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Thread: US Appeals Court deems gun law unconstitutional

  1. #1

    US Appeals Court deems gun law unconstitutional

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...onstitutional/

    A federal appeals court in Cincinnati deemed a law unconstitutional that kept a Michigan man who was committed to a mental institution from owning a gun.

    The three-judge panel of the Sixth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals unanimously ruled that a federal ban on gun ownership for those who have been committed to a mental institution violated the Second Amendment rights of 73-yearold Clifford Charles Tyler.

    Tyler attempted to buy a gun and was denied on the grounds that he had been committed to a mental institution in 1986 after suffering emotional problems stemming from a divorce. He was only in there for a month.

    Tyler’s lawyer, Lucas McCarthy, hopes that the ruling would have a “significant impact on the jurisprudence in the area of gun rights.”

    The decision is the first by a federal appeals court to rule a federal gun law is unconstitutional since 2008. The U.S. Supreme Court’s ruling in D.C. vs. Heller struck down the Washington, D.C. ban on firearms ownership.

    Federal law bans gun ownership for convicted felons, people under 18, illegal immigrants, drug addicts and those ordered by a court to a mental institution. The law also syas that people must have a chance to prove that their disqualifying disabilities have ended in order to possess a firearm legally.

    Since 2008, states have been able to get federal grants to set up “relief from disabilities program,” which was defunded in 1992. Michigan has not set one up, which left Tyler without a way to prove that his so-called “disability” should no longer apply.

    “The government’s interest in keeping firearms out of the hands of the mentally ill is not sufficiently related to depriving the mentally healthy, who had a distant episode of commitment, of their constitutional rights,” wrote Judge Danny Boggs, an appointee of President Ronald Reagan, for the panel.
    “[T]he enshrinement of constitutional rights necessarily takes certain policy choices off the table.” (Heller, 554 U.S., at ___, 128 S.Ct., at 2822.)

    How long before "going liberal" replaces "going postal"?



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  3. #2
    A month of mental institution over a divorce almost thirty years ago seemed like good enough grounds to withhold a gun on the guy?

    Glad this case was won, but I'm guessing there was a lot of "the law is the law" no matter how $#@!ty it smelled getting passed around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Miriam Godwinson View Post
    We Must Dissent.

  4. #3
    I know the founders were big on the idea of mentally ill people having access to guns

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by NACBA View Post
    I know the founders were big on the idea of mentally ill people having access to guns
    They were known as "demoniacs" back then, thank you very much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Miriam Godwinson View Post
    We Must Dissent.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Spikender View Post
    They were known as "demoniacs" back then, thank you very much.
    Mass Murderers with guns are always mentally ill. Think Sandy Hook.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by NACBA View Post
    Mass Murderers with guns are always mentally ill. Think Sandy Hook.
    What's your point? Why are you telling me obvious information? Do you like scary movies?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Miriam Godwinson View Post
    We Must Dissent.

  8. #7
    LOL.

    My point is that truly mentally ill people should not be able to own guns.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by NACBA View Post
    LOL.

    My point is that truly mentally ill people should not be able to own guns.
    Who is to make that determination of mental illness?

    As long as you're not insinuating that a guy who was institutionalized for a month almost thirty years ago to deal with an emotional divorce qualifies as mentally ill, we're all good here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Miriam Godwinson View Post
    We Must Dissent.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Spikender View Post
    Who is to make that determination of mental illness?

    As long as you're not insinuating that a guy who was institutionalized for a month almost thirty years ago to deal with an emotional divorce qualifies as mentally ill, we're all good here.
    Certainly not a layperson on an Internet forum

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by NACBA View Post
    Certainly not a layperson on an Internet forum
    That's too bad, I have multiple medical certifications.

    I even printed them myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Miriam Godwinson View Post
    We Must Dissent.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by NACBA View Post
    LOL.

