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Thread: Join, or Die

  1. #1

    Join, or Die

    In this thread, Anti Federalist wrote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I support Orange Man as a symbol. A symbol, that for better or worse right now, represents the the entire range of thought from Ana-Caps to Neo-Cons and everything in between. The sea of people that, for the most part, want to be left alone to live their lives, with a minimum of government interference, control and regulation and peaceful co-existence with their neighbors, without sticking their noses in their business.

    The Hair Plugged Man is a symbol as well, of the sea of people that consider that very idea, selfish, self centered, tainted with all the assorted "isms" and guilty of befouling the planet. This sea of people have been taught that any system that allows people to live in this manner, only exists because it is a prop to perpetuate the "isms", and it cannot be reformed, but must be destroyed, and the people in it, re-educated, by force and exterminated if they fail to comply and show the proper deference and awe to the Exalted Leader.

    And these two visions of society cannot co-exist together.

    One must prevail and the other must be crushed.
    He is absolutely correct about the polarization between two visions. There is another realpolitik globalist totalitarian vision lurking behind the ideological communist useful idiots, but that's beside the point.

    The point is, the battle for liberty is no longer about libertarians and Constitutionalists vs. everybody else, fighting a noble quest against the tightening of the noose within a never-ending status quo. It is now about Americans vs. globalist totalitarians and their minions. It is about good vs. evil in the endgame, and the evil is so overwhelmingly pervasive that only converting back to Christianity has helped me comprehend its magnitude and bear its weight.

    I can no longer in good conscience consider libertarians and Constitutionalists my only allies. In fact, so many are so rigid and blind to the sheer magnitude of what is happening that despite our shared ideals about the narrow role of government, I no longer feel much kinship with them at all.

    My allies are now every single good-faith American willing to stand tall and roar for free and fair elections in the face of corrupt totalitarians. My allies are now every single good-faith Christian on Earth, because a time of persecution may be coming swiftly. My allies are now every single person on Earth willing to sacrifice anything short of their souls to reject the New World Order's Great Reset and what follows. It's on the cover of Time Magazine this week, you know. Their promotional material is really something: "You will own nothing. And you will be happy."

    It is time for the people of the world to join together as one unified voice against this madness. Only if we survive as a civilization, let alone a nation, will the differences between honest conservatives, liberals, and libertarians ever matter again. I'll take a single naive wide-eyed "back-the-blue" Kyle Rittenhouse or a liberal Tim Pool over a thousand fence-sitting ideological libertarian know-it-all mockers any day. It is plainly apparent who does more good in this world.

    We should all be far beyond caring that Orange Man Bad is a big-spending soft authoritarian with a wrongly expansive view of government, because it doesn't matter anymore. At this point he is the only living man on Earth with the resolve and leadership qualities to unite millions of honest Americans against the monstrous designs of the New World Order. I'll stand with him proudly to that end, and I'll laugh at his obnoxious character flaws, because life is better with irony.

    I'll take a single Rand Paul or Archbishop Vigano willing to stand up with Orange Caesar over a million forum posting basement dwellers with impeccable NAP scorecards and better monetary/foreign/fiscal/whatever policy recommendations. Those of you who consider this fight uninteresting or morally beneath you are as admirable as the Pharisees who Jesus Christ called whitewashed tombs.

    I may never forget 2008, but at this point I'll take Rudy "The Ghoul" Giuliani over half this forum. As of this week I might even take the corrupt and self-enriching Newt Gingrich. At least he's willing to put his neck out and stand up for something! Despite silence from the globalist collaborators among the DOJ, RNC, and his colleagues, do you know who else was willing to sacrifice $500k for this fight? Lindsey Graham! The swamp may be deep, but it is far more complex that we used to think. As it turns out, some of our former enemies are actually real people, and somewhere deep down they still have some American in them. The real battle lines are being drawn now, and they aren't always what we thought they were.

    This is a battle of God vs. Satan, and God works through extremely flawed people, not just the Ron Pauls of the world. I'll take them all, and I'll forgive them for their flaws, because for at least this one time in their lives, they are willing to show some basic decency and courage. At this point, it is their example that we must follow.

    Join, or die. May God forgive us our sins and sloth and deliver us from evil in this dark hour, so that we may escape the terror that awaits us if we fail.
    Last edited by Mini-Me; 11-06-2020 at 10:18 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by President John F. Kennedy
    And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. That we are only 6% of the world's population, and that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94% of mankind. That we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity, and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.
    I need an education in US history, from the ground up. Can you help point me to a comprehensive, unbiased, scholarly resource?



