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Thread: Net Neutrality Repealed

  1. #31
    Nothing was repealed.

    "Repeal" specifically means to rescind a law or act of congress.
    There was no act of congress, there was no law.
    Therefore, it was not repealed.

    I've been having a field day with my leftist friends saying "Oh boo hoo all of this was done behind closed doors and the will of the people and the will of experts wasn't taken into consideration" and I show up saying "How the hell do you think it got there in the first place?"

    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.



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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Nothing was repealed.

    "Repeal" specifically means to rescind a law or act of congress.
    There was no act of congress, there was no law.
    Therefore, it was not repealed.

    I've been having a field day with my leftist friends saying "Oh boo hoo all of this was done behind closed doors and the will of the people and the will of experts wasn't taken into consideration" and I show up saying "How the hell do you think it got there in the first place?"

    Wasn't it an EO that was simply reversed? The whole 'will of the people' argument is kinda toothless.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    And without net neutrality, they could sell him a gamer option that could prioritize game-specific traffic.
    As DamienTV says, 'We'll see.' I've got a feeling it will be more of the 'ole cellular phone bill number-shuffle magic show where you don't actually save anything. At least with my phone, I could tell AT&T to go f'k themselves and switch back to Verizon. (then I can watch their magic show, lol). Not the greatest of options, mind you, but it's more options than I have in the broadband industry.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 12-14-2017 at 07:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Wasn't it an EO that was simply reversed? The whole 'will of the people' argument is kinda toothless.
    I remember it being nothing more than FCC fatwa.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  7. #35
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_ne..._United_States

    "Between 2005 and 2012, five attempts to pass bills in Congress containing net neutrality provisions failed.
    ...
    In November 2014, President Barack Obama recommended that the FCC reclassify broadband Internet service as a telecommunications service.[13] In January 2015, Republicans presented an HR discussion draft bill that made concessions to net neutrality but prohibited the FCC from enacting any further regulation affecting ISPs.[14] On February 26, 2015, the FCC ruled in favor of net neutrality by reclassifying broadband as a common carrier under Title II of the Communications Act of 1934 and Section 706 of the Telecommunications Act of 1996.[3][15][16] On April 13, 2015, the FCC published the final rule on its new "Net Neutrality" regulations.[17][18] These rules went into effect on June 12, 2015."
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    However, such open competition simply does not exist throughout the ISP world. Barriers to entry have made it extremely cost-prohibitive for upstart ISPs to build into an area where an incumbent ISP is already established. It is precisely these companies who have used the bully-stick of governments over the years to fortify their monopolies, and then complained when government tried to regulate them. Boo hoo I say.

    The wired world has defined government mandated monopolies by region - the baby bells. Even worse they got tax breaks and the ability to charge extra fees to supposedly give super fast connections to nearly every home in america. This was to the tune of 400+ billion. A past FCC person has been writing on this for a long time now, he started when it was the "200 billion broadband scandal".

    I'm of the opinion if the telcos pay back their 400 billion then they can act as a regular business. Until then they should be forced to act as if the free market actually applied to them. You know there are issues when a company the size of Google can't put fiber into cities.
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

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  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
    The wired world has defined government mandated monopolies by region - the baby bells. Even worse they got tax breaks and the ability to charge extra fees to supposedly give super fast connections to nearly every home in america. This was to the tune of 400+ billion. A past FCC person has been writing on this for a long time now, he started when it was the "200 billion broadband scandal".

    I'm of the opinion if the telcos pay back their 400 billion then they can act as a regular business. Until then they should be forced to act as if the free market actually applied to them. You know there are issues when a company the size of Google can't put fiber into cities.
    Bingo. I don't even like Google but damn.

    When it comes to governance and regulations:

    Rule #1: Don't create monsters.

    Rule #2: If a monster is created, put it in a cage.

    Rule #3: Do not remove the cage unless the monster is dead.

