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Thread: How Obama won (the precinct leader program)

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Imperial View Post
    Working from this point then, the media enabled Obama to get the money and attention. The grassroots developed because of the attention and attention. The fact that we are building our grassroots through sheer human action rather than being abetted by easy money and publicity is not the point here. The point is that a program abetted by an upper organization can make some ground to developing grassroots. While we have less money and less publicity, it is still doable and can still help make us competitive nationwide.

    And no, I didn't forget about the media, Hillary, Obama's rise, or any of that. Quit making assumptions please.
    The internet was Ron Paul grassroots central. The media was not reporting about him. The first people saw him in the debates... the media cldn't help but show that, and EVEN then Fox removed him from the replays near the primaries.

    The word spread about Ron Paul through true grassroots efforts. The youtube videos came, the meetup groups came, Ron Paul Forums... DailyPaul.... all of this.. Ron Paul Radio, along with the MONEY BOMBS..

    Practically everything was grassroots. And Ron Paul knows it, and thats the way he based the campaign.

    There are areas that could be improved and WILL be in the future imo. There needs to be more specific advertising..

    The goal should be gaining activists or playing on peoples pet loves or hates. Gun Show - promote Ron Paul... Economic Magazine - promote Ron Paul... gets ads in Cato or whatever. Hemp organizations... Civil Liberty orientated... Anti-War... a simply bring the troops home, Ron Paul 2008... even in a socialist magazine... you think provide a link to ron pauls anti WAR messages, youtubes etc...

    They see him getting flamed in the debates, but him saying it and rebutting anyway.. the truth and honesty will sell them. The lefties will then take a look at his other policies... JUST AS I DID.

    I eventually realised I was wrong, not him..

    It's WASTED money and resources to simply put out an ad to the general populace. The zombies and sheeple.

    Maybe on a PBS program, or some show that requires brain cells and is watched by intelligentish / awake people.. there will be a better success rate.

    The way to take back the country, is through power. You can't defend liberty, without power. Watch - An Idea Whose Time has Come by G. Edward Griffin.

    I really don't think it is possible to reform the Republican party. The leaders are totally sold, they have no souls. Some people will topple their local districts and if they can - all the more power to them. Be the republican running.... but the baggage on the republicans is going to remain for a long time...

    The best op imo, is LP or some other party... the LP has effectively sold its soul though. "Party of principles" = bull$#@! now. If you want to take a party back - its that one.... Barr needs GTFO and all those that oppose an open stance on principle for votes..

    Take it back, all the Ron Paul grassroots goes to the party - campaigns hardcore and spreads the message. The two main partys need to be rejected.. and government apparatus needs to be rejected.. it is the best way to wake people up..

    How The Elite Control Politics
    “I will be as harsh as truth, and uncompromising as justice... I am in earnest, I will not equivocate, I will not excuse, I will not retreat a single inch, and I will be heard.” ~ William Lloyd Garrison

    Quote Originally Posted by TGGRV View Post
    Conza, why do you even bother? lol.
    Worthy Threads:



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    A portion of the campaign staff were grossly incompetent, and inexperienced. This lead to much mismanagement and many inefficiencies. Ron didn't have any experienced heavy-hitters on board that "had been there, done that". Left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing, and many organizational fallacies took place.

    Now, the campaign screwed up many things big time and a LOT of opportunities were lost. However, because Ron was essentially blacklisted by the media, it wouldn't have mattered if the campaign did everything right, there would've been no traction with the masses.
    The campaign was not blacklisted by the media--the campaign chose to boycott it: events were never listed in the AP Daybook (or any other), repeated requests for interviews/quotations by the MSM were simply ignored, reporters with a long history of puff pieces praising Dr. Paul couldn't get their calls or emails returned, attempts by the NYTs, etc., to do features on Dr. Paul never materialized because of hostility from Arlington. This in addition to universally rude personal treatment by the campaign to the members of the press.

    http://blog.nj.com/njv_paul_mulshine..._bad_news.html
    "Members of the public, whether right-wing or left-wing, tend to believe that the members of the press are conspiring to suppress their views. In some instances this may be true, but this case provides a textbook study in how politicians, through their own incompetence, can bungle media coverage. . .