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  3. #2
    What you don't seem to understand is that all of the names you listed are all on the same team, working toward that vision that you mentioned in your first sentence. Any opposition is for show. I mean really, 9/11 Rudy? Seriously? Come on man.

    Bidens attended WEF Davos. Trump did too. Kushner and Pompeo quietly attended Bilderberg last year. So did Stacy Abrams. And "libertarian" Peter Thiel. Wise up brother. The battle here is Americans vs them. No publicly presented "face" is there unless it is fully controlled and on board.
    Last edited by devil21; 11-06-2020 at 10:42 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    What you don't seem to understand is that all of the names you listed are all on the same team, working toward that vision that you mentioned in your first sentence. Any opposition is for show. I mean really, 9/11 Rudy? Seriously? Come on man.

    Bidens attended WEF Davos. Trump did too. Kushner and Pompeo quietly attended Bilderberg last year. So did Stacy Abrams. And "libertarian" Peter Thiel. Wise up brother. The battle here is Americans vs them. No publicly presented "face" is there unless it is fully controlled and on board.
    Word. I would take 10,000 forum posters sitting around bitching and doing NOTHING over one Rudy doing SOMETHING. One is much deadlier than the other.

    Edit: I get where you are going, OP. I feel the same about most of it. Many have tried to convince me that there were political answers to political problems. I strongly disagree.
    Last edited by Slave Mentality; 11-06-2020 at 11:07 AM.

    He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Mini-Me View Post
    I may never forget 2008, but at this point I'll take Rudy "The Ghoul" Giuliani over half this forum.



    Quote Originally Posted by Mini-Me View Post
    As of this week I might even take the corrupt and self-enriching Newt Gingrich. At least he's willing to put his neck out and stand up for something! Despite silence from the globalist collaborators among the DOJ, RNC, and his colleagues, do you know who else was willing to sacrifice $500k for this fight? Lindsey Graham!
    How brave of Graham to "sacrifice" $500k of other peoples' money. Please clap.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mini-Me View Post
    The swamp may be deep, but it is far more complex that we used to think. As it turns out, some of our former enemies are actually real people, and somewhere deep down they still have some American in them. The real battle lines are being drawn now, and they aren't always what we thought they were.

    This is a battle of God vs. Satan, and God works through extremely flawed people, not just the Ron Pauls of the world. I'll take them all, and I'll forgive them for their flaws, because for at least this one time in their lives, they are willing to show some basic decency and courage. At this point, it is their example that we must follow.
    The people that you are talking about are naked grifters who will say and do anything that will result in their personal benefit. They haven't change, and they haven't revealed themselves to be something other than what they used to be. They haven't changed, you have. If you go back to 2008, 2005, 2003, or 2001, and view the entire world through your current "us vs them" / "good vs evil" / "God vs Satan" lens, then Giuliani and Graham and Gingrich were all fantastic patriots then too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mini-Me View Post
    Join, or die.
    No.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Survival trumps liberty every time
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post





    How brave of Graham to "sacrifice" $500k of other peoples' money. Please clap.




    The people that you are talking about are naked grifters who will say and do anything that will result in their personal benefit. They haven't change, and they haven't revealed themselves to be something other than what they used to be. They haven't changed, you have. If you go back to 2008, 2005, 2003, or 2001, and view the entire world through your current "us vs them" / "good vs evil" / "God vs Satan" lens, then Giuliani and Graham and Gingrich were all fantastic patriots then too.




    No.
    You're right that I've changed, but times and circumstances have changed as well. I didn't expect you to understand. My post is for the people who actually care what happens to this country, and I've known that's not you for a very long time.
    Quote Originally Posted by President John F. Kennedy
    And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. That we are only 6% of the world's population, and that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94% of mankind. That we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity, and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.
    I need an education in US history, from the ground up. Can you help point me to a comprehensive, unbiased, scholarly resource?

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Mini-Me View Post
    I didn't expect you to understand. My post is for the people who actually care what happens to this country, and I've known that's not you for a very long time.
    It must be extremely easy living in a world where the only measure of people's caring and goodness is whether or not they agree with you.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Survival trumps liberty every time
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    What you don't seem to understand is that all of the names you listed are all on the same team, working toward that vision that you mentioned in your first sentence. Any opposition is for show. I mean really, 9/11 Rudy? Seriously? Come on man.

