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Thread: U.S. waives Jones Act to help get fuel to Northeast

  1. #1

    U.S. waives Jones Act to help get fuel to Northeast

    U.S. waives Jones Act to help get fuel to Northeast
    By Timothy Gardner and Ayesha Rascoe | Reuters – 21 mins ago

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. government issued a rare waiver on Friday allowing foreign tankers from the Gulf of Mexico to supply the Northeast with fuel after Hurricane Sandy, but the extent of relief was uncertain since some ports in the region still lack power.

    The Department of Homeland Security's waiver of the Jones Act allows foreign vessels to begin shipping petroleum products, such as gasoline and diesel, from the Gulf of Mexico to Northeastern ports effective immediately and running through November 13.

    With power still out at many ports and gasoline stations it was unclear how much fuel was needed immediately and how quickly it could get to customers.

    DHS said it had received only one request from a company to waive the law. It did not identify the company.

    The Jones Act, created to support jobs in the maritime industry, requires goods moved between U.S. ports to be carried by ships built domestically and staffed by U.S. crews.

    The American Maritime Partnership (AMP), a domestic maritime industry group, said it was not aware of any cases where U.S. vessels had not been available to transport fuel. But it supported waivers in the aftermath of the massive storm.

    "We will not oppose waivers that are necessary to facilitate delivery of petroleum products into the regions affected by Hurricane Sandy," AMP said in a letter sent on Friday to President Barack Obama and the heads of several government departments.

    Benchmark New York Harbor gasoline futures dropped 5 cents, or 2 percent, on news of the waivers, which could allow shippers to divert cargoes that are en route to Europe or Latin America to the depleted Northeast market.

    NO URGENT NEED?

    Craig Fugate, the head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, told reporters several government agencies were trying to figure out how many ships were available. He said the Energy Department held a conference call on Friday with major suppliers.

    "We're working ... on which ships can be potentially diverted to New York," Fugate said.

    Shipping sources said the slow return of power to ports in the New York Harbor had them considering delivering fuel to nearby cities such as Boston which could boost supplies available in the wider Northeast region.

    Energy experts said the waiver might not bring immediate relief to fuel-strapped New York and New Jersey, where two refineries were shut by Sandy. But, in the longer term, shipping alternatives could help ensure steady supply.

    "There appears to be no urgent need at the moment" for a Jones Act waiver, said Bob McNally, head of Washington-based consulting firm the Rapidan Group. He said shortages so far have been at the retail level rather than the maritime import level.

    David Goldwyn, who headed international energy affairs at the U.S. State Department until early 2011, said the waiver could boost the ability to deliver fuel to the East Coast now that tankers that were set to go to Europe or other destinations can dock there without restriction.

    "The travel from Gulf Coast to the East Coast is pretty quick," said Goldwyn, who currently runs Goldwyn Global Strategies, an energy research and strategy company.

    (Additional reporting by Roberta Rampton, Susan Cornwell and Robert Campbell in New York; Editing by Gerald E. McCormick, Phil Berlowitz and Jim Marshall)
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner



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  3. #2
    but VOLUNTEERS from alaBAMA are not PERMITTED to help restore power... what a convoluted wad of $hit guBBermint is

  4. #3
    The Jones Act should be permanently repealed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Perhaps the most important lesson from Obamacare is that while liberty is lost incrementally, it cannot be regained incrementally. The federal leviathan continues its steady growth; sometimes boldly and sometimes quietly. Obamacare is just the latest example, but make no mistake: the statists are winning. So advocates of liberty must reject incremental approaches and fight boldly for bedrock principles.
    The epitome of libertarian populism

  5. #4
    The Jones Act, created to support jobs in the maritime industry control people, gouge people, and stifle competition, requires goods moved between U.S. ports to be carried by ships built domestically and staffed by U.S. crews.
    Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is kept safe. Proverbs 29:25
    "I think the propaganda machine is the biggest problem that we face today in trying to get the truth out to people."
    Ron Paul

    Please watch, subscribe, like, & share, Ron Paul Liberty Report
    BITCHUTE IS A LIBERTY MINDED ALTERNATIVE TO GOOGLE SUBSIDIARY YOUTUBE

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Feeding the Abscess View Post
    The Jones Act should be permanently repealed.
    Amurika should be considered in a permanent state of emergency and waive all this crap.

