What are you talking about? I cannot make any sense out of your post.Originally Posted by Bossobass
"Gradualism in theory is perpetuity in practice." ~ William Lloyd Garrison
STRATEGY: Three Essential Guidelines for the Liberty Movement
Liberty Policy Journal
Striking at the Root
that is a great email. some how I suspect he will ignore it. Alex Jones is really disappointing. He thinks Trump is for real and is intended to mess up the "system". i stopped listeningI decided to write to Walter Block. Here's the email I sentear Dr. Block,I invite you to take a look at this thread posted on Ron/Rand Paul Forums.http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-Trump-(POTUS)I acknowledge that many of our libertarian brethren are supporting Donald Trump, but others of us are left shaking our heads as to WHY. If you look through that Campaign Evaluation Thread, you will see that so many things Donald Trump says and supports are the exact opposite of what someone running a liberty campaign should be saying. (As a result of this information, Donald Trump was labeled an unfavorable candidate for the support of Ron Paul forums.) Many of us are puzzled by the support Donald Trump is receiving from so many libertarian pundits — Lew Rockwell, Alex Jones, Justin Raimondo, Wayne Allen Root, and now you’ve created a “Libertarians for Trump” group. Are you completely ignoring the things Ron Paul is saying about Donald Trump? Do you disregard his promise to put 30,000 troops on the ground in Syria? To kill Edward Snowden? To ban guns for people on the no-fly list? To boycott Apple unless they cave to FBI demands to unlock protected iPhones? (And there’s so much more.)Please explain why all of these anti-liberty positions are being ignored by so many "libertarians". Sincerely,cajuncocoa @ Ron Paul Forums(This email is not intended to represent management of Ron Paul forums, or anyone other than myself.)
wow the formatting screwed up in my reply to cajun!
Fine. They are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
I didn't ask you to. I said Ron Paul is, essentially, a minarchist. As such, he favors a very limited degree of socialism.I don't ascribe to a label that a bunch of anarchists came up with.
I believe there are only two political systems. Capitalism and socialism. Private Property and government. Any government, even the Constitution. It's not a strike against a constitutionalist to call the Constitution socialism. Every political system mankind has created has one thing in common: a certain amount of private property and a certain amount of government (0 in the case of anarcho-capitalism).Yes. Yes, I do. I do not believe a constitutional government would be considered socialist.
I think you would agree the Post Office is socialism. Medicare is socialism. The Patriot Act is socialism. So why wouldn't it make sense to call the military and police socialism?
Still trying to limit the scope of the question to nationalism vs. globalism, eh? Fortunately Ron Paul is much better than that. He favors sovereignty at a much more decentralized level, as shown primarily from his support of individual sovereignty via libertarianism and secondarily through his support of state sovereignty via nullification and secession.I hate to break it to you, but Ron is very much for national sovereignty.
Your original comment didn't differentiate. "I love my country".Nope. Wrong again. But, then again, I differentiate between a constitutional government that our Founders gave us to the pack of traitorous pieces of crap that are in D.C. operating in OUR government.
My first paragraph is still spot-on even when compared to your vision of Constitutional government: "Great... you love your government. That's the problem. I hate it. It is evil." What happened to your types viewing the state as a necessary evil?
I'll ask again. Do you favor "retaliatory tariffs"? Is that supposed to help the economy?Trump's ideas of tariffs would only come into being if the country being traded with allowed the trade balance to get badly out of alignment. So, it would be their choice. Right now, U.S. citizens have tariffs imposed on them when trying to get their goods into say, China, but the same is not true in reverse. Nothing remotely free or fair about that arrangement.
I 100% agree with the Ron Paul view of free trade. It's starting to look like you don't.
How does taxing Americans for buying imports make it fairer and freer?
Never posted there and never will, even though the pockets of hostility towards and ignorance of liberty on this site sometimes makes me feel just as unwelcome.Feel free. They may be more to your liking.
Last edited by K466; 03-29-2016 at 02:42 PM.
"Gradualism in theory is perpetuity in practice." ~ William Lloyd Garrison
STRATEGY: Three Essential Guidelines for the Liberty Movement
Liberty Policy Journal
Striking at the Root
He didn't ignore it, but I'm not impressed with his response:
I responded:Dear C:
I fully agree with Ron’s analysis of Trump’s flaws. But, Ron never compares Trump to the other Republican candidates.
Want to join lft?
Best regards,
Walter
No, Walter....Trump will never have my vote or support for the reasons I explained. I find the very idea of "LFT" almost oxymoronic. I don't do "least among evils." I used to, but no more; I'd still be voting for "evil." I realize we'll wind up with one or the other, but not with my vote, my blessing, or my support.
Best regards to you as well,
cajuncocoa
Last edited by cajuncocoa; 03-29-2016 at 01:59 PM.
I'd be curious to see a poll of how many trump supporters are also long-time Alex Jones listeners/fans. Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with Jones. I just wonder if there's an affinity for that particular mindset to exhibit credulity about trump's supposed ability/intent to shake up Washington.
Jones and trump are definitely peas in a pod personality-wise. But they don't share much in political views.
