example: Repubs fight tooth and nail to put Amash 2020 and Ron Paul 2008/2012 under the bus, in exchange for Romney/Trump.

    3. When I speak to democrats about liberty/freedom, they like the idea, but consider me an extremist. When I speak to republicans about liberty/freedom, they tell me we need security, and consider me an extremist.

    4. See #3: Democrats have clue to what I am talking about, it is like talking to a brick. Republicans supposedly comprehend what I am talking about, but then I am hated and shunned.




    So, after well over a dozen years, hundreds of freedom/liberty meetings, countless organizing efforts, so many speeches that I lost count, working elections year after year, I begin to just worry about myself.

    Ron and Justin, you are clearly suited for this, so I fully support your endeavors ;-)
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    The differences being:

    1. When dems do it, they are evil bastards. When repubs do it, it is great. Take OWS, "the miracle", for instance.

    2. Dems do not hide it. Repubs lie and pretend. For example: Repubs fight tooth and nail to put Amash 2020 and Ron Paul 2008/2012 under the bus, in exchange for Romney/Trump.

    3. When I speak to democrats about liberty/freedom, they like the idea, but consider me an extremist. When I speak to republicans about liberty/freedom, they tell me we need security, and consider me an extremist.

    4. See #3: Democrats have clue to what I am talking about, it is like talking to a brick. Republicans supposedly comprehend what I am talking about, but then I am hated and shunned.




    So, after well over a dozen years, hundreds of freedom/liberty meetings, countless organizing efforts, so many speeches that I lost count, working elections year after year, I begin to just worry about myself.

    Ron and Justin, you are clearly suited for this, so I fully support your endeavors ;-)
    Meh, I am not biased. I get along with both. I even get along with agorists, and those guys are really *annoying.

    Just kidding. You rock.
    ...

  18. #16
    It also depends on who you talk to. We claim to dislike collectivism, yet here we are doing it to Progs and Trumpers. I will however bad mouth neocons and SJWs.

    I've met neocon Trumpers who I had little in common with, and others who lined up well with my beliefs. I really got along well with Kucinich guys. We agreed on a lot of sources of problems but differed on solutions, however the SJWs are insane.
    ...



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  20. #17
    LOL at Leftarians.

    The Great Evil Cheeto can roll back taxes, cut regulations, pull us out of corrupt UN agreements, remove us from economy destroying "climate" agreements, promote sound manufacturing, advance sound money people to the Fed board, hold the line on the 2nd amendment, rollback EPA fatwas so that I can still buy a gas powered car or truck or woodstove and not sign executive orders that have bankrupted me and put me out of work.

    But even grudging support or acknowledgement of these facts gets an argument and eye rolls and accusations of secretly blowing Trump and "Trump Humping".

    But I'm supposed to "reach across the aisle" and ally myself with the communists?

    Have you people lost your ever $#@!ing minds?

    Lenin had a name for people like that: "useful idiots".

    Ya'll better internalize something real $#@!ing fast: the Marxist left wants you dead.

    OK, you got that, DEAD...

    Not politically dead, not metaphorically dead, but for real, rotting corpse in the mass grave, dead.

    And they will say or do whatever it takes to achieve the power to accomplish that goal, including lying, bullshitting and obfuscating at levels the Great Evil Cheeto could only dream about.

    Jesus Christ...ally myself with the $#@!ing Marxist mob...I'll retire to Bedlam first.
    Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings. - Heinrich Heine 1823

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    "Disgraced", huh?
    War is peace.

    Freedom is slavery.

    Throwing away your principles to suck Trump's toes is actually the noble thing to do.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    In conclusion THE ONLY WAY BIDEN IS GOING TO SEE THE INSIDE OF THE OVAL OFFICE IS VIA THE A WHITEHOUSE PUBLIC TOUR

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    Meh, I am not biased. I get along with both. I even get along with agorists, and those guys are really *annoying.

    Just kidding. You rock.
    Get my PM?

    You're cool too, RJB
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    LOL at Leftarians.