  7. #6

  8. #7
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Anything that comes out of "Reason" is far from reasonable. They have been promoting globalism for years and against any "America First" policies to help Americans.

    Did people not learn anything during the crazy plannedemic? Do you want to outsource everything so when we need things, other countries lord over us--basically making us beg for medicine, oil and other goods?

    The next disaster on a cruise ship, like what happened in 1998 (on the Carnival cruise ship Ecstasy), when it caught on fire, just miles offshore of Miami. Most of the crew abandoned the ship and the passengers were left to their own devices. Thank goodness, they were close enough for Coast Guard to help extinguish the fire. But there are many more stories like this one. Cruise ships are foreign flagged, which means they do not have an American crew handling it, nor do they have to follow the stringent protocol that American crew members must adhere to.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Anything that comes out of "Reason" is far from reasonable. They have been promoting globalism for years and against any "America First" policies to help Americans.

    Did people not learn anything during the crazy plannedemic? Do you want to outsource everything so when we need things, other countries lord over us--basically making us beg for medicine, oil and other goods?

    The next disaster on a cruise ship, like what happened in 1998 (on the Carnival cruise ship Ecstasy), when it caught on fire, just miles offshore of Miami. Most of the crew abandoned the ship and the passengers were left to their own devices. Thank goodness, they were close enough for Coast Guard to help extinguish the fire. But there are many more stories like this one. Cruise ships are foreign flagged, which means they do not have an American crew handling it, nor do they have to follow the stringent protocol that American crew members must adhere to.
    One of the worst ideas that Donald Trump ran on for President were the ideas of mercantilism and protectionism. America is overloaded with politically-connected corporations getting laws passed that tilt the tables to their advantage. The last thing we need are more of these crony laws.But protectionist measures, even though they're a bad idea, sell very well.


    They're like the idea of "FREE" Healthcare. Yeah, it's a deadly idea, but it sells extremely well.


    Wouldn't you know ... Irony has struck again.


    Because the protectionist Jones Act was so horrendous by blocking aid to Puerto Rico, the protectionist President Trump was forced to "temporarily" repeal it.


    Don't toy with us Mr. President.


    ​We don't need a "temporary" breather from a bad idea. Get rid of the Jones Act for good!


    We need to be freed from every protectionist measure that is put into place by politically-connected and crony corporations.
    The measures stem from the false idea that trade is a zero-sum game, where someone "wins" at someone else's expense.


    Trump campaigned by saying "We don't win anymore."


    Besides being a soundbite that sells well, it just displays his big understanding about how trade works.


    "We don't win anymore" makes no sense.


    Whenever two people voluntarily make an exchange, it's always a "win-win" situation. There are no losers in voluntary exchanges.


    If two people voluntarily exchange, it means that both believe they will be better off by doing it.


    If one of the people thought that they would be worse off, they could simply say "no" and refuse to make the exchange.


    Protectionists live under the false idea of zero-sum. As a result, they want government to violently intrude into an exchange, and tilt the tables in one direction. The corporations that get the government to act on their behalf do so to protect themselves from competitors.


    Protectionism stifles the marketplace.


    Once this practice gets going, everyone wants in on the action. If your competitor is greasing the government, you feel like you have to do the same.


    Politicians love it because it gives them a false sense of power, and inflates their importance. Everyone is lobbying for their favors.


    Protectionism is economic poison.




