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Thread: What has the alt-right accomplished?

  1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul in 2008 View Post
    What do you mean? Please be specific.
    EEO and minority quotas are two easy ones to research.

    The F2D - F3D federal registers are also rife with both case law and theory that depending on the issue litigated will provide you with specifics.

    If you're serious about learning how government protects itself a subscription to Lexis-Nexis is a little cheaper than enrolling in law school but not much....



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  3. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The world is the way it is at any given moment because that's the way the people with the might want it to be.

    The world is not the way you want it to be because you and like-minded persons don't have the might to make it that way.

    If might is right, then the status quo is always right. Is that your position?

    ...which is another way of saying that "might is right" is an asinine moral principle, amounting to "whatever happens is good."
    I think you're misunderstanding. My point is that our rights are not derived from God, they are derived from the desire for peace, security, and happiness. There are no rights without like-minded people coming together to create law and order to protect the "rights" that they think they should have. In nature there are no rights because whomever is more powerful can do whatever they want.

  4. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by misterx View Post
    Then where do they come from? There are no rights in nature except that who is stronger will get his way.
    There are also no pants in nature and yet I have pants.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Survival trumps liberty every time
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  5. #544
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    There are also no pants in nature and yet I have pants.
    So you have a right to have pants? I guess we need to buy pants for all 7 billion people in the world since their natural rights demand it.
    Last edited by misterx; 08-13-2016 at 11:41 PM.



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  7. #545
    Quote Originally Posted by misterx View Post
    There are no rights without like-minded people coming together to create law and order to protect the "rights" that they think they should have.
    Sounds pretty accurate to me!

    There are also no pants in nature and yet I have pants.
    Exactly! Look, smartypants, that was Mr. X's whole point. Try importing millions of highly fertile people who don't believe in pants into your country and, lo and behold!: your grandchildren will not wear pants! Surprise! This is really elementary population dynamics, really elementary biology, really elementary logic.

    In the words of Mr. X, without like-minded people coming together to design pants, build and staff plants to manufacture pants, demand pants in all social situations, bring overwhelming pressure to bear on non-pants-wearers, etc., etc., the institution of pants will simply not survive.

  8. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by misterx View Post
    There are no rights without
    like-minded people
    coming together to create law and order
    to protect the "rights"
    that they think they should have.
    holy hell you misunderstand liberty
    rights don't come from "law and order"




    "The Tahitian savage therefore knows as well as Locke"


    the rights of men are self evident truths
    Last edited by presence; 08-15-2016 at 09:51 AM.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  9. #547
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    Rights don't come from "law and order"
    Rights, Law, and Order -- three peas in the same pod. Three words for the same concept: humans respecting each others' prerogatives, forming a society.

    the rights of men are self evident truths
    Well, rights may or may not be self-existent or self-evident, but with a lack of persons who believe in, espouse, respect, and defend each others' rights, those rights are not going to be in any sense of reality actually evident. They will not.... evince. We will see precious little evidence of their actually existing and playing a powerful role in our actual lives here in reality.

    Rights are an idea. A particularly abstract, high-level idea. And like all ideas, they have no power whatsoever of their own. They are only given power by actors who choose to let those ideas take up root and residence in their own minds, and then have the courage and commitment to choose their physical actions based upon them. Otherwise, they have no presence, no place, and no effect in physical reality.

    Now Locke was a man who took up these ideas. Locke gave these ideas a huge place in reality, through his enormously heroic actions. The random "Tahitian savage" did not. Which is the hero for Liberty? Locke.
    Last edited by helmuth_hubener; 08-15-2016 at 12:01 PM.

  10. #548
    Quote Originally Posted by misterx View Post
    I think you're misunderstanding. My point is that our rights are not derived from God, they are derived from the desire for peace, security, and happiness.
    I agree

    There are no rights without like-minded people coming together to create law and order to protect the "rights" that they think they should have. In nature there are no rights because whomever is more powerful can do whatever they want.
    In this thread, you've been not only describing the state of nature, but advocating for it.

    i.e. you've been saying not only that a group can violate the rights of outsiders (of course they can), you've been saying they should
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 08-20-2016 at 01:08 PM.

  11. #549
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post

    Originally Posted by misterx
    our rights are not derived from God, they are derived from the desire for peace, security, and happiness.
    I agree

    I completely disagree with you two. As did the framers.

    Your thoughts on this, I think, are indicative of the gradual erosion of virtue within the cause. Which, by the way, is the most unrecognized threat to Liberty today. Without public virtue, there cannot and will not be Liberty. Not if its foundation for moral code is rejected. As was mentioned elsewhere, that foundation contemplates that The Individual's moral duty as being created by God's Law. The Natural Law. The Individual's duty requires obedience to this Higher Law. The "the desire for peace, security, and happiness" (proper human relations) is the product of the spiritual brotherhood of men under the common fatherhood of God. God's Law. Again, the Natural Law.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 08-20-2016 at 01:47 PM.