    Bidens attended WEF Davos. Trump did too. Kushner and Pompeo quietly attended Bilderberg last year. So did Stacy Abrams. And "libertarian" Peter Thiel. Wise up brother. The battle here is Americans vs them. No publicly presented "face" is there unless it is fully controlled and on board.
    Yes, devil21. 9/11 Rudy. He may be wrong on foreign policy and a slimy jerk, but that doesn't mean that he's an enemy in every possible situation. I'm not saying he's trustworthy. I'm saying he's a net positive for America this month.

    What you don't seem to understand is that pathological thinking that assumes "they're all on the same team" is just a mental model of reality, not reality itself. Reality itself is far more complicated, and projecting an overly simplistic and rigid mental model onto the world without nuance is nothing but a defense mechanism against the difficulty of higher-resolution evaluation.

    President Trump makes a lot of bad picks for advisors. Ron Paul did too. You know what else they share in common? Unprecedented persecution by the establishment. That's a much stronger sign of who Trump is than his attendance at the WEF: I never expected he'd be the kind of guy to reject attendance on principle. He's a pragmatist. What I do expect is that he's an American and not a globalist, and it shows in his actions. He's also far too narcissistic to ever, EVER play the "punching bag" role for show. Not all opposition is for show, and Trump is the real thing, whatever differences we have with him.

    Rand Paul attended Bilderberg once too. Maybe you mistrust him as well, but here's the thing: Just like there is a cost to trusting someone that you shouldn't, there is a cost to assuming everyone is your enemy...and that is being isolated and powerless against your definite enemy to the point of guaranteed loss. There are worse things in this world than the possibility of being made someone's fool. I am not going to hide in my basement while the world burns because I'm too afraid to fight alongside anyone for fear of betrayal. Life requires risk, and I accept that whether you will or not.
    Last edited by Mini-Me; 11-06-2020 at 12:39 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by President John F. Kennedy
    And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. That we are only 6% of the world's population, and that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94% of mankind. That we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity, and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.
    I need an education in US history, from the ground up. Can you help point me to a comprehensive, unbiased, scholarly resource?

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    It must be extremely easy living in a world where the only measure of people's caring and goodness is whether or not they agree with you.
    It must be extremely easy living in a world where you can disingenuously straw man the hell out of people and never feel any shame for it. When you find yourself being smug and condescending in everything you write for years on end, you might want to start looking at yourself in a mirror.
    Last edited by Mini-Me; 11-06-2020 at 11:51 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by President John F. Kennedy
    And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. That we are only 6% of the world's population, and that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94% of mankind. That we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity, and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.
    I need an education in US history, from the ground up. Can you help point me to a comprehensive, unbiased, scholarly resource?



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Slave Mentality View Post
    Word. I would take 10,000 forum posters sitting around bitching and doing NOTHING over one Rudy doing SOMETHING. One is much deadlier than the other.

    Edit: I get where you are going, OP. I feel the same about most of it. Many have tried to convince me that there were political answers to political problems. I strongly disagree.
    I used to agree with the top part...but now, inaction is death. When the New World Order is starving, persecuting, and killing people you know and love, you might then come to have some perspective about what real tyranny is.
    Last edited by Mini-Me; 11-06-2020 at 12:43 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by President John F. Kennedy
    And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. That we are only 6% of the world's population, and that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94% of mankind. That we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity, and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.
    I need an education in US history, from the ground up. Can you help point me to a comprehensive, unbiased, scholarly resource?

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    What you don't seem to understand is that all of the names you listed are all on the same team, working toward that vision that you mentioned in your first sentence. Any opposition is for show. I mean really, 9/11 Rudy? Seriously? Come on man.

    Bidens attended WEF Davos. Trump did too. Kushner and Pompeo quietly attended Bilderberg last year. So did Stacy Abrams. And "libertarian" Peter Thiel. Wise up brother. The battle here is Americans vs them. No publicly presented "face" is there unless it is fully controlled and on board.
    What is weird is people seemed to get this years ago here but I was not onboard until I learned the truth for myself.

