Mexico: US closes border

[Swordsmyth]

They see quinceanera as a major occasion when a girl becomes a woman in society. Other groups in society have similar "coming of age" celebrations too. Celebrations can be simple or big as a wedding. If you don't have money, you have a smaller celebration. It may include a mass or church ceremony. Should you care how they choose to celebrate it? Or are you just disappointed to have never been invited to one? (I have been to a couple).

I don't care, they shouldn't be allowed in one way or the other but one of the claimed reason to pity them and allow them in is poverty and as euphemia has pointed out several times it isn't true.

[Ender]

But that’s not why they are demanding asylum. It’s not what they are saying at all. They are saying they want jobs, even though US corporations have many manufacturing plants there. They are saying they want to escape violence, even though their behavior has proven to be violent.

And please notice, most of what you see are young men of fighting age. Very few children or women in any of the videos in proportion to the young men.

PS: I live across the street and down the street from people who were horribly persecuted in Egypt. Many people. These are people whose homes and churches were burned to the ground. I see none of that happening in Central or South America. Clearly things are not what they ought to be there, but they ar rich in natural resources and have means to live.

Time to learn a little real history:

A Short List of the Most Lethal CIA Interventions in Latin America
By Gary G. Kohls, MD

July 23, 2018

Posted by an Anonymous Author on the http://www.telesurtv.net/ website for 9/18/16.

Minimal Editing by Gary G. Kohls, MD

Che Guevera, the revolutionary face of resistance against US homicidal interventions. Two years after leading a rebellion against Washington’s intervention in Bolivia, Che was murdered.

Note: In its 200 year history, the USA has intervened in, invaded or militarily occupied the following Western Hemisphere nations: Canada, Confederate States of America, Mexico, Cuba, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Colombia, Panama, Venezuela, Surinam, Brazil, Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, Paraguay, Uruguay, Chile, Argentina, Puerto Rico, Grenada. The article below enlarges upon the 10 most lethal coups.

While the dates most associated with the Central Intelligence Agency are the 1953 coup against Iran’s Mohammed Mossadeq and the following year against Guatemalan President Jacobo Arbenz, the world’s most notorious–and possibly ignoble–spy agency actually was chartered on this day, 18 September, in 1947.

Since then, the CIA has played a role in hundreds of assassinations, military coups, and rebellions around the globe, from Argentina to Zaire.
Despite its championing of freedom, the CIA’s true objective has always been imperialist in nature. Whether oil in Iran or bananas in Guatemala, the U S has a material interest in every country in whose affairs it has meddled.

In order to meet its goals, the CIA recruits influential, intellectual and charismatic personalities. The agency also resorts to threats, kidnappings, torture, enforced disappearances and assassinations. The organization incites violence, uprisings and military rebellion, and causes economic chaos and misery to the people through scarcity of basic foods, etc.

The CIA has been exposed on a number of occasions through documented evidence, leaks of information and whistleblowing by active and former agents.

1) 1954 – Guatemala

In 1944, the violent US-backed dictatorship of Jorge Ubico was overthrown by a popular uprising. The people of Guatemala were sick and tired of the brutal injustices of his regime, although in reality Ubico was merely a puppet of the US-based United Fruit Company, and he obeyed Washington’s orders. They basically enslaved the population. They stripped campesinos and Indigenous people of their lands and forced them to work their own parcels and paid them bread crumbs. Those who dared to disobey were brutally punished by a police force working for the fruit company.

The victory of the uprising brought peace to the country but it only took 10 years for US President Dwight Eisenhower and two of his cabinet members – who also happened to be United Fruit Company insiders (Secretary of State John Foster Dulles and CIA Chief Allen Dulles) to implement a plan to overthrow the government.

In 1954, Eisenhower’s CIA launched the so-called Operation PBSuccess. The country’s capital, Guatemala City, was bombed by U.S. warplanes. The young Ernesto “Che” Guevara was there and witnessed the ordeal first hand. Hundreds of campesino leaders were executed and many campesino and Mayan Indigenous communities were completely wiped out. The brutal CIA intervention wasn’t complete until 200,000 had been killed. US companies were again enjoying huge profits in the Central American country and Washington was happy.

US-backed and financed military tyrants of Guatemala 1954

2) 1959 – Haiti

Haiti is equally strategic to the United States as are the Dominican Republic and Cuba. So, Washington doesn’t hesitate when their brutal control appears to wane in the Caribbean. Under no circumstance, would the US allow governments in the region to lean to the left. When Haiti dared to do so, US President Eisenhower had his CIA step in to push them back to the right. Of course, Cuba is a rare example of resilience to U.S. efforts to achieve hegemony in the area. Since 1959, the Cuban revolution of Fidel Castro has repealed the relentless US attacks.

But in Haiti, the story is different. In 1959, popular discontent rose against the brutal puppet of the US, Francois Duvalier. The CIA stepped in and stopped it immediately. With the help of the intelligence agency, Duvalier wasted no time and created an army to violently repress the revolution. He and his heir to the regime, Jean Claude Duvalier, ordered massacres that were so horrendous that they defy words. Over 100,000 people were murdered. And in 1986, when a new but uncontrollable rebellion took over, a US Air Force plane rescued Jean Claude and took him to France where he lived in peaceful luxury.

US puppet Francois “Papa Doc” Duvalier—a CIA murderer

3) 1964 – Brazil

The year of 1964 was one of incredible transformation in Brazil. Democratically-elected President Joao Goulart implemented his “Plan of Basic Reforms.” Even though the US had exerted much of its power through ensuring people weren’t lifted from ignorance and illiteracy, Brazil implemented real changes that made Washington very uncomfortable. Firstly, a tax reform was put in place that would hugely carve into the profits of the multinational corporations of the United States and its allies. Washington was also very unhappy with a reform by which land would be given back to their legitimate owners and would redistribute other lands to poor people.

It was now time to send in US President Lyndon Johnson’s CIA to take action against the government of Goulart, which they did in 1964. They put in power a brutal dictatorship that lasted 19 years. During this regime, thousands were tortured and hundreds executed. The CIA also made sure all those leaders who had leftist tendencies were eliminated, particularly Marxists.

4) 1969 – Uruguay

During the sixties, revolutionary movements spread through Latin America. Uruguay was drowned in crises. The US saw influential socialist leaders emerge in this South American nation. Washington became obsessed with eliminating them, fearing the influence and power they were achieving.
Nelson Rockefeller went to Uruguay to observe first-hand how they were generating a growing “Yankee Go Home” sentiment. He returned to Washington to alert authorities that something needed to be done – and fast.

Of course, US President Richard Nixon’s CIA responded immediately. They sent their special agent Dan Mitrione. He trained security forces in the art of torture and other highly macabre practices that are indescribable in nature. And then the CIA put in power military dictator Juan Maria Bordaberry who ruled under direct order from Washington for the next 12 years, during which time he killed hundreds of people and tortured tens of thousands more. Repression was so brutal and Uruguayans were so traumatized and fearful that they no longer carried out their traditional dances, which symbolized happiness and victory.

5) 1971 – Bolivia

The vast Latin American natural resources are the envy of the greedy and powerful politicians of the US, who resort to any means possible to control them for their own benefit (and never for the people and countries whom they brutally exploit). During decades, U.S. multinational corporations enslaved people in vast regions of Chile, Bolivia and Peru. When those living under slavery conditions dared to rebel against their oppressors, they were annihilated in bulk. Che Guevara felt compelled to go to Bolivia to help the people revolt.

