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Thread: Rand just voted to confirm Lloyd Austin for SecDef

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You fail in your attempt to put words in my mouth, he would not have earned support for other things from those who wanted Bolton.
    And NSA is a powerless position which got Bolton nothing but humiliation.
    Once again, do you think Ted Cruz would have not been confirmed. Yes or no. And Bolton wasn't the only horrible pick. Jeff Sessions for attorney general. Nikki Haley for U.N. ambassor. Mike Pompeo for secretary of state. The swamp list goes on and on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Try to keep track of what we are talking about, you said voting against Biden's cabinet picks would be partisan so Rand should vote for them like he does.
    Try to not make things up because you don't care about the truth. I said Rand allows the President their pick but he does want questions answered.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You want bipartisanship like the swamp, which puts the lie to the results you claim to want.
    No I don't want bi partisanship. That's just another of your lies because you are more concerned with appearing right than you are with the truth.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Try to keep track of what we are talking about, you said voting against Biden's cabinet picks would be partisan so Rand should vote for them like he does.
    You want bipartisanship like the swamp, which puts the lie to the results you claim to want.
    ^This is just asinine. To compare apples to apples, how is Lloyd Austin worse then General Mattis? (Hint. He's not.) Should Rand have voted against Trump's nominees? Principles >>>>> partisanship.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by tebowlives View Post
    That's just another of your lies because you are more concerned with appearing right than you are with the truth.
    Does that make him a flim flam man? Or is he the spin spam man?

    Because if someone doesn't "feel comfortable" with someone in this brave new middle school Official Culture, a death sentence is perfectly reasonable.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    What was Mike Lee’s reason?
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    If a four star general and CENTCOM commander is not qualified ( not saying he is ) we are not doing something right somewhere in a much deeper way .Like to know what Lees reasoning was . That said biden is going to make a lot of picks I wouldnt vote for . May as well save the nays for the unqualified .
    Found this:

    Lee also was among senators on the losing side of a 69-27 vote on Thursday to give a special waiver to Austin to allow him to serve as secretary of defense without first waiting through a normally required 7-year period after active military service.

    Conn Carroll, spokesperson for Lee, said the senator “believes civilian control of the military is best served by the existing rule requiring a seven-year gap between active duty and the position of secretary of defense.”

    He added, “Other senators may have voted to waive that rule for Gen. Austin, but Sen. Lee believes it should be uniformly applied.”
    ...
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...se/ar-BB1d0lYa
    So this rule is supposed to put a little time between military service and civilian government service. By a vote of 69-27, the Senate waived that rule.

    While just about everyone sees the problem of the revolving door between government and private industry (and lobbying), they never seem to have a problem with granting waivers. I see that Austin’s short time in the private sector included Raytheon, although Lee (or his spokesman) did not mention that as a reason. MIC will be MIC.
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  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Found this:



    So this rule is supposed to put a little time between military service and civilian government service. By a vote of 69-27, the Senate waived that rule.

    While just about everyone sees the problem of the revolving door between government and private industry (and lobbying), they never seem to have a problem with granting waivers. I see that Austin’s short time in the private sector included Raytheon, although Lee (or his spokesman) did not mention that as a reason. MIC will be MIC.
    I'd almost prefer they had no time in between . That way maybe they'd not be as tainted and act more as a public servant. I dont see any advantage in having MIC company board members in that position .
    Last edited by oyarde; 01-25-2021 at 04:40 PM.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Which is collaboration with the enemy and dereliction of duty.

    The Senate has the power to advise and CONSENT, bad nominees should be denied consent.
    Rand has been derelict of duty ever since endorsing Mitt Romney for President. People here just like to pretend he is some kind of principled liberty advocate.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    Rand has been derelict of duty ever since endorsing Mitt Romney for President. People here just like to pretend he is some kind of principled liberty advocate.
    Well, you know, that's just silly.

    But silly isn't so bad. Saying Trump is somehow more principled than he is, on the other hand, is insane. No connection with the real world at all.
    Because if someone doesn't "feel comfortable" with someone in this brave new middle school Official Culture, a death sentence is perfectly reasonable.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Well, you know, that's just silly.

    But silly isn't so bad. Saying Trump is somehow more principled than he is, on the other hand, is insane. No connection with the real world at all.
    When did I mention Trump? I see TDS isn't just a disease of Democrats.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    When did I mention Trump? I see TDS isn't just a disease of Democrats.
    Trump Defensive Shilling was never a disease of Democrats. And not everything ever said to you is about you.
    Because if someone doesn't "feel comfortable" with someone in this brave new middle school Official Culture, a death sentence is perfectly reasonable.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Trump Defensive Shilling was never a disease of Democrats. And not everything ever said to you is about you.
    Yes, we all know you hate Trump. We got it the first hundred times you said it. If you want to have a discussion about Rand Paul, then let's do it. Otherwise, my comment did not pertain to Trump and you are more than welcome to exit this exchange. I am not interested in talking about Trump in this thread. You will not hijack my replies.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    ^This is just asinine. To compare apples to apples, how is Lloyd Austin worse then General Mattis? (Hint. He's not.) Should Rand have voted against Trump's nominees? Principles >>>>> partisanship.