    We should always call for its abolishment.
    http://www.ronpaullibertyreport.com/...-protectionism
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    And did Puerto Rico get what they needed? It seem that the protectionists were the officials holding supplies needed from the residence of Puerto Rico.

    President Trump was not perfect, nor is any man (or woman), but if you are expecting someone perfect to come along, you'll have to wait a little while longer, because he is coming to right all the wrongs.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    And did Puerto Rico get what they needed? It seem that the protectionists were the officials holding supplies needed from the residence of Puerto Rico.

    President Trump was not perfect, nor is any man (or woman), but if you are expecting someone perfect to come along, you'll have to wait a little while longer, because he is coming to right all the wrongs.
    The point wasn't to compare Trump to anyone else. The point was that protectionism is always bad and that the Jones Act should not just get temporarily lifted, but repealed altogether. Defending protectionism because it ostensibly puts America first is misguided. Protectionism doesn't help America. It hurts us.

    As for Trump, whereas a lot of people here (including you, if I'm reading you right) see his "America first" protectionism as a selling point, Ron Paul's view is in line with the view of Reason Magazine that you criticized, that this is one of Trump's most serious problems.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; 06-15-2021 at 09:43 AM.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    The point wasn't to compare Trump to anyone else. The point was that protectionism is always bad and that the Jones Act should not just get temporarily lifted, but repealed altogether. Defending protectionism because it ostensibly puts America first is misguided. Protectionism doesn't help America. It hurts us.

    As for Trump, whereas a lot of people here (including you, if I'm reading you right) see his "America first" protectionism as a selling point, Ron Paul's view is in line with the view of Reason Magazine that you criticized, that this is one of Trump's most serious problems.
    You will never get the same playing fields. This is what Trump was trying to do, but most people condemned him for it. I love Ron Paul, and I do not think he could have just repealed these things overnight.

    We are supposed to be independent, yet there are many counties out there that do not agree with independence. Again, the plannedemic proved that these very countries were willing to blackmail us for medical devices and supplies that had been outsourced. You cannot ask for an investigation of a country that holds the Ace in their hands.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    You will never get the same playing fields. This is what Trump was trying to do, but most people condemned him for it. I love Ron Paul, and I do not think he could have just repealed these things overnight.

    We are supposed to be independent, yet there are many counties out there that do not agree with independence. Again, the plannedemic proved that these very countries were willing to blackmail us for medical devices and supplies that had been outsourced. You cannot ask for an investigation of a country that holds the Ace in their hands.
    I get that protectionists think this way. But that doesn't make it any better. Other countries having protectionist policies is never an excuse to support America having them too. It doesn't matter if there's a level playing field. Protectionism is always bad.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  16. #14

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Anything that comes out of "Reason" is far from reasonable.
    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/genetic

    Sometimes they put out some good material, sometimes they don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    They have been promoting globalism for years and against any "America First" policies to help Americans.
    This has nothing to do with globalism. It has to do with burdensome regulation placed by the US federal government which harms Americans.

    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Did people not learn anything during the crazy plannedemic? Do you want to outsource everything so when we need things, other countries lord over us--basically making us beg for medicine, oil and other goods?
    This is where the free market comes in. And business is always a learning endeavor so adjustments and tweaks to models are always being made. Supply chains are being tweaked as a result of 2020.

    Also, the shortages were almost all government created, by every government, including the government in DC.

    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    The next disaster on a cruise ship, like what happened in 1998 (on the Carnival cruise ship Ecstasy), when it caught on fire, just miles offshore of Miami. Most of the crew abandoned the ship and the passengers were left to their own devices. Thank goodness, they were close enough for Coast Guard to help extinguish the fire. But there are many more stories like this one. Cruise ships are foreign flagged, which means they do not have an American crew handling it, nor do they have to follow the stringent protocol that American crew members must adhere to.
    What does that have to do with cabotage or the Jones Act?
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Good video.

    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Anything that comes out of "Reason" is far from reasonable. They have been promoting globalism for years and against any "America First" policies to help Americans.

