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Thread: **Homemade weapons**

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Wilson View Post
    Rather than make your firearms why not go to the nearest Gun Show and buy a weapon of your choice legally, along with ammo and a reloader with ball and powder? Some of the weapons shown here are scary in the fact that they may be more dangeous to the user than to the enemy. Firearm storage should also be considered. A rusty firearm does not work very well -- it could get you killed. http://www.6mmbr.com/corrosiontest.html Just a suggestion.
    I wasn't showing the pics to suggest that we should all make unreliable homemade guns, but rather to illustrate that in countries where you CAN NOT "go to the nearest Gun Show and buy a weapon of your choice legally", people make their own weapons anyways.

    That is why "Gun Control" will never work. Even if the government banned ALL guns and SOMEHOW managed to stop the flow of illegal guns into the black market. Various people, whether career criminals or just those who want to protect themselves or their loved ones, would just make their own firearms and ammo in spite of the law. It really doesn't require more than metal scraps, tubing, wood and rubber bands as pcosmar's example shows. Ammo can be made from matchheads and rocks, even without the availability of metallic casings.

    The fact is, "Gun Control", even a 100% ban, only disarms the law-abiding. I know I have seen people on here saying "I wish guns were un-invented" or "if there was no black market, gun control would work". It may be nice to daydream of a magical world without offensive weapons, but unfortunately such a world does not and will never exist. Therefore the best way to protect law-abiding people is to allow them equal access to the guns criminals will always have.
    "Truth will win in the end. We just don't know when the end is. So we have to persevere." ― Carol Paul




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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Expatriate View Post
    I wasn't showing the pics to suggest that we should all make unreliable homemade guns, but rather to illustrate that in countries where you CAN NOT "go to the nearest Gun Show and buy a weapon of your choice legally", people make their own weapons anyways.

    That is why "Gun Control" will never work. Even if the government banned ALL guns and SOMEHOW managed to stop the flow of illegal guns into the black market. Various people, whether career criminals or just those who want to protect themselves or their loved ones, would just make their own firearms and ammo in spite of the law. It really doesn't require more than metal scraps, tubing, wood and rubber bands as pcosmar's example shows. Ammo can be made from matchheads and rocks, even without the availability of metallic casings.

    The fact is, "Gun Control", even a 100% ban, only disarms the law-abiding. I know I have seen people on here saying "I wish guns were un-invented" or "if there was no black market, gun control would work". It may be nice to daydream of a magical world without offensive weapons, but unfortunately such a world does not and will never exist. Therefore the best way to protect law-abiding people is to allow them equal access to the guns criminals will always have.
    Well said. I think it is very likely that Chuck Schumer from New York will get his way and ban firearms if the Democrats get total control of the government -- we will know tomorrow if that is a real possibility or not.

    In that case, the prudent thing to do is to purchase whatever firearms you want now while it is still legal to do so, along with ammo, and prepare them for storage some place where the Feds cannot find them. All gun owners will all be criminals in the eyes of the law -- much like bootleggers during prohibition.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Wilson View Post

    Having said that, I support a peaceful revolution along the lines of Gandi and Dr. King. Why shed blood if it is not necessary? .
    I wold recheck your history and the FACTS surrounding them.
    The Indian revolution was quite bloody as was the American Civil Rights Movement.

    If you chose to be a pacifist that is fine, It is your choice to do nothing while friends , family and neighbors are violated and killed.

    I am NOT a pacifist.

    BTW, I can NOT purchase any firearms, as my Rights have been infringed.
    I can however produce them at any time I so chose. And I can educate others.
    Last edited by pcosmar; 11-03-2008 at 05:43 PM.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    I wold recheck your history and the FACTS surrounding them.
    The Indian revolution was quite bloody as was the American Civil Rights Movement.

    If you chose to be a pacifist that is fine, It is your choice to do nothing while friends , family and neighbors are violated and killed.

    I am NOT a pacifist.

    BTW, I can NOT purchase any firearms, as my Rights have been infringed.
    I can however produce them at any time I so chose. And I can educate others.
    We have had this exchange before. If you knew my history you would know that I am not a pacifist. Martyrs serve a purpose but for the most part dying accomplishes nothing. If push comes to shove, the objective is to get your adversary to give up his life so that you can live and fight another day. I agree, educating others on self defense is a good thing.


    We are free today only because we are not a threat to the government. Where are they now: http://www.adl.org/extremism/Militia...p?m_flipmode=4. Be carefull.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Wilson View Post


    We are free today only because we are not a threat to the government. Where are they now: http://www.adl.org/extremism/Militia...p?m_flipmode=4. Be carefull.
    WE ARE NOT FREE
    We have not been free country in my 51 years, and it is getting worse every year.

