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Thread: Supreme Court rules in favor of police officers who fired to end high-speed car chase

  1. #1

    Supreme Court rules in favor of police officers who fired to end high-speed car chase

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...cers-who-fire/

    Quote Originally Posted by The Washington Times
    The Arkansas police officers who fired 15 rounds into a fleeing vehicle, killing both the driver and passenger, were justified in doing so, the Supreme Court ruled Monday.

    In 2004, police officers in West Memphis ended a high-speed car chase by firing shots into the fleeing vehicle. The drivers of the car weren’t armed and were killed as a result of the firing, leading many to argue the use of force by the police squad was excessive. Not so, declared Justice Samuel Alito, who wrote the decision for the court.

    “Under the circumstances present in this case,” Mr. Alito said, “we hold that the Fourth Amendment did not prohibit petitioners from using the deadly force that they employed to terminate the dangerous car chase.” “If police officers are justified in firing at a suspect in order to end a severe threat to public safety,” the high court held, “the officers need not stop shooting until the threat has ended.”



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  3. #2

    Supreme Court Rules That Police May Fire Upon Fleeing Vehicles

    It looks like the police will now have carte blanche to execute anyone who attempts to flee them ...

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...cers-who-fire/


    Supreme Court rules in favor of police officers who fired to end high-speed car chase

    By Kelly Riddell
    The Washington Times

    Tuesday, May 27, 2014


    The Arkansas police officers who fired 15 rounds into a fleeing vehicle, killing both the driver and passenger, were justified in doing so, the Supreme Court ruled Monday.

    In 2004, police officers in West Memphis ended a high-speed car chase by firing shots into the fleeing vehicle. The drivers of the car weren’t armed and were killed as a result of the firing, leading many to argue the use of force by the police squad was excessive. Not so, declared Justice Samuel Alito, who wrote the decision for the court.

    snip

    “If police officers are justified in firing at a suspect in order to end a severe threat to public safety,” the high court held, “the officers need not stop shooting until the threat has ended.”

    snip

    A police officer’s attempt to terminate a dangerous high-speed car chase that threatens the lives of innocent bystanders does not violate the Fourth Amendment,” declared the majority opinion in the 2007 Supreme Court case, “even when it places the fleeing motorist at risk of serious injury or death.”
    Last edited by SeanTX; 05-27-2014 at 11:47 AM.

  4. #3
    thread merge
    The ultimate minority is the individual. Protect the individual from Democracy and you will protect all groups of individuals
    Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. - Thomas Jefferson
    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

    - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear

  5. #4
    Don't shoot until you see their backs... the greatest of cowards. But there is no greater corruption cowardliness like the U.S. Supreme Court, which have turned the country into a circus.

    The American Dream, Wake Up People, This is our country! <===click

    "All eyes are opened, or opening to the rights of man, let the annual return of this day(July 4th), forever refresh our recollections of these rights, and an undiminished devotion to them."
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  6. #5
    Where do I send my SWLOD?
    "IF GOD DIDN'T WANT TO HELP AMERICA, THEN WE WOULD HAVE Hillary Clinton"!!
    "let them search you,touch you,violate your Rights,just don't be a dick!"~ cdc482
    "For Wales. Why Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world. But for Wales?"
    All my life I've been at the mercy of men just following orders... Never again!~Erik Lehnsherr
    There's nothing wrong with stopping people randomly, especially near bars, restaurants etc.~Velho

  7. #6
    The War on Us continues, unabated.

  8. #7
    Stop chasing and the threat will stop running!
    The car being chased was in as much control as those chasing it. Either could have stopped.
    "When a portion of wealth is transferred from the person who owns it—without his consent and without compensation, and whether by force or by fraud—to anyone who does not own it, then I say that property is violated; that an act of plunder is committed." - Bastiat : The Law

    "nothing evil grows in alcohol" ~ @presence

    "I mean can you imagine what it would be like if firemen acted like police officers? They would only go into a burning house only if there's a 100% chance they won't get any burns. I mean, you've got to fully protect thy self first." ~ juleswin

  9. #8
    Justice will not be found in Their courts. Seek it on your own or remove yourselves from their path and prey for the best.



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  11. #9
    Aaaaaaannnd thisgoeshere ...


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  12. #10
    JUSTIFIED!!!

    "IF GOD DIDN'T WANT TO HELP AMERICA, THEN WE WOULD HAVE Hillary Clinton"!!
    "let them search you,touch you,violate your Rights,just don't be a dick!"~ cdc482
    "For Wales. Why Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world. But for Wales?"
    All my life I've been at the mercy of men just following orders... Never again!~Erik Lehnsherr
    There's nothing wrong with stopping people randomly, especially near bars, restaurants etc.~Velho

  13. #11
    Flee and get shot. Stay and get shot.
    Non-violence is the creed of those that maintain a monopoly on force.

