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Thread: Washington Races Ahead of California to Ban Gas Cars

  1. #1

    Washington Races Ahead of California to Ban Gas Cars

    The Washington state legislature has passed the Clean Cars 2030 bill, which will require that by 2030 all new light-duty vehicles sold or registered in the state be electric, with the exception of emergency vehicles. If signed into law by Governor Jay Inslee, the bill would become the most pro-EV measure adopted by any state in the country, including California's executive action that envisions a similar phase-out by 2035. Among the differences, of course, is that the Washington state bill would carry the force of law, whereas California's executive action by Governor Gavin Newsom is a far weaker measure, and really just directs the California Air Resources Board (CARB) to adopt agency rulemaking by that timeframe.

    The Washington state bill was passed with a vote of 54-43 in the state House and 25-23 in the state Senate, and now awaits the governor's signature. The measure itself is not as automatic a ban as it might seem, however.

    For one thing, it is contingent upon 75% of the vehicles in the state being subject to a road usage charge—a separate event which has yet to take place. This measure would be an alternative to a gasoline tax, effectively charging drivers per mile traveled rather than at the gas pump, and must be enacted through separate pieces of legislation. Another limiting factor is that the bill applies only to light-duty vehicles, so it is by no means an all-inclusive measure.

    "Once a road usage charge, or equivalent fee or tax based on vehicle miles traveled, is in effect in the state of Washington with at least 75 percent of the registered passenger and light-duty vehicles in the state participating, then a goal is established for the state that all publicly owned and privately owned passenger and light-duty vehicles of model year 2030 or later that are sold, purchased, or registered in Washington state be electric vehicles," the bill states in part. Passage of the bill has been supported by Coltura, an organization that has been working with allies to speed up a transition to a zero-emissions automotive landscape.

    "With the passage of Clean Cars 2030, the end of the era of gasoline-powered cars is in sight," Matthew Metz, co-executive director of Coltura said in a statement. "Clean Cars 2030 sets Washington on a nation-leading path consistent with climate science and an auto industry trend toward a fully electric automotive future."

    Overall, Washington state legislators' efforts represent the most progressive (or aggressive, depending on your viewpoint) measures anywhere in the country to bring about a transition to vehicles powered by electric motors, whether they are battery-electric or hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles, as both are contemplated in the bill. If implemented, the law will effectively prevent registration of non-conforming vehicles bought out of state, which is meant to close that obvious loophole, tying the enforcement of the statute to registrations as well as sales. The major trigger remains the actual road usage tax scheme, a measure intended to equalize the tax burden across gas, diesel, and electric vehicles, as otherwise EVs would simply not pay their share for road upkeep in the state.

    "In 2012, the Legislature directed the Transportation Commission, in close cooperation with WSDOT and with guidance from a multi-stakeholder steering committee, to conduct an assessment of Road Usage Charging and determine if it is feasible," the Washington State Transportation Commission notes on its website. "Work has continued since 2012, and it has been determined that Road Usage Charging is feasible and that it will out-produce the gas tax in terms of revenue, as cars become more fuel efficient. A Road Usage Charge (RUC) is a per-mile charge drivers would pay for the use of the roads, as opposed to paying by the gallon of gas. If implemented, it would replace the gas tax statewide." The measure itself is currently in a pilot project stage, even after eight years of work.

    This particular legislative mechanism is perhaps more forward-looking that the phase-out of gas and diesel-engined light-vehicle sales, as it attempts to set out a way to collect revenue for an era further in the future than 2030. But it poses its own legislative challenges in the coming years and must be enacted separately.
    https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-...-ban-gas-cars/



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  3. #2
    2030 seems incredibly early


    I think that things will head 90+% electric eventually, regardless of regulation or the lack thereof, but 2030? Nope.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    In conclusion THE ONLY WAY BIDEN IS GOING TO SEE THE INSIDE OF THE OVAL OFFICE IS VIA THE A WHITEHOUSE PUBLIC TOUR