That was 1967. By then, US mining companies had enslaved entire communities, even banning children from going to school. Two years later, Che Guevara was murdered by (US President Richard Nixon’s) CIA. Once Che was out of the way, CIA officials established a military regime.

However, the people again turned on Washington. General Juan Jose Torres took power and implemented reforms to benefit workers and those living in poverty. Hope returned to Bolivia and its people, but the CIA would not allow this to continue. The agency recruited General Hugo Banzer. He led the coup against Torres and in 1971, he kicked off his violent dictatorship. He ordered the imprisonment and torture of a number of opposition leaders and the execution of hundreds of influential political leaders. He sent about 8,000 other leaders to jail and Washington was happy.

6) 1973 – Chile

Chilean President Salvador Allende was just another of the many victims of the many coups on democracy carried out by the United States (Note the date: 9/11/73)

Chile was another country brutally exploited by US corporations. US President Richard Nixon and Secretary of State Henry Kissinger made sure the people lived in utter misery. The CIA used different tactics but the results were the same. The agency led a smear campaign against the government of Chile, as it is currently doing in Brazil and Venezuela. They used national and international media to demonize President Salvador Allende. They made sure people who had once been loyal to him because of his benevolent way of governing turned on him.

How you ask? The same way they’re doing it in Venezuela. By causing scarcity through extortion, through torture, imprisonment, enforced disappearances and by assassinating all those who refuse to bow to them. Washington was irritated beyond control after Allende nationalized natural resources, threatening the wealthy Chilean copper mining corporations. He made sure his people had access to housing and education. When Allende’s popularity was successfully undermined, the next step was to plan a coup against him. It would now be easy. And on September 11, 1973, Gen. Augusto Pinochet led the military to the presidential palace with the backing of the CIA, who provided him with the necessary weapons and armored vehicles.

War planes dropped bombs on the palace. Before he died, Allende told his people: “I tell you with certainty that that which we have planted in the good conscience of thousands and thousands of Chileans will not be shriveled forever. They are strong and they may be able to dominate us, but the social processes cannot be halted.”

Pinochet ruled for 17 years. He jailed 80,000 people, tortured 30,000 and murdered 3,200.

7) 1976 – Argentina

Argentina endured arguably the bloodiest dictatorship of South America. Concentration camps, torture centers, massacres, massive rape of women and children, the beating of pregnant women, and the execution of boys and girls. In total, 30,000 people were executed. Behind it all: the CIA.

In 1973, Argentina was going through a political crisis so grave that President Juan Peron collapsed and died of a heart attack in 1974. His wife, Eva Peron, took power only to confront conflicts everywhere, even within her own Peronist party.

The CIA waited like a cat hunting its prey until 1976, when the situation they themselves provoked would be a walk in the park. The CIA approved of another right-wing military dictator-to-be, Gen. Jorge Rafael Videla, and the next step was a coup d’etat in the service of the United States.

This time US President Richard Nixon’s nefarious Henry Kissinger would be in charge of supervising the brutal regime and genocide, massive human rights violations, enforced disappearances, child theft, among other heinous crimes followed according to plan.

8) 1980 – El Salvador

Salvadoran Archbishop Oscar Romero broke with Catholic tradition by caring for the poor. He paid for it with his life.

The people of El Salvador suffered no less than Argentina under the US intervention that was carried out by the CIA. Washington had already backed a brutal Salvadoran dictatorship that lasted 50 years from 1931 to 1981. Campesinos and the indigenous people were smashed without mercy. More than 40,000 were massacred.

Liberation theologians coming out of the Catholic tradition tried to intervene in favor of the poor and oppressed. At this point in time, El Salvador was controlled by 13 mafia-style families who had expropriated about half of the national land and wealth. The 13 families were closely linked to Washington. And the CIA under US President Jimmy Carter and later, US President Ronald Reagan made sure the Salvadoran militia (and terrorist paramilitary goon squads) were very well trained in torture and equipped with enough lethal weapons to fully repress the poor and landless.
And when the CIA found out that Jesuit priests were helping out the masses, they made sure they were killed as well. The CIA asked Pope John Paul II to speak to Archbishop Óscar Romero to try to persuade him to desist with the peasant revolts. Romero refused to comply and so they murdered him while he was officiating mass in 1980. When the US intervention was over, 75,000 people had been murdered.

9) 1989 – Panama

CIA asset (for 30 years)and Washington-backed drug trafficker General Manuel Noriega (aka, “Pineapple Face” Noriega) was allowed to take power in Panama in 1983 after President Omar Torrijos was assassinated by a CIA plot. Torrijos’ capital crime was trying to take over control of the Panama Canal.

Later, when Noriega refused to obey US orders, an invasion, code-named “Operation Just Cause” was ordered by US President George H. W. Bush. The December 1989 invasion by US troops murdered 3,500 innocent Panamanians and displaced 20,000 more.

Noriega had been instrumental in the Iran-Contra affair that should have resulted in the resignation of US President Ronald Reagan because his CIA had circumvented Congress’ prohibition against providing the Nicaraguan contras with weapons that were to be used against the leftist Sandinista movement.

Noriega had helped the CIA obtain cocaine that was sent mainly to Los Angeles, where it was sold in the form of crack and served to poison vast Black communities, another of the devious objectives of the CIA. The money was used to buy arms in Iran. Noriega knew where too many bodies were buried and he had to be stopped.

Noriega was captured and he has been locked up – incognito – in a Miami jail ever since.

10) 1990 – Peru

Finally, we arrive at Peru and US President George H. W. Bush’s CIA.

In Peru, Alberto Fujimori was elected president in 1990. The reason why his election is highly suspicious is because he was a mediocre person with no political influence and no charisma. But he was a CIA asset.

Fujimori appointed a fellow CIA asset, a lawyer named Vladimiro Montesinos to be his National Intelligence Service director. He created a paramilitary group to threaten, harass and “disappear” leftist and Marxist leaders.

Fujimori dissolved Congress and locked up all the members of the Supreme Court of Justice. The CIA helped him with his plan. They financed him and supervised all his atrocities. Today, Fujimori is in jail. He may know where some bodies are buried as well.

First we need to understand that the CIA continues to raise havoc across Latin America and, indeed, the rest of the world. However, these 10 cases may enlighten those who refuse to believe that the US is responsible for death and destruction across the globe. It also serves to show how they operate and can be easily detected in places wherever there is instability, hunger and chaos.

Instability, hunger and chaos is their specialty.

Ed. note: The 10 sovereign Latin American nations that were discussed in some detail above were just the “Ten Most Lethal” CIA-led coups. The article did not discuss the following 13 militarily-invaded Latin American nations of Mexico, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Colombia, Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Ecuador, Venezuela, Surinam, Paraguay, Puerto Rico and Grenada. – GGK

[Swordsmyth]

YOU believe that government should take care of a problem made by government.

Not gonna happen- will only make us less free- which seems to be your desire.

This isn't a problem made by government, we would have this problem if we were libertarian and noninterventionist.

This is a foreign threat and therefore a legitimate use of government.

[PierzStyx]

You have never had a right to travel freely. If you happen to have permission to visit S Korea and stray across the border, the North Koreans will arrest you and beat you and starve you. To death. Even if you get lost and you stray across the border, the Mexicans will arrest you and hold you in jail for 214 days. If you are a Christian pastor and go to live peacefully in Turkey, you can be arrested and held for trial on charges based on nothing.

Try any legimate means of crossing our border. If you don’t have the documentation, consider yourself a prisoner.