  12. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    Rights, Law, and Order -- three peas in the same pod.
    Nope.
    Rights- God Given. or a natural state.. Natural Law.
    Rights are,,and exist.. They are neither given nor taken.

    Law- is another thing. the dividing of right and wrong.
    Without law there is no crime.

    Order-? WTF?
    What is that,, order? Who's order,, Top to bottom.. or other way around?
    Alphabetical or numerical ?
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  13. #551


    I live for this stuff.
    Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018

  14. #552
    Quote Originally Posted by misterx View Post
    I think you're misunderstanding. My point is that our rights are not derived from God, they are derived from the desire for peace, security, and happiness. There are no rights without like-minded people coming together to create law and order to protect the "rights" that they think they should have. In nature there are no rights because whomever is more powerful can do whatever they want.
    This is completely wrong. Rights have nothing to do with a desire for anything. Rights are God-given. People who want peace, security, and happiness understand that. Oppressors think rights are given by government. That's why they seek power and wealth for themselves. It helps them oppress others.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi



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  16. #553
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Nope.
    Rights- God Given. or a natural state.. Natural Law.
    Rights are,,and exist.. They are neither given nor taken.

    Law- is another thing. the dividing of right and wrong.
    Without law there is no crime.

    Order-? WTF?
    What is that,, order? Who's order,, Top to bottom.. or other way around?
    Alphabetical or numerical ?
    You don't actually disagree with me. This is just semantics. Terminology. A product of the fact that all three of the words in question have many (many!) current and perfectly legitimate definitions extant and in-the-wild.

    In other words: You're right, Pete! Just cross out that first word ("Nope"), which was the only part of your post which expressed any disagreement with me, and we are in total agreement.

    Euphemia and Mister X, you guys don't actually disagree with each other either (you've run into the same linguistical ambiguity), at least not necessarily.
    Last edited by helmuth_hubener; 08-20-2016 at 07:28 PM.

  17. #554
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    You don't actually disagree with me. This is just semantics. Terminology. A product of the fact that all three of the words in question have many (many!) current and perfectly legitimate definitions extant and in-the-wild.

    In other words: You're right, Pete! Just cross out that first word ("Nope"), which was the only part of your post which expressed any disagreement with me, and we are in total agreement.

    Euphemia and Mister X, you guys don't actually disagree with each other either (you've run into the same linguistical ambiguity), at least not necessarily.
    Nope.. it is that "order" stuff.

    as in new world order,,

    More Authoritarian bull$#@!. I prefer a Natural order.. which is caotic.
    I also have a pretty good understanding of entropy

    Which is what you are seeing.

    "Order"? again I ask,, who's order?
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  18. #555
    Natural order is not chaotic. It is natural order. When people forget their Creator or try to get outside the created order, chaos happens.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  19. #556
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Nope.. it is that "order" stuff.
    How about: Spontaneous order? A fan of that one?

    Yep. Thought so.

  20. #557
    Or how about the term you used: Natural order?

    That is the kind of order I like. I'm no fan of fiat, arbitrary "order" as defined by fiat, arbitrary decrees from incompetent, two-bit, authority-less bureau-rats and tyrants (That nonsense actually causes dis-order.).

    I'd venture to say you aren't either. We are in agreement.

  21. #558
    Quote Originally Posted by misterx View Post
    I think you're misunderstanding. My point is that our rights are not derived from God, they are derived from the desire for peace, security, and happiness. There are no rights without like-minded people coming together to create law and order to protect the "rights" that they think they should have. In nature there are no rights because whomever is more powerful can do whatever they want.
    And where did a desire for peace, security and happiness come from? Nature? Yes those ants, honeybees and termites sure love being at peace and happy. We could survive just fine as a species without pesky things like love of art and beauty or the desire for self determination or the drive to question what is beyond the expanse of our own planet. Who needs love and compassion in survival of the fittest? The greatest and best aspects of our humanity seem to derive from something far greater than mere nature. I call that something (or rather someone), God. The founding fathers felt the same.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  22. #559
    They forced NPR to get rid of comment sections, thus losing some of their audience & traffic.
    BOWLING GREEN, Kentucky – Washington liberals are trying to push through the so-called DREAM Act, which creates an official path to Democrat voter registration for 2 million college-age illegal immigrants.
    Rand Paul 2010

    Booker T. Washington:
    Cast it down among the eight millions of Negroes whose habits you know, whose
    fidelity and love you have tested in days when to have proved treacherous meant the ruin of your firesides.

  23. #560
    Clinton is going to try to link Trump to alt right & to banning or demonizing the gawkers/ buzzfeeds/SJW sites of the right.
    BOWLING GREEN, Kentucky – Washington liberals are trying to push through the so-called DREAM Act, which creates an official path to Democrat voter registration for 2 million college-age illegal immigrants.
    Rand Paul 2010

    Booker T. Washington:
    Cast it down among the eight millions of Negroes whose habits you know, whose
    fidelity and love you have tested in days when to have proved treacherous meant the ruin of your firesides.



