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Thread: Rand Paul: Trump 'got bad advice' on killing of Soleimani

  1. #1

    Rand Paul: Trump 'got bad advice' on killing of Soleimani

    Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) said Monday that President Trump “got bad advice” on his decision to kill top Iranian Gen. Qassem Soleimani in a strike last week.

    Paul said on CNN’s “The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer” that “it’s now a certainty” there will be more attacks on Americans in revenge for Soleimani's killing, as the general’s replacement is a “hard-liner.” The Kentucky senator also mourned the loss of a chance for diplomacy with Iran.

    “This is sad,” he said. “I mean, the death of Soleimani, I think, is the death of diplomacy with Iran. I don't see an off-ramp. I don't see a way out of this.”

    The Kentucky senator suggested former national security adviser John Bolton was behind the efforts to kill Soleimani and said Trump received “bad advice.”

    He also said he considers killing the general an act of war that requires permission of Congress.

    Paul responded to a Washington Post report that Secretary of State Mike Pompeo came up with the idea to kill Soleimani, saying he didn’t want to question his intentions but wished the administration had considered the consequences.

    "You would have to be brain dead to believe that we tear up the agreement, we put an embargo on you and we kill your major general, and they're just going to crawl back to the table and say, 'What do you want, America?'" he said.

    He added that even though “nothing justifies their military action,” it would be “predictable.”

    Iran has responded to the killing by saying it will enact revenge against the U.S. Trump has said he has chosen 52 Iranian sites to strike should Iran retaliate, with the number chosen to represent the 52 hostages in the country in 1979.

    Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.) proposed a war powers resolution mandating Trump remove troops from Iran if he does not obtain approval from Congress. Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said the House would vote on a similar resolution.
    https://thehill.com/policy/internati...-on-killing-of



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  3. #2
    Rand shoulda had his ear on this one.

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by shakey1 View Post
    Rand shoulda had his ear on this one.
    If only then we wouldn't be in this mess.

  5. #4
    Understatement of the year.
    "The Patriarch"

  6. #5
    "got bad advice"



    Deflecting blame from Trump by shifting it onto some nebulous advisors...

    I don't recall Ron saying that Bush was a great anti-war guy who just "got bad advice."

    Rand will never be useful again until/unless he grows some balls and starts calling Trump out for what he is.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    "got bad advice"



    Deflecting blame from Trump by shifting it onto some nebulous advisors...

    I don't recall Ron saying that Bush was a great anti-war guy who just "got bad advice."

    Rand will never be useful again until/unless he grows some balls and starts calling Trump out for what he is.
    Rand has to be careful. War is popular again especially in the Republican party.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    Rand has to be careful. War is popular again especially in the Republican party.
    This.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    Rand has to be careful. War is popular again especially in the Republican party.
    But that's exactly why we need someone to speak out against it.

    So long as "teh advisors dun didit" is a viable excuse, nothing will change.

    Trump can nuke Iran tomorrow and, well, teh advisors dun didit...

    Trump himself must be held accountable.

    Rand is in a unique position to do that, but he's halfassing it.



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  11. #9
    Would the bad advice givers be held accountable?
    Or like those who gave bad advice to Bush and Obama, Senate will continue to roll with the punches of Deep Neocons 'follow the money' leaders?

    May 14, 2018
    Mega-donor Adelson, with access and influence, scores two pro- Israel victories
    These are heady days for casino billionaire and megadonor Sheldon Adelson.
    A passionate and hawkish advocate for Israel with close ties to its prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, Adelson was in Jerusalem today for a celebration of the U.S. embassy’s relocation to that city, a longstanding priority for the mogul. Similarly, Adelson had pushed hard for President Donald Trump to pull out of the Iran nuclear deal, which happened last week.
    And the day after that announcement, Adelson quietly slipped into the White House for a private meeting with Trump and three top administration officials: Vice President Mike Pence, Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin and an Adelson favorite, National Security Adviser John Bolton, according to two conservative sources familiar with the previously unreported private event.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-Z8wiRG3P0

    #1 GOP Cash Bundler, Sheldon Adelson, Calls For US to Bomb Iran w/Nuclear Weapons

    Top-neocon reverses course, says Trump's ‘most pro-Israel president ever’

    True neoconservatives:

    - Elliot Abrams (Rubio, Cruz adviser)
    - Sheldon Adelson (Billionaire donor, Rubio backer)
    - Sen. Kelly Ayotte
    - Gary Bauer
    - Cofer Black (Romney adviser)
    - Brad Blakeman
    - John Bolton (Cruz adviser)
    .....




