Join, or Die

[Mini-Me]

To the OP, I'm sure you have the best intentions. But I also know what they say about them and the road to hell. I'm glad for your Christian awakening. But I have not heard God say "Trump is the way, walk ye in him." I do know that we wrestle not against flesh and blood. I also know that the "You've got to give me unlimited power to fight the Marxists" argument was used by a certain Austrian painter back in the 1930s. I'm not following an "orange Caeser" any more than I would a brown dictator in Obama. I gave grudging tacit support to Trump during the election because he is indeed better than Biden. As much as I loath Lindsey Graham, I am glad he held onto his seat. A lot of money poured into that. For his own selfish reasons he gave some of that money to the Trump legal team. Nice for him. But he's still slime. I'm not even sure what you want people to "join and do" or even why. When it comes to Trump supporters, even taking both halves of this forum, those you love and those you now seem to disdain, that's still a drop in the proverbial bucket and pretty much worthless. I understand the psychological boost of having more people agree with you, but I've learned over these years that such a boost is worth just slightly more than a high priced escort. So, what are you wanting people to do. Go "Yea Trump?" Okay. "Yea Trump." (Spitting the vomit out of my mouth.) Support Rand and Massie as they support Trump and (hopefully) guide him into the right direction? Yeah...most people are already doing that. Obsess even more over a recount that we can't control? Frankly....I've probably done too much of that already. But hey. Cheerlead away. Don't let me stop you.

You're right that this forum has become tiny, but it has minds that are capable of being influential if only they commit to making a difference in the real world. There was once a time when this forum was full of activists for Ron Paul, who felt that they had agency to make the world a freer place. Now we're facing the promise of a totalitarian hellscape for, well, as long as it takes for God to intervene, if we can't stop it ourselves with His help. Is your response really just to shrug helplessly? Would the Founding Fathers have shrugged helplessly? Would all of the men and women who helped them repel British subjugation?

We may be exhausting ourselves staying informed, but unless we're exhausting ourselves informing others, I'm not sure if we're taking this seriously enough. We have agency, and there are a lot of disenfranchised Trump voters right now who hugely outnumber the elites. The problem is, people are reluctant to stand up and be counted. They don't want to be alone, and many may even think that accepting defeat will let things "go back to normal." It won't. The old normal is gone forever.

What does that have to do with RPF's? There was once a time when people here understood and feared totalitarianism, and they had a fire in their belly to stop it. Judging by the responses in this thread, that time of situational awareness may have passed...but I'm here to remind people that we were not born to be passive spectators. We are among the few who might actually comprehend the horrors that America is about to face. That makes it our responsibility to get serious and help the disenfranchised Trump voters, our fellow Americans, understand exactly what will happen to them if they lay down and take this.

None of us can affect a recount or court battle or stop the Great Reset as silo'ed individuals, and we can't stop it if we act like it's someone else's problem. We can only do it as part of a massive movement, and every single person counts. That means we have to rally as many people into civic engagement as possible. I am asking you to roar, and to help others do the same. Will you whimper instead?

Americans must NOT be cowed into silent compliance, or our children and grandchildren will likely live in a hellish dystopia indefinitely. We must all find our voices now to shout "NO," not alone but together, and it is the moral duty of those who know the stakes to build energy and morale.

Reach out to everyone you know and trust and help them understand: We must not comply...not with accepting an illegitimate election, and not with accepting the Great Reset. They must understand well enough that they reach out to everyone they know, for the same purpose.

That is what I'm asking you all to do. Are we patriots, or is that too much to ask?

Regardless of how anyone personally feels about Trump, he is the most effective symbol and rallying point available right now, and our need to resist this takeover is dire. Resisting isn't about violence, or a shooting war, or crushing your enemies before you and hearing the lamentations of their women either. This is about rallying full awareness, courageous protest, and civil disobedience of whatever type necessary to avert that horror, because it may be the very last chance we ever get. We have to make them blink somehow.

Does that make more sense?

And yes, I struggle a lot with the "wrestle not against flesh and blood" thing. Navigating what we must pray for, and what we must do ourselves, is rarely easy. All I know is, the Founders won. Maybe we can too.