    Maybe the others were on their way, I figured. Nope. At about 12:20, Paul's campaign chairman, Kent Snyder, abruptly informed us that there would be no press conference and that we should clear out so the candidate could meet with some contributors. When the journalists tried to ask the candidate a few questions, Snyder rudely interrupted them. . .

    Eichel's irate reader, like mine, no doubt believed that journalists were conspiring to keep the campaign out of the press. Actually it's Paul's own staff that is conspiring to do so. The conspiracy seems to be succeeding. Despite unparalleled grass-roots support, Paul's poll numbers are failing to match his very impressive fund-raising totals.

    As I've noted in prior columns, Paul's message of individual liberty could be a winning one if he ever gets it out to the masses. But the best way to reach the masses is through the mass media. No matter how hip and cool the Internet may seem, the news sites mainly link to newspaper stories.

    Other candidates are finding other ways to screw up their press coverage as well, but because I've been following the Paul campaign I found this example to be most instructive.

    It's encouraging that Paul has so many amateurs supporting him. Now if only he could find a few professionals."
    Last edited by Bradley in DC; 12-15-2008 at 07:29 AM.
    My review of the For Liberty documentary:
    digg.com/d315eji
    (please Digg and post comments on the HuffPost site)

    "This political train-wreck Republicans face can largely be traced to Bush’s philosophical metamorphosis from a traditional, non-interventionist conservative to the neoconservatives’ exemplar of a 'War President', and his positioning of the Republicans as the 'War Party'."

    Nicholas Sanchez on Bush's legacy, September 30, 2007.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley in DC View Post
    It's encouraging that Paul has so many amateurs supporting him. Now if only he could find a few professionals."
    I agree with that. I wonder if any so-called "professionals" wouldn't feel that they were risking their careers if they jumped on-board with Ron Paul?
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley in DC View Post
    The campaign was not blacklisted by the media--the campaign chose to boycott it.
    LL






    Let me know if you don't get it.... Because its blatant you don't get this. Or this... This too... From a political scientist.

    Head in the sand much mate?


    Last edited by Conza88; 12-15-2008 at 08:57 AM.
    “I will be as harsh as truth, and uncompromising as justice... I am in earnest, I will not equivocate, I will not excuse, I will not retreat a single inch, and I will be heard.” ~ William Lloyd Garrison

    Quote Originally Posted by TGGRV View Post
    Conza, why do you even bother? lol.
    Worthy Threads:

  7. #35
    Good videos there, Conza. They make me want to kick Frank, Giuliani and others in the lower quadrant of their bodies, all over again.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    I agree with that. I wonder if any so-called "professionals" wouldn't feel that they were risking their careers if they jumped on-board with Ron Paul?
    I know of at least one experienced Ron Paul supporter who was asked to do it early on and declined when saw who was running the show.

    But yes, I'm sure you're right. There probably would have been others less committed to our cause who wouldn't have done it.

    So there are probably several different reasons for different people.
    My review of the For Liberty documentary:
    digg.com/d315eji
    (please Digg and post comments on the HuffPost site)

    "This political train-wreck Republicans face can largely be traced to Bush’s philosophical metamorphosis from a traditional, non-interventionist conservative to the neoconservatives’ exemplar of a 'War President', and his positioning of the Republicans as the 'War Party'."

    Nicholas Sanchez on Bush's legacy, September 30, 2007.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Conza88 View Post
    [CENTER]LL
    I regularly got calls from reporters friendly to Ron Paul who complained that they wanted to write (favorable) stories about him but couldn't get their calls and emails returned by the campaign staff. I always heard these stories from many others in the Ron Paul community.
    My review of the For Liberty documentary:
    digg.com/d315eji
    (please Digg and post comments on the HuffPost site)

    "This political train-wreck Republicans face can largely be traced to Bush’s philosophical metamorphosis from a traditional, non-interventionist conservative to the neoconservatives’ exemplar of a 'War President', and his positioning of the Republicans as the 'War Party'."

