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Thread: Today I put my life on the line for liberty...

  1. #1

    Angry Today I put my life on the line for liberty...







    Today my g/f and I decided to take a day off from college and go on a trip out to the local desert.

    Once over the mountains and into the desert floor I headed north to show my g/f some awesome mud caverns that I had been to as a little kid many years ago.

    We are now in the middle of nowhere. I think we passed maybe 3 cars during the entire 5 hours we spent in the desert.

    We are driving along enjoying the sights looking for the cross road we need to find when all of a sudden there is a sudden homeland security (border patrol) check point in the middle of the 2 lane road.

    There are cones and official vehicles directing any passing drivers into the shoulder where there is a movable STOP sign.

    I slow and drive up...

    Agent: "Are you a US citizen?"

    Me: "I'm not going to be answering any questions"

    Agent: "Where are you coming from?"

    Me: "I'm not going to be answering any questions"

    Agent: "Where are you traveling to?"

    Me: "I'm not going to be answering any questions"

    Agent: "You have to answer my questions!"

    Me: "I'm not going to be answering any questions under the protection granted via the 5th amendment of the constitution of the United States."

    Agent: "Pull over to the side here and turn off your vehicle"

    Me: "Am I being detained?"

    Agent: "Yes".

    *I pull to the side and turn off the vehicle and lock the doors and leave the window down apx 4 inches*

    Agent: "You're going to sit here until you answer my questions"

    Me : "I would like to speak to your supervisor"

    Agent: "Oh, a supervisor huh... (nodding head and gesturing in a confrontational manner) *he then walks over and gets the supervisor*

    Supervisor: "Why won't you answer the questions? It's not a big deal..."

    Me: "I understand that you're just trying to do your job, however under the 5th amendment of the constitution I will not be answering any questions"

    Supervisor: "You have to state citizenship status at checkpoints like these under immigration law"

    Me: "I understand that there might be a law that states that, however I feel that the constitution is the supreme law of this country and I believe that my ability to remain silent trumps this immigration law you are citing".

    Supervisor: "Well that's nice but you're not free to leave until you answer our questions"

    Me: "How long can you detain me?"

    Supervisor: "We will detain you here until you answer our questions".

    Me: "At what phone number can I reach your supervisor?"

    *He gave me the phone number and I called*

    Dispatch transferred me to a supervisor and I explained the situation, the phone supervisor told me that I was required by law to state my citizenship status and then told me that I needed to deal with the supervisor that was at the checkpoint and then got off the phone with me.

    ~~

    We proceeded to sit in the car discussing our options for apx 30 mins, I was figuring that there was a legal amount of time in which they could "detain" me before making the decision to either arrest me or let me go.

    During this time, my g/f and I listened to their conversations from a distance.

    We heard them mocking us and saying things like "what a douchebag" "what does this guy think he is accomplishing?" laughing, also saying to my face that quote "we don't care, we are getting paid to stand here anyway".

    I overheard one agent say that "well if we decide to arrest him and he resists we can LIGHT HIM UP"

    Another thing we overheard was a younger agent saw my bumper sticker



    and using his personal cell phone he called someone and asked them to look up what prop 19 was...

    I also have a Gadsden flag "don't tread on me" sticker on the back as well.

    ~~

    The agent then asked me for my ID which I of course refused.

    I asked if I was suspected of committing any crimes and was told "no".

    Eventually after about an hour of sitting in the sun I called the dispatch back again and asked to speak to that supervisor again and when I got her I asked to speak to her supervisor.

    This guy was actually polite and sounded like he knew what he was talking about... I told him that there was no way they could detain me indefinitely and that I would be calling 911 and telling the state police and local sheriff dept. that I was being held against my will.

    He responded by stating that the CHP (CA state police) was already en route.

    He also clarified that I was not being "detained indefinitely" and that I was being detained until the CHP officer arrived.

    I asked how long can I legally be detained? and the response was that there is no set amount of time and that it is defined as a "reasonable amount of time".

    After about another 45 mins - an hour goes by, the CHP officer arrives...

