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Thread: The breathing expert who convicted Derek Chauvin

  1. #1

    The breathing expert who convicted Derek Chauvin

    Anyone who still has "reasonable doubt" in this case needs to watch these videos. Expert testimony showed convincingly that fentynol did not kill George Floyd.



    And then there's this testimony.



    "Three minutes after Floyd takes his last breath, the knee remains on the kneck. Two minutes after officers can no longer find a pulse the knee remains on the kneck."

    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
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    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Expert testimony showed convincingly that fentynol did not kill George Floyd.
    Do you think that anyone actually thought that fentanyl killed him? Personally, it seemed to me that mentioning fentanyl was more of just a way to say 'he was a drug addict, who cares'
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
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  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Do you think that anyone actually thought that fentanyl killed him?
    He had a lethal dose of fentanyl, and also a lot of methamphetamines in his system. When you combine meth with other lethal drugs, the amount that it takes to kill you drops.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Personally, it seemed to me that mentioning fentanyl was more of just a way to say 'he was a drug addict, who cares'
    It was the left-wing media that put that idea in your head.

    For me, I shifted more toward that attitude after I found out he robbed a pregnant woman at gunpoint and put the gun to her stomach and threatened to shoot her.
    Last edited by dannno; 04-21-2021 at 12:52 AM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Expert testimony showed convincingly that fentynol did not kill George Floyd.
    There are also "experts" who claim building 7 came down due to the damage from falling debris from the towers.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    He had a lethal dose of fentanyl, and also a lot of methamphetamines in his system. When you combine meth with other lethal drugs, the amount that it takes to kill you drops.
    Cool story bro, but it doesn't have anything to do with whether or not it actually killed him.


    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    For me, I shifted more toward that attitude after I found out he robbed a pregnant woman at gunpoint and put the gun to her stomach and threatened to shoot her.
    A crime for which he was convicted more than a decade ago, subsequently served his sentence, was paroled, and had not reoffended.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    In conclusion THE ONLY WAY BIDEN IS GOING TO SEE THE INSIDE OF THE OVAL OFFICE IS VIA THE A WHITEHOUSE PUBLIC TOUR

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Cool story bro, but it doesn't have anything to do with whether or not it actually killed him.
    Uh, no, it quite literally does. What happened to Floyd is exactly what would happen to somebody who OD's on fentanyl. Another expert witness said that if they had found him dead in an apartment, they would have ruled it an overdose.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    A crime for which he was convicted more than a decade ago, subsequently served his sentence, was paroled, and had not reoffended.
    Uh ya, but you know that story about how he was just being pulled over for passing a $20 bill? That isn't true, either. He passed the $20, then the clerk noticed it was fake and asked him for the cigs back. He wouldn't give them back, so the clerk tried to get them back and Floyd physically threatened him before he left. Doesn't sound like he has changed... the point is he isn't a hero who we are all going to miss, he was probably just going to keep doing the same $#@!.
    Last edited by dannno; 04-21-2021 at 02:01 AM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  8. #7
    Seems legit.
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  9. #8
    Fentanyl stopped the breathing of somebody close to me. Permanently. Young too.

    It happens suddenly.

    It happens frequently enough that there are billboards in all major cities telling you what to do if it happens. They are advertising drugs on the billboards that can mediate overdoses..



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  11. #9
    Personally, I will not miss St. Floyd or Officer Chauvin.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    There are also "experts" who claim building 7 came down due to the damage from falling debris from the towers.
    And there were other experts that said the opposite. You're grasping at straws here. Show me an expert that rebutted the breathing testimony.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by The Northbreather View Post
    Fentanyl stopped the breathing of somebody close to me. Permanently. Young too.

    It happens suddenly.