Wow. The totalitarian Communist dictatorship of North Korea is your example to follow. Thank you for demonstrating how all you people really are just violent Socialist thugs deep down.

[PierzStyx]

This isn't a problem made by government, we would have this problem if we were libertarian and noninterventionist.

This is a foreign threat and therefore a legitimate use of government.

If we were libertarian and non-interventionist it wouldn't be a problem. Only Fascists see the free exchange of goods and services as a threat and capitalism as their enemy.

[PierzStyx]

You don't have a right to travel freely. The "No Trespassing" signs along my fence are pretty absolute.

You have every right to freely travel across land not privately owned by any private group or individual. This is the same right that allows you to do such marvelous things as drive down the street, walk along the sidewalk, and go anywhere other than the property you live upon. An dthis si a right all people have.

But it isn't like you believe in property rights. You're threatening to beat, cage, and kill people for standing on land you don't own. This is base tyranny as you assert violent power over something you do not own. Like all Socialists and Fascists you want the centralized state to assert a violent monopoly control over all territory which results in the complete negation of all private property in the name of "the people."

Typical Progressive garbage.

[Ender]

This isn't a problem made by government, we would have this problem if we were libertarian and noninterventionist.

This is a foreign threat and therefore a legitimate use of government.

Free trade & no entitlements. Bang- your "problem" would not exist.

[Swordsmyth]

If we were libertarian and non-interventionist it wouldn't be a problem. Only Fascists see the free exchange of goods and services as a threat and capitalism as their enemy.

Free trade & no entitlements. Bang- your "problem" would not exist.

We would be wealthy and they would still be poor socialists, they would invade for the wealth and turn us into a socialist hellhole like the ones they left.

We have a right to prevent that.

[PierzStyx]

Ender believes we deserve to be invaded with a religious fervor, nothing will change his mind, even if invaders kill him for his skin color should we fail to keep them out he will leave this world with his last words being "we deserved it".

Anyone who sees migration as invasion needs to go back to grammar school. They have as poor an understanding of English as immigrant Hondurans do.

Either that or they're just another example of Orwellian doublespeak where state sponsor thugs corrupt language in order to justify the ascertain of violent state power over human beings. That would also be a tactic I would expect from a paid troll such as you.

[Swordsmyth]

You have every right to freely travel across land not privately owned by any private group or individual. This is the same right that allows you to do such marvelous things as drive down the street, walk along the sidewalk, and go anywhere other than the property you live upon. An dthis si a right all people have.

But it isn't like you believe in property rights. You're threatening to beat, cage, and kill people for standing on land you don't own. This is base tyranny as you assert violent power over something you do not own. Like all Socialists and Fascists you want the centralized state to assert a violent monopoly control over all territory which results in the complete negation of all private property in the name of "the people."

Typical Progressive garbage.

We have a right our own territory where we run things differently than their socialist hellholes, we have a right to keep them out of our territory in order to continue running things our way.

[PierzStyx]

We would be wealthy and they would still be poor socialists, they would invade for the wealth and turn us into a socialist hellhole like the ones they left.

We have a right to prevent that.

Moving to another country and working for profit to better their financial situation while also producing low cost and high quality items to be sold on the market is socialist to you?

Man, you're an idiot.

That you want to prevent what is so obviously capitalism just demonstrates you're the real Socialist.

And unlike your mythical evil socialists you're very real and you very much want to beat, cage, and kill innocent people engaging in free market activities.

[Swordsmyth]

Anyone who sees migration as invasion needs to go back to grammar school. They have as poor an understanding of English as immigrant Hondurans do.

Either that or they're just another example of Orwellian doublespeak where state sponsor thugs corrupt language in order to justify the ascertain of violent state power over human beings. That would also be a tactic I would expect from a paid troll such as you.

Migration in violation of our rules is invasion, ancient tribes invaded one another's territory in exactly that way, the differentiation between migration and invasion is a modern one that presupposes that immigrants follow the rules and do not exceed the limits set by the natives.

[Swordsmyth]

Moving to another country and working for profit to better their financial situation while also producing low cost and high quality items to be sold on the market is socialist to you?

Man, you're an idiot.

That you want to prevent what is so obviously capitalism just demonstrates you're the real Socialist.

And unlike your mythical evil socialists you're very real and you very much want to beat, cage, and kill innocent people engaging in free market activities.

They come here and get on welfare and vote for those who will give them more welfare, THAT IS SOCIALIST.

[PierzStyx]

We have a right our own territory where we run things differently than their socialist hellholes, we have a right to keep them out of our territory in order to continue running things our way.

The United States isn't "our" territory. You do not own it. Therefore it is not yours.

That said, your claim to own all property as one great collective "ours" that you want to administer through the violence of a centralized state to prevent people from engaging in peaceful free market exchanges of goods and services does prove that you believe in Socialism, specifically National Socialism as your Marxist collectivism is focused on the nation.

So there is a threat from socialists turning America into a socialist hellhole. That threat is from you. Not immigrant Hondurans looking to engage peacefully in free market exchanges of goods and services.

[Ender]

Some things never change.

The refugees seeking haven in America were poor and disease-ridden. They threatened to take jobs away from Americans and strain welfare budgets. They practiced an alien religion and pledged allegiance to a foreign leader. They were bringing with them crime. They were accused of being rapists. And, worst of all, these undesirables were Irish.

[Swordsmyth]

Anarchist drivel

The world has never run that way and never will, I and my fellow Americans a have a self defense right to join in group ownership of our territory to protect ourselves from foreigners who would violate our rights, we DO own America.

[Swordsmyth]

Some things never change.

The anti-Irish movement has been exaggerated but it doesn't matter, excessive immigration at that time did irreparable harm to America's politics, it set us on the path to socialism a few steps behind the European countries that the new-comers left behind.

[PierzStyx]

They come here and get on welfare and vote for those who will give them more welfare, THAT IS SOCIALIST.

Same boring lies being spread by the same stupid troll.

The notion that immigrants come to the United States to access public programs has become something of a popular myth.

Low-income immigrants are less likely to access public benefits than their native-born counterparts.

The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 (PRWORA), better known as welfare reform, introduced a five-year ban on lawful immigrants using public benefits with very few exceptions, like refugees and asylees. This helps ensure new immigrants are net fiscal contributors to the US Treasury — a fact which empirical studies consistently confirm. Undocumented immigrants are ineligible for public benefits.

https://fee.org/articles/welfare-dep...ts-are-a-myth/

Further, mass immigration actually DESTROYS the welfare state.

That evidence overwhelmingly shows that ethnic heterogeneity greatly reduces support for welfare state spending because voters are less willing to support welfare programs if they believe that a large percentage of the money is going to members of a different racial or ethnic group.

I cite some of the relevant studies in a recent article in the International Affairs Forum on Immigration (pg. 43). The research shows that this effect holds true even in a strongly left-wing country like Sweden. This book by political scientists Donald Kinder and Cindy Kam presents the evidence for the United States (and to a lesser extent, several European countries). Historically, the greater ethnic diversity of the US is one of the main reasons why we have a smaller welfare state than most European nations; the evidence on that point is summarized in a well-known study by Edward Glaeser and Alberto Alesina. Because people are most likely to support welfare programs when the money goes to recipients who are “like us,” immigration actually undermines the welfare state rather than reinforces it. Even if the new immigrants themselves vote for expanded welfare state benefits (which is far from always a given), their political impact is likely to be offset by that of native-born citizens who are generally wealthier, more numerous, and more likely to vote and otherwise participate in politics.

https://fee.org/articles/if-you-hate...e-immigration/

In this environment of political hysteria, in which the rankest form of racial fear has reared its head, few dare to stand up and call for the only liberty-minded answer: open borders.