[Anti Federalist]

Grey Man until enough are ready to stand together.

And then.....

I'm all for it...there's just one part missing:

1 - Grey Man...Ghost

2 - ????

3 - People rise up in righteous anger and smash the system.

The Marxists beat us to it...they figured out Number 2.

[jmdrake]

You're right that this forum has become tiny, but it has minds that are capable of being influential if only they commit to making a difference in the real world. There was once a time when this forum was full of activists for Ron Paul, who felt that they had agency to make the world a freer place. Now we're facing the promise of a totalitarian hellscape for, well, as long as it takes for God to intervene, if we can't stop it ourselves with His help. Is your response really just to shrug helplessly? Would the Founding Fathers have shrugged helplessly? Would all of the men and women who helped them repel British subjugation?

We may be exhausting ourselves staying informed, but unless we're exhausting ourselves informing others, I'm not sure if we're taking this seriously enough. We have agency, and there are a lot of disenfranchised Trump voters right now who hugely outnumber the elites. The problem is, people are reluctant to stand up and be counted. They don't want to be alone, and many may even think that accepting defeat will let things "go back to normal." It won't. The old normal is gone forever.

What does that have to do with RPF's? There was once a time when people here understood and feared totalitarianism, and they had a fire in their belly to stop it. Judging by the responses in this thread, that time of situational awareness may have passed...but I'm here to remind people that we were not born to be passive spectators. We are among the few who might actually comprehend the horrors that America is about to face. That makes it our responsibility to get serious and help the disenfranchised Trump voters, our fellow Americans, understand exactly what will happen to them if they lay down and take this.

None of us can affect a recount or court battle or stop the Great Reset as silo'ed individuals, and we can't stop it if we act like it's someone else's problem. We can only do it as part of a massive movement, and every single person counts. That means we have to rally as many people into civic engagement as possible. I am asking you to roar, and to help others do the same. Will you whimper instead?

Americans must NOT be cowed into silent compliance, or our children and grandchildren will likely live in a hellish dystopia indefinitely. We must all find our voices now to shout "NO," not alone but together, and it is the moral duty of those who know the stakes to build energy and morale.

Reach out to everyone you know and trust and help them understand: We must not comply...not with accepting an illegitimate election, and not with accepting the Great Reset. They must understand well enough that they reach out to everyone they know, for the same purpose.

That is what I'm asking you all to do. Are we patriots, or is that too much to ask?

Regardless of how anyone personally feels about Trump, he is the most effective symbol and rallying point available right now, and our need to resist this takeover is dire. Resisting isn't about violence, or a shooting war, or crushing your enemies before you and hearing the lamentations of their women either. This is about rallying full awareness, courageous protest, and civil disobedience of whatever type necessary to avert that horror, because it may be the very last chance we ever get. We have to make them blink somehow.

Does that make more sense?

And yes, I struggle a lot with the "wrestle not against flesh and blood" thing. Navigating what we must pray for, and what we must do ourselves, is rarely easy. All I know is, the Founders won. Maybe we can too.

You're asking for non compliance? Ummmmm...ISN'T THAT WHAT THE AGORISTS AND THE ANCAPS HAVE BEEN ARGUING FOR ALL ALONG? @CCTelander or @Ender or any other agorist / ancap please tell me if I'm wrong. But....yeah.

Trump is pushing an authoritarian message. There are people on this forum right now demanding that we "stand up against AOC and the evil Marxists who want to defund the police." Hello? Earth to MAGA? Don't you know the police will be the ones confiscating your guns? @Anti Federalist correct me if I'm wrong.

So....you want non-compliance? That's it? I don't have to put on a red MAGA hat or carry a confederate flag or go join a right wing militia and fight mosquitoes in the summer and cold in the winter in weekend "training?" I just have to non-comply? Yeah. I'm down with that. I've been down with that. I didn't need Trump for me to be down with that. I was down with non-compliance when non compliance wasn't cool and the average Republican thought the FBI were the good guys cause they took down that "evil philandering, plagiarizing Dr. Martin Luther King Jr." (Their words...not mine). Hell, once when I was still married my wife and I put the kids in the car and drove from Nashville to Denver because she had a conference to attend and they weren't going to let her fly without a pat down because she dared ask why she had to take off her shoes at the airport! We were both democrats then. She still is. The idea that only republicans are against what the government is doing is asinine. It's just that member of one party are more likely to resist when the other party is in power.