  13. #11
    Donít confuse OpSec for fence sitting or doing nothing.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Mini-Me View Post
    The point is, the battle for liberty is no longer about libertarians and Constitutionalists vs. everybody else, fighting a noble quest against the tightening of the noose within a never-ending status quo. It is now about Americans vs. globalist totalitarians and their minions. It is about good vs. evil in the endgame, and the evil is so overwhelmingly pervasive that only converting back to Christianity has helped me comprehend its magnitude and bear its weight.

    I can no longer in good conscience consider libertarians and Constitutionalists my only allies. In fact, so many are so rigid and blind to the sheer magnitude of what is happening that despite our shared ideals about the narrow role of government, I no longer feel much kinship with them at all.

    My allies are now every single good-faith American willing to stand tall and roar for free and fair elections in the face of corrupt totalitarians. My allies are now every single good-faith Christian on Earth, because a time of persecution may be coming swiftly. My allies are now every single person on Earth willing to sacrifice anything short of their souls to reject the New World Order's Great Reset and what follows. It's on the cover of Time Magazine this week, you know. Their promotional material is really something: "You will own nothing. And you will be happy."

    It is time for the people of the world to join together as one unified voice against this madness. Only if we survive as a civilization, let alone a nation, will the differences between honest conservatives, liberals, and libertarians ever matter again. I'll take a single naive wide-eyed "back-the-blue" Kyle Rittenhouse or a liberal Tim Pool over a thousand fence-sitting ideological libertarian know-it-all mockers any day. It is plainly apparent who does more good in this world.

    We should all be far beyond caring that Orange Man Bad is a big-spending soft authoritarian with a wrongly expansive view of government, because it doesn't matter anymore. At this point he is the only living man on Earth with the resolve and leadership qualities to unite millions of honest Americans against the monstrous designs of the New World Order. I'll stand with him proudly to that end, and I'll laugh at his obnoxious character flaws, because life is better with irony.

    I'll take a single Rand Paul or Archbishop Vigano willing to stand up with Orange Caesar over a million forum posting basement dwellers with impeccable NAP scorecards and better monetary/foreign/fiscal/whatever policy recommendations.

    Those of you who consider this fight uninteresting or morally beneath you are as admirable as the Pharisees who Jesus Christ called whitewashed tombs.

    I may never forget 2008, but at this point I'll take Rudy "The Ghoul" Giuliani over half this forum. As of this week I might even take the corrupt and self-enriching Newt Gingrich. At least he's willing to put his neck out and stand up for something! Despite silence from the globalist collaborators among the DOJ, RNC, and his colleagues, do you know who else was willing to sacrifice $500k for this fight? Lindsey Graham! The swamp may be deep, but it is far more complex that we used to think. As it turns out, some of our former enemies are actually real people, and somewhere deep down they still have some American in them. The real battle lines are being drawn now, and they aren't always what we thought they were.

    This is a battle of God vs. Satan, and God works through extremely flawed people, not just the Ron Pauls of the world. I'll take them all, and I'll forgive them for their flaws, because for at least this one time in their lives, they are willing to show some basic decency and courage. At this point, it is their example that we must follow.

    Join, or die. May God forgive us our sins and sloth and deliver us from evil in this dark hour, so that we may escape the terror that awaits us if we fail.
    According to government's own numbers, over half a MILLION people are dead, just in the US alone, because of a man made virus designed to be even more deadly than what would be found in nature, released, possibly on purpose, from a Chinese lab, a virus that that was created from funding and prior research given to the Chinese scientists by our own government because we, in fit of sanity, pulled the plug on funding here.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by cjm View Post
    Don’t confuse OpSec for fence sitting or doing nothing.
    Fair point, but OpSec isn't mutually exclusive with getting organized and vocal to create social proof for a "will not comply" attitude. PerSec might be. There's a tradeoff between influencing people and making yourself a target prematurely, but divided we fall.
    Quote Originally Posted by President John F. Kennedy
    And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. That we are only 6% of the world's population, and that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94% of mankind. That we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity, and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.
    I need an education in US history, from the ground up. Can you help point me to a comprehensive, unbiased, scholarly resource?

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Not gonna lie: A big part of the reason I made this thread was to give you some much-deserved backup. You've been talking sense for years.
    Quote Originally Posted by President John F. Kennedy
    And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. That we are only 6% of the world's population, and that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94% of mankind. That we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity, and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.
    I need an education in US history, from the ground up. Can you help point me to a comprehensive, unbiased, scholarly resource?