    I greet him warmly and shake his hand through the window and ask if I can speak to him away from the gaggle of 4-6 agents that were sorrounding my vehicle with hands on their pistols and one clutching a shotgun.

    He agrees and I exit the vehicle and we walk about 35 feet just out of earshot of the agents and I explain to him that I am not trying to cause problems and I apologize that he had to be called way out here to deal with this but that these agents were demanding that I answer their questions and that I was declining to do so under the 5th amendment.

    He seemed agreeable from the start and asked if he could run my license to make sure it was valid, now.... at this point I realized that if I had wanted to take this even further I likely could have argued that he had to legal reason to run my license since I had not done anything wrong... However... we had now been sitting in the sun roasting for 2 full hours...

    I let him run my license under the condition that he was not to share my information with any of the agents under any circumstance. He agreed and over his radio had dispatch check the license number and there were no problems. He stated that he didn't see any problems or any reason for him to bother me any further. He walked over to the agents outside my vehicle and I got back into the drivers seat.

    He explained to the agents that my license was valid and that he had no probable cause to suspect that I had done anything wrong in any way and that if I wanted to exercise my rights under the 5th amendment that that was my choice. He said to them that it was their call if they wanted to arrest me under any federal statues but that he would not be assisting or having anything to do with it.

    The agents looked like someone had just told them their dog had died, it was disturbing... they all clamoured to ask if I had any warrants or any other "issues"... and the officer said no.

    I then asked directly to the supervisor if I was free to go and he said yes.

    I then started my engine and left...

    As a very nice side note, when we got to where we were going I started chatting with the park ranger and ended up having a solid 45 min conversation with him about the incident, politics, etc and he was a vietnam vet that was now a libertarian and he shook my hand and told me that he was proud that there are young people still willing to fight for what's right.

    ~~

    Things I think I did well...


    Stayed calm.

    Contacted superiors and made ultimatum to call sheriff and chp

    Refused to answer any questions.

    Did not give any personal information to any federal agents.

    Held my ground in polite and non-image damaging fashion (ie: wasn't calling them nazi's etc...

    Things I could do better...

    Video tape instead of pictures (I will be buying a video camera to keep in the car tomorrow)

    Have the local sheriff dept's phone number ready to go in my phone should it happen again.



    Thoughts/comments?

    I can honestly say that I was scared. They were trying their hardest to intimidate me, aggressive postures, guns at the ready, talking about looking forward to the possibility of tazering me, the fact that this checkpoint was mobile and likely had no cameras recording, there was almost no other traffic passing through either.

    I was alone.



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  3. #2
    Very proud of you man..
    The ultimate minority is the individual. Protect the individual from Democracy and you will protect all groups of individuals
    Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. - Thomas Jefferson
    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

    - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear

  4. #3
    Well done Reason, well done.
    Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings. - Heinrich Heine 1823

  5. #4

  6. #5
    At least they didn't break your window, pull you out of the car and beat the $#@! out of you, and arrest you like they did that one guy (forgot his name).

    Anyways, you did great...

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Abe View Post
    If you just answered some basic questions a law enforcement official has the right to ask, it would have been less chaotic.
    Have you given leave of your senses? He had every right not to answer and they had none to question him.
    "The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant." – John Stuart Mill

  8. #7
    Well done. Nothing shameful in being afraid, and everything to be proud of that you didn't buckle when you were (and for good reason).

    Five stars, thumbs up--all that.
    Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi

  9. #8



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  11. #9
    You did everything right. Legally you would have to give your driver's license to the local policeman/Sheriff as you were driving a motor vehicle and they do have the right to properly identify you regardless of a crime or lack thereof. Your identity is not protected under the Fifth Amendment. However, identifying yourself only pertains to your name, address, and known date of birth... not your citizenship status.
    The Peter Schiff Show - Production
    Schiff for Senate 2010 Grassroots Team Leader
    Former Campaign for Liberty Local Coordinator

  12. #10
    awesome Wolverines!!!
    Last edited by ronpaulhawaii; 01-28-2011 at 08:50 AM.
    2016 gop est business as usual, rules do not apply.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Abe View Post
    If you just answered some basic questions a law enforcement official has the right to ask, it would have been less chaotic.
    ok george you gotta stop living with your parents you sure palin didn't get channeled into you by christine O'Donnell??
    2016 gop est business as usual, rules do not apply.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Abe View Post
    If you just answered some basic questions a law enforcement official has the right to ask, it would have been less chaotic.
    Where is this right for the federal government to run a suspicionless checkpoint on a road not on an international border or at the entrance to federal installation?

