You shouldn't... I suppose you do, because the tax collector has an army behind him, and you can't count on other "law-abiding tax payers" to back you up if they bust down your doors.Originally Posted by Anti Federalist
Last edited by Raginfridus; 04-06-2018 at 03:55 PM.
Anti-immigrant people? Please define and apply to our system governed by the rule of law. I'm just curious. Not looking for an argument.
JWK
Last edited by johnwk; 04-06-2018 at 04:06 PM.
Pretty much on the same page, AF, except being "free" isn't necessarily western civilization's perspective. What most consider "free" in this day and age, I consider prison.
Some say the Hazda are the freest people on earth, and few have ever heard of them- but they are being exterminated by the take over of their lands.
The Hadza: Freest People on Earth Face Extinction
https://returntonow.net/2016/02/11/h...tys-last-hope/
There is no spoon.
So we're 1/320,000,000th of the way there.
You made a series of statements in this thread indicating that you reject private property rights in favor of collective land ownership.
.
If the Guard has to, they should set up a tent city and keep the illegal entrants there until a judge has time to kick them out of our country “legally”.
No more catch and release into our communities!
JWK
American citizens are sick and tired of being made into tax-slaves to finance the economic needs of millions of poverty stricken, poorly educated, low and unskilled aliens who have invaded America borders.
Oh yes the can!
SEE:
Trump signs memo ordering end to 'catch and release' practices
04/06/18 07:32 PM EDT
As part of the order, Trump is requesting "a detailed list of all existing facilities, including military facilities, that could be used, modified, or repurposed to detain aliens for violations of immigration law at or near the borders of the United States."
Thank you President Trump for working to end catch and release. We need to keep these traffickers, drug mules, gang members, and illegal entrants in custody until they can be deported to where they came from.
JWK
American citizens are sick and tired of being made into tax-slaves to finance the economic needs of millions of poverty stricken, poorly educated, low and unskilled aliens who have invaded America borders.
Such a freedom advocate.
Got news for ya, buddy- those "tent cities" you are crying for would soon turn into prison camps for Americans, as well. Read a little history.
The ANSWER has always been: Get the gov out of welfare & entitlements and PRESTO! Your unconstitutional tax dollars will not be funding dem stinkin' brown people- only dem stinkin' DC people.
There is no spoon.
Then they argue it's too late for that, its never gonna happen. So they waste energy and time advocating for yet another thing which won't work and we'll need to pay for.Such a freedom advocate.
Got news for ya, buddy- those "tent cities" you are crying for would soon turn into prison camps for Americans, as well. Read a little history.
The ANSWER has always been: Get the gov out of welfare & entitlements and PRESTO! Your unconstitutional tax dollars will not be funding dem stinkin' brown people- only dem stinkin' DC people.
Again, are you arguing that a federal military force can or should have police powers?
First, Trump's memos don't make things legal.
Second, that memo has nothing to do with the military enforcement of law.
Third, you should really look into the difference between what the national guard can do when controlled by their state governor vs. when federalized and under the control of the president. Entirely different.
Muh history!
Muh truhditions!
Muh way of life!
... Sorry, which one of those are the mean ol' Mexicans taking from you?
Did you leave your White Culture out on the kitchen counter and when you came back it was gone?
Keep in mind our Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land. The fact is, our federal government is specifically charged with power:
”To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions” See Article 1, Section 8, Clause 15
As Commander in Chief, President Trump can lawfully exercise established emergency powers over our military and order them into action if, in his judgement, the common defense and general welfare of the United States are in jeopardy. In doing so, he must inform Congress within 48 hours of taking such action, and the troops cannot be committed for more than 60 days, unless Congress approves a longer time period. The President can also exercise an additional 30 days to re-deploy the troops.
It’s time for President Trump to exercise his powers as Commander in Chief, and keep these traffickers, drug mules, gang members, and illegal entrants in custody until they can be deported to where they came from.
Why do you have such a problem with our President exercising lawful powers to protect the good people of the United States from traffickers, drug mules, and gang members who invade our borders, and likewise protect us from illegal entrants?
JWK
There was a time not too long ago in New York when the able-bodied were ashamed to accept home relief, a program created by Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1931 when he was Governor. Now, New York City and many other major cities are infested with countless government cheese factions from poverty stricken countries, who not only demand welfare, but use it to buy beer, wine, drugs, sex, and Lotto tickets.
You never answered my question, nor did you substantiate your above insulting claim. In addition Mr. Smarty Pants, property does not have rights. Owners of property have rights associated with property ownership.
Finally, property can be owned collectively and individually. In each case, there are rights associated with property ownership, a major right being protection against trespassers.
JWK
Last edited by johnwk; 04-07-2018 at 10:22 AM.
The natl guard is a militia now?
Article 1 is the legislature. The legislature "provided for" that by using the power that you quoted to pass the posse comitatus and insurrection acts, which limit the president's ability to domestically employ the military. The president cannot use the national guard in a manner which violates those laws.
The Constitution doesn't matter during National Emergencies.
There's an emergency around here somewhere...
johnwk is unconcerned with the constitution. Really, it's okay as long as it's anybody but him shooting beaners trespassing on "his" national property.