Seriously, maybe rather than trying to get ancaps and agorists to join you, maybe you should join them. Rather than "Join Or Die" the slogan should be "Join And Don't Comply." Of course some of us will continue this non compliance even if, by some miracle, Donald Trump ultimately wins the 2020 election. The dwarfs are for the dwarfs! (If you've never read C.S. Lewis [u]The Last Battle[/b] in the Chronicles of Narnia series you have no idea what I'm talking about.)

Oh. and I'm not trying to sound preachy. I just finally looked up agorism a few weeks ago and I'm still learning about it. Some of y'all around here have been throwing around these funky words expecting the rest of us to just "get it" without explaining it! I feel deprived.

[dannno]

Not gonna lie: A big part of the reason I made this thread was to give you some much-deserved backup. You've been talking sense for years.

I also think AF has the most healthy distrust of Trump than anybody on this forum. Unless RP himself secretly posts here.

[Ender]

I'm all for it...there's just one part missing:

1 - Grey Man...Ghost

2 - ????

3 - People rise up in righteous anger and smash the system.

The Marxists beat us to it...they figured out Number 2.

2. Teach, prepare, get ready- it only takes about 3% to change the world & bring liberty.

[PAF]

You're asking for non compliance? Ummmmm...ISN'T THAT WHAT THE AGORISTS AND THE ANCAPS HAVE BEEN ARGUING FOR ALL ALONG? @CCTelander or @Ender or any other agorist / ancap please tell me if I'm wrong. But....yeah.

Trump is pushing an authoritarian message. There are people on this forum right now demanding that we "stand up against AOC and the evil Marxists who want to defund the police." Hello? Earth to MAGA? Don't you know the police will be the ones confiscating your guns? @Anti Federalist correct me if I'm wrong.

So....you want non-compliance? That's it? I don't have to put on a red MAGA hat or carry a confederate flag or go join a right wing militia and fight mosquitoes in the summer and cold in the winter in weekend "training?" I just have to non-comply? Yeah. I'm down with that. I've been down with that. I didn't need Trump for me to be down with that. I was down with non-compliance when non compliance wasn't cool and the average Republican thought the FBI were the good guys cause they took down that "evil philandering, plagiarizing Dr. Martin Luther King Jr." (Their words...not mine). Hell, once when I was still married my wife and I put the kids in the car and drove from Nashville to Denver because she had a conference to attend and they weren't going to let her fly without a pat down because she dared ask why she had to take off her shoes at the airport! We were both democrats then. She still is. The idea that only republicans are against what the government is doing is asinine. It's just that member of one party are more likely to resist when the other party is in power.

Seriously, maybe rather than trying to get ancaps and agorists to join you, maybe you should join them. Rather than "Join Or Die" the slogan should be "Join And Don't Comply." Of course some of us will continue this non compliance even if, by some miracle, Donald Trump ultimately wins the 2020 election. The dwarfs are for the dwarfs! (If you've never read C.S. Lewis [u]The Last Battle[/b] in the Chronicles of Narnia series you have no idea what I'm talking about.)

Oh. and I'm not trying to sound preachy. I just finally looked up agorism a few weeks ago and I'm still learning about it. Some of y'all around here have been throwing around these funky words expecting the rest of us to just "get it" without explaining it! I feel deprived.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jmdrake again.

[TheCount]

You're asking for non compliance? Ummmmm...ISN'T THAT WHAT THE AGORISTS AND THE ANCAPS HAVE BEEN ARGUING FOR ALL ALONG? @CCTelander or @Ender or any other agorist / ancap please tell me if I'm wrong. But....yeah.

They only want non compliance now that they think they won't be in power. They'll go right back to shouting "comply!" if and when they win.