    Did people not learn anything during the crazy plannedemic? Do you want to outsource everything so when we need things, other countries lord over us--basically making us beg for medicine, oil and other goods?
    Ummmm....that's got nothing to do with whether the stuff that were are importing anyway regardless of the Jones act is shipped via truck or via ship. And lots of trucks on the road today are foreign built and/or foreign owned.

    The next disaster on a cruise ship, like what happened in 1998 (on the Carnival cruise ship Ecstasy), when it caught on fire, just miles offshore of Miami. Most of the crew abandoned the ship and the passengers were left to their own devices. Thank goodness, they were close enough for Coast Guard to help extinguish the fire. But there are many more stories like this one. Cruise ships are foreign flagged, which means they do not have an American crew handling it, nor do they have to follow the stringent protocol that American crew members must adhere to.
    Mmmmm.....okay. And that has what exactly to do with the Jones Act? So...you're worried that the Chinese junk being ferried from New York to Puerto Rico gets left to its own devices?
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    What does that have to do with cabotage or the Jones Act?

    HOW THE JONES ACT AFFECTS CRUISE SHIPS

    The Jones Act is a set of laws about maritime vessels, their workers, passengers, and freight. It is often referred to by its European counterpart name of the Cabotage Law (pronounced like sabotage).

    The Jones Act has a portion of the law that specifically covers cruise ships and their passengers. This law, the Passenger Vessel Services Act or PVSA, applies to ships carrying passengers, versus ships carrying cargo.

    Learn more about the Jones Act Law/PVSA and how it applies to cruise ships in the U.S.

    Jones Act and the PVSA
    The Jones Act applies to vessels carrying merchandise from one U.S. port to another. If a ship will move merchandise between U.S. ports it must be built, owned, and a documented vessel. So, if a ship is moving goods within the U.S., they must abide by all U.S. maritime laws.

    The Passenger Vessel Services Act (PVSA) applies to cruise ships because cruise ships move passengers. The PVSA prevents a ship from taking passengers from one U.S. port and dropping them off or having them exit the ship in another port. The only way a cruise ship can do this is to be registered in the U.S. and fall under all U.S. maritime laws.

    How Do These Affect Cruise Ships?
    Most cruise ships operating out of U.S. ports are not registered in the U.S. This means cruise lines must carefully structure their itineraries.

    The Jones Act for cruise ships has a few exceptions. If they start in one U.S. port and visit a distant port (one not in North America), then they can depart at a different U.S. port. For example, a passenger could board in Miami, then stop in Bonaire and Curacao (part of South America), travel through the Panama Canal and drop passengers off in a port in California.

    Another exception is if a cruise ship is not registered in the U.S. and leaves from a U.S. port then it may not drop passengers at a different U.S. port, but can still stop at a second U.S. port. For example, if passengers board in Ft. Lauderdale for a cruise, they can stop in the Florida Keys, but it cannot be the final destination. The ships may do this only if they visit at least one foreign port during the journey.

    Penalties for Breaking the PVSA
    Cruise lines are motivated to avoid breaking the Jones Act/PVSA because if they don’t abide by the law they are fined per passenger. If the ship leaves from Ft.Lauderdale, stops in the Florida Keys and a passenger exits the ship without returning the cruise line is fined (not the passenger).

    If passenger S boards a ship in say New Jersey. They get off the ship in Maine for an excursion and are injured. They are staying off the ship for medical treatment.

    The person traveling with them also exits the ship. The ship is fined for both passengers leaving on a different U.S. port than where they started.

    There are several situations where cruise lines can apply for waivers for the Jones Act/PVSA.