In the meantime, I'm still stuck at how non-military persons crossing a border constitute an invasion in any common or legal sense.
Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018
It's the same sense that has us in 28 simultaneous states of national emergency, and has kept us in a state of emergency for 39 years consecutively.
Ending welfare and entitlements does nothing to stop human traffickers, drug mules, gang members, and others who would cause American Citizens harm from entering our country. Your premise is without merit.
Such a freedom advocate.
Got news for ya, buddy- those "tent cities" you are crying for would soon turn into prison camps for Americans, as well. Read a little history.
The ANSWER has always been: Get the gov out of welfare & entitlements and PRESTO! Your unconstitutional tax dollars will not be funding dem stinkin' brown people- only dem stinkin' DC people.
As to your claim about the tent cities for illegal entrants, etc., being turned into prison camps for American Citizens, we went through that crap during WWII with internment camps and Japanese-Americans. And if such activities are engaged in by folks in government it is our duty and responsibility to rise up and confront our government officials, and why our founders put the Second Amendment into our federal constitution.
Having said that, I see nothing wrong with taking illegal entrants into custody at our borders and determining if they ought to be deported to where they came from. To not do so, and to allow them to freely enter the United States is shear madness, just as it would be madness for American Citizens to allow uninvited civilians in their community to enter their home without permission.
JWK
The unavoidable truth is, our social democrat political leaders’ plan for “free” college tuition will be paid for by confiscating the paychecks of millions of college graduates who worked for and paid their own way through college and are now trying to finance their own economic needs.
Such a freedom advocate.
Got news for ya, buddy- those "tent cities" you are crying for would soon turn into prison camps for Americans, as well. Read a little history.
The ANSWER has always been: Get the gov out of welfare & entitlements and PRESTO! Your unconstitutional tax dollars will not be funding dem stinkin' brown people- only dem stinkin' DC people.
This has been decided in the USC. Never going to happen. Now we do it the hard way. We could have done it the easy way, but that was stolen from us. Now force comes into play.
No.. Never have been..
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
Using the National Guard to protect our borders is a lawful use of the Guard. It can be deployed by a state governor and/or the president, to respond to domestic emergencies, reconstruction missions such as rebuilding the Louisiana levees, foreign combat missions, anti-drugs efforts and other such assignments which includes protecting our borders!
JWK
Last edited by johnwk; 04-07-2018 at 11:14 AM.
Of course. Just as long as you don't want them to do any policing or law enforcement.
As long as it's not anything illegal, as covered by the posse comitatus act, the insurrection act, and 10 USC 275.
They are the organized militia according to federal law.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
They are a federally organized - trained, equipped, lead, and funded - functionary of the military. A National Guard. Not a militia, whatever the law may say, and unless their mission is building camps or passing out water, they won't be "repelling invaders".
Yeah, those things mean something to me.
Childish "neener neener" mocking doesn't change that.
Get back to me when you can consider and comment on this situation like a rational adult.
That said, do the native people of North Carolina have a right to oppose the changes to their political culture being imposed on them by millions of new residents from New Jersey, who are clamoring for higher taxes and more regulation?
Should they oppose it?
Or does it boil down to democracy uber alles?
I say that they do and would be within their rights to restrict immigration form another state, or restrict voting privileges or restrict access to "public" services.
Last edited by Anti Federalist; 04-07-2018 at 02:50 PM.
He just simply asked for a simple qualification of the argument. Why not just answer the question instead of attack the person asking the question?
I did.
See edit.
Oh, and I don't see my response as "an attack".
He was being a condescending jerkass and I called him on it.
Sorry I see it now- Ron Paul liberty report the other day was having me pretty convinced the public schools were to blame for a lot of America's cultural decay, someone on reddit had me convinced it was the families neglecting their kids, since basically the public schools spend more time with them they get to influence their belief system.Oh, and I don't see my response as "an attack".
He was being a condescending jerkass and I called him on it.
Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Good. They're important.
Luckily, history, traditions, and culture are not stolen from you by the mere existence of people who do not share them.
New Jersey? Is that where Mexicans come from?
Isn't New Jersey full of "cultural Americans?" Are "we" stealing our culture from "us?" This is all very confusing.
This takes me back to my previous point: the democracy uber alles types - @Swordsmyth being the most egregious example at hand - are arguing against immigration. Why do you suppose that is?
There are two ways that I see to preserve "muh culture muh truhditions muh history:" Enforce homogeneity via government, or allow everyone to do their own thing, favoring none.
In this regard, your precious majority of "cultural Americans" has backfired; the cultural enforcement was in your favor only so long as your culture was the favored culture. That is when the culture wars begun. Now, you're facing the possibility of being on the wrong end of that enforcement, and not just from the boogity boogity immigrants, but also from "cultural New Jersians" and other forms of "cultural Americans" whose culture you view as undesirable.
In a shooting war, this is when a reasonable combatant would realize that they face two avenues to proceed: a negotiated truce, or continued warfare and eventual annihilation.
Attempting to continue the culture war and enforce "muh culture" upon all "cultural Americans" only further enshrines cultural "preservation" as an appropriate role of government.
Annihilation it is.
Last edited by TheCount; 04-07-2018 at 03:40 PM.
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