Just the phrase causes people to sputter in shock. The objections start flying: wages will fall, welfare will explode, people will vote for the wrong people, there will be cultural confusion, the national language will evaporate, crime will soar — on and on the parade of horribles marches.

The more you look into the research, the more these objections fall away. Immigrants cause less crime than natives. Immigration does not cause unemployment. Immigrants don’t consume more public benefits than natives; in fact, they use fewer. Indeed, they have kept Social Security afloat, even though they will never get a dime from the system. They don’t love liberty less: they poll in as more libertarian. Indeed, every one of these and other claims in Trump’s immigration policy paper are patently wrong.

Apparently, the facts don’t matter. And as for humane values and human rights, forget it. Immigration restriction is a fundamental attack on the rights of at least two parties: the person who wants to employ someone currently outside the border and the person who wants to come work. It’s a thuggish interference with an economic exchange, like any other arbitrary restriction on trade.

So often, in many recent discussions I’ve had online, what’s going on here is just a shoot-from-hip bias. It’s exactly the same kind of fears that make people object to getting rid of the minimum wage, cutting taxes, eliminating tariffs, privatizing the TSA, eliminating zoning laws, cutting government spending, legalizing pot, and so on.

It’s freedom itself that people fear.

https://fee.org/articles/why-open-borders/

So yes, you're an idiot. You're here proposing that we respond to people coming to work in a capitalist market, to make money and create new products with violence and brutality, all base don your myths and lies. You hate the market economy and free exchanges within it. They aren't the socialists threatening America. You are.

And of course, even assuming you were right, your solution to potential welfare state expansion is the expansion of the American police state. In other words, you propose to counter Socialism with fascism. Great job Mussolini. That makes America sooooooooooooooo free.

[PierzStyx]

The world has never run that way and never will, I and my fellow Americans a have a self defense right to join in group ownership of our territory to protect ourselves from foreigners who would violate our rights, we DO own America.

Of course a cultural Marxist and Fascist finds basic libertarian and classical liberal thought to be "drivel."

Also, don't think no one didn't notice that you can't actually refute the claim that you are a National Socialist. You just tried to straw man your way out of it. Facts and logic are your enemy, so you have to appeal to emotionalism and avoid addressing the actual proof against you. Typical moronic Fascist.

Nevertheless, the truth is the truth: If you want to keep Hondurans off the land you privately and personally own, do so. If you and your idiot buddies want to keep Hondurans off land you privately and personally own, do so. But your claim to own and by "right" control all property as one great national collective "ours" that you want to administer through the violence of a centralized state to prevent people from engaging in peaceful free market exchanges of goods and services does prove that you believe in Socialism, specifically National Socialism as your Marxist collectivism is focused on the nation.

So there is a threat from socialists turning America into a socialist hellhole. That threat is from you. Not immigrant Hondurans looking to engage peacefully in free market exchanges of goods and services.

[Swordsmyth]

Same boring lies being spread by the same stupid troll.

Well summarized.

Why do the same people who tell me ending welfare would solve the illegal immigration problem tell me that the illegals don't use welfare?

Further, mass immigration actually DESTROYS the welfare state.

Along with everything else, I decline to live in a Balkanized war zone.

We don't need a fascist police state to control immigration and the border.

[Swordsmyth]

Of course a cultural Marxist and Fascist finds basic libertarian and classical liberal thought to be "drivel."

Also, don't think no one didn't notice that you can't actually refute the claim that you are a National Socialist. You just tried to straw man your way out of it. Facts and logic are your enemy, so you have to appeal to emotionalism and avoid addressing the actual proof against you. Typical moronic Fascist.

Nevertheless, the truth is the truth: If you want to keep Hondurans off the land you privately and personally own, do so. If you and your idiot buddies want to keep Hondurans off land you privately and personally own, do so. But your claim to own and by "right" control all property as one great national collective "ours" that you want to administer through the violence of a centralized state to prevent people from engaging in peaceful free market exchanges of goods and services does prove that you believe in Socialism, specifically National Socialism as your Marxist collectivism is focused on the nation.

So there is a threat from socialists turning America into a socialist hellhole. That threat is from you. Not immigrant Hondurans looking to engage peacefully in free market exchanges of goods and services.

LOL

[Zippyjuan]

Of course a cultural Marxist and Fascist finds basic libertarian and classical liberal thought to be "drivel."

Also, don't think no one didn't notice that you can't actually refute the claim that you are a National Socialist. You just tried to straw man your way out of it. Facts and logic are your enemy, so you have to appeal to emotionalism and avoid addressing the actual proof against you. Typical moronic Fascist.

Nevertheless, the truth is the truth: If you want to keep Hondurans off the land you privately and personally own, do so. If you and your idiot buddies want to keep Hondurans off land you privately and personally own, do so. But your claim to own and by "right" control all property as one great national collective "ours" that you want to administer through the violence of a centralized state to prevent people from engaging in peaceful free market exchanges of goods and services does prove that you believe in Socialism, specifically National Socialism as your Marxist collectivism is focused on the nation.

So there is a threat from socialists turning America into a socialist hellhole. That threat is from you. Not immigrant Hondurans looking to engage peacefully in free market exchanges of goods and services.

"But they are all socialist communist criminal rapists and killers! They want to take away everything I have!"

[Swordsmyth]

https://mises.org/blog/mises-nationa...em-immigration

03/28/2017Joseph T. Salerno

In the current discussion about immigration, Ludwig von Mises is often invoked by libertarians as a staunch proponent of free trade in the broad sense that pertains to the free movement of goods, capital, and labor. Mises has even been proclaimed by some libertarians as an advocate of open borders. However, Mises’s views on the free migration of labor across existing political borders were carefully nuanced and informed by political considerations based on his first-hand knowledge of the deep and abiding conflicts between nationalities in the polyglot states of Central and Eastern Europe leading up to World War One and during the subsequent interwar period. Thus Mises did not evaluate immigration in terms of purely economic optima such as maximizing the productivity of human labor, irrespective of the political context. Rather, he assessed the effects of immigration from the viewpoint of the classical liberal regime of private property. My purpose in this short essay is to set forth Mises’s views on immigration as he developed them as an integral part of the classical liberal program he elaborated. I shall not attempt to criticize or evaluate his views.
Liberal Nationalism

For Mises, liberalism first emerged and expressed itself in the nineteenth century as a political movement in the form of “peaceful nationalism.” Its two fundamental principles were freedom or, more concretely, “the right of self-determination of peoples” and national unity or the “nationality principle.” The two principles were indissolubly linked. The primary goal of the liberal nationalist movements (Italian, Polish, Greek, German, Serbian, etc.) was the liberation of their peoples from the despotic rule of kings and princes. Liberal revolution against despotism necessarily took on a nationalist character for two reasons. First, many of the royal despots were foreign, for example, the Austrian Hapsburgs and French Bourbons who ruled the Italians, and the Prussian king and Russian Czar who subjugated the Poles. Second, and more important, political realism dictated “the necessity of setting the alliance of the oppressed against the alliance of the oppressors in order to achieve freedom at all, but also the necessity of holding together in order to find in unity the strength to preserve freedom”. This alliance of the oppressed was founded on national unity based on a common language, culture, and modes of thinking and acting.
Even though forged in wars of liberation, liberal nationalism was for Mises both peaceful and cosmopolitan. Not only did the separate national liberation movements view each other as brothers in their common struggle against royal despotism, but they embraced the principles of economic liberalism, “which proclaims the solidarity of interests among all peoples.” Mises stresses the compatibility of nationalism, cosmopolitanism, and peace:

