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Thread: Chauvin - Guilty on All Charges

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Okay. I all can do the the point that "CNN talking heads can't be trusted and the routinely say asinine things that undermine the rule of law" is to agree with you. I think Chauvin got a fair trial, but I think CNN sucks air.



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Does this send a signal to cops that they’re not protected?? Somehow I doubt it.
    It only makes people not want to be cops.
    1776 > 1984

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    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    It only makes people not want to be cops.
    Good. I've been trying to send that message to youngsters for years!

    (for many years now, "cop" was a default career option for high schools kids who didn't have a good direction for their lives. Very similar to "nurse")
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    That line of hers about reasonable doubt did strike me as morally repugnant and strange to be coming from a legal expert. The first thing I thought was that whatever background she had in practicing law must have been as a government prosecutor. So I checked, and yep, that's exactly what she was before becoming a professor and CNN analyst.
    [insert fred_sanford_heart_attack.gif here]



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    for many years now, "cop" was a default career option for high schools kids who didn't have a good direction for their lives.
    I'm more concerned that it's the default career option for people who first join the military, realize that it doesn't give them what they were looking for, and turn to policing as a better option to get it.


    It seems to me that the thing that they are looking for is some combination of a power trip / ego boost and the ability to intimidate and control others.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    In conclusion THE ONLY WAY BIDEN IS GOING TO SEE THE INSIDE OF THE OVAL OFFICE IS VIA THE A WHITEHOUSE PUBLIC TOUR

  8. #66
    One guy dies of a drug overdose and millions riot, regardless if the accused was found guilty or innocent, and they riot.

    Millions die of a phony vaccine / genetically engineered virus, bull$#@! wars, starvation, genocide, and they put their hands out and demand welfare.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  9. #67
    Ordinarily, I would have thought that most people of good will would be happy that this case is a de facto repudiation of Israeli sourced police/occupation tactics.

    Or do I hope too much?

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by sparebulb View Post
    Ordinarily, I would have thought that most people of good will would be happy that this case is a de facto repudiation of Israeli sourced police/occupation tactics.

    Or do I hope too much?
    I doubt that many people make an Israeli connection. But outside of that point, by my observation, most are satisfied with the results of this case.

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    This verdict appears to be 'Biden approved', that is not to say this is managed outcome.
    Saw some social media comments saying that verdict will be overturned but I think it's not going to be easy with current political/social justice/human rights climate.
    If this verdict stays, it will have far reaching implications. Will also make future global wars and occupations very difficult to manage.
    Pressure will build on Dems to end Police training trips to foreign countries that use 'knee on kneck' method for policing people of various races.


    Top GOP leaders appear to be quiet so far in response to this court verdict.
    Somewhat surprisngly notorious DGP Drone King did make a statement on justice and human rights:


    Obama says 'a jury did the right thing' after Derek Chauvin guilty verdict in George Floyd's death

    With a tear running from his eye, President Barack Obama recalls the 20 first-graders killed in 2012 at Sandy Hook Elementary School, while speaking in the East Room of the White House in Washington, Tuesday, Jan. 5, 2016, AP Photo/Pablo Martinez Monsivais

    Former President Barack Obama on Tuesday expressed relief after ex-Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin was found guilty of murder and manslaughter in the death of George Floyd.

    In a statement, Obama praised the verdict, while also voicing the thoughts of many who want to see criminal justice reforms in the US.
    "Today, a jury did the right thing," he said on Twitter. "For almost a year, George Floyd's death under the knee of a police officer has reverberated around the world — inspiring murals and marches, sparking conversations in living rooms and new legislation. But a more basic question has always remained: would justice be done?"
    He added: "In this case, at least, we have our answer. But if we're being honest with ourselves, we know that true justice is about much more than a single verdict in a single trial."
    businessinsider.com/obama-george-floyd-killing-derek-chauvin-policing-2021-4
    A broken clock is right twice a day.

    True that a broken clock can be right twice a day.

    But hypocrisy drip was tad bit too much when a guy on whose watch these things happened talks about "justice":



    Lawyer representing family of Miriam Carey, Conn. mom killed in U.S. Capitol car chase, arrested, report says

    Oct 19, 2013
    (CBS) NEW YORK - Eric Sanders, the lawyer who is representing the family of Miriam Carey, the Stamford, Conn. mother who led authorities on a chaotic car chase from the White House to the U.S. Capitol before being killed by authorities earlier this month, has been arrested for failing to pay court settlements against him, the New York Post reports.





    Daughter of Pastor who called Obama a 'puppet of bankers' arrested


    Son of civil rights leader who criticized Obama arrested

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...et-prosecuted&

  12. #70

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Hear hear.