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    What you don't seem to understand is that all of the names you listed are all on the same team, working toward that vision that you mentioned in your first sentence. Any opposition is for show. I mean really, 9/11 Rudy? Seriously? Come on man.

    Bidens attended WEF Davos. Trump did too. Kushner and Pompeo quietly attended Bilderberg last year. So did Stacy Abrams. And "libertarian" Peter Thiel. Wise up brother. The battle here is Americans vs them. No publicly presented "face" is there unless it is fully controlled and on board.
    He is saying that hard choices must be made. Sitting on the sidelines because you don't like certain people that are leading the charge is folly. The original 13 colonies faced a similar choice i.e. "we must stand together or we will certainly hang separately"

    The changes that the Democrats have planned will nail the coffin on any pro liberty candidate in the future, and hasten the road to full on European socialism.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    He is saying that hard choices must be made. Sitting on the sidelines because you don't like certain people that are leading the charge is folly. The original 13 colonies faced a similar choice i.e. "we must stand together or we will certainly hang separately"

    The changes that the Democrats have planned will nail the coffin on any pro liberty candidate in the future, and hasten the road to full on European socialism.
    What @devil21 is saying is that at the top there is no $#@!ing difference between Dems & Repubs.

    And, he's right.
    There is no spoon.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    He is saying that hard choices must be made. Sitting on the sidelines because you don't like certain people that are leading the charge is folly. The original 13 colonies faced a similar choice i.e. "we must stand together or we will certainly hang separately"

    The changes that the Democrats have planned will nail the coffin on any pro liberty candidate in the future, and hasten the road to full on European socialism.
    Honestly, I'm pretty convinced that European socialism is nothing more than bait for the trap. We're headed somewhere much darker, and so are they as soon as the United States falls completely under globalist control. Without a miracle, we're in our death throes now.
    Quote Originally Posted by President John F. Kennedy
    And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. That we are only 6% of the world's population, and that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94% of mankind. That we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity, and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.
    I need an education in US history, from the ground up. Can you help point me to a comprehensive, unbiased, scholarly resource?

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    What @devil21 is saying is that at the top there is no $#@!ing difference between Dems & Repubs.

    And, he's right.
    No, Ender. There are differences that were too subtle to notice in 2008, but they've become more apparent now to anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear. Most of the RNC is globalist like the DNC, but the factions are real, even among our enemies. Mitch McConnell won't fare well for long under a packed Supreme Court where the Democrats can win any election ever.

    Moreover, painting in broad brushes erases individuality. Rand Paul is different. Thomas Massie is different. We can better see the difference in them because they align with us politically, but they are not the only ones. Donald Trump, despite not being libertarian, and despite being Donald Trump, is also different from the cabal. Just because they don't draw their lines in the same place as us, does not mean none of them have any lines at all.

    The drama unfolding right now is genuine and historic, and it will have an extraordinary impact on the lives of our children. If we cling to our jaded worldview and fail to recognize the seriousness of the changes that have taken place, we may doom a hundred generations to a slavery worse than anything yet seen on this planet.
    Last edited by Mini-Me; 11-06-2020 at 01:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by President John F. Kennedy
    And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. That we are only 6% of the world's population, and that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94% of mankind. That we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity, and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.
    I need an education in US history, from the ground up. Can you help point me to a comprehensive, unbiased, scholarly resource?

  22. #19
    This is a battle of God vs. Satan, and God works through extremely flawed people, not just the Ron Pauls of the world.
    Agreed. Including through the extremely flawed Joe Biden if that's how things end up.

    "Join, or die" is supposedly a rallying cry. But if your argument is "Come on join me! We got Rudy on our side! (He's better than half the Ron Paul foot soldiers here.)" then sorry for not feeling especially motivated.

    But maybe you didn't mean it as a rallying cry. Maybe you meant it as a threat.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Mini-Me View Post
    No, Ender. There are differences that were too subtle to notice in 2008, but they've become more apparent now to anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear. Most of the RNC is globalist like the DNC, but the factions are real, even among our enemies. Mitch McConnell won't fare well for long under a packed Supreme Court where the Democrats can win any election ever.

    Moreover, painting in broad brushes erases individuality. Rand Paul is different. Thomas Massie is different. We can better see the difference in them because they align with us politically, but they are not the only ones. Donald Trump, despite not being libertarian, and despite being Donald Trump, is also different from the cabal. Just because they don't draw their lines in the same place as us, does not mean they have no lines at all.
    I've never seen any difference in Trump & TPTB- only his bratty mouth.

    Pretty sure he & the Clintons were on the same page in the last election- especially since he had a meeting with them before the run. And, obviously, she's not locked up.
    There is no spoon.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by axiomata View Post
    Agreed. Including through the extremely flawed Joe Biden if that's how things end up.

    "Join, or die" is supposedly a rallying cry. But if your argument is "Come on join me! We got Rudy on our side! (He's better than half the Ron Paul foot soldiers here.)" then sorry for not feeling especially motivated.

    But maybe you didn't mean it as a rallying cry. Maybe you meant it as a threat.
    It's a rallying cry for those willing to understand the gravity of this moment, and you know that. I'm not sure why you're trying to score points on me here. I mentioned Rudy not for his greatness as a selling point, but precisely because of his terribleness. I was making a point.
    Last edited by Mini-Me; 11-06-2020 at 02:17 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by President John F. Kennedy
    And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. That we are only 6% of the world's population, and that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94% of mankind. That we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity, and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.
    I need an education in US history, from the ground up. Can you help point me to a comprehensive, unbiased, scholarly resource?

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I've never seen any difference in Trump & TPTB- only his bratty mouth.

    Pretty sure he & the Clintons were on the same page in the last election- especially since he had a meeting with them before the run. And, obviously, she's not locked up.
    Imagine for the sake of argument that you're the President of the United States, and you are fully committed to cleaning house and bringing justice back to this country.

    Now, try to comprehend how hard it would be to have any justice done when #resist is the order of the day, and everything you do is perceived as a fascist abuse of your office against political opponents, and the vast majority of DOJ and FBI officials at all levels are corrupt political operatives who you have no direct control over. FBI Director Wray is mentioned in the Biden emails as involved with one of the same Russian projects as Hunter Biden, for instance. The President can fire bureaucratic heads and suggest a candidate to the Senate to appoint, from a list of candidates they'd be willing to appoint...but without cooperation from the bureaucracy underneath to follow your priorities and execute their responsibilities faithfully, that's about it.

    What do you do in this situation? No matter who you are, cleaning house in this environment requires breaking a totally overwhelming problem down into smaller pieces that might be possible to address. Step one might be something like...fill 300 federal court vacancies with judges that are as close to originalist as you can find. Is that proof that he's doing his best, by itself? No, but it's at least consistent with the idea that he may very well be, when you really start to think about the magnitude of the task.

    And yes, we really do need to think about it, in great detail. Deep thinking wasn't supposed to stop in 2008, when we thought we reached all the final answers about how the world works, and the perfect ideology for formulaically solving every problem ever on autopilot.

    Look at how they treat him. Just open your eyes. It's worse than Ron Paul. ...speaking of whom, do you recall who spoke up in 2012 that he didn't understand why everyone was ignoring Ron Paul, because he thought Paul had good ideas? Donald Trump.
    Last edited by Mini-Me; 11-06-2020 at 02:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by President John F. Kennedy
    And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. That we are only 6% of the world's population, and that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94% of mankind. That we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity, and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.
    I need an education in US history, from the ground up. Can you help point me to a comprehensive, unbiased, scholarly resource?

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Mini-Me View Post
    Not gonna lie: A big part of the reason I made this thread was to give you some much-deserved backup. You've been talking sense for years.
    Thanks brother, but you have no idea how much I wish I was wrong and was talking gibberish.

    But I don't think so...we're in a tight spot and had better recognize that and join together damn soon.
    According to government's own numbers, over half a MILLION people are dead, just in the US alone, because of a man made virus designed to be even more deadly than what would be found in nature, released, possibly on purpose, from a Chinese lab, a virus that that was created from funding and prior research given to the Chinese scientists by our own government because we, in fit of sanity, pulled the plug on funding here.