[Occam's Banana]

They only want non compliance now that they think they won't be in power. They'll go right back to shouting "comply!" if and when they win.

I don't recall ever having heard Anti Federalist or Mini-Me shouting "comply!"

[ProBlue33]

It concerns me when people like AOC says we have project that makes a list of all Trump voters/supporters, a list people can check if you apply for, anything for from renting a place to a job. They just declared war on 70 million Americans. If you voted for Trump and live in California and can't get a job or even an interview because of this, that's where we are headed. It's really bad and goes beyond the political divide of opinions it's effecting people lives way beyond the election cycle, and it's so wrong.

[jmdrake]

They only want non compliance now that they think they won't be in power. They'll go right back to shouting "comply!" if and when they win.

Who is the "they" and what do you think they were shouting "comply" about? I'm betting you can't give a coherent answer to that question.

I don't recall ever having heard Anti Federalist or Mini-Me shouting "comply!"

^This

[Ender]

I don't recall ever having heard Anti Federalist or Mini-Me shouting "comply!"

He's talking about the Trumpalumpa name-callers.

[devil21]

What @devil21 is saying is that at the top there is no $#@!ing difference between Dems & Repubs.

And, he's right.

I don't blame people for not fully understanding what I'm saying, because most have not dove into the rabbit hole to discover what philosophies bind the "faces" together. The philosophies invariably are minor variations of the same "vision" that Mini-me described in his opening sentence. I've tried to shed some light on it in various posts on RPF yet few, if any, ever reply to those posts, while the conversation usually continues as if I hadn't posted at all. Oh well.

[acptulsa]

He's talking about the Trumpalumpa name-callers.

They've been shouting, "Comply!" all along. The big difference here is, Mini-Me is now shouting, "Comply!" in unison with them.

Yes, I understand the point. Jump on an existing cause that already has people fired up. If you can't get the right brush fire burning, find an existing brush fire and fan the flames.

It's an argument that isn't without merit. On the other hand, there's that other, pesky argument. The powers that be have presented our choice as being between one tyrant or another. Did the Poles, in 1939, comply and say, "Gee, we have no choice but choose between Stalin and Hitler"?

To use the existing brush fire to burn what actually needs to go would be brilliant. Unfortunately, this bit of arson by the Powers That Be was not designed to do that. This fire is upwind from our homes, not theirs. What I have not heard, what I do not see, is a way to divert and subvert this brush fire from our homes toward the bad guys.

Until I do, it smells to me like a fool's errand.

[Anti Federalist]

They've been shouting, "Comply!" all along. The big difference here is, Mini-Me is now shouting, "Comply!" in unison with them.

Yes, I understand the point. Jump on an existing cause that already has people fired up. If you can't get the right brush fire burning, find an existing brush fire and fan the flames.

It's an argument that isn't without merit. On the other hand, there's that other, pesky argument. The powers that be have presented our choice as being between one tyrant or another. Did the Poles, in 1939, comply and say, "Gee, we have no choice but choose between Stalin and Hitler"?

To use the existing brush fire to burn what actually needs to go would be brilliant. Unfortunately, this bit of arson by the Powers That Be was not designed to do that. This fire is upwind from our homes, not theirs. What I have not heard, what I do not see, is a way to divert and subvert this brush fire from our homes toward the bad guys.

Until I do, it smells to me like a fool's errand.

Well...nobody is going to do much of anything but bitch and complain and write SWLODs, so whether that brush fire consumes your home and all you care about, will be decided by others.

We don't do anything.

Only the Marxist left does anything.

And when they do, they win...this clearly shows that.

Riots, violence and burning $#@! down gets attention, billions of dollars in donations, immediate capitulation of local government and electoral victory at the federal level.

We sit around and double dutch rudder each other in pointless, endless arguments about nothing.

[acptulsa]

Riots, violence and burning $#@! down gets attention, billions of dollars in donations, immediate capitulation of local government and electoral victory at the federal level.

What gets attention and billions of dollars is what serves the purposes of those who have the billions and own the media. Our biggest problem is, we have so much faith in the free market that we think we could actually force the media to point their cameras and microphones in a direction that might harm the oligarchs, and that there are honest people who could collectively contribute billions.