  14. #12
    Whatever it takes, even if it means pepper-spraying, beating, tazing, or shooting you to death in order to obtain compliance.
    "Sorry, fellows, the rebellion is off. We couldn't get a rebellion permit."

  15. #13
    Get your bullet-proof car now before they outlaw them!

  16. #14
    The judges must have watched too many Dukes of Hazards episodes.

    What could go wrong firing at a moving vehicle in a public area. I'm sure we're going to start seeing these clowns (PD) firing out their windows as they are driving.

  17. #15
    Just to play devil's advocate, if there's probable cause and the crime in question is an actual crime, specifically one that presents a serious danger to other people (say the cops are pursuing a murderer) and the person in question knows he's being charged and he still flees, would police be unjustified in shooting in order to end the threat to other people? If not, why not?

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    Just to play devil's advocate, if there's probable cause and the crime in question is an actual crime, specifically one that presents a serious danger to other people (say the cops are pursuing a murderer) and the person in question knows he's being charged and he still flees, would police be unjustified in shooting in order to end the threat to other people? If not, why not?
    Because a suspect is still just a suspect until proven guilty. Probable cause justifies searches and seizures, not summary execution.
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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by aGameOfThrones View Post
    Where do I send my SWLOD?
    To the editor

  21. #18
    Fa, fa, fa fa, fa, fa, fa fa...fascism.

    (Stuttering is my allergic reaction to clearly tyrannical and bull$#@! rules, laws, and regulations.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Xerographica View Post

    Yes, I want to force consumers to buy trampolines, popcorn, environmental protection and national defense whether or not they really demand them. And I definitely want to outlaw all alternatives. Nobody should be allowed to compete with the state. Private security companies, private healthcare, private package delivery, private education, private disaster relief, private militias...should all be outlawed.
    ^Minimalist state socialism (minarchy) taken to its logical conclusions; communism.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    The judges must have watched too many Dukes of Hazards episodes.

    What could go wrong firing at a moving vehicle in a public area. I'm sure we're going to start seeing these clowns (PD) firing out their windows as they are driving.
    The American Dream, Wake Up People, This is our country! <===click

    "All eyes are opened, or opening to the rights of man, let the annual return of this day(July 4th), forever refresh our recollections of these rights, and an undiminished devotion to them."
    Thomas Jefferson
    June 1826



    Rock The World!
    USAF Veteran

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV View Post
    Because a suspect is still just a suspect until proven guilty. Probable cause justifies searches and seizures, not summary execution.
    What if the suspect is actually shooting at people or shooting at police officers? Would it be justified for the police officer to use force then?

  24. #21
    I'm not really sure where I stand on this one. 98% of the time I side against the police in these cases, and I usually disagree with the Supreme Court. But this seems to be a closer call than other recent cases.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    I'm not really sure where I stand on this one. 98% of the time I side against the police in these cases, and I usually disagree with the Supreme Court. But this seems to be a closer call than other recent cases.
    Shooting at a moving vehicle is incredibly stupid. It puts the public in far more danger than one simply evading arrest ever did. How about, with the advent of license plates and helicopters, instead of chasing vehicles, or opening fire on them, they simply follow the car aerially or do some investigative work to determine who was driving the vehicle?

    And if said perpetrator, who probably committed no crime, but simply didn't want to be enslaved for years over a couple grams of a given substance, gets away well so be it. It is better than car chases occurring at speeds of 100+ mph and is certainly better than summary execution/bullets ricocheting and flying everywhere.

    I cannot imagine how you are possibly on the fence about this.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  26. #23
    "Just-Us".........