    The Great Evil Cheeto can roll back taxes, cut regulations, pull us out of corrupt UN agreements, remove us from economy destroying "climate" agreements, promote sound manufacturing, advance sound money people to the Fed board, hold the line on the 2nd amendment, rollback EPA fatwas so that I can still buy a gas powered car or truck or woodstove and not sign executive orders that have bankrupted me and put me out of work.

    But even grudging support or acknowledgement of these facts gets an argument and eye rolls and accusations of secretly blowing Trump and "Trump Humping".

    But I'm supposed to "reach across the aisle" and ally myself with the communists?

    Have you people lost your ever $#@!ing minds?

    Lenin had a name for people like that: "useful idiots".

    Ya'll better internalize something real $#@!ing fast: the Marxist left wants you dead.

    OK, you got that, DEAD...

    Not politically dead, not metaphorically dead, but for real, rotting corpse in the mass grave, dead.

    And they will say or do whatever it takes to achieve the power to accomplish that goal, including lying, bullshitting and obfuscating at levels the Great Evil Cheeto could only dream about.

    Jesus Christ...ally myself with the $#@!ing Marxist mob...I'll retire to Bedlam first.

    Can't argue with that. But then, I'm on this rock once, and I'll be damned if I let others get me down, or stop me from living and having fun. Thus being an Agorist. It really works.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  24. #21
    This guy lost his mind a long time ago. He used to be awesome but apparently drank the swamp water the longer he stayed in DC.

    One should never give an audience of young impressionable minds to a nutjob commie imbecile like AOC. Putting her on a pedastool and lending her credibility is a strategic error. But since Amash couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper sack, this is hardly surprising.

    There is nothing in common and she should be fought, or ignored, at every opportunity.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Can't argue with that. But then, I'm on this rock once, and I'll be damned if I let others get me down, or stop me from living and having fun. Thus being an Agorist. It really works.
    You can too argue with it, because it's make believe nonsense that somebody dreamed up as a pretext for making this all about standing against everyone and everything associated with Team Blue in every context on every issue, no matter what, rather than actually standing for anything substantive and justifiable.

    If somebody had come here 10 years ago and called Ron Paul a useful idiot who had lost his mind for welcoming Dennis Kucinich's and Bernie Sanders' support for his audit the Fed. bill, claiming that those guys and everyone who supports them wanted to kill Ron Paul and us, they would rightly have been unanimously castigated as trolls by every core member of the forum.

    Consider the tortured train of logic these people follow:
    1. I once saw a tweet from some no-name yahoo I'd never heard of who has no effect on my life vent about how he'd be glad to see every Trump supporter die.
    2. Said yahoo was probably a marxist. Because after all, why else would anyone say that about champions of free market capitalism like Trump supporters.
    3. Therefore, all marxists want to kill all supporters of Trump and free market capitalism.
    4. A lot of marxists support Democrats.
    5. Therefore all Democrats want all to kill all supporters of Trump and free market capitalism.
    6. Therefore AOC and everyone who supports her or even respects her and doesn't want her dead wants to kill all supporters of Trump and free market capitalism.
    7. This desire to kill supporters of free market capitalism is the only thing any of these Democrats want. There is no other agenda any of them have.
    8. Therefore, any time supporters of free market capitalism have an opportunity to accomplish something that advances their cause with the help of a Democrat, you should refuse your help, because whatever that thing is must actually not be good, but instead part of the secret marxist plan to kill you.

    And somewhere in there you can throw in that this monolithic entity of "marxists" sees free market capitalism as endemic to whiteness, so it's actually all white people whom they want to kill. So when Ron Paul made alliances with them, he was unwittingly supporting white genocide.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; 05-07-2021 at 02:03 PM.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Can't argue with that. But then, I'm on this rock once, and I'll be damned if I let others get me down, or stop me from living and having fun. Thus being an Agorist. It really works.
    It's a gorgeous day here in NH, cool sunny and clear, my daughter and I rode the MCs to our local favorite diner for a nice brunch and ride.