    Cabotage Law and Its Effects for Cruise Ships in the U.S.
    The Cabotage Law or Jones Act Laws require cruise ships to not only carefully structure their itineraries, but also to closely keep track of their passengers at each port. Cruise lines are motivated to know they have boarded all of their passengers, especially at U.S. ports, to avoid fines from these laws.
    https://www.barneslawfirm.com/how-th...-cruise-ships/
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    https://www.barneslawfirm.com/how-th...-cruise-ships/
    Penalties for Breaking the PVSA
    Cruise lines are motivated to avoid breaking the Jones Act/PVSA because if they don’t abide by the law they are fined per passenger. If the ship leaves from Ft.Lauderdale, stops in the Florida Keys and a passenger exits the ship without returning the cruise line is fined (not the passenger).

    If passenger S boards a ship in say New Jersey. They get off the ship in Maine for an excursion and are injured. They are staying off the ship for medical treatment.

    The person traveling with them also exits the ship. The ship is fined for both passengers leaving on a different U.S. port than where they started.

    There are several situations where cruise lines can apply for waivers for the Jones Act/PVSA.
    And why exactly do you think ^that is a good idea?
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    And why exactly do you think ^that is a good idea?
    Because forbidding cruise lines from requiring their passengers to be vaccinated makes America great.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Survival trumps liberty every time
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Because forbidding cruise lines from requiring their passengers to be vaccinated makes America great.
    I know your trolling but have fun! Nothing @donnay said in this thread has anything to do with vaccination. That said, with all of the pro-vaccination propaganda being pushed the the federal government, it is right an proper for the states to push back. It would be one thing if everyone was making a free market choice. But that's not what's happening.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    And why exactly do you think ^that is a good idea?
    Because foreign flags ships do not follow the same protocols that our US captains and crew follow. I already stated an example above.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Because foreign flags ships do not follow the same protocols that our US captains and crew follow. I already stated an example above.
    The example you gave showed that foreign flagged shipped were motivated by the Jones Act itself to do things that don't make sense. Your example doesn't prove what you think it proves. Quite the opposite actually. From your example it seems the Jones Act causes more problems than it solves.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Because foreign flags ships do not follow the same protocols that our US captains and crew follow. I already stated an example above.
    So waht?

    It should be a free market.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    The example you gave showed that foreign flagged shipped were motivated by the Jones Act itself to do things that don't make sense. Your example doesn't prove what you think it proves. Quite the opposite actually. From your example it seems the Jones Act causes more problems than it solves.
    Example: The 1998 fire onboard the cruise ship, Ecstasy. Much of the crew abandoned ship on life rafts and left the passengers to their own devices. That is NOT what a American flagged crew would have done. We saw this up in Alaska, which had one of the last American flagged cruise ships some years back.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    So waht?

    It should be a free market.
    Yeah in a perfect world I would agree...but we don't live in a perfect world. When in the last 70-plus years, there are lots of people who hate America and Americans and would have no problem seeing terrible things happen to Americans.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Example: The 1998 fire onboard the cruise ship, Ecstasy. Much of the crew abandoned ship on life rafts and left the passengers to their own devices. That is NOT what a American flagged crew would have done. We saw this up in Alaska, which had one of the last American flagged cruise ships some years back.
    And the Jones Act prevented that how? Oh wait....it didn't.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    And the Jones Act prevented that how? Oh wait....it didn't.
    They were fined and sued under the current Jones Act/ PVSA for many violations.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    I know your trolling but have fun! Nothing @donnay said in this thread has anything to do with vaccination.
    It's an equivalent restriction on a similar industry, also implemented out of what seems to be essentially virtue signalling.


    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    That said, with all of the pro-vaccination propaganda being pushed the the federal government, it is right an proper for the states to push back.
    Push back against the federal government by regulating private businesses based in that state?
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Survival trumps liberty every time
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  32. #28
    Jones is not just protectionist legislation, it recognizes that a merchant fleet, shipbuilding and the men to build and sail that fleet are critical to national defense.

    The ChiComs have quietly purchased hulls, ports, shipping lines and other crucial maritime assets over the last thirty years, to the point now, if they so desired, they could shut down maritime trade that we now rely to supply our economy with cheap $#@! that masks the dirty tricks and inflation the Fed has been playing with the money.