There's something very wrong somewhere. Libertarians haven't been this stupid -- ever? I didn't see a mass organization to get behind Mitt Romney in 2012, or John McCain in 2008...my fellow libertarians knew better then. So what's going on now? I get Walter Block's explanation: that (for him) Trump may be better than the rest of the pack. That's always true about somebody, but as I said, I haven't seen a mad rush for the GOP candidate who's the "least bad" among the pack before (granted, Ron was running in 2008 & 2012, so there was that.) Why wouldn't these people wait to see who the LP nominates? I know Gary Johnson isn't everyone's favorite candidate, but if you're going for the "least bad" you'd have to give Gary Johnson the prize for that, wouldn't you? He's miles ahead of Donald Trump...so what's with all the libertarian people jumping on the Trump bandwagon? Lew Rockwell jumped on board even before Rand dropped out, and he's supposed to be such a good friend of Ron's. This all seems orchestrated and strange to me. I don't know what to make of it.
By my unofficial nose count, you've got that exactly backwards. The Jones fans are abut ten times more likely to have bought into this 'Trump the Official, MSM-Certified Anti-Establishment Candidate' pipe dream.
That could be why.
Most of these leading figures are not "on board" and mention many times there are major problems with Trump and they do not endorse him. But, there is definitely something about Trump that sets him apart: he is a viable wrecking ball to many aspects of the status quo. And that is a fascinating and exciting phenomenon even though he would make a horrible president (at best).
"Gradualism in theory is perpetuity in practice." ~ William Lloyd Garrison
STRATEGY: Three Essential Guidelines for the Liberty Movement
Liberty Policy Journal
Striking at the Root
That's all well and good. But if something like the Libertarian Party doesn't step in and build on the GOP's foundation after the wrecking ball knocks it down, the GOP will just rebuild uglier than ever.
And that's the part the trolls like LFT are trying to prevent. The Establishment wants the GOP to rebuild in an uglier, nastier form--with superdelegates.
LFT's stated goal is only to support Trump in his effort to win the nomination, not the general. Also my comment wasn't in reference to LFT but to libertarians in general since cajuncocoa was talking about the disdain for Trump being notably less than it was for Romney, McCain, Obama, etc.
"Gradualism in theory is perpetuity in practice." ~ William Lloyd Garrison
STRATEGY: Three Essential Guidelines for the Liberty Movement
Liberty Policy Journal
Striking at the Root
Trump, Sanders... what the difference?
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/why-libertarians-should-love-bernie
Last edited by LibertárioBR; 03-31-2016 at 01:16 PM. Reason: correction
Walter Block, Ralph Raico, and I have founded a group called “Libertarians for Trump.” Its website, libertariansfortrump.org, designed and managed by Martin Moulton, seeks to advance Libertarian values and discussion in the 2016 Election and invites people to join the #LFT Movement.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/05/donald-w-miller-jr-md/become-libertarian/
Flagged.
flag away but it adds to the discussion. I broke the link anyway
All aboard the Trump Train......... not.
there is a movement to persaude us to. i dont buy it nor do I endorse it
It's already been discussed ad nauseam.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-support-Trump
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...Election-Cycle
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...for-Trump-quot
You've been here a month and you're smarter than a bunch of old timers on this forum.
There is no spoon.
I didn't think you did.
There is no spoon.
flagged.
“I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul
stop wit hthe flagging. seriously, this is important information
Well. Heh. I've gradually separated from the mainstream liberty movement. Seems like it has been a bit bastardized (generally speaking) at some level and the term freedom itself is being used as a prop for oppression at times. Depends on the issue, I suppose. The movement has become a wide open area for stalking horses of varying political and social philosophies to kind of blend in and stimulate personal/political agendas. I see so many bad things being forwarded and all in the name of liberty no less. It's disturbing.
But anyway. I keep on keeping on. In terms of healthy discussion with regard to the actual principles of Individual liberty, I get more accomplished in liberal circles truth be told. It's weird, really. Maybe people in those circles aren't so hard headed and cock strong and pre-configured to go looking for a reason to stimulate the notion of bloodshed as being the only answer to things. I find liberal circles to be a more open demographic to discuss such things. Could be they just lack the fundamental principles and they are less challenging to them because of that. Maybe that's why it is easier to forward/insert/stimulate discussion of logical principles. I don't know. Liberals generally tend to be followers instead of leaders. At least out in the wild.
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 05-02-2016 at 01:04 PM.
You should quote more of the story and use the quote key - it took me a moment to realize you are quoting a story on lewrockwell, ron paul's publisher's site instead of writing it.
Nothing says liberty more than a giant wall and bigger police state.
I actually don't care if people here support Trump. Just don't expect glowing praise when you post about him.
fyi - one of the reasons I stop using sites is when the site or people (mob mentality) start trying to control the flow of facts and make the users the product instead of the beneficiary.
Posts like this should only be made for the purpose of ridiculing the source.
Does that mean you will stop using this one?
“I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul
This has been discussed and debunked in numerous threads.
Which is the only possible reason you could have for starting a whole new thread about it, instead of discussing it there.
Flagged.
Well that explains why you're still here. Now, care to explain how this is relevant to this new thread spamming old information?
Last edited by acptulsa; 05-02-2016 at 01:11 PM.
I think what people need to start understanding is that this is a forum and no set group of people deserves to have their opinions censored.
I know that we have been talking about the "site mission" and all this stuff is well and good, but I present a question.
Can a forum full of independent thinkers and different opinions have 1 specific mission?
This post can be moved to the Site Mission thread if needed but I think it is relevant here as well.
Reply With Quote
Connect With Us