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  25. #561
    Quote Originally Posted by misterx View Post
    So you have a right to have pants? I guess we need to buy pants for all 7 billion people in the world since their natural rights demand it.
    Your Freedom to be you includes my freedom to be free from you.


  26. #562
    All of you hyper atomized people are like a guy in a zombie apocalypse who refuses to cooperate with other humans because you don't think you have anything in common with them beyond mere humanity. Don't say we didn't warn you when the zombies eat you.






    If you have not interest in fighting the zombies, then by default you you're interested in being eaten.

    You have common interests in that you're a TARGET of identity politics by other groups. Zombies don't give a $#@! about your opinion on tax policy or the deficit. They don't even give a $#@! about your opinion on zombies, they just want to rip your face off.




    Just like how other groups do not care about your rights, or our culture, values, or Liberty..



  27. #563
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    My point is to determine whether you really believe that non-Americans have no rights, as your earlier post implied.



    No, not in the slightest

    I have no moral obligation to feed them.

    I do, however, have a moral obligation to not slaughter them for my own entertainment, because they have the same right to live as I do.

    Agreed?
    They have no right to come here

    They have no right to limit or degenerate our rights, liberties, or futures

    They have not right to impose upon us their flawed and failed ideals, cultures, values, and political views.

  28. #564
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Oppression by a racist government would be a form of tyranny.
    Is it racist to keep out groups who will vote way your rights?

    Is it racist to stop immigration as to maintain a majority in the nation that was founded for is founding stock?


    The issue isn't whether or not race-based tyranny would continue in a ethnonationalist society, but as with other points, whether the cause of the societal problems is an issue inherent to race or not. If the cause is not race, then trying to solve the problem with a race-based solution will not be productive.
    It is an issue inherent to race.


    Incompatible visions of society are an inevitable consequence of multiculturalism. Antagonistic cultures guarantee warfare, political or real, as cultural factions seek to compel their visions of law and behavior, and use society to redistribute wealth and power from others to their faction members. Multiculturalism is thus an observable failure and a hopelessly naive goal. Peace and prosperity are promoted in homogeneous polities.

    [I know, I know, too verbose. I just like to pound home the point that we have problems with BLM, Aztlan, arguments about open borders, even the egregious violations of equality before the law of Affirmative Action, because factions in the USA use political power to enrich their members while bullying and robbing their competitors. No such BS would exist in a place where people all share a much closer notion of social standards and where the spectrum of personal abilities has nothing to do with the excuse of physical appearance.]


    As opposed to superior, problem-free homogeneous ones?
    Yes, how many race based issues do you find in Switzerland, South Korea, or Japan.







    You've tried to frame my argument in a stereotypical liberal position wherein if I'm not supporting your side then I must present the opposing line of thought. Multiculturalism good vs. multiculturalism bad.
    The facts prove that multiculturalism is a bad thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    EDIT:
    It's apparent to me by a rep and this quote that I did a poor job of communicating here, so I'm going to rephrase:

    The idea that the rights of non-Americans come from an American piece of paper is patently ridiculous.
    https://neociceroniantimes.wordpress...s-and-liberty/



    As to how we can shut down the mistaken belief, anyone who genuinely believes that people derive their rights from their government is a raging statist and isn't worth arguing with. Others who don't actually believe this but see it as politically expedient for their (statist) goals just need to realize that 1) letting government decide who has rights and who does not means that everyone is only one piece of paper away from tyranny, and 2) there is a long history of the frightened giving their government a power to use against "those" people (for various kids of "those") only to later find that power used against them. See also: PATRIOT act, etc.
    Once again, maybe we should learn from this lesson and stop import groups who are most likely to commit acts of terrorism as so the state does not have some excuse.

  29. #565
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Allow me to summarize your reply:

    "I already know everything that I need to know because I read about it on the internet!"
    So you have no come back, shocking when facts are brought up your cliches fall apart.

  30. #566
    The Alt-Right's most recent accomplishment was to cause Hillary to stumble up to a podium and babble some Alzheimer tainted nonsense about how Putin, Trump, and Farage are all in cahoots about something or another. It was all fairly incoherent, but she didn't start floppin' her head around and bark like a dog this time.

    For Democrats, that in itself was a moral victory.

  31. #567
    Account Restricted. Admin to review account standing


    Posts
    28,739
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    bump.

  32. #568
    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
    The Alt-Right's most recent accomplishment was to cause Hillary to stumble up to a podium and babble some Alzheimer tainted nonsense about how Putin, Trump, and Farage are all in cahoots about something or another. It was all fairly incoherent, but she didn't start floppin' her head around and bark like a dog this time.

    For Democrats, that in itself was a moral victory.



    We were the finishing blow..



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  34. #569
    The alt-right didn't accomplish this. Most Trump voters want nothing to do with the alt-right.
    Stop believing stupid things

  35. #570
    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    The alt-right didn't accomplish this. Most Trump voters want nothing to do with the alt-right.
    Best evidence of this is that the alt-right is primarily a young movement, and it's breathtakingly obvious from the election demographics that young people were in no way involved with Trump's victory.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Survival trumps liberty every time
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

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