    Rule 1: applies to libertarian/free-market principles. It's really where we should be fighting to get back to the hardest. Government should never have started picking winners and losers in the ISP world.
    Rule 2: ventures into statism. More government control to fix a problem government created, which has its share of pitfalls. Glass Steagall was a cage. Rule #2 is a sh*tty choice we are often left with once rule #1 has been broken. but just as bad as breaking the next rule . . .
    Rule 3: Breaking this rule results in corporatism/crony-capitalism unleashed in full demonic fury, which leaves bad tastes in voters' mouths who misguidedly assume capitalism, not corporatism/crony-capitalism and government sweet-heart deals, is to blame. In my opinion, Ajit Pai broke rule #3 with this vote today. And unfortunately for free market fans, he's made no effort towards respecting rule #1. Like most bureaucrats in D.C., he probably just wants to retire comfortably.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 12-14-2017 at 08:37 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  10. #38
    The drama. I'm on the edge of my seat.

    Maybe they could spend $30 on a Chromecast?

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post

    I'm of the opinion if the telcos pay back their 400 billion then they can act as a regular business. Until then they should be forced to act as if the free market actually applied to them. You know there are issues when a company the size of Google can't put fiber into cities.
    Who granted the monopolies in the cities - the feds or the cities themselves? Because if it's the decision of the cities, the feds have no business getting involved.

  12. #40
    Maybe if the government regulates the minimum mpg an engine can have in a car they will design more efficient engines. It's not like market forces like rising gas prices will ever be as effective.



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  14. #41
    The more I think about it, the more the whine about the Google / Amazon spat ticks me off. If Google has a stranglehold on on-demand video service, then letting Amazon refuse to carry it would open a market up to a competitor.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Who granted the monopolies in the cities - the feds or the cities themselves? Because if it's the decision of the cities, the feds have no business getting involved.
    The telephone system ones were granted monopoly status by the feds. Cable companies often have exclusive deals within the cities they cover.
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

    BTC: 1AFbCLYU3G1dkbsSJnk3spWeEwpqYVC2Pq

  16. #43
    Here's a good summary:

    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    The more I think about it, the more the whine about the Google / Amazon spat ticks me off. If Google has a stranglehold on on-demand video service, then letting Amazon refuse to carry it would open a market up to a competitor.
    This is what I always think about when they talk about competing currencies to the petro dollar. I really don't think competition would be bad for money, hell Ron Paul said that was the best way to get away from fiat currency. If its good for ice cream then why not everything?



  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
    The telephone system ones were granted monopoly status by the feds. Cable companies often have exclusive deals within the cities they cover.
    So you're suggesting that the fed should be able to force the cities to behave a certain way?

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
    The telephone system ones were granted monopoly status by the feds. Cable companies often have exclusive deals within the cities they cover.
    breaking up companies like Ma Bell and Microsoft/Intel didn't really help getting rid of monopolies. When the government taxes or intervenes with the market it always makes things worse and slows down innovation. Microsoft was fighting cable TV with the tech they were coming out with. They have manmade diamonds that are better then the natural made ones and the jewelers can't even tell the difference. I never wonder why our tech seems to lag behind other countries.


  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    So you're suggesting that the fed should be able to force the cities to behave a certain way?
    Surely there's a role for the federal government to protect liberty?

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    As DamienTV says, 'We'll see.' I've got a feeling it will be more of the 'ole cellular phone bill number-shuffle magic show where you don't actually save anything. At least with my phone, I could tell AT&T to go f'k themselves and switch back to Verizon. (then I can watch their magic show, lol). Not the greatest of options, mind you, but it's more options than I have in the broadband industry.
    Have you looked into satellite internet? https://www.hughesnet.com/
    USE THIS SITE TO LINK ARTICLES FROM OLIGARCH MEDIA:http://archive.is/ STARVE THE BEAST.
    More Government = Less Freedom
    Communism never disappeared it only changed its name to Social Democrat
    Emotion and Logic mix like oil and water



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Surely there's a role for the federal government to protect liberty?
    Not per the constitution.

  24. #50

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by seapilot View Post
    Have you looked into satellite internet? https://www.hughesnet.com/
    Satellite as it currently is isn't a good replacement for anything other than dialup. Speed of light to a geo sync satellite makes latency a huge problem. Noticeable delays between clicking a link and getting information, gaming isn't doable, telephony has bad delay. Musk has talked about low orbit micro sats, facebook has been playing with high altitude drones, google has been testing weather balloons, but that tech isn't there yet.