    What exactly is the complaint here, anyway? Is it the civilian control of the military issue, or is it purely that all of Biden's nominees should be opposed?

    If it's the former, well obviously Mattis had the same issue, as mentioned.

    If it's the latter, that is asinine. Opposing everything that Biden does makes the opposition easy to dismiss and ignore as rank partisanship. Selective opposition when there's a point to be made about the opposition seems to be the better strategy.

    I'm guessing it's partisanship, as it took until the second page for anyone to even begin to articulate why Austin should be opposed, rather than just taking it as given.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    In conclusion THE ONLY WAY BIDEN IS GOING TO SEE THE INSIDE OF THE OVAL OFFICE IS VIA THE A WHITEHOUSE PUBLIC TOUR

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Aratus View Post
    RAYTHEON....

    He went from the U.S Military to RAYTHEON.

    RAYTHEON....
    Same as the last secdef.


    If you want even more bull$#@!, Esper's "retirement" from Raytheon included extra compensation based on Raytheon's stock price in 2022. So the secdef was in a position to directly benefit from the actions of the department he was heading.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    In conclusion THE ONLY WAY BIDEN IS GOING TO SEE THE INSIDE OF THE OVAL OFFICE IS VIA THE A WHITEHOUSE PUBLIC TOUR

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    Yes, we all know you hate Trump. We got it the first hundred times you said it. If you want to have a discussion about Rand Paul, then let's do it. Otherwise, my comment did not pertain to Trump and you are more than welcome to exit this exchange. I am not interested in talking about Trump in this thread. You will not hijack my replies.
    Is this a good cop/bad cop routine? The bad shyll hijacks the thread and the good shyll runs around accusing everyone else of threadjacking?
    Because if someone doesn't "feel comfortable" with someone in this brave new middle school Official Culture, a death sentence is perfectly reasonable.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    Rand has been derelict of duty ever since endorsing Mitt Romney for President. People here just like to pretend he is some kind of principled liberty advocate.
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Well, you know, that's just silly.

    But silly isn't so bad. Saying Trump is somehow more principled than he is, on the other hand, is insane. No connection with the real world at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    When did I mention Trump? I see TDS isn't just a disease of Democrats.
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Trump Defensive Shilling was never a disease of Democrats. And not everything ever said to you is about you.
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    Yes, we all know you hate Trump. We got it the first hundred times you said it. If you want to have a discussion about Rand Paul, then let's do it. Otherwise, my comment did not pertain to Trump and you are more than welcome to exit this exchange. I am not interested in talking about Trump in this thread. You will not hijack my replies.
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Is this a good cop/bad cop routine? The bad shyll hijacks the thread and the good shyll runs around accusing everyone else of threadjacking?
    Observe as acptulsa sidetracks familydog's response to someone else by invoking Trump out of nowhere, then whines about his inability to stay on topic being pointed out. It must be some conspiracy against acptulsa, it could not possibly be due to the fact he simply made a fool of himself.

  19. #46
    Because if someone doesn't "feel comfortable" with someone in this brave new middle school Official Culture, a death sentence is perfectly reasonable.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Bolton got a worthless position and humiliation but Trump got to please Republicans who wanted him and get their support for other good things.
    You're trying to have it both ways again.

    If Bolton's appointment was worthless, then there is no reason for Republicans to have given their support to things they would otherwise have opposed in exchange for it. And if they would not otherwise have opposed those things, then there is no reason for Trump to have offered Bolton's appointment ("worthless" or not) in exchange for their support of those things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Rand gets nothing out of this vote and continues his stated betrayal of the Senate's role of consenting or not to cabinet nominees, Trump never said Congress has a right to pass bills so he would never veto one.
    Rand is also a Senator, the only power he has is to vote, Trump as POTUS had power to do far more than sign or veto bills and needed support from Republicans for what he did.
    Rand has no leverage with his single vote and would lose nothing by voting no, Trump had lots of leverage as the single person with veto power and he was able to use it to influence bills (if not dictate their entire contents) or to horse trade for Republican support on other things, he would have lost all of that if he went around vetoing bills and getting overridden all the time.
    As elaborate as it is, this just reduces to another "both ways" argument.