    Nicholas Sanchez on Bush's legacy, September 30, 2007.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post

    I definitely agree that a media can make or break a candidate; I work in talk radio trust me I know. And I saw this firsthand with Ron's campaign a year ago.

    In fact it was I that made the statement that no candidate can win if the media is actively working against them.

    But the media didn't sink McCain... he sunk himself. Obama had the money, the organization, his skincolor, and the media on his side. McCain was unorganized, didn't really want to win, and was essentially running in the wrong party. If you could vote for an old white liberal guy, or a new young liberal guy, which would you choose? The choice is clear.

    And while it is obvious that the media has it's bias, don't think that the media completely caused Obama to win and McCain to lose. That is naive, ignorant, unintelligent, and lacks logic.



    Again, it's a logical stretch that just because one guy from the campaign was handing out amateur signs the conclusion is that the Obama grassroots was nonexistent.
    Ann Coulter has a lot to say about this.

    "How did we end up with the mainstream media picking the Republican candidate for president? "

    The campaign-finance laws basically restrict choice political jobs, like senator and governor -- and thus president -- to:

    (1) Men who were fatties in high school and consequently are willing to submit to the hell of running for office to compensate for their unhappy adolescences -- like Bill Clinton, Rudy Giuliani, Mike Huckabee and Newt Gingrich. (Somewhere in this great land of ours, even as we speak, the next Bill Clinton is waddling back to the cafeteria service line asking for seconds.)

    (2) Billionaires and near-billionaires -- like Jon Corzine, Steve Forbes, Michael Bloomberg and Mitt Romney -- who can fund their own campaigns (these aren't necessarily sociopaths, but it certainly limits the pool of candidates).

    (3) Celebrities and name-brand candidates -- like Arnold Schwarzenegger, George Bush, Giuliani and Hillary Clinton (which explains the nation's apparent adoration for Bushes and Clintons -- they've got name recognition, a valuable commodity amidst totalitarian restrictions on free speech).

    (4) Mainstream media-anointed candidates, like John McCain and B. Hussein Obama.

    What a bizarre coincidence that a few years after the most draconian campaign-finance laws were imposed via McCain-Feingold, our two front-runners happen to be the media's picks! It's uncanny -- almost as if by design! (Can I stop now, or do you people get sarcasm?)

    By prohibiting speech by anyone else, the campaign-finance laws have vastly magnified the power of the media -- which, by the way, are wholly exempt from speech restrictions under campaign-finance laws. The New York Times doesn't have to buy ad time to promote a politician; it just has to call McCain a "maverick" 1 billion times a year.

    It is because of campaign-finance laws like McCain-Feingold that big men don't run for office anymore. Little men do. And John McCain is the head homunculus.

    You want Reagan back? Restore the right to free speech, and you will have created the conditions that allowed Reagan to run.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley in DC View Post
    I regularly got calls from reporters friendly to Ron Paul who complained that they wanted to write (favorable) stories about him but couldn't get their calls and emails returned by the campaign staff. I always heard these stories from many others in the Ron Paul community.
    Yes I acknowledge that it would have taken place, what I'm saying is its overall effect is MINIMAL. Had they been remarkably more efficient and effective, it wouldn't have changed squat. A handful more quality stories and articles would have been great, but it is literally a drop in the bucket, which is full of snake oil.

    You choose to take the demented view, everything the media did to the campaign (the blackout) was a result of the campaign boycotting it... !

    I mean, SERIOUSLY - you are telling me, that Ron Paul was not:

    Blacklisted

    n.
    A list of persons or organizations that have incurred disapproval or suspicion or are to be boycotted or otherwise penalized.
    The mere example of Fox News banning Ron Paul before the NH primaries debate... Unequivocally shatters your thesis. Or is the Ron Paul campaign also to blame for it?

    Yeh?