[T]he nationality principle includes only the rejection of every overlordship; it demands self-determination, autonomy. Then, however, its content expands; not only freedom but also unity is the watchword. But the desire for national unity, too, is above all thoroughly peaceful. . . . [N]ationalism does not clash with cosmopolitanism, for the unified nation does not want discord with neighboring peoples, but peace and friendship.1

As a classical liberal, Mises is careful to specify that the right of self-determination is not a collective right but an individual right: “It is not the right of self determination of a delimited national unit, but rather the right of the inhabitants of every territory to decide on the state to which they wish to belong.” Mises makes it crystal clear that self-determination is an individual right that would have to be granted to “every individual person . . . if it were in any way possible.” It should also be noted in this respect that Mises rarely speaks of the “right of secession,” perhaps because of its historical connotation of the right of a government of a subordinate political unit to withdraw from a superior one.
While championing of self-determination as an individual right, Mises argues that the nation has a fundamental and relatively permanent being independent of the transient state (or states) which may govern it at any given time. Thus he refers to the nation as “an organic entity [which] can be neither increased nor reduced by changes in states.” Accordingly, Mises characterizes a man’s “compatriots” as “those of his fellow men with whom he shares a common land and language and with whom he often forms an ethnic and spiritual community as well.” In the same vein, Mises cites the German author J. Grimm, who refers to the “natural law . . . that not rivers and not mountains form the boundary lines of peoples and that for a people that has moved over mountains and rivers, its own language alone can set the boundary.” The nationality principle therefore implies that liberal nation-states may comprise a monoglot people inhabiting geographically non-contiguous regions, provinces and even villages. Mises contends that nationalism is thus a natural outcome of and in complete harmony with individual rights: “The formation of [liberal democratic] states comprising all the members of a national group was the result of the exercise of the right of self determination, not its purpose.”2
It should be noted here that, in contrast to many modern libertarians who view individuals as atomistic beings who lack emotional affinities and spiritual bonds with selected fellow humans, Mises affirms the reality of the nation as “an organic entity.” For Mises the nation comprises humans who perceive and act toward one another in a way that separates them from other groups of people based on the meaning and significance the compatriots attach to objective factors such as shared language, traditions, ancestry and so on. Membership in a nation, no less than in a family, involves concrete acts of volition based on subjective perceptions and preferences with respect to a complex of objective historical circumstances. According to Murray Rothbard, who shares Mises’s view of the reality of the nation separate from the state apparatus:

Contemporary libertarians often assume, mistakenly, that individuals are bound to each other only by the nexus of market exchange. They forget that everyone is necessarily born into a family, a language, and a culture. Every person is born into one of several overlapping communities, usually including an ethnic group, with specific values, cultures, religious beliefs, and traditions. . . . The ‘nation’ cannot be precisely defined; it is a complex and varying constellation of different forms of communities, languages, ethnic groups or religions. . . . The question of nationality is made more complex by the interplay of objectively existing reality and subjective perceptions.

Colonialism as the Denial of the Right of Self-Determination

Unlike many late 19^th- and early 20^th-century liberals, Mises was a passionate anti-colonialist. As a radical liberal, he recognized the universality of the right of self determination and the nationality principle for all peoples and races. He wrote powerful and scathing indictments against the European subjugation and mistreatment of African and Asian peoples and demanded a quick and complete dismantling of colonial regimes. It is worthwhile quoting Mises on this at length:

The basic idea of colonial policy was to take advantage of the military superiority of the white race over the members of other races. The Europeans set out, equipped with all the weapons and contrivances that their civilization placed at their disposal, to subjugate weaker peoples, to rob them of their property, and to enslave them. Attempts have been made to extenuate and gloss over the true motive of colonial policy with the excuse that its sole object was to make it possible for primitive peoples to share in the blessings of European civilization. . . . Could there be a more doleful proof of the sterility of European civilization than that it can be spread by no other means than fire and sword?

No chapter of history is steeped further in blood than the history of colonialism. Blood was shed uselessly and senselessly. Flourishing lands were laid waste; whole peoples destroyed and exterminated. All this can in no way be extenuated or justified. The dominion of Europeans in Africa and in important parts of Asia is absolute. It stands in the sharpest contrast to all the principles of liberalism and democracy, and there can be no doubt that we must strive for its abolition. . . . European conquerors . . . have brought arms and engines of destruction of all kinds to the colonies; they have sent out their worst and most brutal individuals as officials and officers; at the point of the sword they have set up a colonial rule that in its sanguinary cruelty rivals the despotic system of the Bolsheviks. Europeans must not be surprised if the bad example that they themselves have set in their colonies now bears evil fruit. In any case, they have no right to complain pharisaically about the low state of public morals among the natives. Nor would they be justified in maintaining that the natives are not yet mature enough for freedom and that they still need at least several years of further education under the lash of foreign rulers before they are capable of being, left on their own.
In those areas where native peoples were strong enough to mount armed resistance to colonial despotism, Mises enthusiastically supported and cheered on these national liberation movements: “In Abyssinia, in Mexico, in the Caucasus, in Persia, in China—everywhere we see the imperialist aggressors in retreat, or at least already in great difficulties.”
To completely phase out colonialism, Mises proposed the establishment of a temporary protectorate under the aegis of the League of Nations. But he made it clear that such an arrangement was “to be viewed only as a transitional stage” and that the ultimate goal must be “the complete liberation of the colonies from the despotic rule under which they live.” Mises based his demand for the recognition of the right of self-determination and respect for the nationality principle among colonized peoples on the bedrock of individual rights:

No one has a right to thrust himself into the affairs of others in order to further their interest, and no one ought, when he has his own interests in view, to pretend that he is acting selflessly only in the interest of others.