    Would have loved to read his take on these shenanigans.
    Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings. - Heinrich Heine 1823

  14. #72
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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Is there anything other than an acquittal that would have you think it trial was fair?
    The verdict isn't the problem so much as the verdict in conjunction with the fact that the trial was not fair. There should have been a change in venue, the jury should have been sequestered, and expert witnesses (and by extension jurors) shouldn't have been intimidated. It is very possible that a reasonable jury would have come to the same conclusion, but without certain safeguards this trial was the modern day equivalent of throwing a virgin into a volcano as a sacrifice to the angry gods.

    All I've heard from the Chauvin defenders is "Well...Floyd had drugs in his system."
    Give me a dozen expert witnesses and I'll give you a dozen different answers. Fentanyl, an opioid, can specifically cause the respiratory muscles to to not function, resulting in a cessation of breathing. Floyd said that he couldn't breathe before he was even pinned to the ground. That is not an insignificant detail. I'm not emotionally invested in this case in the sense that I favor one party over the other for this incident, but it does raise some doubt as to the cause of death if Floyd did indeed decide to ingest a potentially lethal dose of fentanyl in order to hide the evidence of its possession. It could also be that Chauvin's actions were a contributory factor.

    My problem with this case is that there is much more at stake than the fate of Chauvin.
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    This is pretty much my take exactly.
    I'm not sad for the police but I don't think that the trial was fair, given the intimidation tactics being used.
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm View Post
    The verdict isn't the problem so much as the verdict in conjunction with the fact that the trial was not fair. There should have been a change in venue, the jury should have been sequestered, and expert witnesses (and by extension jurors) shouldn't have been intimidated. It is very possible that a reasonable jury would have come to the same conclusion, but without certain safeguards this trial was the modern day equivalent of throwing a virgin into a volcano as a sacrifice to the angry gods.
    I agree that the jury should have been sequestered, but with the level of pre-trial publicity prior to jury selection I doubt that really meant anything. I don't think change of venue is meaningful in this case unless you mean outside the U.S. This simply was not a localized crime. Where could Sirhan Sirhan find a jury that hadn't already read about the Robert F. Kennedy assasination? As for expert witness intimitation, which expert witnesses are you thinking about? Because I saw no evidence of that.


    Give me a dozen expert witnesses and I'll give you a dozen different answers.
    Yeah....but the defense didn't bring foward one. The defense did a good job cross examining the state's experts. But they never when beyond "fentynal can kill you" to "the reason why we don't think the chest and neck compression wasn't the major contributing factor do Floyd's death was..."

    Fentanyl, an opioid, can specifically cause the respiratory muscles to to not function, resulting in a cessation of breathing. Floyd said that he couldn't breathe before he was even pinned to the ground. That is not an insignificant detail. I'm not emotionally invested in this case in the sense that I favor one party over the other for this incident, but it does raise some doubt as to the cause of death if Floyd did indeed decide to ingest a potentially lethal dose of fentanyl in order to hide the evidence of its possession. It could also be that Chauvin's actions were a contributory factor.
    The autopsy did not reveal pills in Floyd's stomach, so that rules out the "Floyd ingested a large dose of fentynal." And the uphill battle for the defense was that they had to rule out Chauvin's actions as a major contributing factor. Yes Floyd said "I can't breath" before being put on the ground. Yes that is significant. But then you get to "Why would you put your knee on the neck of someone that just told you I can't breath?" I saw the defense try to push the idea that a "prone position" isn't inherently dangerous. The defense mentioned multiple scenarios of people being put in prone positions. But none of those were "prone positions with your knee on the neck and chest."

    My problem with this case is that there is much more at stake than the fate of Chauvin.
    Okay.
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  19. #76
    I think that this is a very good take on the recent events.

    This guy has a good youtube channel.


  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    The autopsy did not reveal pills in Floyd's stomach, so that rules out the "Floyd ingested a large dose of fentynal."
    That is wrong, one of the expert witnesses said that if she found Floyd in an apartment, she would have ruled it an overdose.. he had lethal amounts of fentanyl, and he had meth in his system.. combining drugs like that reduces the lethal dose.

    Also I guess you forgot that they found a "chewed up" speedball in the police car.. which means he was chewing on the pill and ingesting the drugs, then he spit out the shell.. so there were no "pills" in his stomach, so he likely had drugs in his system and then added most of a speedball on top of that (and possibly more, that may have been spit out in the street somewhere)
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
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    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    That is wrong, one of the expert witnesses said that if she found Floyd in an apartment, she would have ruled it an overdose.. he had lethal amounts of fentanyl, and he had meth in his system.. combining drugs like that reduces the lethal dose.

    Also I guess you forgot that they found a "chewed up" speedball in the police car.. which means he was chewing on the pill and ingesting the drugs, then he spit out the shell.. so there were no "pills" in his stomach, so he likely had drugs in his system and then added most of a speedball on top of that (and possibly more, that may have been spit out in the street somewhere)
    The Magic Bullet has given way to The Magic Speedball.

    The chain of custody on that convenient piece of evidence is more than a little sketchy.