    Life is good brother, I agree.

    Everything about that experience, the Marxist left wants to take from me, everything from the relationship my daughter and I have, down to meat in my sausage and eggs and the gas in my motorcycle.

    $#@! them, in every complete and total instance.

    The Marxist left is a threat to life and limb and should shunned and rejected at every level.
    Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings. - Heinrich Heine 1823

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    1. I once saw a tweet from some no-name yahoo I'd never heard of who has no effect on my life vent about how he'd be glad to see every Trump supporter die.
    Bull$#@!.

    I will flood this thread with people who said exactly that, who are NOT no name yahoos, but rather people of influence, power and/or authority.

    They have said this about white people as well, over and over and over again with no repercussions or pushback.

    But I'm supposed to ignore this, and give it a pass, because...I guess...they don't mean it, right?

    $#@! that and $#@! them.

    Points 2 through 8 are now invalid, since you started the whole thing with an untruth.

    And somewhere in there you can throw in that this monolithic entity of "marxists" sees free market capitalism as endemic to whiteness, so it's actually all white people whom they want to kill. So when Ron Paul made alliances with them, he was unwittingly supporting white genocide.
    Ron gets a pass from me for two reasons:

    A - He truly is a gentle and peaceful man, not a sour pissed off son of bitch like me.

    B - When he was making those statements, the Marxist left was not as emboldened and brazen as they are now. They sense victory and the mask is coming off.

    You Christian New World Orderists are not welcome in their new order.

    You're as dead as me if they succeed.
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 05-07-2021 at 02:17 PM.
    Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings. - Heinrich Heine 1823



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I will flood this thread with people who said exactly that, who are NOT no name yahoos, but rather people of influence, power and/or authority.
    I'll call your bluff on that.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    It's a gorgeous day here in NH, cool sunny and clear, my daughter and I rode the MCs to our local favorite diner for a nice brunch and ride.

    Life is good brother, I agree.

    Everything about that experience, the Marxist left wants to take from me, everything from the relationship my daughter and I have, down to meat in my sausage and eggs and the gas in my motorcycle.

    $#@! them, in every complete and total instance.

    The Marxist left is a threat to life and limb and should shunned and rejected at every level.
    Sometime just before election season I was standing in line at the grocery store. Hearing the two folks talking stoopid crap right in front of me, the overweight lady in raggy sweat bottoms and the one in front of her were clearly far-left libs. So out of nowhere I blurted out "I'm pro-gun". She turned to me and said something like "I wished they'd ban every one of them!". So then I said "if only that poor college girl had a gun in her purse, she never would have been raped by that $#@! guy with a knife." The lady thought for a minute and then said "yeah, maybe you're right".

    No matter where I go or who I'm with, I activism.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    An Agorist Primer

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Sometime just before election season I was standing in line at the grocery store. Hearing the two folks talking stoopid crap right in front of me, the overweight lady in raggy sweat bottoms and the one in front of her were clearly far-left libs. So out of nowhere I blurted out "I'm pro-gun". She turned to me and said something like "I wished they'd ban every one of them!". So then I said "if only that poor college girl had a gun in her purse, she never would have been raped by that $#@! guy with a knife." The lady thought for a minute and then said "yeah, maybe you're right".

    No matter where I go or who I'm with, I activism.
    I do the same.

    Was nice to see three other folks open carrying in the diner today as well.
    Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings. - Heinrich Heine 1823

  32. #28

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I do the same.
    So you do meet people who are dead wrong about government, but don't want you dead.

    Remember the early days of this forum, and the talk of brushfires in people's minds? They've been working hard at drying out the tinder since then. The grass is definitely browner on the other side of a bunch of fences.
    Because if someone doesn't "feel comfortable" with someone in this brave new middle school Official Culture, a death sentence is perfectly reasonable.

  34. #30
    Depends maybe on what is important to you . I have no need for these so called progressives and there is nothing at the top of the agenda they have of interest or benefit to me. They do have many things that I oppose.
    Do something Danke

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