boredom?Originally Posted by TheTexan
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boredom?
All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
-Albert Camus
It is about both. It is about man's enslaved will that only chooses sin, and God's free will that chooses to give grace to whom He desires.
source?
All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
-Albert Camus
Jesus:
John 8:34
Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin."
That's a different verse. I'm asking for your source for embellishing the Romans quote. You add commentary to a quote that is plainly obvious.
All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
-Albert Camus
What is not obvious about this?
And then ends the chapter by saying:Romans 9:16
So it is God who decides to show mercy. We can neither choose it nor work for it.
Romans 9:24
And we are among those whom he selected, both from the Jews and from the Gentiles.
So it is God who decides to show mercy. We can neither choose it nor work for it.
It IS plainly obvious. YOU are the one twisting it. It has NOTHING to do with free will, or man being a slave to sin.
All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
-Albert Camus
Why do you think this? As I read it, it seems perfectly straightforward that, when it uses the words "will" and "run" it's referring to willing and running on the parts of humans, not God. A lot of English versions make this explicit, and it's true that the Greek doesn't have the word "human" like they do. But the reason they say it that way is because that's the clear meaning.
But it does clearly say that when a person gets saved that is not a result of their will.
Not in entirety. But a persons will is a necessary part.
God's Grace and Mercy are fully sufficient for all mankind. Christ's blood was sufficient for all mankind.
If a person accepts the free gift from God,, the will is involved.
God does not force salvation on anyone against their will.
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
Yes it does have to do with man's will being a slave to sin. It says man can't choose God. God must choose him.
No. It says "just because you choose God does not mean God chooses you". But you are still free to choose God.
All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
-Albert Camus
obeying your master = free, not obeying = slave
#justsolathings
All you are doing is repeating your traditions that are not found in the text of the Bible.
I'm giving you the text of the Bible and you are refusing to see it....you just turn a blind eye and go back to your traditions.
That's the lie that you keep telling but it's not Bible.
The text is only a problem for idiots like you. No one can choose anyone else to extend mercy to them. If I have a gun pointed at your head it's my choice on whether or not to pull the trigger. Now I can choose to accept or reject the mercy but I can't choose for you to extend the mercy. Here's an illustration based on a true story. I knew someone who was in prison who thought it wise to pick a fight with a 300 pound inmate. The 300 pound inmate got the best of him and was choking the life out of him. The 300 pound inmate decided to spare his life. My friend started to try the 300 pound inmate again, but then decided against it. Now here is Bible that YOU cannot deal with.Unless, you are going to deal with Romans 9:16. Are you?
Hebrews 2:3 "How shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation?"
Got it? The writer of Hebrews is making it clear. You can choose to ignore salvation but you make that choice to your peril. Here's more Bible for you that you can't deal with.
Hebrews 3:15 "As has just been said: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion.""
That was a warning against hardening your heart against the voice of God. If God was solely responsible for man hardening his heart against God then the warning in Hebrews 3:15 makes no sense. The writer of Hebrews should have said "Don't worry about hardening your heart because either you are part of the elect, in which case you lack the ability to harden your heart, or you are not part of the elect, in which case your heart is already hardened."
Your whole theology is illogical and dishonest. It's dishonest because you pretend people cannot "deal with" your silly proof-texting WHEN THE TRUTH IS WE HAVE REFUTED YOUR MISREPRESENTATION OF THE BIBLE SO MANY TIMES THAT IT'S STARTING TO GET BORING! AND YOU KNOW WE HAVE ALREADY REFUTED YOUR PROOF TEXTING!!!!!
Seriously, get over yourself.
9/11 Thermate experiments
Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I
"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"
"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul
"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
That's very strange. You say can choose to accept or reject, but the Bible says that man can't choose:
Who do you think is right?Romans 9:16
So it is God who decides to show mercy. We can neither choose it nor work for it.
Paul and I are right. You are not intelligent enough to understand Paul.
9/11 Thermate experiments
Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I
"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"
"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul
"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
What verse are you talking about? That's not Romans 9:16.
I agree with every single point you make here.
But it's important not to go beyond this. Yes, the human will is involved. But it's involved inasmuch as it is moved by God. Salvation does not depend on any human's will. God doesn't save people against their wills, but his changing of their wills is part of his saving of them.
This moving of a person's will so as to bring about saving faith is an act of God's mercy. For some, God extends this mercy and draws them into faith. But for others, he instead hardens their hearts. There is nothing different about the two groups prior to God's different acts upon them. Those to whom he chooses to show mercy and those whom he chooses to harden all start out in the same position of hating God. And Romans 9:16 says that the determining factor of whether or not a person is in the one group or the other does not depend on any choice they make.
No. Not even close.
Absolutely.
I am sure those hardened hearts had some point where God gave them a choice.
I am of firm belief that this will be shown at some point at trial. as will those that do know Christ. for they will be at trial too.
We shall all give account.. We are the witnesses.. and we can testify to the crimes of the evil one.
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
Pete, have you ever read the law court illustration in Romans 8?
I think you should read it, because it tells you what will happen on that day. It's not as you describe.
And they chose to reject God.
Just like those to whom God shows mercy had previously chosen to reject God.
There's one group who, having rejected God, God hardens them. There's another group who, having rejected God, he instead shows mercy to them and changes their hearts.
Whether any person is in the former group or the latter does not depend on their will. It only depends of God, not them.
Sola-.. again I live it..
I have experience with courts,,and trials, I was convicted.. I was guilty.
I was saved in a prison cell, I heard Gods voice then,, and since,
yours is not His.
But there is a trial coming. I have some understanding of it.. Some from scripture,, and more from an answered prayer/question.
Be very careful what you ask.
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
That is so..
A person can not will himself to be saved..
Free Will is only a point of choice,, not any position of power,, not a work that must be done.
It coexists with predestination,,when that is not taken to absurd extremes.
and it is a key part of God's perfect plan. ( looking forward to this part of the trial)
it is TodEvans approved ..
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
It's either that, or the Divine Hand of God
- Kim KardashianIt's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!
My pronouns are he/him/his
Wow. You guys are saying that no one can choose not to sin? You are saying that no one can choose to have a relationship with God?
The verse CLEARLY says we are free to choose our behavior but we CAN NOT choose God's mercy. That's GOD's choice.
It can't be written more obviously.
All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
-Albert Camus
A person can't choose to be saved, but he can choose to be saved.
How does this make sense Pete?
That's right. The natural man is free to sin. He is a slave to sin. He cannot choose God.
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