    Thought Rand was a highly informed Senator, what is going on ?

    Hope he is not losing interest in Presidential aspirations after 2016 loss due to weak strategy , Trump team had played dirty with 'birther movement' to take an edge.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    But that's exactly why we need someone to speak out against it.

    So long as "teh advisors dun didit" is a viable excuse, nothing will change.

    Trump can nuke Iran tomorrow and, well, teh advisors dun didit...

    Trump himself must be held accountable.

    Rand is in a unique position to do that, but he's halfassing it.
    Behind the scenes im sure he is doing all he can. We will hear more this week if the resolution comes up in CONgress.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    Rand has to be careful. War is popular again especially in the Republican party.
    So he is pandering to interventionist 'Republicans' to win populairty contest within a minority of Republicans that may have been brainwashed again (fool me 3.0?) by fakenews media and globalist neocons?

    That doesn't seem logical imo looking at his track record and drive to win at any cost. During 2016 primary, bitherism was 100X more popular among Republicans than any global military adventure is today but Rand let Trump mop the floor with sharp attacks on Obama.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    So he is pandering to interventionist 'Republicans' to win populairty contest within a minority that may have been brainwashed by fakenews media and globalist neocons?

    That doesn't seem logical imo looking at his track record and drive to win at any cost. During 2016 primary, bitherism was 100X more popular among Republicans than any global military adventure is today but Rand let Trump mop the floor with sharp attacks on Obama.
    He's not pandering to anyone. He's being careful because he knows war is popular. We are back to 2003. The media and public want a war.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    Behind the scenes im sure he is doing all he can. We will hear more this week if the resolution comes up in CONgress.
    Rand played a major role in preventing Obama from launching an all out attack on Syria.

    He did that by leveling direct, brutal criticism in public, over and over.

    If we're heading toward war with Iran, it's going to take the same kind of effort to stop that.

    I appreciate that it's much harder doing this to a POTUS of one's own party, but that's what's required.

    Whispering in Trump ear isn't going to do it; Trump has no incentive to listen to Rand unless Rand's prepared to make a public stink.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post

    Whispering in Trump ear isn't going to do it; Trump has no incentive to listen to Rand unless Rand's prepared to make a public stink.
    I don't expect him to be brutal to The Donald. They speak regularly so i think criticism is going to be gentle, like this. I think he'll go further if things degenerate which they will.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    "got bad advice"



    Deflecting blame from Trump by shifting it onto some nebulous advisors...

    I don't recall Ron saying that Bush was a great anti-war guy who just "got bad advice."

    Rand will never be useful again until/unless he grows some balls and starts calling Trump out for what he is.
    Ron took some bad advice. Granted, nothing that could have provoked a war. Well, maybe a war of words on RPF.

    Those were dark days.

    It happens though. Not everyone is a stellar judge of character.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    Ron took some bad advice. Granted, nothing that could have provoked a war. Well, maybe a war of words on RPF.

    Those were dark days.

    It happens though. Not everyone is a stellar judge of character.
    Ron voted for the Afghan war.

    Rand is being held to a ridiculous standard by people who don't care about success and may actually be enemies.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    Rand has to be careful. War is popular again especially in the Republican party.
    I don't think so. There's still a very large neocon faction in the Republican party, but like with liberals, screaming loudly doesn't equal a majority.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Ron voted for the Afghan war.

    Rand is being held to a ridiculous standard by people who don't care about success and may actually be enemies.
    Rand is really the best shot we've got. Sadly I don't think he will run again. Who would want to, if you're going to have stones thrown at you from even people behind you?
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    I don't expect him to be brutal to The Donald. They speak regularly so i think criticism is going to be gentle, like this. I think he'll go further if things degenerate which they will.
    I don't buy the buddy movie script. I think Rand hates Trump and knows exactly what he is; just recall what he said during the campaign when he felt free to speak. I think Rand pretends they're pals and confidants because he (mistakenly) thinks he can convert the Trump faction from within. And I think Trump likewise pretends because Rand has become an obedient poodle who flatters Trump (and so Rand is a terrific and wonderful guy, good friend, etc). I guess that's not pretense on Trump's part, actually, more pathology.