    If a veto would have been overridden, then ipso facto a veto threat could not have provided "leverage" of any kind. Empty and Impotent threats are empty and impotent, and there is no reason for Republicans to have respected them (let alone give up anything they would not otherwise have ceded).

    Again, if Trump gets a pass, then so does Rand.

    And if Rand does not get a pass, then neither does Trump.

    Either of these branches can be defended without contradiction, but "mixing and matching" requires the hand-waving application of a double standard.

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  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Either of these branches can be defended without contradiction, but "mixing and matching" requires the hand-waving application of a double standard.
    He certainly thinks he can make a double standard fly.

    I wonder if he also thinks he can juggle? Or do this:

    Because if someone doesn't "feel comfortable" with someone in this brave new middle school Official Culture, a death sentence is perfectly reasonable.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    You're trying to have it both ways again.

    If Bolton's appointment was worthless, then there is no reason for Republicans to have given their support to things they would otherwise have opposed in exchange for it. And if they would not otherwise have opposed those things, then there is no reason for Trump to have offered Bolton's appointment ("worthless" or not) in exchange for their support of those things.



    As elaborate as it is, this just reduces to another "both ways" argument.

    If a veto would have been overridden, then ipso facto a veto threat could not have provided "leverage" of any kind. Empty and Impotent threats are empty and impotent, and there is no reason for Republicans to have respected them (let alone give up anything they would not otherwise have ceded).

    Again, if Trump gets a pass, then so does Rand.

    And if Rand does not get a pass, then neither does Trump.

    Either of these branches can be defended without contradiction, but "mixing and matching" requires the hand-waving application of a double standard.
    Giving the other side something they think has value but really doesn't is getting a great deal and that is what Trump did.
    Republicans thought Bolton as NSA was valuable to them and they saw value in not overriding the vetoes of a popular president from their own party.
    Rand gets nothing from anyone for his confirmations votes.

    And Rand has stated that a POTUS has a right to have his appointments confirmed, Trump never said Congress had a right to not be vetoed, he used veto threats to get things he wanted and he also issued vetoes.
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  24. #50
    You picked this hill to die on? Well, any hill is fine with me.

    You've been asked on what grounds Austin should not be confirmed. Spit it out. And no, "A Demoncrat appointed him" is not valid among thinking humans.
    Because if someone doesn't "feel comfortable" with someone in this brave new middle school Official Culture, a death sentence is perfectly reasonable.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by BSWPaulsen View Post
    Observe as acptulsa sidetracks familydog's response to someone else by invoking Trump out of nowhere, then whines about his inability to stay on topic being pointed out. It must be some conspiracy against acptulsa, it could not possibly be due to the fact he simply made a fool of himself.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BSWPaulsen again.

  26. #52
    Austin is no better or worse, no different than every other SecDef appointed by any administration. Contractor puppet and bends knee to Israel and Vatican. SSDD

    Rand has always been open in his belief that POTUS (CFR's chosen, really) is entitled to his cabinet picks unless there's otherwise something illegal or extremely troubling about them.
    Last edited by devil21; 01-26-2021 at 10:19 AM.
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  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Austin is no better or worse, no different than every other SecDef appointed by any administration. Contractor puppet and bends knee to Israel and Vatican. SSDD

    Rand has always been open in his belief that POTUS (CFR's chosen, really) is entitled to his cabinet picks unless there's otherwise something illegal or extremely troubling about them.
    Exactly.

    But if @acptulsa brings up the hypocrisy of members saying Rand has been "derelict of duty" for this, while Trump is given excuses for everything from filling the swamp to Operation Warp Speed, then he is falls into the insult/name-calling/no real discussion/divide & haters attacks on the forum.
    There is no spoon.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BSWPaulsen again.
    Careful. The more people shout, "That's only a conspiracy theory!" the more RPF posters come to believe there's something to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Exactly.

    But if @acptulsa brings up the hypocrisy of members saying Rand has been "derelict of duty" for this, while Trump is given excuses for everything from filling the swamp to Operation Warp Speed, then he is falls into the insult/name-calling/no real discussion/divide & haters attacks on the forum.
    Will Rogers said, "If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't stupidity get us out?". And if hypocrisy got them into this mess, why can't hypocrisy get them out?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 01-26-2021 at 10:54 AM.
    Because if someone doesn't "feel comfortable" with someone in this brave new middle school Official Culture, a death sentence is perfectly reasonable.

  29. #55
    Throw all the spoiled brat hissy fits you want. All the other trumpcucks saw him roll up the Constitution and slap Impeachment II upside the head with it. They'll support him heart and soul.

    At least until their attention spans expire.
    Because if someone doesn't "feel comfortable" with someone in this brave new middle school Official Culture, a death sentence is perfectly reasonable.

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