    It happens frequently enough that there are billboards in all major cities telling you what to do if it happens. They are advertising drugs on the billboards that can mediate overdoses..
    Sure. That doesn't mean that A) that was the cause in this case and B) there wasn't a contributing cause. Chauvin had his knee on Floyds next two minutes after Floyd didn't have a pulse. Explain that one to me.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  14. #12
    He says he's measured respiratory rate "millions of times". He must be ancient, like 500 years old
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
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    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Uh, no, it quite literally does. What happened to Floyd is exactly what would happen to somebody who OD's on fentanyl. Another expert witness said that if they had found him dead in an apartment, they would have ruled it an overdose.
    Is this what you are referring to?

    http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/2104/09/ip.02.html
    NELSON: Let's take the police out of this. And I'm going to ask you a hypothetical. Let's assume you found Mr. Floyd dead in his residence, no police involvement, no drugs, right, the only thing you found would be these facts about his heart. What would you conclude to be the cause of death?

    THOMAS: In that very narrow set of circumstances, I would probably conclude that the cause of death was his heart disease.


    That's testimony from the forensic pathologist. Based on all of the circumstance in of what really happened she determined it was a homicide.

    That medical examiner said that with all of the other circumstances involved he would not have ruled it an overdose. If you see someone alone in an apartment with blundt force trauma to the head and blood on the side of the tub you might rule it a slip and fall. But if there is video of someone hitting someone else over the head you wouldn't rule the death a slip an fall. Here is video testimony.



    The first few minutes explains why the circumstances surrounding the death cannot be ignored.


    Prosecutor: So on the manner of death it indicates homice. What does homicide mean to you as a medical examiner?

    Medical examiner: So as a medical examiner we use the term homicide when the actions of other people are involved in an individuals death. It's one of five manners of death that we can choose from. The others be accident, suicide, natural or undetermined. Homicide in my world is a medical term. It is not a legal term. From a vital statistics and public health point of view, it's critical that a medical examiner fill out a manner of death on every death certificate because, from a public health point of view, you want to know how many people committed suicide in your state. How many people died of accidents in your state. So it's a key piece of public health data, but we don't use it as a legal term.

    Prosector: Would you tell from your point of view as a medical examiner, what does natural mean.

    Medical examiner: Natural means the person died exclusively of natural diseases.
    .
    .
    .
    Prosecutor: And if we look at an accidental cause of death. Is a drug overdose what could be an accidental cause of death?

    Medical Examiner: Most drug overdoses are accidental causes of death. Some are suicides. But yes. We do regard most drug overdoses because the person didn't intend to die, we do regard those as accidents.

    Prosecutor: And we know what suicide is. What does undetermined mean?

    Medical Examiner: Undetermined means that despite the best efforts of law enforcement, the medical examiner, the medical examiners investigators, we simply never could pin down the circumstances under which the individual died.

    Prosecutor: Now in Mr. Floyd's case you listed the immediate cause of death as cardio-pulmonary arrest, complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression.

    Medical Examiner: Correct.

    Prosecutor: What does cardio-pulmonary arrest mean?

    Medical Examiner: That's really just fancy medical lingo for the heart and lungs stopped. The heart...no pulse no breathing.

    Prosecutor: So with the term complicating, am I right in understanding that this term means "Occuring in the setting of?"

    Medical Examiner: Yes.

    Prosecutor: On in other words, cardio-pulmonary arrest, occuring in the setting of law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression.

    Medical Examiner: Correct.


    An entire transcript can be found here:

    http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/2104/09/cnr.11.html
    Last edited by jmdrake; 04-21-2021 at 08:34 AM.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    He says he's measured respiratory rate "millions of times". He must be ancient, like 500 years old
    Yeah, I caught that, too. He'd have to measure respiratory rates 137 times a day - every day - for 40 years in order for his testimony to be accurate. Or maybe it was just a figure of speech.

    Regardless, I'm about 99% positive that Floyd wouldn't have stopped breathing had he not had friendly officers pinning him down for swindling a pack of smokes. I'm not sure how anyone can come to a different conclusion.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Regardless, I'm about 99% positive that Floyd wouldn't have stopped breathing had he not had friendly officers pinning him down for swindling a pack of smokes. I'm not sure how anyone can come to a different conclusion.
    Probably so. Still not sure how that amounts to a 2nd degree murder charge.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Probably so. Still not sure how that amounts to a 2nd degree murder charge.
    Yeah, I'm a little confused as to how they convicted on all three charges, but it doesn't really bother me. If this makes someone less likely to become a cop, I'd say it's a fantastic success. "You want to enforce the edicts of the state?? What if they throw you under the bus and you're not personally protected?? Still want to do it?"