    At best, it is sloppy police work.

    The most likely explanation lies with the thin blue line.

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by sparebulb View Post
    The Magic Bullet has given way to The Magic Speedball.

    The chain of custody on that convenient piece of evidence is more than a little sketchy.

    At best, it is sloppy police work.

    The most likely explanation lies with the thin blue line.
    With his DNA all over it? Ya, I really doubt it.. he was with his drug dealer in the car, he was known for eating drugs during police interactions.

    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  23. #80
    In the end no trouble.

    Chauvin's restraint was wrong, even the police said this during the testimony.



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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    This seems accurate to me too.

    I also think it's strange for the charges to stack like that, it should be one of the three, whichever it meets the criteria for, not all three.
    Essentially the charges are presented as a hierarchy, with 2nd degree murder being the most severe, 3rd degree being the next, then manslaughter (in this case). Each one has its own elements to prove. Ergo, Chauvin was not found to have criminally killed Floyd three times; it was that he was found to have committed three separate crimes that all resulted in Floyd's death.
    Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just and that his justice cannot sleep forever. Thomas Jefferson

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Rothbardian Girl View Post
    Essentially the charges are presented as a hierarchy, with 2nd degree murder being the most severe, 3rd degree being the next, then manslaughter (in this case). Each one has its own elements to prove. Ergo, Chauvin was not found to have criminally killed Floyd three times; it was that he was found to have committed three separate crimes that all resulted in Floyd's death.
    Thanks. The video in post 76 had an explanation that I think was basically the same as that. I still think it's weird. But it sounds like it's the way the law of that state does it.

  27. #83
    Note that this video does not take any position on the Chauvin verdict.

    It merely uses the controversial circumstances surrounding the Chauvin trial as a justification for the topic.

    A Jury of Our Peer Pressure: The Psychology of Conformity
    How impartial are juries and jurors really? Let's look at the research on conformity and how social psychology influences how a jury might vote on major legal cases.
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  28. #84
    That awkward moment when you want to riot, but you got the verdict you wanted so now you have no reason to.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  29. #85

  30. #86
    Derek Chauvin got what he deserved
    Some conservatives are saying Derek Chauvin being found guilty for the murder of George Floyd means it was a sham trial based on "mob rule." This couldn't be more wrong.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0LQCqai7Ec

  31. #87

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    This whole cluster $#@! from day one is like every episode of Breaking Bad condensed into one painful hour.

    I have nobody to cheer for here...nobody to be in favor of...not even an anti-hero has emerged.

    Everybody involved sucks ass and I want no part of any of it.
    The left has hijacked the issue of police reform/criminal justice reform by making it all about race. Now conservatives reflexively support the police even more than before, because it’s become a 100% racial issue. Of course, all of us realize that it’s an issue of government overreach, not an issue of the police hating blacks. But, that’s no longer even part of the discussion. It’s now just entirely a racial issue and a racial debate between the right and the left. It’s quite sad.



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  34. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    Now conservatives reflexively support the police even more than before, because it’s become a 100% racial issue.
    I think you're right about that.

    As a corollary to that observation, conservatives who do that should do some soul searching and ask themselves why it is that it makes a difference to them if it's a racial issue or not.

  35. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    I think you're right about that.

    As a corollary to that observation, conservatives who do that should do some soul searching and ask themselves why it is that it makes a difference to them if it's a racial issue or not.
    I'm not a conservative, but I can see the answer to this without doing any soul-searching at all: conservatives are by nature reactionary - so when Woke progressives make an issue all about race, conservatives will react on that basis. They wouldn't be conservatives if they didn't. (And in any case, what else are they supposed to do? Just accede to the "racializing" of everything, including the identification and denunciation of themselves as "racists"?)

    Every element of the Cathedral (government, academia, and corporate media) is falling or has already fallen under the sway of the Woke, who are "racializing" everything. Brett85 already alluded to this fact when he said, "The left has hijacked the issue of police reform/criminal justice reform by making it all about race." To Woke progressivism (which is currently by far the most active and virile faction of the left), everything is always about race. (That is, after all, what they mean by "systemic" racism.) To them, there is literally nothing that (1) is not in some way "problematic" along racial, gender, or other "intersectional" lines, and (2) does not need to be "abolished" or "dismantled" because of (1) (to be replaced, of course, with illiberal systems of their own design).

    Given this, and regardless of other internecine differences, everyone who is not a Woke progressive (conservatives, the non-Woke left, libertarians, etc.) should be reacting vigorously against the vicious bigotries of the Woke. As I addressed in a recent post to another thread, illiberal left-socialist authoritarians presently pose a far greater danger to civil, liberal society than does any faction on the right (including illiberal right-fascist authoritarians who may be genuine racists). It will not end well for anyone else, no matter their politics, if the Woke gain the power and control that they seek (not even the Woke's own "useful idiots" in media and the academy will be safe).

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