|
|
|
01-15-2008, 08:58 PM
|
#1 |
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 42
|
Beware Of "seeds Of Doubt" Planted By Non-ron Paul Supports
PLEASE beware that there are those who are going into Ron Paul Forums and planting "seeds of doubt."
They talk about how they "don't know what to do," "Ron Paul's answer to the news letter and other publications is not enough," "they continue to support Ron Paul but won't send ANY money." "Ron Paul didn't apologize." ALL THIS CRAP. Don't fall for it. Just tell them to go ahead and vote for whoever they want. "One monkey don't stop no show." peace  |
|
|
|
01-15-2008, 08:59 PM
|
#2 |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,593
|
bump
__________________
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand R[∃vo˩]ution "The person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally -- not a 20 percent traitor."
|
|
|
|
|
01-15-2008, 09:10 PM
|
#3 | |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,131
|
Quote:
"1. Elections are valid, to dispute makes you a loon. 2. Mainstream polls are accurate (setting aside the irrationality that, yes, they were for RP in this case, but they were completely screwed for Obama/Hillary [in NH]). 3. Let's all gang up on HQ, call them names, demand firings, stop donating etc. 4. In general, lots of name calling and divisive behavior. Most of the people who flock to RP still have their blinders on and think CNN is real news and Wolf Blitzer conducts a great interview."
__________________
"Masterful and arrogant wealth, created largely by Government protection of its profits, not content with its domination and influence within a single party, had sought to corrupt them both, and to that end had insinuated itself into the primaries, in order that no candidates might be nominated whose views were not in accord with theirs." (‘Colonel’ Edward Mandell House in 'Philip Dru: Administrator', circa 1912) Last edited by lucius; 01-15-2008 at 09:13 PM. |
|
|
|
|
|
01-16-2008, 09:12 AM
|
#4 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 72
|
Quote:
 People are allowed to disagree with you for reasons other than "they're just a troll".I agree with the OP that the people whining about RP not apologizing more over the newsletters are just wasting our time and energy. Everyone should let that issue die. But I also think that whining about vote counts (that pass logical muster) is a waste. Even the campaign itself has said not to bother with a NH recount, and for good (statistical and logical) reason. A dispute only makes you look like a loon if there isn't sufficient enough reason for it. It's not a black/white issue. Sometimes not disputing makes you look like a loon, but you have to examine every situation individually. You can't just jump straight to "we HAVE to dispute this" as some kind of knee-jerk reaction. And I also agree with you that the name calling and divisive behavior is detrimental, and that bashing HQ doesn't do any good, but I don't agree about the polls. They are (way more often then not) accurate indicators of how things are going to play out. Yes, you could spend all of your time focusing on the ONE time so far in this primary where they got it wrong (for Clinton/Obama), or you could look at the hundreds of other scientific polls that have had RP's estimates dead-on. Ignoring polls by sticking your head in the sand and chanting, "they're not accurate... they're not accurate... they're not accurate" will do you no good. If you don't see your numbers going up in the polls, then you're not winning. Polls are a very good indicator of which tactics are working and which messages resonate with the most people. Use them to your benefit. Ignore them at your peril. WATYF |