    The only thing that really irks me about this whole thing is the ridiculous race angle the media is taking. But cops paying the price for being state tools?? Excellent!
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Yeah, I'm a little confused as to how they convicted on all three charges, but it doesn't really bother me. If this makes someone less likely to become a cop, I'd say it's a fantastic success. "You want to enforce the edicts of the state?? What if they throw you under the bus and you're not personally protected?? Still want to do it?"

    The only thing that really irks me about this whole thing is the ridiculous race angle the media is taking. But cops paying the price for being state tools?? Excellent!
    He's probably done plenty of other $#@! to deserve it. To borrow a quote from Dannno

    Doesn't sound like he has changed... the point is he isn't a hero who we are all going to miss, he was probably just going to keep doing the same $#@!.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Probably so. Still not sure how that amounts to a 2nd degree murder charge.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Yeah, I'm a little confused as to how they convicted on all three charges, but it doesn't really bother me. If this makes someone less likely to become a cop, I'd say it's a fantastic success. "You want to enforce the edicts of the state?? What if they throw you under the bus and you're not personally protected?? Still want to do it?"

    The only thing that really irks me about this whole thing is the ridiculous race angle the media is taking. But cops paying the price for being state tools?? Excellent!
    Good question! This is what I found.

    https://apnews.com/article/derek-cha...61fcc0bef0a23d

    The second-degree murder charge requires prosecutors to prove Chauvin caused Floyd’s death while committing or trying to commit a felony — in this case, third-degree assault. Prosecutors don’t have to prove that Chauvin was the sole cause of Floyd’s death — only that his conduct was a “substantial causal factor.” The manslaughter charge has a lower bar, requiring proof that Chauvin caused Floyd’s death through negligence that created an unreasonable risk, and consciously took the chance of causing severe injury or death.

    That's why there was the battle over whether the knee restrait was within policy or not.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Uh, no, it quite literally does. What happened to Floyd is exactly what would happen to somebody who OD's on fentanyl.
    When you OD on fentanyl, a cop materializes above you and puts his entire body weight on your neck?


    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Another expert witness said that if they had found him dead in an apartment, they would have ruled it an overdose.
    Already covered above.


    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Uh ya, but you know that story about how he was just being pulled over for passing a $20 bill? That isn't true, either. He passed the $20, then the clerk noticed it was fake and asked him for the cigs back. He wouldn't give them back, so the clerk tried to get them back and Floyd physically threatened him before he left. Doesn't sound like he has changed... the point is he isn't a hero who we are all going to miss, he was probably just going to keep doing the same $#@!.
    Which of Floyd's actions unpersoned him such that anyone was entitled to execute him at any time?
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    In conclusion THE ONLY WAY BIDEN IS GOING TO SEE THE INSIDE OF THE OVAL OFFICE IS VIA THE A WHITEHOUSE PUBLIC TOUR

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Do you think that anyone actually thought that fentanyl killed him? Personally, it seemed to me that mentioning fentanyl was more of just a way to say 'he was a drug addict, who cares'
    Didn't that come from the original death certificate based on an autopsy by a qualified medical examiner whom we have no reason to think had a secret agenda of making people not care because Floyd was a drug addict?

    I'm not saying that should be the last word on it. But it's not nothing.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Good question! This is what I found.

    https://apnews.com/article/derek-cha...61fcc0bef0a23d

    The second-degree murder charge requires prosecutors to prove Chauvin caused Floyd’s death while committing or trying to commit a felony — in this case, third-degree assault. Prosecutors don’t have to prove that Chauvin was the sole cause of Floyd’s death — only that his conduct was a “substantial causal factor.” The manslaughter charge has a lower bar, requiring proof that Chauvin caused Floyd’s death through negligence that created an unreasonable risk, and consciously took the chance of causing severe injury or death.