The Breakdown of Liberal Nationalism: Majority Rule and Nationality Conflicts

This bring us to Mises’s key insight into the irreconcilable “conflict of nationalities” bred by majority rule—even under liberal democratic constitutions. As a keen observer of the pre- and post Great War polyglot states of Central and Eastern Europe, Mises noted that “national struggles can only arise on the soil of freedom.” Thus as prewar Austria approached freedom, “the violence of the struggle between the nationalities grew.” With the collapse of the old royalist state, these struggles were “carried on only more bitterly in the new states, where ruling majorities confront national minorities without the mediation of the authoritarian state, which softens much harshness.” Mises attributes such a counterintuitive outcome to the fact that the nationality principle was not respected in the creation of the new states. Mises’s point is illustrated in the modern ethnic conflicts that erupted in the wake of the collapse of Communism and the breakup of the Soviet Union and of Yugoslavia.3
Mises maintains that two or more “nations” cannot peacefully coexist under a unitary democratic government. National minorities in a democracy are “completely politically powerless” because they have no chance of peacefully influencing the majority linguistic group. The latter represents “a cultural circle that is closed” to minority nationalities and whose political ideas are “thought, spoken, and written in a language that they do not understand.” Even where proportional representation prevails, the national minority “still remains excluded from collaboration in political life.” According to Mises, because the minority has no prospect of one day attaining power, the activity of its representatives “remains limited from the beginning to fruitless criticism . . . that . . . can lead to no political goal.” Thus, concludes Mises, even if the member of the minority nation, “according to the letter of the law, be a citizen with full rights . . . in truth he is politically without rights, a second class citizen, a pariah.”
Mises characterizes majority rule as a form of colonialism from the point of view of the minority nation in a polyglot territory: “[It] signifies something quite different here than in nationally uniform territories; here, for a part of the people, it is not popular rule but foreign rule.” Peaceful liberal nationalism therefore is inevitably stifled in polyglot territories governed by a unitary state, because, Mises argues, “democracy seems like oppression to the minority. Where only the choice is open oneself to suppress or be suppressed, one easily decides for the former.” Thus, for Mises, democracy means the same thing for the minority as “subjugation under the rule of others,” and this “holds true everywhere and, so far, for all times.” Mises dismisses “the often cited” counter-example of Switzerland as irrelevant because local self-rule was not disturbed by “internal migrations” between the different nationalities. Had significant migration established the presence of substantial national minorities in some of the cantons, “the national peace of Switzerland would already have vanished long ago.”
With respect to regions inhabited by different nationalities, Mises therefore concludes, “the right of self-determination works to the advantage only of those who comprise the majority.” This is especially true, for example, in interventionist states where education is compulsory and “peoples speaking different languages live together side by side and intermingled in polyglot confusion.” Under these conditions, formal schooling is a source of “spiritual coercion” and “one means of oppressing nationalities.” The very choice of the language of instruction can “alienate children from the nationality to which their parents belong” and “over the years, determine the nationality of a whole area.” The school thus becomes the source of irreconcilable national conflict and “a political prize of highest importance.” With respect to the debate over compulsory education, Mises emphasizes, the only effective solution is to depoliticize schooling by abolishing both compulsory education laws and political involvement with schools, leaving the education of children “entirely to parents and to private associations and institutions.”
Compulsory education is only an extreme example of how interventionism exacerbates the inevitable conflict between different nationalities that are living together under the jurisdiction of a single state. In such a situation, Mises argues: “Every interference on the part of government in economic life can become a means of persecuting the members of nationalities speaking a language different from that of the ruling group.” Perhaps Mises’s most important insight, however, is that even under a laissez-faire system, where government is rigorously restricted to “protecting and preserving the life, liberty, property and health of the individual citizen,” the political arena will still degenerate into a battleground between disparate nationalities residing within its geographical jurisdiction. Even the routine activities of the police and judicial system in this ideal liberal regime “can become dangerous in areas where any basis at all can be found for discriminating between one group and another in the conduct of official business.”4 This is especially true in states where “differences of religion, nationality, or the like have divided the population into groups separated by a gulf so deep as to exclude every impulse of fairness or humanity and to leave room for nothing but hate.” Mises gives the example of a judge “who acts consciously, or still more often unconsciously, in a biased manner” because he believes “he is fulfilling a higher duty when he makes use of the powers and prerogatives of his office in the service of his own group.”
Not only is the member of a national minority subjected to ingrained and routine bias in the political sphere, he is unable to grasp the thought and ideology that shape political affairs. His social and political worldview as well as his cultural and religious attitudes reflect ideas formulated and discussed in the national literature of a foreign language, and these ideas diverge, possibly radically, from those of the majority linguistic group. According to Mises even though political and cultural ideas are transmitted and shared among all nations, “every nation develops currents of ideas in its own special way and assimilates them differently. In every people they encounter another national character and another constellation of conditions.” Mises gives the example of how the political ideal of socialism differed between Germany and France, and between the latter two and Russia.
The result of this natural “nationalizing” and differentiating of even similar ideas and intellectual trends is that the member of the minority nation confronts a linguistic and intellectual barrier that prevents him from meaningfully participating in the political discussion that shapes the laws under which he lives. Explains Mises:

Cast into the form of statute law, the outcome of [the majority’s] political discussions acquires direct significance for the citizen who speaks a foreign tongue, since he must obey the law; yet he has the feeling that he is excluded from effective participation in shaping the will of the legislative authority or at least that he is not allowed to cooperate in shaping it to the same extent as those whose native tongue is that of the ruling majority. And when he appears before a magistrate or any administrative official as a party to a suit or petition, he stands before men whose political thought is foreign to him because it developed under different ideological influences. . . . At every turn the member of a national minority is made to feel that he lives among strangers and that he is, even if the letter of the law denies it, a second-class citizen.

The result of the political impotence of the national minority in a majoritarian democracy is that it perceives itself to be a conquered or colonized people. For as Mises points out: “The situation of having to belong to a state to which one does not wish to belong is no less onerous if it is the result of an election than if one must endure it as the consequence of a military conquest. . . .” In the 1920s Mises had already identified the phenomenon of what today is misleadingly called “institutional racism”— because the problem lies not with all institutions, only political ones — but is better described as “democratic subjugation.” In the1960s, Malcolm X (1963) gave poignant expression to the yearning for self-determination on the part of minority African nationalities in the U.S., saddled with an interventionist state controlled by peoples of European extraction:

This new type of black man, he doesn't want integration; he wants separation. Not segregation, separation. To him, segregation . . . means that which is forced upon inferiors by superiors. . . . In the white community, the white man controls the economy, his own economy, his own politics, his own everything. That's his community. But at the same time while the Negro lives in a separate community, it's a segregated community. Which means it's regulated from the outside by outsiders. The white man has all of the businesses in the Negro community. He runs the politics of the Negro community. He controls all the civic organizations in the Negro community. This is a segregated community. . . . We don't go for segregation. We go for separation. Separation is when you have your own. You control your own economy; you control your own politics; you control your own society; you control your own everything. You have yours and you control yours; we have ours and we control ours.

In analyzing the causes and solution of nationality conflicts, Mises coined the terms “militant” or “aggressive” nationalism, which he contrasted with “liberal” or “peaceful” nationalism. Thus for Mises, the choice was never between nationalism and a bland, atomistic “globalism”; the real choice was either nationalism that was cosmopolitan and embraced universal individual rights and free trade or militant nationalism intent on subjugating and oppressing other nations. He attributed the rise of anti-liberal nationalism to the failure to apply the right of self-determination and the nationality principle consistently and to the utmost degree possible in the formation of new political entities in the wake of the overthrow of royal despotism by war or revolution. The consequence was peoples differentiated by language, heritage, religion, etc. artificially and involuntarily bound together by arbitrary political ties. The inevitable outcome of these polyglot, mixed-nation-states was the suppression of minorities by the majority nationality, a bitter struggle for control of the state apparatus, and the creation of mutual and deep-seated distrust and hatred.5 This state of affairs often culminated in state-sanctioned physical violence, including the expropriation and expulsion and even the murder of minority populations.
Freedom of Movement Versus the Right of Self-Determination of Peoples

Mises argues that all of this could have been avoided if only the full liberal agenda which includes, in addition to an economic policy of domestic laissez-faire and international free trade in goods, the crucial right of self-determination and the nationality principle to which it gives rise. Mises does not mince words in describing the plight of minorities in an illiberal, interventionist system:

If the government of these territories [inhabited by members of several nationalities] is not conducted along completely liberal lines, there can be no question of even an approach to equal rights in the treatment of the members of the various national groups. There can then be only rulers and those ruled. The only choice is whether one will be hammer or anvil.