|
|
|
|
|
01-16-2008, 10:55 AM
|
#5 | ||
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,131
|
Quote:
Quote:
“COINTELPRO is an acronym for a series of FBI counterintelligence programs designed to neutralize political dissidents.” Government Documents U.S. Congress. House. Committee on Internal Security. Hearings on Domestic Intelligence Operations for Internal Security Purposes. 93rd Cong., 2d sess, 1974. U.S. Congress. House. Select Committee on Intelligence. Hearings on Domestic Intelligence Programs. 94th Cong., 1st sess, 1975. U.S. Congress. Senate. Committee on Government Operations. Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations. Hearings on Riots, Civil and Criminal Disorders. 90th Cong., 1st sess. - 91st Cong. , 2d sess, 1967-1970. U.S. Congress. Senate. Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities. Hearings -- The National Security Agency and Fourth Amendment Rights. Vol. 6. 94th Cong., 1st sess, 1975. U.S. Congress. Senate. Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities. Hearings -- Federal Bureau of Investigation. Vol. 6. 94th Cong., 1st sess, 1975. U.S. Congress. Senate. Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities. Final Report -- Book II, Intelligence Activities and the Rights of Americans. 94th Cong., 2d sess, 1976. U.S. Congress. Senate. Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities. Final Report -- Book III , Supplementary Detailed Staff Reports on Intelligence Activities and the Rights of Americans. 94th Cong., 2d sess, 1976. Books Bamford, James, The Puzzle Palace (Penguin Press, 1983). Blackstock, Nelson, COINTELPRO: The FBI's Secret War on Political Freedom (Pathfinder, 1975). Buitrago, Ann Mari and Leon Andrew Immermann, Are You Now or Have You Ever Been in the FBI FILES: How to Secure and Interpret Your FBI Files (Grove Press Inc., 1981) Churchill, Ward and Jim Vander Wall, Agents of Repression: The FBI's Secret Wars Against the Black Panther Party and the American Indian Movement (South End Press, 1988). Central Intelligence Agency, Counterterrorist Program Primer (author and publication date unknown) Churchill, Ward and Jim Vander Wall, The COINTELPRO Papers: Documents From the FBI's Secret Wars Against Dissent in the United States (South End Press, 1990). Donner, Frank J.,The Age of Surveillance: The Aims and Methods of America's Political Intelligence System (Knopf, 1980). Donner, Frank J., Protectors of Privilege: Red Squads and Police Repression in Urban America (University of California Press, 1990). Donner, Frank J., The Un-Americans (Ballantine Books, 1961). Garrow, David J., The FBI and Martin Luther King, Jr.: From "SOLO" to Memphis (Norton, 1981). Gelbspan, Ross, Break-ins, Death Threats and the FBI: The Covert War Against the Central America Movement (South End Press, 1991). Gentry, Curt, J. Edgar Hoover: The Man and the Secrets (W.W. Norton & Company, 1991) (excerpt on the discovery of the mob) Glick, Brian, War at Home: Covert Action Against U.S. Activists and What We Can Do About It (South End Press) (excerpts COINTELPRO in the 60's * 70's* 80's & 90's). Goldstein, Robert Justin, Political Repression in Modern America (Schenkman, 1978). Haines, Gerald K. and David A. Langbart, Unlocking the Files of the FBI: A Guide to its Records and Classification System (Scholarly Resources, Inc., 1993) Hoover, J. Edgar, Masters of Deceit (Pocket Books, 1959) (excerpt: Mass Agitation). Jayco, Margaret, FBI on Trial: The victory in the Socialist Workers Party Suit against government spying (Pathfinder Press, 1988). Johnson, Loch, A Season of Inquiry: The Senate Intelligence Investigation (University of Kentucky Press, 