    That's why there was the battle over whether the knee restrait was within policy or not.
    With that logic, wouldn't every 3rd degree assault that results in a death, be a 2nd degree murder charge? It seems like a legal loophole to upgrade it from 3rd to 2nd degree murder, and not really what 2nd degree was intended for, especially when 3rd degree murder exists as its own thing.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    With that logic, wouldn't every 3rd degree assault that results in a death, be a 2nd degree murder charge? It seems like a legal loophole to upgrade it from 3rd to 2nd degree murder, and not really what 2nd degree was intended for, especially when 3rd degree murder exists as its own thing.
    You're talking about the "merger doctrine" and yeah...that is a problem. There has to be some element that is different from the underlying offense and the larger offense. (Easy example, it's possible to steal someone's car without killing him). In this case the underlying crime might be "violating police procedures during an arrest." I dunno. I need some more info on that. I'll try to look up the Chauvin charging document when I have time.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Didn't that come from the original death certificate based on an autopsy by a qualified medical examiner whom we have no reason to think had a secret agenda of making people not care because Floyd was a drug addict?
    No. The cause of death on the original was "Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression"
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    In conclusion THE ONLY WAY BIDEN IS GOING TO SEE THE INSIDE OF THE OVAL OFFICE IS VIA THE A WHITEHOUSE PUBLIC TOUR

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    No. The cause of death on the original was "Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression"
    That's right. To be honest, I don't understand exactly what the significance of that language is as far as how the word "complicating" is used. But it seemed like, based on the way that cause of death was immediately responded to by people on both sides afterwards, was that everyone took it to mean that some other factor caused him to have cardiopulmonary arrest besides the subdual, restraint, and neck compression, and that those factors made it worse, but weren't the sole cause. The death certificate didn't say what specifically caused the cardiopulmonary arrest, but did give that as the cause of death and then list all those drugs in his system. That was the reason that the Floyd family got a second autopsy.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; 04-21-2021 at 11:30 AM.



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  29. #25
    Although this wasn't SCOTUS, political climate also plays a big part in highly publicized cases like this without necessarily disagreeing with the premise behind OP argument.
    True sometimes facts can be overwhelming. But generally in politicized cases technical experts, juries and even facts get managed sometimes and media reporting highlights/lowlights certain narratives according to the need of the hour. There reports that POTUS was involved in planning for preparing America for this case's verdict.
    Part of the credit for bringing America to this state also goes to 4 years of Trump, his social justice/minorities outreach/Blexit campaigns and generally liberal progressive outlook had a major role in remaking of The Right and GOP and hence of America.

    If technical experts testimonies alone can decide such police abuse cases involving minorities, some driving expert's testimony could have led to accountability of elite cops who shot and killed unarmed black mother Miriam Carey near Capitol roadblock in DC in the pre-Trump era. That did not happen because political climate in America was different then.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    That's right. To be honest, I don't understand exactly what the significance of that language is as far as how the word "complicating" is used.
    I think it's written that way so as not to directly ascribe blame.

    My understanding is that it means that the actions of law enforcement are the most significant factor but not the only factor involved.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    In conclusion THE ONLY WAY BIDEN IS GOING TO SEE THE INSIDE OF THE OVAL OFFICE IS VIA THE A WHITEHOUSE PUBLIC TOUR

  31. #27
    I honestly don’t care. Am I wrong for feeling this way? One piece of trash met another piece of trash and now they are both off the streets. My life remains unchanged. I didn’t have the slightest emotional attachment to either side.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    With that logic, wouldn't every 3rd degree assault that results in a death, be a 2nd degree murder charge? It seems like a legal loophole to upgrade it from 3rd to 2nd degree murder, and not really what 2nd degree was intended for, especially when 3rd degree murder exists as its own thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    You're talking about the "merger doctrine" and yeah...that is a problem. There has to be some element that is different from the underlying offense and the larger offense. (Easy example, it's possible to steal someone's car without killing him). In this case the underlying crime might be "violating police procedures during an arrest." I dunno. I need some more info on that. I'll try to look up the Chauvin charging document when I have time.
    Okay. It turns out that Minnesota doesn't use the "merger doctrine."

