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Thread: Germany Owes Greece €185 Billion In WWII Reparations, Say German Researchers

  1. #1

    Germany Owes Greece €185 Billion In WWII Reparations, Say German Researchers

    Does Germany owe Greeks billions of euros in World War II reparations for the damages and the enforced loan during the occupation of the country by the Nazis? So far, Berlin has vehemently rejected any Greek claims.

    However, as Keep Talking Greece reports, two German researchers, who dug into the documents of the dispute, have discovered and calculated that the German state owes Greece 185 billion euros.
    Of this not even a 1% has been paid to Greece.
    In their book “Reparation debt. Mortgages of German occupation in Greece and Europe” publishers Karl Heinz Roth, a historian, and Hartmut Rübner, a researcher, unfold the documents of the dispute and come to the conclusion that the reparations issue was not solved in 1960, as Berlin has been claiming.


    The authors make a special reference to former Chancellor Helmut Kohl who managed to avoid reparation payments when the two German states were reunified in 1990 and the 2+4 Treaty.
    Before the reunification, Kohl was claiming that reparation demands were premature. After the reunification, he claimed they were too late.
    Roth and Rübner now plea for the recognition of the German “reparations debt” towards Greece.
    So far, Greece has tabled two proposals: one referred to 287billion euros, and one, the official one to 162 billion euros.
    Perhaps Germany allowing Greece to write off its TARGET2 net claims would be a good start...


    More at: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-1...an-researchers



    There are too many wars brewing inside the EU, sooner or later one of them will boil over and then they will all break out.
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  3. #2
    Greece is about to launch a campaign to claim €280 billion ($323 billion) in war reparations from Germany, reports Der Spiegel.

    The German magazine notes that as long as Greece was dependent on EU support, Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras had avoided raising the issue. But now, after the end of the third bailout program, Athens is ready to take initiatives to claim the money, it says.
    The issue is resurfacing a few days before the official visit of Germany’s President Frank-Walter Steinmeier to Athens where he will meet the President of the Republic Prokopis Pavlopoulos and Tsipras.
    Der Spiegel says it is no coincidence that the two highest ranking Greek politicians have both raised the issue in the last few days.
    It marks the beginning of a long campaign, which, according to the German magazine, will start in November.
    The Greek Parliament will endorse an audit report ready since August 2016, according to which Greece is entitled to €269.5 billion of repairs from the Second World War.
    In addition, Greece demands the repayment of a €10.3 billion occupation loan.


    More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...ations-germany
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    Six months since Der Speigel revealed a 2016 report detailing the cost of Germany's Nazi occupation of the nation during World War II, the Greek Parliament voted Wednesday to demand Germany pay reparations for those damages.

    As we noted previously the audit report, ready since August 2016, claims Greece is entitled to €269.5 billion of repairs from the Second World War. In addition, Greece demands the repayment of a €10.3 billion occupation loan.
    «The claim for German war reparations is a historical and moral debt for us» Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras @PrimeministerGR said, adding that it would help «build a better future with Germany». «It is our duty to give both people the chance to close this chapter» pic.twitter.com/1gmG4Pz0Zj
    — Greece in Stockholm (@GreeceStockholm) April 18, 2019
    Having emerged from a decade of Troika-imposed austerity in the past year, Tsipras, a leftist, said his government did not want to link the two issues (imposed austerity and reparations), responding to criticism over the parliament’s delayed response to the report on the matter issued in 2016.


    More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...ations-germany
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  5. #4
    This kinda thing is going to make some people mad. Reminds me of the Treaty of versailles.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles

    Of the many provisions in the treaty, one of the most important and controversial required "Germany [to] accept the responsibility of Germany and her allies for causing all the loss and damage" during the war (the other members of the Central Powers signed treaties containing similar articles). This article, Article 231, later became known as the War Guilt clause. The treaty required Germany to disarm, make ample territorial concessions, and pay reparations to certain countries that had formed the Entente powers.

    Now, add to this the massive infusion of immigrants that Germany accepted in recent years. It's not to hard to see how all this could be used to advance a Nationalist Agenda.


    This ultimately set the tone among the German people (back then) and a huge reason why Hitler was so successful.
    Last edited by Pauls' Revere; 04-19-2019 at 11:05 PM.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    This kinda thing is going to make some people mad. Reminds me of the Treaty of versailles.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles

    Of the many provisions in the treaty, one of the most important and controversial required "Germany [to] accept the responsibility of Germany and her allies for causing all the loss and damage" during the war (the other members of the Central Powers signed treaties containing similar articles). This article, Article 231, later became known as the War Guilt clause. The treaty required Germany to disarm, make ample territorial concessions, and pay reparations to certain countries that had formed the Entente powers.


    This ultimately set the tone among the German people and a huge reason why Hitler was so successful.
    The EU will not end with a whimper, it will go out with a bang.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The EU will not end with a whimper, it will go out with a bang.
    Brexit will happen, Britain (as a system) will retract and enter into a phase of self-preservation but remain engaged to maintain economic strength and influence over resources.