Mises goes further, however, and argues that even an end to interventionism will not resolve the conflict of nationalities. Almost alone among classical liberals of his era and modern libertarians, Mises clearly recognizes that laissez-faire capitalism and free trade are necessary but not sufficient to ensure peace among different groups of individuals forced to live under a unified political system who voluntarily and naturally self-identify as different peoples or nations on the basis of language, shared customs and traditions, religion, heritage or any other objective factor that is subjectively meaningful for them. As Mises states

All these disadvantages [experienced by minorities] are felt to be very oppressive even in a state with a liberal constitution in which the activity of the government is restricted to the protection of the life and property of the citizens. But they become quite intolerable in an interventionist or socialist state.

For Mises the best that can be said of a government whose functions are strictly limited to protection of person and property and enforcement of contract is that it does not “aggravate artificially the friction that must arise from this living together of different groups.”
Mises defends the complete liberal agenda—the laissez-faire and the nationality principles—against those who vacuously attribute the “violent antagonisms” between nations inhabiting a single political jurisdiction to an “innate antipathy” between different peoples. To the contrary, argues Mises, despite the hatreds that may naturally exist between various groups of people of the same nationality, they are able to get along peacefully when living under the jurisdiction of the same state, while different nationalities that are forcibly bound together under common political arrangements are in constant conflict:

The Bavarian hates the Prussian; the Prussian, the Bavarian. No less fierce is the hatred existing among individual groups within both France and Poland. Nevertheless, Germans, Poles, and Frenchmen manage to live peacefully within their own countries. What gives the antipathy of the Pole for the German and of the German for the Pole a special political significance is the aspiration of each of the two peoples to seize for itself political control of the border areas in which Germans and Poles live side by side and to use it to oppress the members of the other nationality. What has kindled the hatred between nations to a consuming fire is the fact that people want to use the schools to estrange children from the language of their fathers and to make use of the courts and administrative offices, political and economic measures, and outright expropriation to persecute those speaking a foreign tongue.

So it is not natural antipathies between peoples—which may or may not exist—but the political denial of the right of self-determination that is the underlying cause of national conflicts. In this vein, Mises issues a dire and, in hindsight, prescient warning: “As long as the liberal program is not completely carried out in the territories of mixed nationality, hatred between members of different nations must become ever fiercer and continue to ignite new wars and rebellions.” This is certainly true of today’s world, particularly in Asia and Africa, where European imperialists and colonialists dragooned different “nations” (tribes, chiefdoms, linguistic groups, ethnicities, religions) into deeply dysfunctional political unions. Most of the forty wars currently being waged on these continents are “intrastate” or civil wars and, of these, most are “fueled as much by racial, ethnic, or religious animosities as by ideological fervor.” At their root lie the attempts of minority groups to resist or end oppression by the majority by either seizing the existing state apparatus, seceding from the state, or creating an entirely new state, e.g., ISIL.
This brings us to the vexed question of immigration. Mises summarily dismisses the purely economic arguments against free immigration as fallacious. He points out that, from the global point of view, migration raises the productivity of human labor, the supply of goods, and standards of living because it facilitates the reallocation of labor (and capital) from regions with less advantageous natural conditions of production to those with more advantageous natural conditions. Barriers to labor migration therefore cause a misallocation of labor and its geographic mal-distribution, with a relative oversupply in some areas and undersupply in other areas. The effects of migration barriers are thus exactly the same as the effects of tariffs and other barriers to the international trade of goods: the reduction of productive efficiency and income because comparatively unfavorable opportunities for production are exploited in some regions while comparatively favorable opportunities remain unutilized in others.
Although Mises argues that free movement of goods, capital and labor tends to maximize the productivity of labor and the total output of goods and services, he does not envision this as the ultimate goal of liberalism. As Mises argues in another connection, it was a mistake to believe “that the essence of liberal programs was not private property but ‘free competition’ [i.e., free of the ‘economic power’ of large business enterprises].” The same also applies when evaluating the social desirability of labor migration: the welfare standard for Mises and classical liberals is not the “economistic,” Chicago-school goals of production efficiency or maximum labor productivity measured in pecuniary terms but the securing of a full private property regime. For it is the operation of the unhampered market based on private property that best satisfies consumer preferences for exchangeable and non-exchangeable goods, which is the ultimate goal of all economic activity. In his brilliant but neglected analysis of the labor market in his economic treatise, Human Action, Mises points out that even the completely unhampered migration of labor across political boundaries does not lead to maximum labor productivity and a distribution of labor that equalizes wage rates for the same kind and quality of labor services throughout the global economy. The reason?

The worker and the consumer are the same person. . . . Men cannot sever their decisions concerning the utilization of their working power from those concerning the enjoyment of their earnings. Descent, language, education, religion, mentality, family bonds, and social environment tie the worker in such a way that he does not choose the place and the branch of his work merely with regard to the height of wage rates. [Paragraph break suppressed.]

In discussing labor migration Mises therefore shifts the focus from the analytical abstraction of the “laborer” seeking the highest wages consonant with his leisure preferences to the real human actor who demonstrates preferences across a broad range of goals that include non-exchangeable goods like close proximity and association with members of the same family, religious affiliation, ethnicity or language group. Consequently, Mises explicitly recognizes that once the outdated assumptions underlying the free-trade doctrine advanced by Ricardo and the classical economists are dropped, and the international mobility of capital and labor as well as goods is considered, the case for free trade, while it remains valid “from the purely economic point of view . . presents a quite changed point of departure for testing the extraeconomic reasons for and against the protective system.” Mises thus takes the analysis of migration beyond the realm of narrowly economic considerations and brings it into contact with the concrete political reality of the democratic mixed-nation-state and its characteristic suppression and violation of the property rights of national minorities by the majority nation.
This analysis leads Mises to view mass “immigration,” that is, labor migration across state borders, even when it occurs for purely economic reasons, as posing an inherent problem. Mises maintains that the creation of mixed-nation-states resulting from the immigration of workers of a foreign nationality, “gives rise once again to all those conflicts that generally develop in polyglot territories” and “to particularly characteristic conflicts between peoples.” Mises does recognize that peaceful cultural and political assimilation can take place “if the immigrants come not all at once but little by little, so that the assimilation process among the early immigrants is already completed or at least already under way when the newcomers arrive.” He cites the example of Chinese immigration to the United States in the nineteenth century, which did occur in a manner amenable to assimilation. Mises remarks, however, that “perhaps” the Chinese would have “achieve[d] domination in their new home . . . in the western states of the Union if legislation had not restricted their immigration in time.” But this is strictly a positive statement and Mises draws no policy implications from it.
Indeed, Mises exposes the economic arguments to restrict immigration put forward by protectionist trade unions in relatively high-wage countries like the U.S and Australia as transparently self-serving and injurious to the economic interests of their fellow nationals as well as contrary to the teachings of sound economic theory. Mises takes a more measured tone when considering the extra-economic argument in favor of immigration restriction that is disingenuously resorted to by the protectionists as a fallback position. According to the latter argument, in the absence of immigration barriers “hordes of immigrants” of non-English-speaking European and Asian nationalities would “inundate Australia and America.” Because these immigrants would arrive rapidly and in great numbers, the argument asserts, they could not be assimilated and Anglo-Saxons in the host countries would find themselves in a minority and their “exclusive dominion . . . would be destroyed.”
In evaluating this argument, Mises emphasizes the political problems that would arise in a mixed-nation-state created overnight by mass immigration:

These fears may perhaps be exaggerated with regard to the United States. As regards Australia, they certainly are not. . . . If Australia is thrown open to immigration, it can be assumed with great probability that its population would in a few years consist of Japanese, Chinese and Malayans. . . . The entire nation [not just workers] is unanimous, however, in fearing inundation by foreigners. The present inhabitants of those favored lands [the U.S. and Australia] fear that some day they could be reduced to a minority in their own country and that they would then have to suffer all horrors of national persecution to which, for instance, the Germans today [1927] are exposed in Czechoslovakia, Italy, and Poland.

