Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Canada's health care system

  1. #1

    Canada's health care system

    My friend just got back from a trip in Canada, and was suggesting that the Canadians had it great with their "free" health care system. He likes Paul on the wars, but not domestically. I told him about the examples of Lasik and plastic surgery being truly free market in that the quality goes up and the cost goes down. He retorted that at $1,000 per eye, Lasik was still cost prohibitive. I countered that if Lasik was under some insurance plan, it would be 5,000 dollars per eye and he wouldn't know because "someone else is paying the bill" and he would just make a small co-payment. He still thinks healthcare in some European countries has worked well, and I am not sure how to get him to see things clearly about how corporatist Obamacare is. i did say "I disagree with your desire to use force to achieve ur means" and suggested he view "The Philosophy of Liberty" on YouTube. He was all "excuse me?!? I'm a pacifist and I don't support the wars", so I told him "if I don't want my tax dollars going to cochlear implants for babies with hearing losses, I will have government officials at my door to arrest me, and if I resist, they will shoot me". I don't think he gets that. Any other suggestions?
    .... in his heart, and in his head, in his character, and in his intellect, in what he has done, and in what he will become, the Thomas Jefferson of our day, Ron Paul is one of us.
    - Andrew Napolitano, Future of Freedom Foundation, June 3, 2007
    For captioned videos of Ron Paul, subscribe to http://www.youtube.com/user/KramerDSP.

    Also, check out http://www.deafronpaul.blogspot.com for hundreds of subtitled political videos featuring Ron Paul and other politicians.



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    Ask him him about Canada's projected health care costs

  4. #3
    Ask him what drives innovation in a system with no profit? Ask him what kind of choices exist for alternative therapy and who gets to decide what "alternative" is? Ask him about wait times for various procedures.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  5. #4
    give up and go bowling with the guy?
    Those Who Do Not Move, Do Not Notice Their Chains.

  6. #5
    LOL on the bowling one. Good suggestions, all.
    .... in his heart, and in his head, in his character, and in his intellect, in what he has done, and in what he will become, the Thomas Jefferson of our day, Ron Paul is one of us.
    - Andrew Napolitano, Future of Freedom Foundation, June 3, 2007
    For captioned videos of Ron Paul, subscribe to http://www.youtube.com/user/KramerDSP.

    Also, check out http://www.deafronpaul.blogspot.com for hundreds of subtitled political videos featuring Ron Paul and other politicians.

  7. #6
    The biggest advantage of the Canadian system vs the US system is the single payer impact on costs. The US has literally thousands of healthcare plans each with different coverages and repayment rules- we spend something like three times what they do in administrative costs and overall the costs are lower in Canada than the US. The question as to whether there should be a "one size fits all" program is of course a separate question but it does achieve a lower total cost.

  8. #7
    I am Canadian.

    Did he mention the 3-6 month wait times for a specialist? Did he mention the HUGELY overworked GP's who are generally so tired of seeing person after person that they often don't give a $#@! and thus MAKE MISTAKES.

    A lot of our best doctors go to the USA because Canadian GP's have a cap on how much they can earn. So what do they do? They pump through patients at bliztkreig spead for 7-8 months and take the rest of the year off once they are legally no longer to make more money.

    Did I mention the $#@!ing 6 month wait periods for a goddamn specialist?

    It took our ass clown system EIGHT $#@!ING YEARS to diagnos my mom with Crohn's and Colitis because she was waiting almost half a year between each damn doctor she was referred too...only to hear "I don't know, try this expensive drug that probably won't work".
    Last edited by Seraphim; 08-27-2011 at 12:37 PM.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphim View Post
    I am Canadian.

    Did he mention the 3-6 month wait times for a specialist? Did he mention the HUGELY overworked GP's who are generally so tired of seeing person after person that they often don't give a $#@! and thus MAKE MISTAKES.

    A lot of our best doctors go to the USA because Canadian GP's have a cap on how much they can earn. So what do they do? They pump through patients at bliztkreig spead for 7-8 months and take the rest of the year off once they are legally no longer to make more money.

    Did I mention the $#@!ing 6 month wait periods for a goddamn specialist?

    It took our ass clown system EIGHT $#@!ING YEARS to diagnos my mom with Crohn's and Colitis because she was waiting almost half a year between each damn doctor she was referred too...only to hear "I don't know, try this expensive drug that probably won't work".
    the sad thing here is it's not much different in the US for some of us at this point. my friend may possibly have MS and she has gotten the complete, utter, total run around when it comes to seeing a quality specialist who is willing to figure out what's going on with her. it took her 7 months to be seen and her insurance is fighting (through her primary care manager-- who keeps changing and she has to see again to re-explain her situation) against paying for the testing that he specialist wants to run on her.

    oh, and we are both military dependents, soooo... i already have a glance at what the system is going to turn into-- only it will be much worse. if they don't kick all the dependents out of the military system, we may end up having better care than everyone. crazy thought.

    btw: the tricare referral system is crazy, unless you happen to accidentally stumble upon a tricare worker that cares and is knowledgeable about their job. in my experience (and through hearsay as well), a very rare find.