  27. #24
    To the OP, I'm sure you have the best intentions. But I also know what they say about them and the road to hell. I'm glad for your Christian awakening. But I have not heard God say "Trump is the way, walk ye in him." I do know that we wrestle not against flesh and blood. I also know that the "You've got to give me unlimited power to fight the Marxists" argument was used by a certain Austrian painter back in the 1930s. I'm not following an "orange Caeser" any more than I would a brown dictator in Obama. I gave grudging tacit support to Trump during the election because he is indeed better than Biden. As much as I loath Lindsey Graham, I am glad he held onto his seat. A lot of money poured into that. For his own selfish reasons he gave some of that money to the Trump legal team. Nice for him. But he's still slime. I'm not even sure what you want people to "join and do" or even why. When it comes to Trump supporters, even taking both halves of this forum, those you love and those you now seem to disdain, that's still a drop in the proverbial bucket and pretty much worthless. I understand the psychological boost of having more people agree with you, but I've learned over these years that such a boost is worth just slightly more than a high priced escort. So, what are you wanting people to do. Go "Yea Trump?" Okay. "Yea Trump." (Spitting the vomit out of my mouth.) Support Rand and Massie as they support Trump and (hopefully) guide him into the right direction? Yeah...most people are already doing that. Obsess even more over a recount that we can't control? Frankly....I've probably done too much of that already. But hey. Cheerlead away. Don't let me stop you.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Mini-Me View Post
    Fair point, but OpSec isn't mutually exclusive with getting organized and vocal to create social proof for a "will not comply" attitude. PerSec might be. There's a tradeoff between influencing people and making yourself a target prematurely, but divided we fall.
    Already been "Will Not Comply" rallies in Washington,,and expect another soon.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Mini-Me View Post
    Imagine for the sake of argument that you're the President of the United States, and you are fully committed to cleaning house and bringing justice back to this country.

    Now, try to comprehend how hard it would be to have any justice done when #resist is the order of the day, and everything you do is perceived as a fascist abuse of your office against political opponents, and the vast majority of DOJ and FBI officials at all levels are corrupt political operatives who you have no direct control over. FBI Director Wray is mentioned in the Biden emails as involved with one of the same Russian projects as Hunter Biden, for instance. The President can fire bureaucratic heads and suggest a candidate to the Senate to appoint, from a list of candidates they'd be willing to appoint...but without cooperation from the bureaucracy underneath to follow your priorities and execute their responsibilities faithfully, that's about it.

    What do you do in this situation? No matter who you are, cleaning house in this environment requires breaking a totally overwhelming problem down into smaller pieces that might be possible to address. Step one might be something like...fill 300 federal court vacancies with judges that are as close to originalist as you can find. Is that proof that he's doing his best, by itself? No, but it's at least consistent with the idea that he may very well be, when you really start to think about the magnitude of the task.

    And yes, we really do need to think about it, in great detail. Deep thinking wasn't supposed to stop in 2008, when we thought we reached all the final answers about how the world works, and the perfect ideology for formulaically solving every problem ever on autopilot.

    Look at how they treat him. Just open your eyes. It's worse than Ron Paul. ...speaking of whom, do you recall who spoke up in 2012 that he didn't understand why everyone was ignoring Ron Paul, because he thought Paul had good ideas? Donald Trump.
    I'm considered pretty adept in marketing & the way the MSM treats Trump is NOTHING like Ron Paul.

    Ron was HE-WHO-MUST-NOT-BE-NAMED. he was never mentioned- his name left out in caucuses where he came in #1 or #2. He did NOT exist- he was too dangerous to TPTB & he was to be buried.

    Trump is part of the Political Kabuki Theatre. Billions of bucks in free advertising & promotion- doesn't matter if it's negative- the saying is there's no such thing as "bad" promotion- and is very true. Many here love Trump because of that "bad" promotion, which is it's exact purpose.

    Trump surrounds himself with "Swamp" creatures & everyone says it's not his fault- when it was Obama, everyone was screaming. The Warp-Speed vaccination carp should be enough to warn everyone that something dangerous is afoot- BUT, if Trump does it, it's OK.

    It's time to get out of The Matrix and

    WAKE UP.

    There is no spoon.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I'm considered pretty adept in marketing & the way the MSM treats Trump is NOTHING like Ron Paul.

    Ron was HE-WHO-MUST-NOT-BE-NAMED. he was never mentioned- his name left out in caucuses where he came in #1 or #2. He did NOT exist- he was too dangerous to TPTB & he was to be buried.

    Trump is part of the Political Kabuki Theatre. Billions of bucks in free advertising & promotion- doesn't matter if it's negative- the saying is there's no such thing as "bad" promotion- and is very true. Many here love Trump because of that "bad" promotion, which is it's exact purpose.