While Mises does not take an explicit position on the desirability of a policy curbing massive immigration flows that are induced by economic opportunity, he acknowledges that “these fears” of the nationality inhabiting the receiving country “are justified,” especially in a world of interventionist states. Mises, who for many years observed first-hand the egregious maltreatment of national minorities in Central and Eastern Europe, vividly expresses the basis of the majority nation’s fear of being transformed into a national minority:

As long as the state is granted the vast powers which it has today and which public opinion considers to be its right, the thought of having to live in a state whose government is in the hands of members of a foreign nationality is positively terrifying. It is frightful to live in a state in which at every turn one is exposed to persecution—masquerading under the guise of justice—by a ruling majority. It is dreadful to be handicapped even as a child in school on account of one’s nationality and to be in the wrong before every judicial and administrative authority because one belongs to a national minority.

Thus, Mises views immigration as always and everywhere a “problem” to which there is “no solution,” as long as interventionist political regimes are the norm. Only when the crossing of state borders by members of a different nation portend no political dangers for the indigenous nationality will the “problem of immigration” disappear and be replaced by the benign migration of labor that creates unalloyed and mutual economic advantages for all individuals and peoples. From the Mises’s perspective, then, the solution to the immigration problem is not to legislate some vague, ad hoc right to the “freedom of movement” between existing fixed-boundary states. Rather, it is to complete the laissez-faire liberal revolution and secure private property rights by providing for the continual redrawing of state boundaries in accordance with the right of self-determination and the nationality principle. Then — and only then — can the continual and wealth-creating reallocation of labor throughout the world required by a dynamic capitalist economy be peacefully accommodated without precipitating political conflict.
Conclusion

Mises was a radical liberal nationalist and cosmopolitan whose overarching goal was to promote policies that facilitated the peaceful extension of the social division of labor founded on private property to all individuals and nations. He acknowledged the reality of separate nations and its meaningfulness for political and economic policy analysis. He recognized that political borders that were not formed according to the nationality principle were an insurmountable impediment to the fullest realization of the concept of free trade and an important source of national conflicts and protectionism that destroyed wealth. In particular, Mises realized that “immigration” was not the solution to the problem of the uneconomic spatial distribution of labor, but the very cause of the problem. The problem of immigration would be solved only with the consummation of the classical liberal revolution in the universal recognition of the right of self-determination. Then the problem—and the very phenomenon—of immigration would disappear, as the borders of states would move with the migration of peoples and nations.
Further Reading

Mises, Ludwig von. 1983. Nation, State, and Economy: Contributions to the Politics and History of Our Time. Trans. Leland B. Yeager. New York: New York University Press.
_____. 1985. Liberalism in the Classical Tradition. Trans. Ralph Raico. 3^rd ed. Irvington-on-Hudson, NY and San Fancisco: The Foundation for Economic Education, Inc. and Cobden Press (co-publishers)
_____. 1996. Critique of Interventionism. Trans. Hans F. Sennholz. 2^nd ed. Irvington-on-Hudson, NY: The Foundation for Economic Education, Inc.
_____. 1998. Human Action: A Treatise on Economics. Scholar’s Edition. Auburn, AL: The Ludwig von Mises Institute.
Rothbard, Murray N. 1993. “Hands Off the Serbs.” RRR: Rothbard-Rockwell Report. Pp. 1-5.
_____. 1994. “Nations by Consent: Decomposing the Nation-State.” Journal of Libertarian Studies 11:1 (Fall): 1-10.

• 1. Mises (1983, p. 34) gives the charming example of the Italian nationalists who shouted to the imperial Austrian soldiers: “Go back across the Alps and we will become brothers again.”
• 2. However, Mises (1983, p. 37) concedes that in rare cases, “where freedom and self government already prevail and seem assured without it,” such as Switzerland, the right of self determination may not result in a nationally unified state.
• 3. On the ethnic-religious conflicts in the former Yugoslavia see Rothbard (1993; 1994).
• 4. Rothbard (1994, pp. 5-6) makes a similar point about the unavoidable political conflicts that arise in a situation where different nationalities are bound together under the jurisdiction of a single, laissez-faire liberal government: “But even under the minimal state, national boundaries would still make a difference, often a big one, to the inhabitants of the area. For in what language . . . will be the street signs, telephone books, court proceedings, or school classes of the area?
• 5. A more euphonious term than “mixed-nation-states” for these political entities would be “multinational states” but given its current connotation, the latter term is likely to be misleading.

Joseph Salerno is academic vice president of the Mises Institute, professor of economics at Pace University, and editor of the Quarterly Journal of Austrian Economics.

[Swordsmyth]

"But they are all socialist communist criminal rapists and killers! They want to take away everything I have!"

Close enough.

[euphemia]

Wow. The totalitarian Communist dictatorship of North Korea is your example to follow. Thank you for demonstrating how all you people really are just violent Socialist thugs deep down.

I’m not a socialist, violent, or a thug. I’m really just a fat little grandma who believes that as long as other countries do not allow Americans to freely travel to their countries, they should not be allowed to cross our borders. I have tons of friends who live and work overseas and I know for a fact it is very hard to get a visa to travel to other countries.

I also have tons of friends who are from other countries who have had a very hard time getting green cards to work here when they have filled out piles of papers and paid thousands of dollars. I have a friend who was taken away from the airport in handcuffs because he overstayed his visa by one day so he could see his twin sister who was returning from two years work in Africa.

The Constituton calls for equal protection under the law. That means one standard for all. There should be no favoritism. If people follow the procedure, they should be given consideration. If there is no documentation, and entry takes place at any other place than an approved port of entry, then too bad.

[PAF]

I’m not a socialist, violent, or a thug. I’m really just a fat little grandma who believes that as long as other countries do not allow Americans to freely travel to their countries, they should not be allowed to cross our borders. I have tons of friends who live and work overseas and I know for a fact it is very hard to get a visa to travel to other countries.

I also have tons of friends who are from other countries who have had a very hard time getting green cards to work here when they have filled out piles of papers and paid thousands of dollars. I have a friend who was taken away from the airport in handcuffs because he overstayed his visa by one day so he could see his twin sister who was returning from two years work in Africa.

The Constituton calls for equal protection under the law. That means one standard for all. There should be no favoritism. If people follow the procedure, they should be given consideration. If there is no documentation, and entry takes place at any other place than an approved port of entry, then too bad.

That doesn’t mean we bow to their standards. WE have a Bill of Rights, that outlines what all human beings are born with. We should be promoting freedom/liberty, not emulate other countries.

[Swordsmyth]

That doesn’t mean we bow to their standards. WE have a Bill of Rights, that outlines what all human beings are born with. We should be promoting freedom/liberty, not emulate other countries.

The BoR doesn't mention a right to invade.

[euphemia]

That doesn’t mean we bow to their standards. WE have a Bill of Rights, that outlines what all human beings are born with. We should be promoting freedom/liberty, not emulate other countries.

Reading comprehension not high on your agenda, I see. One standard for all who wish to live in the US. One standard. Follow the process and be welcome.

[Zippyjuan]

The BoR doesn't mention a right to invade.

Bill of Rights makes no distinctions between citizens and immigrants.

[Swordsmyth]

Bill of Rights makes no distinctions between citizens and immigrants.

That's because it has nothing to do with immigration.