  4. #3
    Yeah there's absolutely no evil agenda behind this at all.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  5. #4
    The Washington state legislature has passed the Clean Cars 2030 bill, which will require that by 2030 all new light-duty vehicles sold or registered in the state be electric, with the exception of emergency vehicles.
    Notice that there are a segment of cars that can evade both of those classifications. Buy in other state, do not register in WA.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  6. #5
    Hard to believe,, but this is a worse Governor and whacked legislature than Michigan.

    remember Detroit? (I told you to)
    Canary effect.

    disclaimer;
    I have no personal control of the stupidity I observe.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  7. #6

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Better not rush.
    It took around four hours and 23,000 gallons of water before the flames were out, firefighters said.
    and years ago as a Firefighter I learned you never put water on an Electrical Fire.

    who is training these kids?
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    and years ago as a Firefighter I learned you never put water on an Electrical Fire.

    who is training these kids?
    Wonder if they were unaware it was an EV and assumed it was a regular car.. just speculating and assuming water can be used in case of regular car.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Wonder if they were unaware it was an EV and assumed it was a regular car.. just speculating and assuming water can be used in case of regular car.
    I remember training materials that dealt with extractions from electric vehicles before Tesla was a known name. 84/85

    I would like to believe the materials and training would be updated by now..
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    I remember training materials that dealt with extractions from electric vehicles before Tesla was a known name. 84/85

    I would like to believe the materials and training would be updated by now..
    Here's an updated flier for first responders dealing with an EV fire/crash from DOT dated 2014

    http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/nvs...ireDept-v2.pdf

    While they note that damaged or burning battery packs may contain residual high voltages and leads and cables are to be avoided, the best and only solution seems to be "surround and drown".

    A "B" class extinguisher could be used to knock down visible flames long enough to extract or rescue occupants, but without massive amounts of water to cool and stop a thermal runaway, your only other choice is to retreat, isolate and let it burn.

    Apparently these batteries are not too different from lead acid batteries, in that they have plates, screens and spacers all wrapped around one another and submerged in an electrolyte solution. Rupture and short circuiting of these plates during charging or in crash, causes electrolyte boiling, offgassing then explosion and fire.

    Here's a quick read on it:

    https://engineering.purdue.edu/P2SAC...al-Runaway.pdf
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 04-19-2021 at 10:16 PM.
    Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings. - Heinrich Heine 1823

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Here's an updated flier for first responders dealing with an EV fire/crash from DOT dated 2014

    http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/nvs...ireDept-v2.pdf

    While they note that damaged or burning battery packs may contain residual high voltages and leads and cables are to be avoided, the best and only solution seems to be "surround and drown".

    A "B" class extinguisher could be used to knock down visible flames long enough to extract or rescue occupants, but without massive amounts of water to cool and stop a thermal runaway, your only other choice is to retreat, isolate and let it burn.
    Power leads are the issue.. Not the batteries other than the massive power stored.

    Both voltage and amperage to be a Hugh arc Welder..

    Water is Wrong.. Cut power supply. and smother what the arc lit.

    Water will just make steam till the batteries are depleted.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  14. #12

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    and years ago as a Firefighter I learned you never put water on an Electrical Fire.

    who is training these kids?
    What about foam?

  16. #14
    On a side note, good Anti-Virus software should also be made available with such sophisticated devices at the start of mass production.

    Tesla Model S car hacked from 19km away using 'malicious' wi-fi hotspot
    21 Sep 2016

    The FBI Warns That Car Hacking Is a Real Risk
    Mar 17, 2016

    A Deep Flaw in Your Car Lets Hackers Shut Down Safety Features
    Since two security researchers showed they could hijack a moving Jeep on a highway three years ago, both automakers and the cybersecurity industry have accepted that connected cars are as vulnerable to hacking as anything else linked to the internet. But one new car-hacking trick illustrates that while awareness helps, protection can be extremely complex.
    TESLA goes down in massive network outage...

    Fears of major hack...