    GTFO.
    “I will be as harsh as truth, and uncompromising as justice... I am in earnest, I will not equivocate, I will not excuse, I will not retreat a single inch, and I will be heard.” ~ William Lloyd Garrison

    Quote Originally Posted by TGGRV View Post
    Conza, why do you even bother? lol.
    Worthy Threads:

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Conza88 View Post
    You choose to take the demented view, everything the media did to the campaign (the blackout) was a result of the campaign boycotting it... !
    I explained my position and cited facts. You're free to believe what you want.
    My review of the For Liberty documentary:
    digg.com/d315eji
    (please Digg and post comments on the HuffPost site)

    "This political train-wreck Republicans face can largely be traced to Bush’s philosophical metamorphosis from a traditional, non-interventionist conservative to the neoconservatives’ exemplar of a 'War President', and his positioning of the Republicans as the 'War Party'."

    Nicholas Sanchez on Bush's legacy, September 30, 2007.



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  14. #41
    bump for the awesome discussion going on

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Conza88 View Post
    That I don't and thus, your premise is; that a college or university teaches students to think critically - then it is completely flawed. Because they don't.
    You should get your money back then. One of the things that 4(+) years of college is supposed to do is to train your mind to think criticially, logically, and rationally.




    Quote Originally Posted by Conza88 View Post
    I acknowledge pretty much everything I am being taught is wrong and flawed. Each day instead of accepting the mindless drivel, I am considering, then refuting it.
    And what is your major? Where are you attending?




    Quote Originally Posted by Conza88 View Post
    The media helped sink McCain. He had all the flaws, they highlighted and promoted them.
    That's because there was nothing else for them to talk about. He wasn't an outstanding candidate in any way. He wasn't really trying. His campaign was unorganized. His party's own base didn't want him.



    Quote Originally Posted by Conza88 View Post
    So is Obama as a candidate.
    Are you kidding? Hussein B.O. was the perfect candidate in that regard. Young, good looking, an eloquent speaker (as long as the teleprompter was working), he is the first black to have a chance to win, and he said the right things at the right time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Conza88 View Post
    Is he even eligible? The media ignored Obama's problems, and highlighted McCains.
    Then tell me how Bush got elected?




    Quote Originally Posted by Conza88 View Post
    It's a friggin puppet show, the whole thing served as a distraction to the war.
    I think you need to turn off the Alex Jones nonsense.


    Quote Originally Posted by Conza88 View Post
    The ILLUSION of choice was amazing..
    I do give you that. For two candidates who had policies that were very similar, the media and everyone else sure thought they were night and day. It's what I call personality marketing.




    Quote Originally Posted by Conza88 View Post
    Rudy promoted, then BAM nothing. Huckabee promoted then BAM, nothing. Romney promoted then BAM, nothing. Friggin' EVERYONE was practically limelighted for some time, bar the Tancredo. It was a friggin joke. Same with the Democrats...
    Yes, the media does that sort of thing.




    Quote Originally Posted by Conza88 View Post
    That whole Hillary / Obama... was played out endlessly, to draw attention away from the Republicans.. ONLY Ron Paul left vs McCain in the primaries... THAT is a fcken story if you are unbias and not retarded.. It was completely ignored... they don't even play off, its a long shot - but he should win... it's a long shot, he's a kook, and practically ask him if 911 was an inside job in the debates...
    Of course the media is biased and actively worked against Ron.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conza88 View Post
    There was a blackout to suppress the real choices and a massive campaign for any and everyone who was pro-status quo.
    You're right, they didn't lend equal credibility to everyone and all sides.





    Quote Originally Posted by Conza88 View Post
    Non Sequitur. Strawman.

    I didn't say that, did I... I never said it didn't exist. Btw, I like it how you cut off the paragraph; the introductory comments - my actual position, before the video.
    it is relevant because you said "watch this video that makes my point" or something of that nature.
    [/quote]
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley in DC View Post
    The campaign was not blacklisted by the media--the campaign chose to boycott it
    No, trust me the campaign was definitely blacklisted, but the campaign also completely ignored them. I largely give this thanks to Jesse Benton who is an incompetent jerk; I have had dealings with him firsthand.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley in DC View Post
    : events were never listed in the AP Daybook (or any other), repeated requests for interviews/quotations by the MSM were simply ignored, reporters with a long history of puff pieces praising Dr. Paul couldn't get their calls or emails returned, attempts by the NYTs, etc., to do features on Dr. Paul never materialized because of hostility from Arlington. This in addition to universally rude personal treatment by the campaign to the members of the press.
    Yep... let me tell my little story about this.