    See: https://lawprofessors.typepad.com/ev...rges-that.html

    So...let's see how this works. If you don't intend to do anyone harm, but you kill them, third degree murder.

    If you intend to assault them, but accidentally kill them, second degree murder.

    If you intend to kill them, but it's in the heat of the moment, still second degree murder.

    If you kill someone with pre-meditation, first degree murder.

    At least that's how I see it.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Sure. That doesn't mean that A) that was the cause in this case and B) there wasn't a contributing cause. Chauvin had his knee on Floyds next two minutes after Floyd didn't have a pulse. Explain that one to me.
    Listen bro. I’m definitely not a fan of the cops, but I will explain it to you since you asked.

    It is possible that the dude died from overdosing while chauvin put his knee on him. Fact is that we will never actually know the cause. It’s my opinion that if you take a person into custody for a nonviolent crime then you are responsible for their safety.

    As far as this incident goes, the “public” has asked for this crap by promoting/accepting/worshipping the the police and state and promoting the disgusting idea that they are there to help us and we grant them special license to use brutal force because it’s convenient. Under these terms I don’t think chauvin is guilty of the specific charge of murder, if anything he did what was expected.

    Also there is much reasonable doubt do to the fact that he was saying he couldn’t breath before the knee and had overdosed in the past and said the same thing.

    I do hope that this sets precedent that the police be held personally responsible for their actions and that this results in the cops taking a step back which would force people to take more responsibility for their own safety by utilizing the 2nd amendment.

    Seems to me that both people involved were dangerous people..

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Sure. That doesn't mean that A) that was the cause in this case and B) there wasn't a contributing cause. Chauvin had his knee on Floyds next two minutes after Floyd didn't have a pulse. Explain that one to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Northbreather View Post
    Listen bro. I’m definitely not a fan of the cops, but I will explain it to you since you asked.

    It is possible that the dude died from overdosing while chauvin put his knee on him. Fact is that we will never actually know the cause. It’s my opinion that if you take a person into custody for a nonviolent crime then you are responsible for their safety.

    As far as this incident goes, the “public” has asked for this crap by promoting/accepting/worshipping the the police and state and promoting the disgusting idea that they are there to help us and we grant them special license to use brutal force because it’s convenient. Under these terms I don’t think chauvin is guilty of the specific charge of murder, if anything he did what was expected.

    Also there is much reasonable doubt do to the fact that he was saying he couldn’t breath before the knee and had overdosed in the past and said the same thing.

    I do hope that this sets precedent that the police be held personally responsible for their actions and that this results in the cops taking a step back which would force people to take more responsibility for their own safety by utilizing the 2nd amendment.

    Seems to me that both people involved were dangerous people..
    Okay. Thanks for your response. I don't disagree with anything you said. I was, however, specifically asking for an explanation as to why Chauvin would keep his knee on Floyd's neck even after they couldn't find a pulse on Floyd. Yeah I get that we have a broken system and qualified immunity and all that. I get that police will get the benefit of the doubt, and sometimes (usually?) get off, for doing things that would get the rest of us 10 to 20. I don't understand why, in this one particular incident, people are still trying to argue that somehow, what Chauvin did after Floyd was dead was somehow reasonable. I get that Floyd said "I can't breath" while he was still in the car. I get that he was resisting arrest. I get that he asked to be put on the ground. I don't get the knee on the neck, but I get that other people get that. I just seems to me, call me crazy, that as soon as you can't find a pulse the proper procedure is to at that point turn someone over at try to administer CPR. Or at the very least at that point get up off the person. People on both sides of the political divide are trying to make more out of this verdict than what actually happened. I think it was a fluke. I think Chauvin's apparent lack of concern for someone who, at that point, was already dead made it easier to convict him than it otherwise would have been. I don't think this at all carries over, for example, to the Mikiah Bryant shooting. I have my doubts if even "taser, taser" woman is going to get convicted even though at the very least I think she's guilty of reckless homicide. But maybe I'm just looking at this all wrong. Who knows?
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

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