    France will be the last holdout and Martyr itself as the Savior of the E.U. Scandinavia will form its own alliances. Spain will remain neutral (like Britain but not as powerful) unless drawn into conflict like Italy. However, Italy (most probably) allies with the Balkan States and Greece forming a Southern alliance.

    Eastern Europe holds its own, caught between these forces and Russia, some ebb and flow of borders here. Mother Russia remains.


    Thats what my tea leaves look like, what about yours?

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    Brexit will happen, Britain (as a system) will retract and enter into a phase of self-preservation but remain engaged to maintain economic strength and influence over resources.

    France will be the last holdout and Martyr itself as the Savior of the E.U. Scandinavia will form its own alliances. Spain will remain neutral (like Britain but not as powerful) unless drawn into conflict like Italy. However, Italy (most probably) allies with the Balkan States and Greece forming a Southern alliance.

    Eastern Europe holds its own, caught between these forces and Russia, some ebb and flow of borders here. Mother Russia remains.


    Thats what my tea leaves look like, what about yours?
    That sounds quite possible.
    My tea leaves are less certain and have lots more possibilities all competing with eachother but here is my best guess at a few elements:

    France and Germany will stick together and attempt to maintain the EU by force unless the Yellow Vests topple Macron and replace him with a Eurosceptic and/or AFD takes power in Germany.

    Germany is in trouble no matter what happens because Greece and others have built up a lot of resentment against them.

    Russia will get involved but only after letting the EU countries wear eachother down first, it will probably find a few E. European countries to invite it to come to their aid.

    The muslims will try to take over in the chaos and they may get help from muslim countries like Turkey.

    When it's all over it will be followed by a "Crusade" against islam.

    I predict a new European empire will form on the ashes of the EU and then break up again but it won't take as long this time.

    China will not get involved either because they have collapsed themselves or because they want to benefit by being neutral and letting Europe destroy itself.

    The Swiss may be attacked for the first time in centuries.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That sounds quite possible.
    My tea leaves are less certain and have lots more possibilities all competing with eachother but here is my best guess at a few elements:

    France and Germany will stick together and attempt to maintain the EU by force unless the Yellow Vests topple Macron and replace him with a Eurosceptic and/or AFD takes power in Germany.

    Germany is in trouble no matter what happens because Greece and others have built up a lot of resentment against them.

    Russia will get involved but only after letting the EU countries wear eachother down first, it will probably find a few E. European countries to invite it to come to their aid.

    The muslims will try to take over in the chaos and they may get help from muslim countries like Turkey.

    When it's all over it will be followed by a "Crusade" against islam.

    I predict a new European empire will form on the ashes of the EU and then break up again but it won't take as long this time.

    China will not get involved either because they have collapsed themselves or because they want to benefit by being neutral and letting Europe destroy itself.

    The Swiss may be attacked for the first time in centuries.
    I think then, we agree that its going to be a game of who makes the biggest mistake first. I disagree Re: the Swiss all this will be bankrolled by them (again) through loans etc.

    You bring up a more local view, Not sure Re: Yellow Vest, that's about wages and taxes easily manipulated and quelled by Macron and E.U. Deep State.

    I'm keeping my eye on a political rise of Nationalism throughout the E.U. I think a stronger; that is to say, more right than far right than AFD emerges. If Germany goes through this again they are going to go more hard core than before. I just don't see how they lay down and take it. Merkel gets dragged through the streets like Qaddafi. But Germany will not go gently into the night, just ask Rome.

    BTW, NATO is broken at this point as well. Russia postures but waits patiently for the $#@!tards in the EU to jack off in a circle jerk. France becomes unless except for cheese and wine and a meat puppet for Britain and the US.
    Last edited by Pauls' Revere; 04-20-2019 at 12:21 AM.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    I think then, we agree that its going to be a game of who makes the biggest mistake first.
    Yes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    I disagree Re: the Swiss all this will be bankrolled by them (again) through loans etc.
    It's not one of my most confident speculations but I expect that debt will be a very large issue in the wars and the Swiss just might find themselves attacked over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    You bring up a more local view, Not sure Re: Yellow Vest, that's about wages and taxes easily manipulated and quelled by Macron and E.U. Deep State.
    Definitely an unknown at this point, your estimation that France will be the last standing champion of the EU is quite possible if the Yellow Vests don't move on from protesting and either revolt or organize politically, especially since they are united by what they oppose more than by what they support.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    I'm keeping my eye on a political rise of Nationalism throughout the E.U. I think a stronger; that is to say, more right than far right than AFD emerges. If Germany goes through this again they are going to go more hard core than before. I just don't see how they lay down and take it. Merkel gets dragged through the streets like Qaddafi. But Germany will not go gently into the night.
    Germany is at a cultural crossroads, they will either go very far right as you predict or they will cease to exist as a nation, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't split into 2 or more states and/or merge with other countries like France and/or Austria.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    BTW, NATO is broken at this point as well. Russia postures but waits patiently for the $#@!tards in the EU to jack off in a circle jerk. France becomes unless except for cheese and wine and a meat puppet for Britain and the US.
    NATO is a zombie that just doesn't know it is dead yet, hopefully the US will withdraw from Europe when NATO collapses but Perfidious Albion will definitely try to use anyone it can to do its fighting for it, they always do and they still have hopes of ruling Europe in spite of BREXIT.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes.