    I am a talk radio producer at the most listened to talk radio station in Mississippi, Alabama, Kentucky, Tennessee, and probably Arkansas; we are based in Nashville. On Oct 6th of 07 Ron was coming to town for a rally. It was the largest rally to date at the time with 2000+ (if I remember correctly).

    Anyway it was impossible to get a hold of the campaign in the weeks prior. I was trying to set Ron up with 2 interviews the week before the rally. Someone else got him on our competitors station. And I was able to get him on our afternoon show, and then the mid-morning host asked me if I could get him on his show. So I called and couldn't get an answer from anyone. It was Benton's birthday week apparently. I don't know if that played into it but someone from the office told me he was out celebrating and not taking calls.

    Anyway so I don't hear anything back. I eventually get his cellphone number and start texting him. He finally gets back with me and never says "no" but is very very very rude. So what happens? The host gets offended that Ron won't go on his show, and starts trashing him. He continues bashing Ron every chance he got.

    Nationally syndicated host Neal Boortz had a very similar experience and talked about it ON AIR.

    There was another time when Phil Valentine, a nationally syndicated host that I work for, asked me to get Ron on his show. So we get it setup and I arrive in the studio 30 minutes before the scheduled interview. And Phil tells me that Ron backed out. I asked why, and he said he didn't know but that "his people canceled".

    So I called up HQ and had to yell and cuss before I could get someone to connect me to Benton. I think it took 6 or 7 calls to the main phone. When I finally got through Benton actually said to me "well Ron is in Congress now and only has a cellphone on him, but we know you don't like to do cell phone interviews". WHAT A MORON!!!! Most people call into talk radio shows on cell phones. Truth be known, most interviews on talk radio are over a cellphone. Benton didn't have a clue and almost botched an interview of Ron getting in front of 800,000+ people live on talk radio because of Benton's ignorance.


    It was absolutely pathetic. One of the few major problems I have with Ron is his inability to choose quality and experienced people at HQ. Benton was probably the worst (in my experience) and now he's family so it's nepotism at it's finest...grrr...




    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley in DC View Post
    Eichel's irate reader, like mine, no doubt believed that journalists were conspiring to keep the campaign out of the press. Actually it's Paul's own staff that is conspiring to do so. The conspiracy seems to be succeeding. Despite unparalleled grass-roots support, Paul's poll numbers are failing to match his very impressive fund-raising totals.
    Well besides the inherent media bias against him, there was additiional anomisoty towords him because of the way the campaign completely mishandeled the media. The media likes having their ass kissed and when someone comes along and has no clue how to do that of course the media is going to bad-mouth them (even more so than normal)
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  17. #44

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley in DC View Post
    I know of at least one experienced Ron Paul supporter who was asked to do it early on and declined when saw who was running the show.
    Who would you be referring to? Now who declined, but who was running the show?
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Primbs View Post
    The New York Times doesn't have to buy ad time to promote a politician; it just has to call McCain a "maverick" 1 billion times a year.

    It is because of campaign-finance laws like McCain-Feingold that big men don't run for office anymore. Little men do. And John McCain is the head homunculus.

    You want Reagan back? Restore the right to free speech, and you will have created the conditions that allowed Reagan to run.
    Very very very true. I even overheard the head of my local GOP chairman say that "no one understands the FEC laws, they are impossible". And this guy is a high class big-time establishment attorney.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley in DC View Post
    I explained my position and cited facts. You're free to believe what you want.
    You explained your position, which is based on ignoring facts. You only seem to want to acknowledge, what you want to believe. I'd PREFER if it was that way, because then - all it would take is better management. It is NOT like that though.

    I'm not that WILLFULLY ignorant though. My pursuit is the truth. I dunno what yours is... but in order for us to SUCCEED, we need to acknowledge the ground rules. Who holds what pieces etc. Otherwise.. we ain't going anywhere.