    Anyway, I hope Rand makes the break sooner than later (and not just about this issue).

    We'll see what happens.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    Rand is really the best shot we've got. Sadly I don't think he will run again. Who would want to, if you're going to have stones thrown at you from even people behind you?
    I think he does have future plans or he might be more aggressive.
    But maybe he just believes that getting Trump to like him is the best way to use his remaining time and actually get some results.

    If he can get enough popularity with Trump's base to bring them our direction he won't need to care about the backstabbers.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    I don't buy the buddy movie script. I think Rand hates Trump and knows exactly what he is; just recall what he said during the campaign when he felt free to speak. I think Rand pretends they're pals and confidants because he (mistakenly) thinks he can convert the Trump faction from within. And I think Trump likewise pretends because Rand has become an obedient poodle who flatters Trump (and so Rand is a terrific and wonderful guy, good friend, etc). I guess that's not pretense on Trump's part, actually, more pathology.

    Anyway, I hope Rand makes the break sooner than later (and not just about this issue).

    We'll see what happens.
    I'm confident Rand will vote against the interventions when they come up but I don't expect him to use forceful rhetoric.

  25. #22
    Rand may have bad information.

    He would need to explain to me why the neocons are throwing a fit because Trump didn't tell them beforehand, and why they are attacking him now, in order to convince me that Trump got "bad advice".

    Iran should be, and may actually be grateful that the CIA stooge who was in their ranks was taken out by none other than the US military.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  26. #23
    Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.) proposed a war powers resolution mandating Trump remove troops from Iran if he does not obtain approval from Congress. Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said the House would vote on a similar resolution.
    What a brilliant ploy by Trump to turn some of these turds anti-war.. I forgot if Tim Kaine isn't all that bad, but Pelosi is and hopefully this is rubbing off on some others.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Rand may have bad information.

    He would need to explain to me why the neocons are throwing a fit because Trump didn't tell them beforehand, and why they are attacking him now, in order to convince me that Trump got "bad advice".

    Iran should be, and may actually be grateful that the CIA stooge who was in their ranks was taken out by none other than the US military.
    He was the primary warmonger in Iran and he controlled all the real power.
    The Ayatollah may have even secretly agreed with Trump to get rid of him.

    Iran is NOT unified:

    What neither side knew was that there was a spy in the summit. Iran’s MOIS, a rival of the Revolutionary Guards within the Iranian national security apparatus, secretly had an agent in the meeting who reported everything that was discussed. The MOIS agent not only attended but “acted as coordinator of this meeting,” according to the MOIS cable. The MOIS envied the Revolutionary Guards’ power and influence and secretly tried to keep track of the Guards’ activities around the world, the leaked archive shows.

    More at: https://theintercept.com/2019/11/18/...od-quds-force/
    Is MOIS working with Trump/Q?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #25
    Of course Rand, a guy can kill thousands of Americans, and if he's too popular, we just can't do anything about it.....

    Absolute trash. Rand wouldn't of even killed Bin Laden.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    I'm confident Rand will vote against the interventions when they come up but I don't expect him to use forceful rhetoric.
    Unfortunately (as to the second point), I have to agree.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    Of course Rand, a guy can kill thousands of Americans, and if he's too popular, we just can't do anything about it.....

    Absolute trash. Rand wouldn't of even killed Bin Laden.
    Even Ron said we should have put out Letters of Marque to get Bin Laden.

    I suppose the leftarians here will now attack him for it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    Of course Rand, a guy can kill thousands of Americans, and if he's too popular, we just can't do anything about it.....

    Absolute trash. Rand wouldn't of even killed Bin Laden.
    Meaning, American soldiers fighting a war in Iraq following the invasion of Iraq?

    Curious how the definition of terrorism suddenly broadened in recent days...

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Meaning, American soldiers fighting a war in Iraq following the invasion of Iraq?

    Curious how the definition of terrorism suddenly broadened in recent days...
    As Zippy said one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Meaning, American soldiers fighting a war in Iraq following the invasion of Iraq?

    Curious how the definition of terrorism suddenly broadened in recent days...
    Curious how the borders of Iran suddenly encompass Iraq in the last few days.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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