    It's not one of my most confident speculations but I expect that debt will be a very large issue in the wars and the Swiss just might find themselves attacked over it.

    Hmmm, and a forced dissolved debts owed, this would be through unconditional surrender. interesting.


    Definitely an unknown at this point, your estimation that France will be the last standing champion of the EU is quite possible if the Yellow Vests don't move on from protesting and either revolt or organize politically, especially since they are united by what they oppose more than by what they support.

    Good point, lets see if they move to be a political power. My guess is no because they (and their cause) will be the new battle cry for the French Unions. But it could happen.

    Germany is at a cultural crossroads, they will either go very far right as you predict or they will cease to exist as a nation, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't split into 2 or more states and/or merge with other countries like France and/or Austria.

    Disagree here: Germany will retain its roots, history etc..and will not go gently into the night.


    NATO is a zombie that just doesn't know it is dead yet, hopefully the US will withdraw from Europe when NATO collapses but Perfidious Albion will definitely try to use anyone it can to do its fighting for it, they always do and they still have hopes of ruling Europe in spite of BREXIT.
    US will require EU to pay up, but like Russia "posture" to maintain a seat at the political table and to counter weight Russia. BTW, keep an eye if we require more from the EU in regards to NATO contributions. Our own debt and deficits will cause that to rise further agitating the EU. This will further cause their budgets to swell thus more taxes upon them and their Socialist System starts to strain. Again, more Yellow Vest type riots. But, Socialist control pushes them deeper into the abyss.

    This becomes a battle of systems or ideologies. Socialist and the pockets thereof and the Nationalist (think New Germany) this essentially were the driving ideologies behind WW2 Fasicism and Communism. This time it'll be a trifecta, Commies in the East, Nationalist in the North and Socialist in France. Possibly the South as well as in Italy, Greece, Balkans.
    Last edited by Pauls' Revere; 04-20-2019 at 12:48 AM.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    US will require EU to pay up, but like Russia "posture" to maintain a seat at the political table and to counter weight Russia. BTW, keep an eye if we require more from the EU in regards to NATO contributions. Our own debt and deficits will cause that to rise further agitating the EU.
    Trump has already said he will demand cost+50% to keep hosting our bases and they already tried out a beta test of that on S. Korea, the S. Korean deal for them to pay more of our costs only lasts for a year and I expect they will get the full cost+50% treatment when it ends.

    I'm hoping that they refuse and we pick up our toys and come home.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump has already said he will demand cost+50% to keep hosting our bases and they already tried out a beta test of that on S. Korea, the S. Korean deal for them to pay more of our costs only lasts for a year and I expect they will get the full cost+50% treatment when it ends.

    I'm hoping that they refuse and we pick up our toys and come home.
    Won't happen without Kim Un and a strong UN international watchdog agency. Not that that'll help, (see IRAQ) but the North would have to capitulate and have a seat in the political body of S>K>

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    Won't happen without Kim Un and a strong UN international watchdog agency. Not that that'll help, (see IRAQ) but the North would have to capitulate and have a seat in the political body of S>K>
    Stranger things have happened.

    I do think the odds of European countries refusing the cost+50% deal and us leaving are higher though.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Stranger things have happened.

    I do think the odds of European countries refusing the cost+50% deal and us leaving are higher though.
    Yeah lets see if they can even pay what their contribution now before we go 50+ LOL tellin ya the EU Socialist are going to have to change it up to keep their BS afloat. Going to interesting to see what thier political paties say (or don't) to maintain the mantra and message to keep themselves in power as the average Joe (or Jaque) gets screwed. Again a rise of the right in France or a hard socialist movement.

  17. #15

  18. #16
    Germany’s armed forces are currently studying the possibility of acquiring nuclear bombers capable of using the new American B61-12 atomic bombs.

    Meanwhile, the Pentagon itself plans to deploy these new atomic bombs in the German region of Eifel, in violation of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.
    The German air force already has multi-tasking Tornado warplanes, which are already capable of deploying American atomic bombs. But those aircraft are going to be replaced, possibly, by European-developed Eurofighters, or by United States manufactured F/A-18 Super Hornets.
    Either way, the warplane that Germany selects will have to be equipped with the AMAC (Aircraft Monitoring and Control) system, which allows the use of the new American atomic bombs and enables the regulation of the power of the explosion as well as at what height the bombs explode after they are launched.
    Germany does not manufacture atomic weapons but has come to consider itself as a nuclear power because it has vectors to use them, and believes that this gives it the right to sit on the UN Security Council sharing the permanent member position occupied by France.
    Both countries would thus represent the European Union, under the auspices of NATO.


    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...uclear-bombers
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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