    Did you even watch the videos Bradley? They present a broader reality; not just some anecdotal evidence. Another side note: whats your opinion on this: do you think there is a move towards world government?

    Bradley - you're also free to believe what you want... just take this too mind.

    "It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a 'dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance."- Murray Rothbard
    Obviously switch economics, with the subject at hand.
    “I will be as harsh as truth, and uncompromising as justice... I am in earnest, I will not equivocate, I will not excuse, I will not retreat a single inch, and I will be heard.” ~ William Lloyd Garrison

    Quote Originally Posted by TGGRV View Post
    Conza, why do you even bother? lol.
    Worthy Threads:

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley in DC View Post
    The campaign was not blacklisted by the media--the campaign chose to boycott it: events were never listed in the AP Daybook (or any other), repeated requests for interviews/quotations by the MSM were simply ignored, reporters with a long history of puff pieces praising Dr. Paul couldn't get their calls or emails returned, attempts by the NYTs, etc., to do features on Dr. Paul never materialized because of hostility from Arlington. This in addition to universally rude personal treatment by the campaign to the members of the press.

    http://blog.nj.com/njv_paul_mulshine..._bad_news.html
    Thanks for the link. I had heard that mentioned a few times, but I hadn't seen that article. But I do think the campaign was blacklisted by the media also.


    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    No, trust me the campaign was definitely blacklisted, but the campaign also completely ignored them. I largely give this thanks to Jesse Benton who is an incompetent jerk; I have had dealings with him firsthand.
    I do know a couple people who have had to deal with him and Jesse also has a habit of not following through on things he says he will.

    In my job, we have had people there because of nepotism. When that happened they were either normal or incomptent beyond belief. And a big part lending to the incomptence was that many people didn't want to say anything because they were worried about their own jobs. I bet the same thing is true in his case.
    Prefiero morir de pie que vivir de rodillas.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    You should get your money back then. One of the things that 4(+) years of college is supposed to do is to train your mind to think criticially, logically, and rationally.
    I've got a year & a bit to go in a 4 year course. I would be working in the real world if I didn't realise how much bull$#@! was being thrown at me. I woke up a year ago because of Ron Paul. Anyway; Economics - I know more than the lecturer. The assclown said 2 months ago, it would get better now the Aus govt was intervening... Seriously, the same retarded socialist - bull$#@! crap comes from practically every subject I undertake.

    4yrs + is indoctrination basically. I got more logic out of reading Aristotles - Ethics, than I have and WILL in 4 years + of whatever the University is offering.

    Its plausible it depends on what you are doing. Obviously engineering isn't going to be tainted will bull$#@!. Its mathematics, and the social engineers don't want their centrally planned buildings falling down, do they..

    But your premise is largely still wrong.

    A College Miseducation by Pieter J. Friedrich
    The Coming Breakdown of the Academic Cartel by Gary North
    Gary North on the College Scam Posted by Karen De Coster
    How Academic Guilds Police Higher Education by Gary North
    A Root Cause of the Failure of Contemporary Education by George Reisman
    Higher Indoctrination by Doug French
    Academics Without Academia by Gary North
    Misunderstanding Higher Education by Gary North

    And what is your major? Where are you attending?
    Doing International Business / Bus. Maj Mgt and International Relations. I'm in down under remember.. possibly more socialist, as there is no large free market tradition - in the proper sense anyway (Austrian School).

    That's because there was nothing else for them to talk about. He wasn't an outstanding candidate in any way. He wasn't really trying. His campaign was unorganized. His party's own base didn't want him.
    Yes, all part of the plan. It is the democrats turn. The American people wouldn't accept anything less. They wanted "change" - i.e anything but the republican party.

    Are you kidding? Hussein B.O. was the perfect candidate in that regard. Young, good looking, an eloquent speaker (as long as the teleprompter was working), he is the first black to have a chance to win, and he said the right things at the right time.
    Looks, aesthetics, style. NO SUBSTANCE. Also did you notice, McCains speech when he lost? He could actually speak coherently... and actually gave his best speech. As soon as it DIDN'T MATTER.