    Aren't you Muslim? Why don't you step out of your car and let the nice officer search your car for bombs?
    Don't taze me bro. Don't touch my junk. Don't tread on me.

    Maybe you need a friend not into politics... http://saveadogrescue.com/ http://www.petfinder.com/pet-search?shelter_id=TX1472

  15. #13
    Great story, bro.

    Wolverines!!!
    Bachmann2012.com is For Sale, to benefit RPF and RP2012.

    Silver kills vampires: We store. We wait. We win.

    Economics, like chemistry, has nothing to do with politics. -Chodorov

  16. #14
    I wish every american would do as you did with the check point. Good job!
    In 200 years the American people have replaced 1 dictator 3,000 miles away with 3,000 dictators 1 mile away.


    It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority.--Benjamin Franklin

    No man's life, liberty or fortune is safe
    while our legislature is in session
    .--Benjamin Franklin

  17. #15
    Abe...you disappoint me.
    Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi

  18. #16



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  20. #17
    Awesome report! Nice job making a stand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abe View Post
    If you just answered some basic questions a law enforcement official has the right to ask, it would have been less chaotic.
    Seriously?

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by amy31416 View Post
    Abe...you disappoint me.
    ^^^^

    That.
    The ultimate minority is the individual. Protect the individual from Democracy and you will protect all groups of individuals
    Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. - Thomas Jefferson
    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

    - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear

  22. #19
    Great job man.
    The Heart of Conservatism is Libertarianism - Ronald Reagan

  23. #20
    This is awesome. It's great that you were able to be so calm!

  24. #21

  25. #22
    That is wonderful. I give you five stars!!!
    Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    lol
    Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito

  27. #24
    Wow, excuse me, but you sound like you have your head up your #ss and are totally delusional. How did you risk your life by being a doucher?



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Minuteman2012 View Post
    Wow, excuse me, but you sound like you have your head up your #ss and are totally delusional. How did you risk your life by being a doucher?
    Oh $#@!, here we go...
    Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings. - Heinrich Heine 1823

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Minuteman2012 View Post
    Wow, excuse me, but you sound like you have your head up your #ss and are totally delusional. How did you risk your life by being a doucher?




    And how have you lived this long without someone reminding you to breathe?
    Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Oh $#@!, here we go...
    He gives douches a bad name.

    Looking into my crystal ball...I see a banhammer in his future....
    Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Minuteman2012 View Post
    Wow, excuse me, but you sound like you have your head up your #ss and are totally delusional. How did you risk your life by being a doucher?
    The ultimate minority is the individual. Protect the individual from Democracy and you will protect all groups of individuals
    Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. - Thomas Jefferson
    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

    - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Minuteman2012 View Post
    Wow, excuse me, but you sound like you have your head up your #ss and are totally delusional. How did you risk your life by being a doucher?
    I don't see how not doing anything wrong at all constitutes having your head up ass.

    He wasn't the one threating to detain anyone.

    He wasn't suggesting shooting anyone.

    He wasn't demanding anyone to "show him their papers".

    He wasn't being overtly totalitarian.

    He wasn't violating anyones rights.

    In fact all he wanted was to be left alone, and to continue on his way. When a local officer of the law appeared, he complied with everything he was required to comply with.

    Not sure why you think he's a "doucher" with his head up his ass.....

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Kotin View Post
    Gotta give him credit, he got over 100 posts in before totally exposing himself as a "doucher" and someone who resents those who stand up for their rights.
    Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi

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