    • Tesla has been hit by complete network outage starting around 11am ET
    • Internal systems are down, making it impossible for staff to process orders
    • On the customer side, some users cannot connect to their car in the app
    • The US and Europe are experiencing issues with what appears to be the app
    • The outage follows Tesla's Battery Day that many investors deemed a failure


    By Stacy Liberatore For Dailymail.com
    Published: 23 September 2020

    Also, it should be ensured that majority controlling stakes in such companies would continue to belong to American investors.


  17. #15
    A lot of rare earth minerals that are exclusively mined in China.
    Share your love of liberty with our libertarian clothing and 2nd Amendment shirts. Or check out Thought Grenades (our blog) and our curated news aggregator (think Drudge - but better).

  18. #16

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by libertasbella View Post
    A lot of rare earth minerals that are exclusively mined in China.
    Really..

    I know of New Motors without Rare Earth elements.
    https://www.evwest.com/catalog/produ...180bf51ccui563
    The permanent magnets are a new design that are manufactured without the use of rare earth elements, but still gain a big efficiency advantage with a powerful 173 lb/ft of torque.
    BIG OIL (OPEC) is trying to keep the voluntary slavery going..

    I would love to see the Head Choppers eat sand,, and go on without ever buying another gallon of their product.. it costs too much Blood and treasure.

    There is a Concerted push against any other technology. and electric cars predate gas cars.

    Gas has not been cheep for 50 years. and there has been no Competition..
    I am amazed at those that support that monopoly.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Really..

    I know of New Motors without Rare Earth elements.
    https://www.evwest.com/catalog/produ...180bf51ccui563


    BIG OIL (OPEC) is trying to keep the voluntary slavery going..

    I would love to see the Head Choppers eat sand,, and go on without ever buying another gallon of their product.. it costs too much Blood and treasure.

    There is a Concerted push against any other technology. and electric cars predate gas cars.

    Gas has not been cheep for 50 years. and there has been no Competition..
    I am amazed at those that support that monopoly.
    That's all fine and dandy with the motors, but what are you going to make your batteries from, potatoes?

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt4Liberty View Post
    That's all fine and dandy with the motors, but what are you going to make your batteries from, potatoes?
    Hemp.

    Graphene made from Hemp.

    https://physics.news/2020-10-08-a-tr...atteries.html#

    as One alternative.. Though producing electricity from potatoes is a reality.

    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Hemp.

    Graphene made from Hemp.

    https://physics.news/2020-10-08-a-tr...atteries.html#

    as One alternative.. Though producing electricity from potatoes is a reality.

    That said it wasn't graphene, but a "hemp based nano sheet". I have seen enough of these so-called technologies of the future fail miserably to deliver the promised results, but I wish them the best. Even then, I'm sure there's some sort of rare earth metal required to make this hemp process work.

  24. #21
    So smart:

    Tesla cars can drive with nobody in the driver’s seat, Consumer Reports engineers find

    Published Thu, Apr 22 2021


    • Consumer Reports said Thursday that in testing this week it found it could “easily” get a 2020 Tesla Model Y to drive “even with no one in the driver’s seat.”
    • The test follows a fatal 2019 Model S crash in Spring, Texas, on Saturday that elicited investigations by federal vehicle safety authorities.
    • BMW, Ford, GM, Subaru and others use camera-based driver assistance systems to track movement of a driver’s eyes and head position to make sure they are minding the road. Tesla has sensors in steering wheels instead.


    cnbc.com/2021/04/22/tesla-can-drive-with-nobody-in-the-drivers-seat-consumer-reports.html

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    So smart:

    Tesla cars can drive with nobody in the driver’s seat, Consumer Reports engineers find

    Published Thu, Apr 22 2021
    I have no interest in AI or self drive.. but there has been a push for it since the mid 70s..

    and just like pocket calculators that would fit in a pocket ,it became a reality,,

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/car...ar-of-the-70s/

    https://laughingsquid.com/the-playbo...n-wheels-1975/

    and for the Rabid Musk haters,, he didn't start this.
    https://www.autoevolution.com/news/a...ogy-68148.html
    Last edited by pcosmar; 04-22-2021 at 09:18 PM.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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