    And QUOTING the ADL

    Pfease
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  8. #36

    The Mother Lode of homemade gun plans - and other stuff

    How to build your own 9mm submachine gun (For educational purposes only) (The author went to jail in the UK for building one)
    Here's the original easy-to-build design for a simple open-bolt homemade 9mm submachine gun. The interesting thing is that it could be made by an average person with nothing more than a hacksaw and drill - no machine tools or special skills required.
    You need a username and password to download from this site, so use this one:

    username: random4570
    password: random4570

    Click "Download" and select "Adobe Acrobat (.pdf)".

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/3170766/ex...e-instructions





    Here's some more gun designs from the same site. They are all good reads, although of course assembling most of the guns would be illegal according to the federal National Firearms Act. Make sure you download the .pdf, I have a hard time reading them otherwise. (you need the free Adobe Reader to view these files)






    Another 9mm submachine gun how-to - this one is quite handsome and built from standard pipe fittings with minimal effort:
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/6118520/ex...-bsp-9mm-smg-p








    A .32/.380 caliber homemade SMG:
    Photo Gallery
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/6454766/Ex...Vol-II-PA-Luty








    Homemade Semi-Automatic Pistol (.32/.380) (Appears to be much harder to make than the machine guns):
    http://rapidshare.com/files/16310763...2_SHO_Kimi.rar







    Home Workshop .22 Machine Pistol (looks like it requires machine tools):
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/6118895/ho...-paladin-press








    Home Workshop 9mm Submachine Gun:
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/6004246/ho...submachine-gun









    Home Workshop .50 caliber single shot Rifle (looks like it requires machine tools):
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/6118148/50...-paladin-press







    Home Workshop silencers:
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/6004153/bi...orkshop3872154







    Expedient Homemade Handgun Ammo and Reloading:
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/13116830/E...t-Handgun-Ammo








    Expedient Homemade Shotgun Ammo and Reloading
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/13116907/E...e-Shotgun-Ammo






    Disclaimer: For educational purposes only. I have not tried to make any of these guns, also I'm not responsible if you make these guns and get hurt or get in trouble.
    Last edited by Expatriate; 07-15-2009 at 02:31 PM.
    "Truth will win in the end. We just don't know when the end is. So we have to persevere." ― Carol Paul


  9. #37

    A really nice homemade SMG

    The Metral 9mm. Needs a lathe and is more complex than the above guns, but it's as good as any military 9mm SMG. Uses a Sten magazine however. Semi/Full auto with a folding stock and compact design that's reminiscent of a Mini Uzi. Field strippable. Fires from an open bolt.
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/4746679/Do...-Paladin-Press
    Last edited by Expatriate; 03-18-2011 at 09:56 PM.
    "Truth will win in the end. We just don't know when the end is. So we have to persevere." ― Carol Paul


  10. #38

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Expatriate View Post
    I wasn't showing the pics to suggest that we should all make unreliable homemade guns, but rather to illustrate that in countries where you CAN NOT "go to the nearest Gun Show and buy a weapon of your choice legally", people make their own weapons anyways.

    That is why "Gun Control" will never work. Even if the government banned ALL guns and SOMEHOW managed to stop the flow of illegal guns into the black market. Various people, whether career criminals or just those who want to protect themselves or their loved ones, would just make their own firearms and ammo in spite of the law. It really doesn't require more than metal scraps, tubing, wood and rubber bands as pcosmar's example shows. Ammo can be made from matchheads and rocks, even without the availability of metallic casings.

    The fact is, "Gun Control", even a 100% ban, only disarms the law-abiding. I know I have seen people on here saying "I wish guns were un-invented" or "if there was no black market, gun control would work". It may be nice to daydream of a magical world without offensive weapons, but unfortunately such a world does not and will never exist. Therefore the best way to protect law-abiding people is to allow them equal access to the guns criminals will always have.



    Relax, guns will never be taken from us so directly. It is in the states best interest to let you keep your guns, but rather relinquish your flow of information. Divide and Conquer is still the name of the game, no matter what century. The internet will be the first thing to go.
    “You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
    To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete."

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by eOs View Post
    Relax, guns will never be taken from us so directly. It is in the states best interest to let you keep your guns, but rather relinquish your flow of information. Divide and Conquer is still the name of the game, no matter what century. The internet will be the first thing to go.
    Well that's funny, because the National Firearms Act of '34 virtually prohibited almost all the types of weapons shown above. I would call that taking guns from us directly. And it happened over 70 years ago.