    You are a coincidence theorist.

    Then tell me how Bush got elected?
    The George Bush You Forgot

    I think you need to turn off the Alex Jones nonsense.
    I think you need to start listening to: Ron Paul.

    "McCain was obviously the back up candidate if Obama didn't win"

    "They've been positioning Obama for a long, long time"

    "You know the plans are laid for him to take care of the corporate elite"


    You FAIL remarkably.

    I do give you that. For two candidates who had policies that were very similar, the media and everyone else sure thought they were night and day. It's what I call personality marketing.
    It's what I call the false left / right paradigm. Contrasting two ideologys that are exactly the same, but presenting them as opposites.

    It's called - fcken bull$#@!, propaganda, false dichotomy, fallacious, lies.

    Yes, the media does that sort of thing.
    Yes, and who owns the media? (ignore the deregulation part... it was because of nationalization of the radio and television industry)

    Of course the media is biased and actively worked against Ron.
    You're right, they didn't lend equal credibility to everyone and all sides.
    Correct.
    “I will be as harsh as truth, and uncompromising as justice... I am in earnest, I will not equivocate, I will not excuse, I will not retreat a single inch, and I will be heard.” ~ William Lloyd Garrison

    Quote Originally Posted by TGGRV View Post
    Conza, why do you even bother? lol.
    Worthy Threads:



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Conza88 View Post
    Doing International Business / Bus. Maj Mgt and International Relations. I'm in down under remember.. possibly more socialist, as there is no large free market tradition - in the proper sense anyway (Austrian School).
    Ahh...well being in Australia will definitely make a difference. In my business school at my university practically everyone was a free market / Republican Party type.



    But I did take an Int'l Relations course once and I did indeed find it to be very socialistic / globalist in nature at least to me. But that's ok because I still learned a great deal and I am able to seperate the BS from the meat.


    Quote Originally Posted by Conza88 View Post
    Yes, all part of the plan. It is the democrats turn. The American people wouldn't accept anything less. They wanted "change" - i.e anything but the republican party.
    True. Ron Paul is essentially the only Republican who could've won. The GOP had screwed up so bad that the Dems essentially had the election handed to them by default. Also McCain got the nomination because he was the last one left standing. The "conservative vote" was split 4 or 5 different ways meaning no one had a majority except McCain.


    Quote Originally Posted by Conza88 View Post
    Looks, aesthetics, style. NO SUBSTANCE.
    Of course, because that's what sells. It's all about marketing the candidiate.



    Quote Originally Posted by Conza88 View Post
    "McCain was obviously the back up candidate if Obama didn't win"

    "They've been positioning Obama for a long, long time"

    "You know the plans are laid for him to take care of the corporate elite"
    Yes I listened and Ron is correct. Those with monied interests would've been happy with Hussein or McCain.



    Quote Originally Posted by Conza88 View Post
    It's what I call the false left / right paradigm. Contrasting two ideologys that are exactly the same, but presenting them as opposites.

    It's called - fcken bull$#@!, propaganda, false dichotomy, fallacious, lies.
    Absolutely correct.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  24. #50
    listen guys, the Ron Paul campaign and grassroots effort grew out of nothing. most were inexperienced and new to the whole thing. we survived tho and now have a chance to continue our efforts through YAL, SFL, CFL, etc...Every 3rd Party increased their vote totals by 25%. Ron Paul broke so many records. The Campaign led to the biggest grassroots Freedom Movement in over a hundred years.

    Don't get down and out. Be happy. We own the internet, we own the polls, we can own the Iowa Straw Poll if we want to. Be positive, but critical. I'm sure Paul and company has leanred alot and won't make the same or as many mistakes now. We're catching on!

  25. #51
    zack exley - the brain behind aoc

  26. #52
    And still absolute truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Conza88
    It's what I call the false left / right paradigm. Contrasting two ideologys that are exactly the same, but presenting them as opposites.

    It's called - fcken bull$#@!, propaganda, false dichotomy, fallacious, lies.
    There is no spoon.

  27. #53
    Because unlike McCain, Obama had charisma.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

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