    The America Last crowd won't acknowledge that any more than they will acknowledge that the nation's trade policy should always favor US production and US workers.

    Hell, we're just coming away from a ChiCom bio-weapon attack that, if you want to believe the official numbers, left 600,000 US citizens dead, and still counting.

    God knows how many more will die from "vaccine" after effects.

    And we do nothing to reply, avenge, retaliate or defend ourselves against this war crime.

    Not even the Fifth Columnists and China Quislings responsible within our own government, like Fauchi, will held accountable.

    Years ago, I would have vigorously entered this debate, but now, having my maritime career ended by Joe Biden and his Executive Order pen, I don't give a $#@! anymore.

    The AmeriKunt people want $10 a gallon gasoline, they want to save three cents on every pack of rubber dog $#@! shipped in COSCO hulls, they want hostile foreign nations controlling the shipping of oil and grain and food and vital raw materials internally within the country?

    Fine, $#@! them, give 'em what they want.
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 06-17-2021 at 07:43 AM.
    According to government's own numbers, over half a MILLION people are dead, just in the US alone, because of a man made virus designed to be even more deadly than what would be found in nature, released, possibly on purpose, from a Chinese lab, a virus that that was created from funding and prior research given to the Chinese scientists by our own government because we, in fit of sanity, pulled the plug on funding here.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    It's an equivalent restriction on a similar industry, also implemented out of what seems to be essentially virtue signalling.
    Not at all equivalent but in your mind I'm sure you can do the mental gymnastics contortions to make it so.

    Push back against the federal government by regulating private businesses based in that state?
    The federal government pushed nationwide lockdowns. Businesses obviously want to be opened up. Requiring vaccine passports are "virtue signaling" to the PTB. "Hey, don't lock us down again. We believe the science." (No such thing as the science.) Dr. Fauci first floated the idea of "immunity passports" just a few months into the pandemic. So this is pushback to a federal government pushed mandate.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  34. #30
    Good points. It's like we have foreign made chips in our ships. (Hey that rhymes?) Who knows what backdoors lurk there? I remember back in the 80s when I was taking computer science classes reading in the documentation for the (now obselete) Data Encryption Standard which stated it could be exported for national defense and thinking "Since most of the graduate level comp sci majors are foreign born, including from China, how exactly are they going to keep some words on a piece of paper from being exported?"

    Anyhow, which executive order from Uncle Joe ended your merchant marine career?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Jones is not just protectionist legislation, it recognizes that a merchant fleet, shipbuilding and the men to build and sail that fleet are critical to national defense.

    The ChiComs have quietly purchased hulls, ports, shipping lines and other crucial maritime assets over the last thirty years, to the point now, if they so desired, they could shut down maritime trade that we now rely to supply our economy with cheap $#@! that masks the dirty tricks and inflation the Fed has been playing with the money.

    The America Last crowd won't acknowledge that any more than they will acknowledge that the nation's trade policy should always favor US production and US workers.

    Hell, we're just coming away from a ChiCom bio-weapon attack that, if you want to believe the official numbers, left 600,000 US citizens dead, and still counting.

    God knows how many more will die from "vaccine" after effects.

    And we do nothing to reply, avenge, retaliate or defend ourselves against this war crime.

    Not even the Fifth Columnists and China Quislings responsible without our own government, like Fauchi, will held accountable.

    Years ago, I would have vigorously entered this debate, but now, having my maritime career ended by Joe Biden and his Executive Order pen, I don't give a $#@! anymore.

    The AmeriKunt people want $10 a gallon gasoline, they want to save three cents on every pack of rubber dog $#@! shipped in COSCO hulls, they want hostile foreign nations controlling the shipping of oil and grain and food and vital raw materials internally within the country?

    Fine, $#@! them, give 'em what they want.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

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