The reality is, honest people have been getting robbed for decades and have nothing left to give, and real journalists are either blackballed or dead.

Point to the Marxists all you want and proclaim, what they're doing is working. It won't work for us. If we can't concoct a strategy that doesn't rely on the media, we can't concoct a workable plan. I've said it before, and you seem to agree every time, but again and again you come back to, "The people with the Massive Propaganda Army are doing this and we can too!" Yo, AF. Without a Massive Propaganda Army, our results will vary.

The only good I can even imagine coming out of this debacle is the end of the fiction that this is still a constitutional representative democracy. The federal government is not legitimate. It has no foundation in the laws of the land any more. If we can make that what people take away from this election, we might do some good.

The 1:48 mark is exactly what we need to spam:

[Occam's Banana]

He's talking about the Trumpalumpa name-callers.

He was replying to someone (jmdrake) who was replying directly to Mini-Me and indirectly to Anti Federalist.

No other context was provided for who he meant by "they."

[Anti Federalist]

Point to the Marxists all you want and proclaim, what they're doing is working. It won't work for us. If we can't concoct a strategy that doesn't rely on the media, we can't concoct a workable plan. I've said it before, and you seem to agree every time, but again and again you come back to, "The people with the Massive Propaganda Army are doing this and we can too!" Yo, AF. Without a Massive Propaganda Army, our results will vary.

Why does the Marxist left have the media organs in their pocket?

It's not all because of kindred ideologies, not by a long shot.

I know how to solve that problem, btw...

[Anti Federalist]

He was replying to someone (jmdrake) who was replying directly to Mini-Me and indirectly to Anti Federalist.

No other context was provided for who he meant by "they."

Yeah, that confused me as well.

Comply...with what? to whom?

My whole point in all this is to say that there is a clear difference between a political figure who will use force of government to coerce your compliance with mandates and fatwas and one who will not, or varying degrees thereof.

I changed my mind, made my case for Trump as calmly and rationally as I could and tried to persuade others to do the same.

I will maintain that we'd all have been better off had it worked out that way.

But it didn't...so...moving on.

[Ender]

He was replying to someone (jmdrake) who was replying directly to Mini-Me and indirectly to Anti Federalist.

No other context was provided for who he meant by "they."

I read it as a general term- not personal.

[Danke]

It must be extremely easy living in a world where you can disingenuously straw man the hell out of people and never feel any shame for it. When you find yourself being smug and condescending in everything you write for years on end, you might want to start looking at yourself in a mirror.

perfect

[Danke]

It must be extremely easy living in a world where you can disingenuously straw man the hell out of people and never feel any shame for it. When you find yourself being smug and condescending in everything you write for years on end, you might want to start looking at yourself in a mirror.

'Spot on

[nobody's_hero]

I guess I missed this thread when I was fasting from the forums after election day, and for me the experience was the same when it came to faith. I know that Christians all around the world are praying for this country.

It really isn't about Trump.

[PAF]

This thread is moot.

Most people in this country, let alone the rest of the world, have been conditioned to comply, and will comply if they wish to work, shop, travel, etc. The bottom line is money, survival and fun.

Some things will be driven underground. Agorists, AnCaps, anarchists will search those markets out and utilize them to the best of their ability. The rest of the voting-class will do as they are told, as certain as they walk through TSA scanners and apply and pay for CCW permission slips each and every day.

Talk is nice. Philosophy is nice. Whether hoping and waiting for somebody else to start a revolution, or if you take responsibility to start one yourself, is not productive, nor will it accomplish much with todays technology, and population mentality. Unless somebody has a plan to once and for all eliminate the fed/central banking, take all of the wealth away from all of the elite and somehow pull the power plug out of the NSA, satellites and other apparatus around the world.

I have become an Agorist because it is in my best interest. The rest of you can fight over which team wins even just to prove a point, and they thank you for your service.

[showpan]

grifters

No.

You guys really need to take this word out of that program you are using to troll the web with. In case you weren't aware of this yet, It's now just a flag that simply exposes you....lmao

[Working Poor]

HorAY for the black market keeping prices fair for you and me.