    Trump surrounds himself with "Swamp" creatures & everyone says it's not his fault- when it was Obama, everyone was screaming. The Warp-Speed vaccination carp should be enough to warn everyone that something dangerous is afoot- BUT, if Trump does it, it's OK.

    It's time to get out of The Matrix and

    WAKE UP.

    I'm willing to cede every one of your points here.

    I've made it clear many many times why I voted Trump and encouraged others to do so.

    It is not worth repeating those reasons yet again, as they are moot...Trump lost and Biden will be appointed president with all that entails.

    Leaving aside the side show distractions of the political Kabuki theater you rightly note, what is to be done next, when it is clear that a very real pogrom is about to be launched against us.

    My idea to buy time, and stave it off for another four years by supporting Trump has failed.

    Whose idea should we try next?

    Mini-Me's idea is to rally around the election and claim fraud to buy that time, which is very likely to have happened, but in my post in another thread on this, I point out that, IMO there was no more fraud than any other election, which is to say quite a bit of fraud, but almost impossible to prove, and again, would be moot if there were enough numbers one way or the other.

    I agree very much however, we should Join or Die...in order to Separate or die.
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 11-06-2020 at 05:07 PM.
    According to government's own numbers, over half a MILLION people are dead, just in the US alone, because of a man made virus designed to be even more deadly than what would be found in nature, released, possibly on purpose, from a Chinese lab, a virus that that was created from funding and prior research given to the Chinese scientists by our own government because we, in fit of sanity, pulled the plug on funding here.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I'm willing to cede every one of your points here.

    I've made it clear many many times why I voted Trump and encouraged others to do so.

    It is not worth repeating those reasons yet again, as they are moot...Trump lost and Biden will be appointed president with all that entails.

    Leaving aside the side show distractions of the political Kabuki theater you rightly note, what is to be done next, when it is clear that a very real pogrom is about to be launched against us.

    My idea to buy time, and stave it off for another four years by supporting Trump has failed.

    Whose idea should we try next?
    Grey Man until enough are ready to stand together.

    And then.....

    There is no spoon.

  33. #29
    The rhetoric coming out of the left has been clear enough. Either a coalition forms to stop them, or everyone falls separately.

    I will cast my lot with the likes of Mini-Me and Anti Federalist without any hesitation. I know kindred spirits when I see them. I will also accept any ally in this cause regardless of what I perceive their flaws to be. For whatever disagreements conservatives, libertarians, and, hell, even neoconservatives have, we don't want to forcefully ruin each other's lives. The left will seek the destruction of any opposition with the approval of their own conscious.

    I would love nothing more than the absolute destruction of the left and the ability for conservatives, libertarians, and even neoconservatives to work out a way to have a healthy functioning society for themselves. Hell, each group could even have their own geographic area and live separately. However, there will be no peace so long as this incarnation of the left exists. They want revenge, blood, and to erase the history of a country they despise. No amount of philosophical purity testing will combat that.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I'm considered pretty adept in marketing & the way the MSM treats Trump is NOTHING like Ron Paul.

    Ron was HE-WHO-MUST-NOT-BE-NAMED. he was never mentioned- his name left out in caucuses where he came in #1 or #2. He did NOT exist- he was too dangerous to TPTB & he was to be buried.

    Trump is part of the Political Kabuki Theatre. Billions of bucks in free advertising & promotion- doesn't matter if it's negative- the saying is there's no such thing as "bad" promotion- and is very true. Many here love Trump because of that "bad" promotion, which is it's exact purpose.

    Trump surrounds himself with "Swamp" creatures & everyone says it's not his fault- when it was Obama, everyone was screaming. The Warp-Speed vaccination carp should be enough to warn everyone that something dangerous is afoot- BUT, if Trump does it, it's OK.

    It's time to get out of The Matrix and

    WAKE UP.

    No, Ender. They didn't ignore Donald Trump starting out, because they thought he was too ridiculous to be a real threat at first. They laughed. Then they fought. Then he won. Now they're actually trying to do the "ignoring" part by constantly censoring him. They don't ignore him entirely, but they certainly ignore any story that helps him...say, the Biden laptop story.

    I get it. Trump doesn't fit your mental model of an outsider...but your mental model is broken here.
    Quote Originally Posted by President John F. Kennedy
    And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. That we are only 6% of the world's population, and that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94% of mankind. That we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity, and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.
    I need an education in US history, from the ground up. Can you help point me to a comprehensive, unbiased, scholarly resource?

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