    My point is that truly mentally ill people should not be able to own guns.
    Nor knives.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


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  14. #12
    Gun rights extremists remind me of abortion rights extremists in so many ways

  15. #13
    I'd like to know what ways gun rights activists remind you of abortion rights "extremists".
    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Miriam Godwinson View Post
    We Must Dissent.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Spikender View Post
    I'd like to know what ways gun rights activists remind you of abortion rights "extremists".
    They both freak out about any regulation at all and start the slippery slope arguments.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by NACBA View Post
    Gun rights extremists remind me of abortion rights extremists in so many ways
    It's not extreme to see a gun as a tool. There are lots of dangerous tools.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by NACBA View Post
    They both freak out about any regulation at all and start the slippery slope arguments.
    Slippery slope?

    You're the one saying the "government" has a right to tell people what they can and can't own.

    Listen, you are NEVER going to be able to stop madmen from doing things that you don't like. NEVER. There is no law you can pass. NONE.
    Unfortunately, you just have to accept that a certain level of $#@! is going to occur in the world.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  20. #17
    Good thing no one held my mental illness against me --I am so glad I had the right to get me some guns


  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by NACBA View Post
    Gun rights extremists remind me of abortion rights extremists in so many ways
    What happens when the DSM-III lists "obsessive belief in the Constitution" as a symptom of 'Governmental Authority Defiance Disorder' and use that as an excuse to prohibit firearms ownership from a political class?

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    What happens when the DSM-III lists "obsessive belief in the Constitution" as a symptom of 'Governmental Authority Defiance Disorder' and use that as an excuse to prohibit firearms ownership from a political class?
    It could happen.

    I've heard of cases where racists say that their racism is a mental impairment and then they ask for Social Security Disability benefits.

    BTW Gunny--you still in the legislature down there?

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by NACBA View Post
    It could happen.

    I've heard of cases where racists say that their racism is a mental impairment and then they ask for Social Security Disability benefits.

    BTW Gunny--you still in the legislature down there?
    No, I got redistricted out, because polling revealed I was destined for reelection. My county got the worst gerrymander in the State.

    I have to head north to go can up some home-made long term survival food rice kits, so I may only be spotty online the next 8 hours, but yeah, it could happen, which is why the government with all of it's political considerations is a danger when exercising that power, lest it turn that power to do evil. Which, as has always been the case, they inevitably will. Neither at least at the federal level are they even authorized for such measures.

    Perhaps in certain States depending on their individual Constitutions, there is an authority to regulate gun ownership amongst the deranged. In those states alone it would not be illegal for them to do so. However, like my peers I worry about who gets to decide 'what is insane?'

    I am a prepper. I am about to go home-make and home-can 52 meals worth of emergency long term storage food to store away in the event of a cataclysm. The Mormons consider this "good religion," while you likely consider it "a little bit insane."

    Now that I am a little bit insane, should the government be allowed to prohibit me from owning firearms? If such a prohibition is in fact unrighteous, then what should I do when they send the MRAP's and the shock troops to come take my guns?

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by NACBA View Post
    LOL.

    My point is that truly mentally ill people should not be able to own guns.
    The only thing you are succeeding with here is to demonstrate your rank ignorance and/or stupidity. There is endless FAIL here.

    "Truly mentally ill" - for pity's sake, did your schools teach you nothing? Let us begin dismembering your absurd argumentation with the fact that there is no rigorous definition of mental illness. If we refer to the work of Thomas Szasz, a rather brilliant scientist, the entire concept of mental illness is a lie. I am strongly inclined to agree.

    No matter how one defines "mental illness", the formalization can be demolished and exposed as arbitrary, incomplete, unclear, incorrect, and by any of these virtues demonstrated to be complete BULL$#@!.