[r3volution 3.0]

In this thread, Anti Federalist wrote:

He is absolutely correct about the polarization between two visions. There is another realpolitik globalist totalitarian vision lurking behind the ideological communist useful idiots, but that's beside the point.

The point is, the battle for liberty is no longer about libertarians and Constitutionalists vs. everybody else, fighting a noble quest against the tightening of the noose within a never-ending status quo. It is now about Americans vs. globalist totalitarians and their minions.

AF said that "[Trump] represents the the (sic) entire range of thought from Ana-Caps (sic) to Neo-Cons."

There is nothing common between ancaps and neocons unless one, or both, abandon everything they believe.

So, how can they unite around Trump?

Because supporting Trump is not about policies; it's just about Trump.

It's a personality cult wherein everybody projects everything they want onto this great leader.

...except, in bright daylight, great leader is of low intelligence, no knowledge, and highly irregular psychology.

[Anti Federalist]

AF said that "[Trump] represents the the (sic) entire range of thought from Ana-Caps (sic) to Neo-Cons."

There is nothing common between ancaps and neocons unless one, or both, abandon everything they believe.

So, how can they unite around Trump?

Because supporting Trump is not about policies; it's just about Trump.

It's a personality cult wherein everybody projects everything they want onto this great leader.

...except, in bright daylight, great leader is of low intelligence, no knowledge, and highly irregular psychology.

I support Orange Man as a symbol. A symbol, that for better or worse right now, represents the the entire range of thought from Ana-Caps to Neo-Cons and everything in between. The sea of people that, for the most part, want to be left alone to live their lives, with a minimum of government interference, control and regulation and peaceful co-existence with their neighbors, without sticking their noses in their business

I stand by that analysis.

[r3volution 3.0]

I stand by that analysis.

You think that this administration has served those who "want to be left alone to live their lives, with a minimum of government interference, control and regulation and peaceful co-existence with their neighbors, without sticking their noses in their business?" The trillions of dollars in federal spending will just be paid by aliens from Mars, I suppose, or by no one, or by magic? If so, why not be a socialist? If the federal government can spend any amount of money with no consequences, let's all be millionaires! How on Earth will those of you endorsing this past year's profligacy criticize what's coming with Biden? Ah, wait, nevermind, I know: massive hypocrisy.

[Anti Federalist]

You think that this administration has served those who "want to be left alone to live their lives, with a minimum of government interference, control and regulation and peaceful co-existence with their neighbors, without sticking their noses in their business?" The trillions of dollars in federal spending will just be paid by aliens from Mars, I suppose, or by no one, or by magic? If so, why not be a socialist? If the federal government can spend any amount of money with no consequences, let's all be millionaires! How on Earth will those of you endorsing this past year's profligacy criticize what's coming with Biden? Ah, wait, nevermind, I know: massive hypocrisy.

Yes, pretty much that.

The debt is meaningless at this point...it will never be repaid...like saying I'll dog paddle the 4 light years to Alpha Centauri...numbers so stratospheric as to be meaningless.

I feel bad for whoever gets left without a seat when the music stops, but other than that, it's of no further concern of mine.

And no, I don't think that this administration has done nearly enough to serve that constituency.

This administration will prove to have done markedly better than the incoming administration will, however.

When you catch me criticizing the Biden administration over a policy because of spending, then you can call me a hypocrite.

[pcosmar]

You think that this administration has served those who "want to be left alone to live their lives, with a minimum of government interference, control and regulation and peaceful co-existence with their neighbors, without sticking their noses in their business?" The trillions of dollars in federal spending will just be paid by aliens from Mars, I suppose, or by no one, or by magic? If so, why not be a socialist? If the federal government can spend any amount of money with no consequences, let's all be millionaires! How on Earth will those of you endorsing this past year's profligacy criticize what's coming with Biden? Ah, wait, nevermind, I know: massive hypocrisy.

Yes,
As an old Ex =Con and Ron Paul supporter, I can say the Donald Trump has Done me less harm than previous, and Promised administrations.