    The cities that signed exclusive contracts were idiots but that's at least their problem to clean up. It's when a government monopoly like a telephone company won't allow a new company to put lines down that it becomes a troublesome problem. Or the government changes legal definitions so companies can sell you "fiber optic" internet even where there is a copper line going to your house, as long as fiber is within a 1/2 mile of your house.

    My electric co-op - which in itself is not all that common - has been putting fiber to customer's homes as they update the electric lines. That's at least a way around the monopolies. This actually was only doable as part of TARP as Michigan used some of those funds to put a fiber ring around the state which companies can tap into.
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

    BTC: 1AFbCLYU3G1dkbsSJnk3spWeEwpqYVC2Pq

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Who granted the monopolies in the cities - the feds or the cities themselves? Because if it's the decision of the cities, the feds have no business getting involved.
    The feds created the cable-franchise monopoly systems that the local municipalities (counties). The municipalities keep the incumbents out of the market.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
    Satellite as it currently is isn't a good replacement for anything other than dialup.
    I. Can't. Even.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Root View Post
    The feds created the cable-franchise monopoly systems that the local municipalities (counties). The municipalities keep the incumbents out of the market.
    I understand that. But it appears to me that those First-Worlders weeping because they only have 4 or 5 choices for internet (dial-up, satellite, cable, DSL, Cellular) are insisting that the federales need to come in and take away the rights of the states and lower governing bodies.

    Which is dumb, depressing and downright dangerous. But much easier than actually attending a city council meeting, much less running for local office.

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
    Satellite as it currently is isn't a good replacement for anything other than dialup. Speed
    Which is true because of REGULATION. 1 Gbps and 25ms uplink isn't good enough for dial up?
    With latency as low as 25ms, SpaceX to launch broadband satellites

    private spacecraft company founded by CEO Elon Musk filed an application Tuesday for satellite space station authorizations with the US Federal ... high bandwidth (up to 1Gbps per user), low-latency broadband services for consumers and businesses in the US and globally,”

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    I understand that. But it appears to me that those First-Worlders weeping because they only have 4 or 5 choices for internet (dial-up, satellite, cable, DSL, Cellular) are insisting that the federales need to come in and take away the rights of the states and lower governing bodies.

    Which is dumb, depressing and downright dangerous. But much easier than actually attending a city council meeting, much less running for local office.
    I'm using this as a good opportunity to remind these upset folks that it's only because of the government we are in this position.

    Only the government has the power to create monopolies. Why do ISP's have monopolies in their respective areas? Because the government grants them this, through exclusive 10 to 20 year franchise agreements which keeps almost all other incumbent & start-up providers out of that marketplace. It makes zero sense to let the same government buffoons who established this cable-franchise monopoly system to create more controls and regulations, because they did such a good job with it the first time?!?


    If we really wanted to increase competition in the ISP marketplace, the right way to do it is to get the government out of the way. Allow start-ups to build along any existing right-of-way and new private easement agreements with landowners. This should be plain and clear when a company with resources like Google can't put fiber into cities.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Which is true because of REGULATION. 1 Gbps and 25ms uplink isn't good enough for dial up?
    The satellite systems Musk is talking about is a constellation of them in low earth orbit, it should work wonderfully for Internet.

    The current satellite internet services are in geosync orbits about 22K miles away which means a round trip time to the bird and back is 1/4 of a second each way at best, so 1/2 a second is tied up automatically. Then you add the other quarter second and you can't do realtime. This isn't bad if you're entirely passive, click a link, wait a second, click another. Can't do remote work very well.
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

    BTC: 1AFbCLYU3G1dkbsSJnk3spWeEwpqYVC2Pq

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    And so it begins, lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
    The satellite systems Musk is talking about is a constellation of them in low earth orbit, it should work wonderfully for Internet.
    Like Iridium satellites on less than 500 miles altitude orbit - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridiu..._constellation

  35. #60
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

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