1985). Lowenthal, Max, The Federal Bureau of Investigation (William Sloan Associates, Inc., 1950). Marx, Gary T., Under Cover: Police Surveillance in America (University of California Press, 1988). Matthiessen, Peter, In the Spirit of Crazy Horse (Viking Press, 1991) O'Reilly, Kenneth, Hoover and the Un-Americans, (Temple University Press, 1983) (Excerpt from Chapter 8, Counterintelligence) O'Reilly, Kenneth, Racial Matters: The FBI's Secret File on Black America, 1960-1972 (Free Press, 1989). Schrecker, Ellen, The Age of McCarthyism: A Brief History with Documents (St. Martin's Press, 1994) Sorrentino, Frank M., Ideological Warfare: The FBI's Path Toward Power (Associated Faculty Press, 1985). Sullivan, William C., The Bureau: My Thirty Years in Hoover's FBI (Norton, 1979). Swearingen, M. Wesley, FBI Secrets: An Agent's Expose (South End Press, 1995) (excerpt: The logistics of a black bag job). Theoharis, Athan, Spying on Americans: Political Surveillance from Hoover to the Huston Plan (Temple University Press, 1978) (Chapter 5 - Political Counterintelligence). Ungar, Sanford J., FBI: An Uncensored Look Behind the Walls (Little, Brown and Company, 1975). Articles and Websites Brandt, Daniel, The 1960s and COINTELPRO: In Defense of Paranoia (NameBase NewsLine, No. 10, July-September 1995) Burghardt, Tom, Armies of Repression: The FBI, COINTELPRO, and Far Right Vigilantee Networks Burghardt, Tom, The Public-Private Partnership Centro para la Investgación y Promoción de Derechos Civiles Las Carpetas (FBI files on Puerto Rican activists) Chomsky, Noam, Domestic Terrorism: Notes on the State System of Oppression (A revised version of the introduction to Nelson Blackstock's COINTELPRO, 1999) Churchill, Ward, The Covert War Against Native Americans Churchill, Ward, Wages of COINTELPRO Still Evident in Omaha Black Panther Case (3/10/99) FBI Watch, The FBI ... Past, Present and Future Glick, Brian, COINTELPRO Revisited - Spying & Disruption Hanrahan, Noelle, America's Secret Police: FBI COINTELPRO in the 1990s Hendricks Drew, Index to FBI Agents and Snitches Ishgooda, COINTELPRO: The FBI War Against Leonard Peltier, Native News Online Maoist International Movement, Black Panther Newspaper Collection (1967-1970) Prison Activist Resource Center, Political Prisoners and POW's in the US Rivero, Michael, What Really Happened? (COINTELPRO webpage) Solomon, Norman, and Jeff Cohen, Nothing Vague About FBI Abuse: Here Are the Dossiers Stec, Michael, Secret Documents (online document collection) Waxman, Shelly, Some Call it Murder Weinberg, Bill, Judi Bari Suit Reveals COINTELPRO Against Earth First! The Shadow, Issue #37. Wolf, Paul et al, COINTELPRO: The Untold American Story CBC report to UNHCHR Mary Robinson at the World Conference Against Racism, Durban, South Africa (Sept. 1, 2001) Zinn, Howard, The Federal Bureau of Intimidation (Covert Action Quarterly) Other Lee, Lee Lew, All Power to the People! The Black Panther Party and Beyond (Video, Electronic News Group, 1997). ps: Here is why I support Dr. Paul; I believe Gurudas said it best in his 'Treason: The New World Order': “All these people say there are powerful groups threatening our way of life. Some sources identify the bankers and corporate elite as the source of our problems, while others feel the national security state is the threat. The power of Wall Street is now obvious to many. So much is happening today that it is increasingly clear a police state is no longer some distant event to fear. The American people must awaken and join together to restore constitutional government and diminish the power of the large corporations and their agent, the federal government, so that we can again be a free people.”