    But to refine the point just a wee bit, where does this definition come from and why should we accept it as applicable to all people in all places and at all times? Who specified it? By what authority is it imposed upon all? What is the standard by which it was established? Why is that standard acceptable? Who says? Why should we believe them? We can go on down that chain of questions and answers ad infinitum because the very nature of the answers leads us to nothing irreducible and irrefutable. But if you do not believe me, I recommend you have at it. I will tie both hands behind my back as you take you best shot. My hands will remain so tied, and I predict that I will grind your argument to fine dust in no time whatsoever, and without breaking a single bead upon my brow. It's a loser and a non-challenge, but I will still be happy to oblige you for the sake of illustration - though I will go no further than two iterations deep because by then the fundamentally and recursively repeating pattern will have been established and there will remain nothing more that can be said as the proof will have been made, the horse killed dead, and there being no reason to beat it further.

    Ball's in your court.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    "Government" is naught but a mental construct, a script to which people meekly accept and play out their assigned roles by those with no authority to dictate such.

    Pray for reset.

    BRING BACK THE BANANA! OF THIS MESSAGE I AM APPROVE.


  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by NACBA View Post
    Certainly not a layperson on an Internet forum
    Sub-amateur dodge. Answer the question or prove yourself clueless, a troll, or both.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    "Government" is naught but a mental construct, a script to which people meekly accept and play out their assigned roles by those with no authority to dictate such.

    Pray for reset.

    BRING BACK THE BANANA! OF THIS MESSAGE I AM APPROVE.


  26. #23
    Future follow up to the Story:

    Recently a US court of appeals ruled that a person with a past history of mental illness could obtain a gun permit. Today it is with a saddened heart that we need to inform you that this person with the history of mental illness killed his ex-wife. It was 31 years ago to the day that this man's wife divorced him leading him to seek help from mental health professionals. Be it not for the ruling of the court this woman would be alive today.

    What we need is stronger gun control laws!

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by NACBA View Post
    Mass Murderers with guns are always mentally ill. Think Sandy Hook.
    Every soldier in every army, ever, is mentally ill?
    I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of the United States...When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank...You are a den of vipers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, I will rout you out!

    Andrew Jackson, 1834



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by NACBA View Post
    I know the founders were big on the idea of mentally ill people having access to guns
    $#@! that... Like you can be the judge of whether he is mentally ill or not just by reading an article..
    The ultimate minority is the individual. Protect the individual from Democracy and you will protect all groups of individuals
    Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. - Thomas Jefferson
    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

    - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Sub-amateur dodge. Answer the question or prove yourself clueless, a troll, or both.
    Bump
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

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    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by NACBA View Post
    LOL.

    My point is that truly mentally ill people should not be able to own guns.
    Can you prove that you are mentally stable? Can you prove it by any arbitrary standard I wish to chose?

    This is not about a "mentally ill" person getting a gun..
    This is about a law abiding man,, who is accused of "mental illness" being denied a gun.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Can you prove that you are mentally stable? Can you prove it by any arbitrary standard I wish to chose?

    This is not about a "mentally ill" person getting a gun..
    This is about a law abiding man,, who is accused of "mental illness" being denied a gun.
    I agree with this:


    Gun Ban for Mentally Ill Struck Down as Too Broad


    A federal law prohibiting anyone who has ever been committed to a mental institution from owning a firearm is unconstitutional, the 6th Circuit ruled.

    “The government’s interest in keeping firearms out of the hands of the mentally ill is not sufficiently related to depriving the mentally healthy, who had a distant episode of commitment, of their constitutional rights,” U.S. Circuit Judge Danny Boggs said, writing for the three-judge panel.

    http://www.infowars.com/gun-ban-for-...-as-too-broad/

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by NACBA View Post
    Good thing no one held my mental illness against me --I am so glad I had the right to get me some guns

    Yeah....the problem with your "logic" is the person in the OP isn't mentally ill. Not unless you think a month long bought with post divorce depression back in freaking 1986 with no intervening bouts of mental illness means someone should forever be deemed crazy.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by willwash View Post
    Every soldier in every army, ever, is mentally ill?
    LOL.

    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

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