    Of course, Divide and Conquer is being used everywhere, but the purpose of the 2nd Amendment was clearly to guarantee private citizens the right to own equipment which is equally effective as that carried by a footsoldier in the Army. It did not grant that right, as Hamilton in the pre-Bill of Rights Federalist Papers explained:

    http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed29.asp
    "By thus circumscribing the plan, it will be possible to have an excellent body of well-trained militia, ready to take the field whenever the defense of the State shall require it. This will not only lessen the call for military establishments, but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist.''
    They have already blatantly contradicted the intent of the Constitution by restricting and taxing automatics, short-barreled shotguns, rifles, anti-tank weapons, demolitions equipment, and "silencers", all of which are indispensable to the military. The federal government is not granted the right to do such a thing, but seeing as such unconstitutional legislation has been in place for so long I would really not be surprised if more followed, especially from President Obama's pen (What did he say about clinging to guns again?).

    Of course we have to safeguard our other rights as well, but I'm just saying we should not stop fighting to protect our arms rights or not try to regain those already stolen from us.

    I do agree that we have to preserve our right to freedom of information, but I think you are wrong about the state allowing us to have arms. They have already taken most of them away!
    "Truth will win in the end. We just don't know when the end is. So we have to persevere." ― Carol Paul




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  14. #41
    Bump!
    "Truth will win in the end. We just don't know when the end is. So we have to persevere." ― Carol Paul


  15. #42
    blog.modernmechanix.com/2006/08/01/build-a-hunters-crossbow/
    --
    You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the means he uses to frighten you. -- Eric Hoffer

  16. #43
    5-shot repeating pump-action crossbow .pdf plans:
    http://www.vintageprojects.com/arche...bow-plans.html

    Last edited by Expatriate; 01-21-2009 at 04:53 PM.
    "Truth will win in the end. We just don't know when the end is. So we have to persevere." ― Carol Paul


  17. #44
    bump for more schematics - post 'em if you got 'em!

    Homemade airgun pictures:
    http://www.bryanandac.com/new_page_10.htm

    Some airguns are just as deadly as firearms:
    http://www.freesteader.com/forums/in...showtopic=3466 (air machine gun)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbiPy...eature=related (20mm air rifle)
    Last edited by Expatriate; 03-18-2011 at 09:59 PM.
    "Truth will win in the end. We just don't know when the end is. So we have to persevere." ― Carol Paul


  18. #45
    Day 9 Lake Titicaca

    Our day on the lake starts by meeting this chap who lives on a floating island. He shows us his home made rifle which uses home made gunpowder.
    Last edited by Expatriate; 01-21-2009 at 07:37 PM.
    "Truth will win in the end. We just don't know when the end is. So we have to persevere." ― Carol Paul


  19. #46
    One of my all time favorite's...

    This is a home built .50 cal cannon. Some dude made it from scratch, it is hand-loaded from the breech, a simple cocking and firing mechanism and a rough elevation and bearing system on the base plate.

    The f*cker weighed about 60 lbs too.

    The dude we picked this off of in Bosnia was pissed. If I had spent all that time making this on my own, I'd want to keep it too.
    Looks bigger than .50 caliber to me. Doesn't look like a naval caliber 50 either. I am guessing he means 50 millimeter, that looks about right.
    "Truth will win in the end. We just don't know when the end is. So we have to persevere." ― Carol Paul


  20. #47
    American soldiers disarming people of another sovereign state. Nice.

    What's it like to be the Nazi?
    If this should be, our final stand,
    we will stand together with pride
    We will honour the past, and fight to the last,
    it will be a good way to die
    It matters not, if the cause is lost,
    and we can not stop the tide
    We will fight to the end, and then fight again,
    it will be a good way to die

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor_Jeep View Post
    American soldiers disarming people of another sovereign state. Nice.

    What's it like to be the Nazi?
    Yeah, that thought occurred to me too. . Is it standard procedure for US troops to disarm all civilians they run across in occupied countries?

    What I'd like to know is how the soldier smuggled a big-ass artillery piece home with him. Adam Kokesh got in major trouble just for bringing back a PISTOL that he BOUGHT in the Middle East.
    Last edited by Expatriate; 01-19-2009 at 11:56 AM.
    "Truth will win in the end. We just don't know when the end is. So we have to persevere." ― Carol Paul




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  23. #49

    Manchurian repeating crossbow or "Chu-ko-nu"

    I am not too crazy about this design as it doesn't lend itself to high accuracy, but it is basically a medieval submachine gun and is pretty easy to make. The bow or "prod" would be the hardest part to make/find, but you could always use a bungee cord instead, making it into a repeating slingshot. Still, it's not hard to make a bow from bamboo strips bound with twine, as long as it's not too dried out.

    http://www.arco-iris.com/George/chu-ko-nu.htm

    A video of a kid showing how he made one of these. Although he uses a bungee cord instead of a proper bow, the principle and design is the same.

    The bolts go into the gravity-feed magazine on top.
    "Truth will win in the end. We just don't know when the end is. So we have to persevere." ― Carol Paul


  24. #50

    Coilguns

    A coilgun or gauss gun is an unusual type of weapon that uses a series of coil electromagnets to launch a projectile with similar energy to a firearm, just without all the noise and hot gases. A magazine fed repeating or automatic system is much easier to make for a coilgun since the breech does not have to be sealed, and the ammunition is caseless. The main concern is the time it takes to charge the capacitors again for a second shot; multiple capacitor banks could be a solution.