__________________
"Masterful and arrogant wealth, created largely by Government protection of its profits, not content with its domination and influence within a single party, had sought to corrupt them both, and to that end had insinuated itself into the primaries, in order that no candidates might be nominated whose views were not in accord with theirs." (‘Colonel’ Edward Mandell House in 'Philip Dru: Administrator', circa 1912) |
||
|
|
|
|
01-16-2008, 11:09 AM
|
#6 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 72
|
Quote:
And no... I'm not sheltered... I don't watch CNN or Wolf Blitzer or believe that the gov't or large corporations have my best interests in mind. I am logical. Nothing else. It is not logical to waste any more time on what most likely (according to statistics) was nothing in NH. It is not logical to ignore polls, and build up a bunch of false hope, when the vast majority of the time they are accurate predictors of how the election will play out. It is not logical to focus on conspiracies that can't be proven when all they serve to do is turn people off and make them think you're a "loon". It is not logical to ignore the methods that WIN elections just so we can hang on to how "right" we think we are about certain topics. The only thing I have done up to this point is try to convince people to focus on what WORKS. Because everything else is irrelevant. If you lose the election then how "right" you are about those conspiracies does not matter. You will be no better off. You will still just be "some guy in the internet" ranting about big brother/military industrial complex/CIA/men in black/whatever who has no political representation. Do what it takes to win... THEN use the influence you've gained to try to expose the conspiracies. WATYF |
|
|
|
|
|
01-16-2008, 08:20 PM
|
#7 | ||
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,131
|
Quote:
Quote:
Like trained monkeys, their responses are predictable, yet pitiful. I do not have a definitive answer if individuals are intentionally disruptive out of malice, but I think it is prudent to be wary. IMO, this campaign is about education, our fellow Americans no longer possess the skills to function as citizens in a constitutional republic. Our success will hing on supporters educating fellow Americans to the point where Dr. Paul is the self-evident choice. Kissing babies, snappy sound-bytes and get-along-to-go-along will not prevail in this revolution, but knowledge will. I see this as due diligence on my part, as you are free to conduct yourself as you see fit. I got this recommendation for a book I am reading from people on this forum. Listen to this Congressman's warning; it is as pertinent today as it was in 1971: "The story you are about to read is true. The names have not been changed to protect the guilty. This book may have the effect of changing your life. After reading this book, you will never look at national and world events in the same way again. None Dare Call It Conspiracy will be a very controversial book. At first it will receive little publicity and those whose plans are exposed in it will try to kill it by the silent treatment. For reasons that become obvious as you read this book, it will not be reviewed in all the "proper" places or be available on your local bookstand. However, there is nothing these people can do to stop a grass roots book distributing system. Eventually it will be necessary for the people and organizations named in this book to try to blunt its effect by attacking it or the author. They have a tremendous vested interest in keeping you from discovering what they are doing. And they have the big guns of the mass media at their disposal to fire the barrages at None Dare Call It Conspiracy. By sheer volume, the "experts" will try to ridicule you out of investigating for yourself as to whether or not the information in this book is true They will ignore the fact that the author about to conjecture. They will find a typographical error or ague some point that is open to debate. If necessary they will lie in order to protect themselves by smearing this book. I believe those who pooh-pooh the information herein because Psychologically many people would prefer to believe we are because we all like to ignore bad news. We do so at our own peril. Having been a college instructor, a State Senator and now a Congressman I have had experience with real professionals at putting up smokescreens to cover up their own actions by trying to destroy the accuser. I hope that you will read the book carefully, draw your own conclusions and not accept the opinions of those who of necessity must attempt to discredit the book. Your future may depend upon it. October 25, 1971 JOHN G. SCMITZ UNITED STATES CONGRESSMAN" Enjoy, whole book at link: http://reactor-core.org/none-dare.html#introduction
__________________
"Masterful and arrogant wealth, created largely by Government protection of its profits, not content with its domination and influence within a single party, had sought to corrupt them both, and to that end had insinuated itself into the primaries, in order that no candidates might be nominated whose views were not in accord with theirs." (‘Colonel’ Edward Mandell House in 'Philip Dru: Administrator', circa 1912) |
||
|
|
|
|
01-15-2008, 09:58 PM
|
#8 |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,593
|
bump
__________________
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand R[∃vo˩]ution "The person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally -- not a 20 percent traitor."
|
|
|
|
|
01-15-2008, 10:04 PM
|
#9 |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 258
|
This seems a little bit reactionary and paranoid.
To quote a great American patriot: "We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty." |
|
|
|
|
01-15-2008, 10:17 PM
|
#10 | |
|
Anarcho-Fascist
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,971
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
 |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Hybrid Mode