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Shooting at a moving vehicle is incredibly stupid. It puts the public in far more danger than one simply evading arrest ever did. How about, with the advent of license plates and helicopters, instead of chasing vehicles, or opening fire on them, they simply follow the car aerially or do some investigative work to determine who was driving the vehicle?
    It's not that simple. There would be situations where someone was running from the police in a major city and driving fast, and they would be putting the lives of other people in danger by the way they're driving. They could run into other drivers or pedestrians on the street. So it would be necessary for the police to do whatever is necessary to stop the car in that situation. On the other hand, if the chase were occurring out in the country in a place where there were far fewer people around, it probably wouldn't be necessary for the police to shoot at the vehicle in that situation. So I don't really think that the police should have the right to just shoot at a vehicle whenever a chase is occurring. Basically, some common sense needs to be involved here. There are certain situations where it's necessary for the police to shoot at a vehicle in order to stop it, and other situations where it's unnecessary.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    It's not that simple. There would be situations where someone was running from the police in a major city and driving fast, and they would be putting the lives of other people in danger by the way they're driving. They could run into other drivers or pedestrians on the street. So it would be necessary for the police to do whatever is necessary to stop the car in that situation. On the other hand, if the chase were occurring out in the country in a place where there were far fewer people around, it probably wouldn't be necessary for the police to shoot at the vehicle in that situation. So I don't really think that the police should have the right to just shoot at a vehicle whenever a chase is occurring. Basically, some common sense needs to be involved here. There are certain situations where it's necessary for the police to shoot at a vehicle in order to stop it, and other situations where it's unnecessary.
    In 99.999% of the cases they wouldn't be driving as fast and as reckless if the police were not chasing them. The entire concept of a car chase puts the notion of public safety being a priority to rest. And them throwing flying projectiles around without regard only cements the truth for those willing to see it. They shot a car 377 times the other day. In a crowded neighborhood. Now obviously you wouldn't agree with that but the fact remains the same, if they are to tell me that they are driving triple the speed limit, swerving in and out of traffic, running red lights, for my safety they have to consider me a fool. They don't care. To endanger the public to that degree, simply so they all can hut hut and attain their adrenaline rush/show complete dominance, is sickening. How many people must die over such a foolish and unneeded tactic?
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  30. #26
    In new York cops did a high speed chase where the cops ended up doing a mass shooting. BTW, That was on foot.
    "IF GOD DIDN'T WANT TO HELP AMERICA, THEN WE WOULD HAVE Hillary Clinton"!!
    "let them search you,touch you,violate your Rights,just don't be a dick!"~ cdc482
    "For Wales. Why Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world. But for Wales?"
    All my life I've been at the mercy of men just following orders... Never again!~Erik Lehnsherr
    There's nothing wrong with stopping people randomly, especially near bars, restaurants etc.~Velho

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    It's not that simple. There would be situations where someone was running from the police in a major city and driving fast, and they would be putting the lives of other people in danger by the way they're driving. They could run into other drivers or pedestrians on the street. So it would be necessary for the police to do whatever is necessary to stop the car in that situation. On the other hand, if the chase were occurring out in the country in a place where there were far fewer people around, it probably wouldn't be necessary for the police to shoot at the vehicle in that situation. So I don't really think that the police should have the right to just shoot at a vehicle whenever a chase is occurring. Basically, some common sense needs to be involved here. There are certain situations where it's necessary for the police to shoot at a vehicle in order to stop it, and other situations where it's unnecessary.
    You're right, it's not that simple, however, it's also foolish and simple to conclude that shooting at a car is going to stop it.

    This is what happens when the police do this:

    Miami police kill 2 unarmed suspects by shooting disabled car 377 times
    "The guys tried to put their hands up, and as soon as they put their hands up, it erupted again."

    MIAMI, FL — In perhaps the largest case of contagious fire on record, a suspect’s vehicle was riddled with hundreds of bullets in a chaotic and frenzied show of police force following a pursuit. Witnesses emphatically said that the vehicle’s 2 occupants were trying to surrender, but that did not stop a total of 23 police officers from firing at least 377 shots at the vehicle. The officers’ wild volleys of bullets struck not only the suspects, but also neighboring houses, businesses, vehicles — even fellow police officers.


    more: http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/adrian-montesano/



    Miami police kill 2 unarmed suspects by shooting disabled car 377 times


    "The guys tried to put their hands up, and as soon as they put their hands up, it erupted again."


    Guess who gets to decide when you're on the wrong end of some situation.....
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  32. #28
    I don't know. It seems like the best solution would just be for the police to aim for the tires of the car they're chasing and try to shoot out the tires of the car to get the suspect to stop. Of course, you have to actually be a pretty good shot to be able to do that.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    I don't know. It seems like the best solution would just be for the police to aim for the tires of the car they're chasing and try to shoot out the tires of the car to get the suspect to stop. Of course, you have to actually be a pretty good shot to be able to do that.
    This isn't the movies. You are talking about sending several projectiles 1,200 fps at a surface that will cause the bullet to fragment. That is the best case scenario. The worse case scenario would be it hits a child in the head a few hundred feet away. They shouldn't be doing this.

    There was also a test on Mythbusters that tested the plausibility of shooting out one's tires to stop the car. Practically (it might have been every one of them) every test sent bullet fragments into the driver.

    And who are these grand criminal masterminds that they are chasing? Drug dealers, those with warrants, petty traffic violators... it makes no sense whatsoever. People have been killed by their cowboy antics.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  34. #30
    Kops don't need guns.

    Free men don't need kops...

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