    Lots of people are making their own, since they are unregulated as far as I know, and they are much easier for someone without access to metalworking tools to make than a multi-shot firearm. They are still experimental though, and seem to be more of a curiosity than a practical weapon. Most of the ones I have seen are underpowered and unreliable, but that might have something to do with being made out of camera parts and Radio Shack components by bored computer geeks as a way to pass the time.

    http://hackedgadgets.com/2007/01/27/top-5-coil-guns/
    http://www.coilgun.ru/
    http://www.anothercoilgunsite.com/





    Last edited by Expatriate; 01-21-2009 at 06:02 PM.
    "Truth will win in the end. We just don't know when the end is. So we have to persevere." ― Carol Paul


  25. #51
    The coilgun need only achieve at least 700FPS to start scaring the tyrants.

    But what are you going to do, ban wires? You can build one from an old TV.
    If this should be, our final stand,
    we will stand together with pride
    We will honour the past, and fight to the last,
    it will be a good way to die
    It matters not, if the cause is lost,
    and we can not stop the tide
    We will fight to the end, and then fight again,
    it will be a good way to die

  26. #52

    Homemade Semi Auto .22LR pistol

    From homegunsmith.com's "Hall of Freedom"
    Made by "1216hrl"

    Posted: Oct. 04 2007,06:15
    Cleaning up a few months ago I found a barrel stub and a magazine from an old 22 I had years ago.

    So, obviously they had to be useful for something so I had a try at making my own pistol from them and a few other bits floating around.

    Most of this is scratch built, only the barrel, slide stop and magazine are pre existing parts.

    Used the design principles of a 1911 for the trigger setup suitably shortening the bow, for the reduced distance to the disconnector, and made a heel style mag release for simplicity sake.

    Frame is steel made using the method detailed in the tutorial I wrote up some time ago for making 1911 frames, slide is 6065 alloy with a steel breech face insert so it didnt get beat up on the end of the barrel.



    Slide serrations done using a ball end mill. I like the effect and it is very grippable without being sharp.
    Posted: Oct. 04 2007,06:17
    Left side shows slide locked back and the 1911 slide stop. The detent housing is a fixed part on the frame, no safety at all, the safety between our ears is the best one I have always thought
    Pulled apart it looks like this.


    cone on the barrel locks up in the slide when the slide is foward.

    recoil spring is a cut piece of FN/FAL inner return spring on a rod that locates into the barrel block.

    feed ramp is a bolt on to the barrel type of affair so I could play with the various angles to tune the feeding from the magazine.

    Buffer on the recoil spring is a piece of that plastic/ nylon wall plug stuff that you put into a drywall hole to hang stuff from. Cut of the bit that goes in the wall and it is just right to stop the slide battering into the steel frame. :anim_beer:
    WIth the wrap around wood grips off you can see some of the mechanism.

    Sorry, not a very clear photo.



    Mainspring housing is welded to the frame and has a recess milled in the back so a pair of flat springs perform the trigger disconnector return and the sear return functions.

    the flat springs are from a coil about 8 feet long that you can find inside a lawn mower pull start mechanism.

    Hammer strut is high tech 8 guage fencing wire with one end flattened for the slot in the hammer and pinned, and the other end rounded to fit in the divot in the mainspring housing cap.

    Mainspring is again a FN /FAL item and is the hammer spring from that firearm shortened to suit the housing.
    Looks very similar in every respect to a 1911 mainspring but a bit longer than most 1911 springs, something to keep in mind if you ever need to know, then again it might just be useless info.

    This pic also shows the frame high spot that performs as the ejector and how the mag heel release has to be hinged from a point above the magazine proper to perform its function and not let the mag come out to easily. I found hinging it from behind the mag meant needing a spring to heavy for practical use and that the mag tended to slip out with even a slight pull.

    this way the mag is blocked by a gate even without a spring there it stays in the mag well.
    Firing pin
    spring and stop like a 1911

    Found a lot of trouble with the firing pin being to small and sometimes damaging the chamber mouth from occasional dry firing so made the firing pin head about 1/8" diameter to spread the impact.

    only the lower 1/3rd to 1/4 actually contacts the rim of the case when firing.
    Ready to strip a round of and chamber.



    so far after some fine tuning it is incredibly smooth and reliable considering every thing that COULD have gone wrong.

    15 shots get away as fast as the trigger can be pulled, I do still get an occasional slide over a partial chambered round but that seem to be dependent on the ammo used

    It is not super accurate but does put 15 shots into a 5 inch group at about 20 paces with some vertical stringing exhibited.
    A view down the sights, also handmade.



    Grip angle is more vertical than I like but it does kind of grow on you.

    I think is is almost "glock"ish in its looks.

    The slide stop is not connected to the mag so no last round hold open but it is useful for manual activation when fiddling around as you are not playing with a round in the chamber, hammer back and no safety catch on.
    Hi guys, donor magazine was a el cheapo 22 semi made in the Phillipines if I remember correctly. Dont even remember what happened to the rifle now it was so long ago. But the mag and barrel end have been floating around my work shop for years.

    Only has a small amount of rearwards rake to it so thats why the grip angle is almost straight up and down.

    Matter of fact, I was using the barrel stub to form up the dustcover sections on the 1911 frames I was making. After straightening out the rolled piece a bit the stub fit in and let me form the sides straighter in a vise without crushing the roundness out of the pipe.
    Guess I need to machine down a piece of round stock to do that job in future.
    "Truth will win in the end. We just don't know when the end is. So we have to persevere." ― Carol Paul


  27. #53
    American ingenuity is inspiring
    "They [the Soviets] intend...to induce the Americans to adopt their own 'restructuring' and convergence of the Soviet and American systems ... Convergence will be accompanied by blood baths and political re-education camps in Western Europe and the United States. The Soviet strategists are counting on an economic depression in the United States and intend to introduce their reformed model of socialism with a human face as an alternative to the American system during the depression."
    Anatoliy Golitsyn The Perestroika Deception 1990


  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by ihsv View Post
    American ingenuity is inspiring
    Indeed, but I hope Americans aren't the only ones who can do this... well I guess the Chechens do it, but I wonder if things would change if the oppressed people in China or North Korea started making their own firearms. Still, maybe they do and we just don't hear about it, what with the apparent state monopoly on information in those regions...

    EDIT: Yes, apparently the Chinese do make homemade guns, although they have resorted to using pebbles for ammunition:

    Chinese reporters shot at police anti-gun briefing


    This is hilarious, you just can’t make this stuff up (not of course for the poor guy who was shot). The BBC reports:

    Three Chinese reporters attending a police briefing on the success of an anti-gun campaign were accidentally shot, media reports say.

    An officer picked up one of the weapons on show - a confiscated home-made gun - but it went off in his hand.

    A reporter needed surgery for injuries to his ankle, crotch and chest, after being hit by what appeared to be pebbles fired by the gun.

    It was a homemade shotgun designed for birds. UPDATE: Actually it was a homemade double barreled pistol shotgun!

    I think if anyone needs guns confiscated it is the Chinese police. Stay clear of them if you are attending the Olympics

    The classic policeman-discharging-his-pistol-in-a-classroom video shows incredible lack of safety but it is even more unbelievable that nobody checked to ensure the gun was unloaded between confiscating it, processing it, storing it and then displaying it to the media.

    More here.

    UPDATE: I found a photo of the gun at china.org.cn



    Very cool. A double barreled pistol!


    Other guns that were on display. Those looks like Norinco pistols.
    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...-gun-briefing/
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7514322.stm
    Last edited by Expatriate; 01-25-2009 at 02:10 AM.
    "Truth will win in the end. We just don't know when the end is. So we have to persevere." ― Carol Paul


  29. #55

    Hillberg Insurgency Weapon

    This is an interesting shotgun design that never caught on. It is similar to a double-action revolver, except that the striker or "hammer" rotates instead of the cylinder. This "pepperbox" design would make it easier to manufacture than either a revolver or a semi-automatic for the average person, yet still possess equivalent firepower. There are no chambers to line up with the barrel, and no moving parts in the action other than the striker assembly and a break-open breech for reloading. The end result looks very intimidating, having multiple barrels. I'm surprised I haven't seen more homemade designs like this on the internet.

    ************************************************** ***************
    Hillberg Insurgency Weapons
    The Winchester Liberator


    The Winchester Liberator and Colt Defender were two remarkable shotgun designs that sprang from the fertile imagination of gun designer Robert Hillberg. They were originally conceived as guerrilla and counter-guerrilla weapons for clandestine warfare, and as such, they were shrouded in secrecy. To appreciate the Hillberg weapons, it is first necessary to consider modern guerrilla warfare.

    Almost all guerrilla warfare is fought by indigenous peoples. Frequently, these people are unfamiliar with modern tactics and are wholly unfamiliar with weapons. As a result, the ideal guerrilla weapon must be simple and reliable. More importantly, it must posses a high probability of first round hit and a high probability of a first round kill, even in the hands of a relatively unskilled marksman. The shotgun answers these requirements perhaps better than any other weapon, and the designs proposed by Hillberg brought the shotgun to a new level of refinement for this niche.

    Hillberg's first gun was designed around several requirements. Aside from the requirements for hit probability and lethality, it must posses adequate firepower without being too complex. It should also be light and inexpensive to allow it to be delivered en masse via parachute. By early 1962 Hillberg had evolved his concept to a first design. This was a multi-barreled repeating shotgun that was basically an updated pepperbox design. This design gave the firepower of a semi-automatic without the complexity. In the initial iteration, Hillberg envisioned a weapon having four barrel in a diamond configuration, constructed from a simple single casting. His initial design called for an ammunition 'packet' holding four rounds that would be inserted into the gun as a unit, fired, and then ejected by finger pressure.



    Early tests proved the worthiness of the design. The concept weapon fired 1.5cm (20ga equivalent) loads and had 4 16.1 inch barrels. The entire weapon was only 8 inches tall, which made for a relatively concealable package that was also maneuverable in tight spaces. It weighed a mere 4 pounds and it's inherent ruggedness made it quite suitable for being air dropped. When Hillberg had completed his initial design and final drawings, he approached Winchester with the proposal of manufacturing the gun. Winchester agreed that the weapon had considerable merit but requested time to study the proposal.

    After an engineering analysis, Winchester determined that with a few minor modifications, the weapon could be manufactured for about $20 using the latest casting techniques. Armed with it's own studies, Winchester approached the defense department, and received encouragement fro DARPA, who saw that such a weapon could have vast potential, particularly in Southeast Asia, where the United States was become embroiled. Based on DARPA's encouragement, Winchester decided to go forward, with the new gun being developed under the 'Liberator Project' title, in homage to the gun's intended role, a role filled during the second world war by the Guide Lamp Division of general motors and their 'Liberator' pistol.



    During development of the first Liberator guns, it was determined that the ammunition packet possessed certain disadvantages, most notably in size and the difficulty of aligning the packet with the bores. It was also heavy. The ammunition pack that was a salient feature in the Mark I Liberator, was discarded in the later Mark II version in favor of loading individual rounds into each barrel. This had the advantage of eliminating the alignment problem and also led to a two piece, hinge open design that was to prove even simpler to manufacture than the original one piece Mark I.

    The basic features of the Liberator Mark II were outlines in a patent granted in 1964 (no. 3,260,009 reproduced here. The weapon features a pivoting breech secured by a stirrup. The was a relatively strong locking mechanism that had been used with much success on pistols of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. The barrels were moved from a diamond patter to a square on to facilitate the tipping breech.

    The weapon also features a relatively simple hammer and trigger. The hammer is a simple cylinder with helical cuts and having a fixed striker. Squeezing the full length trigger lever pulled back the striker and caused it to rotate 45 degrees. When the striker was fully retracted, the trigger allowed the striker to fall forward, rotating another 45 degrees and firing one barrel. Pulling the trigger subsequent times rotated the striker 90 degrees and fired the next barrel. This was an eminently simple and robust design that gave the liberator quite respectable firepower. In order to maximize range and lethality, the caliber of the weapon was increased to 16 gauge to take advantage of Winchester's Mark 5 shot collar, which had been developed for the Army's new buckshot ammunition.



    Using standard 16 gauge buckshot ammunition, the liberator could easily make multiple torso hits at 30 yards. On average, five hits were obtained at that range, and never less than three.

    In order to reduce weight, the Liberator Mark II was cast from two pieces of magnesium, with steel reinforcements cast in place. The whole assembly was coated with an epoxy paint and a removable shoulder stock was provided. The complete Mark II had four full choke 16 gauge barrels 13.5 inches long. The weapon measured18 inches in length and weighed 7.6 pounds with the shoulder stock.

    The completed Liberator Mark II was presented to Winchester in the middle of 1963. It was demonstrated for various military and police agencies who were impressed with it's simplicity and firepower. This was in addition to it's original mission as a 'guerrilla gun'. Both Hillberg and Winchester began to see a wider application for their unique shotgun.



    As the role of the Liberator was redefined, one featured proved troublesome. While the new shoulder stock allowed for a more stable platform, accurate shooting, particularly with slugs, was made difficult due to the long whole-hand trigger bar. What had been an asset for an insurgency weapon that might be used by someone of poor hand strength precluded the firing of accurate shots. The gun moved to much.



    On an earlier design, Hillberg had used a Smith and Wesson handgun frame as a test fixture. Recalling the reduced trigger pull, Hillberg returned to that design. Instead of a heavy revolving striker, the next generation of Liberator, the Mark III, would used a revolver like mechanism with a revolving striker on the hammer which would advance to fire each subsequent barrel. At the same time, Winchester, now completely in charge of the project, elected to make changes in the barrel cluster. There was some difficulty in casting the 4 barrel assembly with the inserts properly located. To simplify manufacture, Winchester instead elected to replace the complicated casting with a simple cluster of four steel barrels held together at the breech. A simple metal plate was welded to the muzzles to alignment and security, and this plate also formed the front sight of the weapon.



    The Liberator Mark III was only 1/2 an inch longer than the Mark II and weighed 7 pounds. In order to widen the appeal, the Liberator Mark III was changed to fire the standard 12 gauge round. The revolver-like trigger was robust and reliable. It could be fired in single action after hand cocking if precise accuracy was required, or it could be fired double action for maximum firepower. Loaded with standard 00 buckshot loads, the Liberator could deliver thirty-six .33 caliber with lethal velocity out to about 60 meters in a couple of seconds. This is a greater volume of fire than the typical sub machine gun. Unfortunately, the military orders that Winchester had hoped for were never forthcoming, and the Liberator failed to catch on with the police market.

    The Colt Defender

    The Colt Defender was the logical successor to Hillberg's earlier Liberator. With the war in Southeast Asia winding down, Hillberg sought to design a weapon that would have appeal to other purchasers - primarily law enforcement agencies. Hillberg believed his initial concept was sound, but sought to increase its versatility. The final design was completed in 1967. In designing the new gun, Hillberg reverted to the 20 gauge 3 inch magnum. He felt that this gave a more compact and easily controlled weapon with nearly identical hit potential and lethality to the 12 gauge. The new weapon was nothing if not visually impressive. Eight 12 inch barrels were joined together around a central axis. The gun possessed the familiar pistol grip revolver action mechanism with a second forward pistol grip for instinctive shooting. Overall length was 17.75 inches with a weight of 8.6 pounds. The weapon was composed of an aluminum alloy receiver with steel inserts and was covered in an epoxy paint finish.



    The final version of the weapon was available in four configurations: One version contained a receptacle for a canister of tear gas between the barrels. Pressing the trigger on the foregrip allowed the shooter to spray the target with teargas, giving him a non-lethal option. Another version incorporated a barrel selector on the rotating striker on the hammer. This allowed the shooter to select any one of the eight barrel. This meant that the weapon could be loaded with a variety of ammunition and the shooter could select which round was most appropriate for the situation in question. A third variant include both features, and the fourth had neither.

    Like the Liberator before it, the Defender possessed semi-automatic like fire without the complexity of the semi-automatic gun. It was extremely simple to operate and very robust. Hillberg believe that the double action trigger mechanism was ideal for law enforcement applications, as it minimized familiarity and training requirements..

    Hillberg thoroughly tested the Defender before seeking out a manufacturer. The design proved to be so correct, that only a couple of minor changes were made for manufacturing.

    When Colt Industries was contacted, they showed considerable interest in producing the Defender. However, before committing to production, they insisted on a market survey to see if there was an adequate market for the gun before committing to full production. Colt demonstrated the weapon to a number of departments, and all who saw it were impressed with its compactness, volume of fire and reliability. Additionally, many cited its appearance as having a decidedly deterrent effect.



    Unfortunately, the Defender was introduced at a time of national recession. Police departments found themselves scrambling to maintain what funds they already had. Despite interest showed in the Defender, Colt determined that there would not be adequate demand for the new weapon to justify full production and the product was shelved. By 1971 the Defender, like the Liberator before it, was dead.

    The Liberator and Defender shotguns designed by Robert Hillberg were perhaps some of the most innovative combat shotguns ever devised. Their compactness, reliability, firepower and simplicity have yet to be equaled by any other weapon. They certainly deserved a better fate than they received.
    From: http://tml.travellercentral.com/hillberg/index.html

    Some antique pepperbox pistols which are similar:

    Percussion 10-shot pistol:


    Early barrel-less revolver:
    Last edited by Expatriate; 01-27-2009 at 12:27 AM.

  30. #56

    Scrap shotgun

    Built in Sydney, Australia to demonstrate the futility of "gun control"

    http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/...T;f=30;t=13409
    This is a rude, crude firearm and was built specifically to illustrate the stupidity and ineffectiveness of restrictive firearms laws.
    I was employed at the Law Courts in Sydney (Aust) at the time as the Trades Officer Mechanical, (Maintenance Fitter in ordinary language). During a conversation with a couple of the High Court Judges the subject of the laws came up and they were of the opinion that it would be more difficult for criminals to get firearms.
    So, I told them that I could go up to the workshop and make a 12 gauge shotgun out of the bits in the scrapbox. Disbelief...the following is the unlovely result:



    Yes, there is a trigger and a scear and breech block etc. But there are restrictions imposed by the scrap box and in this case I'd said I'd make it out of what was available. The available bits were what would be expected to be found in the maintanence workshop of a building. There was no lathe, the only power-tools available were a pedestal drill and a bench grinder besides the usual electric hand drill and an arc welder and gas welding and cutting equipment.




    This is the receiver, built from two pieces of light angle iron, a 3/4" pipe union weldedinto the front to take the barrel which is a length of 3/4" waterpipe. There is a larger union welded oven the 3/4" one just in case something blew. A bit of drilling and hack-sawing took care of the loading/ejection (sometimes) port and the cocking slots.



    The other side, just as ugly.



    Above is the Breech block and a wooden recoil buffer.
    The block was made of a bit of pipe, two pieces of angle, small off cut for the face, a piece of broom handle bashed into the pipe,its sole purpose was to hold the nail/firingpin.








    Barreland receiver.


    The adjustable stock, adjustable because the holes were already in the scrap which was brackets from a redundant phone exchange that we'd pulled out.



    The block in the fired position

    Not shown are the cocking handle (it snapped off the last time I fired it) and the "main spring" which was a number of rubber bands from the cocking handle to the stud at the LHF of the receiver. These were the only parts not from the scrap.

    The gun has been fired with all sorts of 12ga ammo including Winchester Super X....the secret is that the barrel/chamber are so sloppy that pressure never reaches danger level.

    At 20 feet the shot will penetrate 3/8" to !/2" into a telephone book.

    And, Yes, I have fired it off the shoulder, but only with mild trap loads ! !
    Last edited by Expatriate; 01-24-2009 at 11:45 PM.
    "Truth will win in the end. We just don't know when the end is. So we have to persevere." ― Carol Paul




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  32. #57

    3-inch mortar

    More homemade artillery.

    http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/...ST;f=30;t=8714
    I'm going to run out of stuff here pretty soon, but here's some pictures of my trusty mortar.

    This was built out of 3" ID, 5" OD steel tubing, 1026 or something like that. It shoots dogfood cans full of concrete with amazing range and inaccuracy.

    The base or mount was really one of my brainfarts, quite poorly designed. It cracked on both sides while firing ground-thumping maximum loads.




    The mount can also be reversed for a lower firing angle and greater range. Backing it up with sandbags would be a good idea here.




    It all folds up for concealed carry...




    Here's the breech end of the tube.

    I made a plug out of 3" cold-rolled which was shaped something like a huge semi-wadcutter pistol bullet with a step and a tapered nose. The cylindrical section was an inch long, and the tapered nose was also an inch long. Then I bored the tube out to about 3.4" for 1" deep, then pounded that plug in cylindrical end first until the nose of it was flush with the end of the tube. The combination of turning the plug and boring the tube left a space where a good solid weld could be laid all around the plug, and built up to flush with the tube end. In other words, it's welded 1" deep all around.

    An expert welder, the foreman in the shop where I used to work, welded this with a heavy-duty wire welder. It used both gas shielding and a flux-cored wire, so he stopped to chip out the slag after each pass. The whole end of the tube was nearly glowing red hot by the time he finished. After I faced off the end square in a lathe, he then welded on the trunnion bar and the bracket for the elevation rod. The trunnions are 2" diameter where they bear in the wood.

    I forget, but I'd guess this completed tube weighs 80 pounds or more. It's a beast to carry around.



    Here's the powder measure I made to go with the gun.

    The square sliding rod is graduated from 1 to 10 in quarter-ounce increments. It is absolutely amazing the "gas mileage" you can get out of a quarter ounce of blackpowder. I mean, 1/4th ounce is roughly 110 grains, just a good hunting load for a Hawkin rifle. Yet, if you shot that Hawkin rifle at that can of concrete, what would happen? Probably it would roll back 15 feet, or maybe be kicked up 2 or 3 feet off the ground. But put that same amount of powder into this mortar, and that can of concrete flies way up into the sky, and buries itself about flush into the ground well over 100 yards away when it comes back down.

    When fired with loads over 2 ounces, the can simply disappears, then comes whistling down out of the sky about 18 seconds later. It literally whistles, loud enough to be easily heard from the firing location. Although I've never located the impact site from such a shot, I'd guess the range is over 1/4th mile even when fired at the steeper elevation.

    Probably the gun would be more efficient yet if the breech area had a reduced-diameter powder chamber to concentrate at least part of the powder charge together, since even the maximum loads are small in volume relative to the size of the bore. The 1/4th ounce loads are just a thin layer scattered across the flat breech face.

    The 3 inch bore size is ideal for this type project, since a standard size of can measures something like 2.97 inches at the rims.


    "Truth will win in the end. We just don't know when the end is. So we have to persevere." ― Carol Paul


  33. #58

    WWII Sten Gun "comic"

    Which Nazi-occupied country was this resistance "comic" from?
    "Truth will win in the end. We just don't know when the end is. So we have to persevere." ― Carol Paul


  34. #59

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    Holland?
    I think it's Denmark as the language appears to be Danish but I'm not sure.

    They made their own improvised armored car armed with an LMG turret as well.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_resistance_movement


    Last edited by Expatriate; 01-27-2009 at 10:11 PM.
    "Truth will win in the end. We just don't know when the end is. So we have to persevere." ― Carol Paul


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