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    I think it's the younger Canadians that are largely satisfied with the health care system because they don't actually use it very much.

    As for the cost of $1000 an eye not being very affordable - has your friend purchased eyeglasses? Because they are pretty expensive. Getting new glasses every 2 years, which is what they suggest, would probably exceed the $2000 price tag in less than a decade, especially if inflation takes off.

    Having said that, no system is perfect. There will never be a Utopia where everybody gets everything they want and need. The Canadian system rations care based on some random government guidelines, while America rations it based on available resources.

  12. #10
    At least our health care is PROVINCIALLY run rather than Federal.

    The problem is I live in Ontario the big government unions here are brutal. A politician can't even say "sorry the money is not there to expand government health care/education. Either we cut, or raise taxes." And then the government union $#@!s go into a rabid rage out and call anyone who understands basic math an evil human being.


    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    I think it's the younger Canadians that are largely satisfied with the health care system because they don't actually use it very much.

    As for the cost of $1000 an eye not being very affordable - has your friend purchased eyeglasses? Because they are pretty expensive. Getting new glasses every 2 years, which is what they suggest, would probably exceed the $2000 price tag in less than a decade, especially if inflation takes off.

    Having said that, no system is perfect. There will never be a Utopia where everybody gets everything they want and need. The Canadian system rations care based on some random government guidelines, while America rations it based on available resources.

  13. #11
    Almost every public healthcare system in the world has either rapidly rising costs, or they have capped the costs which means there are rapidly increasing queue's.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphim View Post
    At least our health care is PROVINCIALLY run rather than Federal.

    The problem is I live in Ontario the big government unions here are brutal. A politician can't even say "sorry the money is not there to expand government health care/education. Either we cut, or raise taxes." And then the government union $#@!s go into a rabid rage out and call anyone who understands basic math an evil human being.
    In BC, it is the doctors who are part of the problem. The BC medical board refuses to initiate user fees. A small user fee would deter the time wasters who go to see a doctor for every sniffle. I go to a walk-in clinic and I usually have to try back 3 or 4 times just to get a prescription renewal that takes 30 seconds to complete because the doctors have generally already seen the maximum number of patients they are allowed to per day when I get there. If you don't charge people out-of-pocket, they don't appreciate it.

    Don't even get me started on people like my father, who after abusing his body for decades and continues to do so, gets expensive, superb and rapid treatment for his life threatening illnesses, while those who live a healthy lifestyle have to wait in line for necessary treatment of non-life threatening issues.
    Last edited by specialK; 08-27-2011 at 01:55 PM.

  15. #13
    Ding ding ding

    Quote Originally Posted by diurdi View Post
    almost every public healthcare system in the world has either rapidly rising costs, or they have capped the costs which means there are rapidly increasing queue's.

  16. #14
    Well said.

    The health care practitioners are often the problem here in Ontario too..like I said above...they scream blue bloody murder if you tell them their gravy train will be cut, allowing free market (i.e. rational and correct) wages and costs.

    To your point about your father - also well said. If you smoke like a chimney and drink like a fish, YOU should pay for the health care. No one else.

    Quote Originally Posted by specialK View Post
    In BC, it is the doctors who are part of the problem. The BC medical board refuses to initiate user fees. A small user fee would deter the time wasters who go to see a doctor for every sniffle. I go to a walk-in clinic and I usually have to try back 3 or 4 times just to get a prescription renewal that takes 30 seconds to complete because the doctors have generally already seen the maximum number of patients they are allowed to per day when I get there. If you don't charge people out-of-pocket, they don't appreciate it.

    Don't even get me started on people like my father, who after abusing his body for decades and continues to do so, gets expensive, superb and rapid treatment for his life threatening illnesses, while those who live a healthy lifestyle have to wait in line for necessary treatment of non-life threatening issues.
    Last edited by Seraphim; 08-27-2011 at 03:00 PM.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphim View Post
    Well said.
    If you smoke like a chimney and drink like a fish, YOU should pay for the health care. No one else.
    It would be nice to give people a financial incentive to stay healthy, as the case would be in a free market system. People may not care about how long they live, or the quality of life, but if a 20 year old smoker learned that his habit might just cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars in health-care costs...



Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 02-07-2011, 09:48 PM
  2. Understanding The New Health Care System
    By Matt Collins in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-04-2010, 04:50 PM
  3. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-25-2010, 09:00 AM
  4. Why I Always Praise Singapore's Health Care System
    By TastyWheat in forum Health Freedom
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-23-2009, 11:21 AM
  5. In a truly free health care system...
    By Tdcci in forum Health Freedom
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-08-2008, 11:14 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •