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Thread: Where do we go from here.........

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Dude, I'm sorry but it's an open discussion and you just couldn't leave the elephant alone.

    This movement ended on 7 June 2012 when Rand endorsed Romney. I'm not going to get in the circular firing squad of whether Ron was still in the race (despite the fact that he was) but you have to face the fact that we are a group of people who pride ourselves on not being the average voting goldfish and we actually remember things.

    We are not going to forget that. We're not going to forget that his 17 hour filibuster condensed to "you can't drone strike citizens unless you filled out some paperwork".

    It's true that he's doing great things with Fauci right now but that puts him roughly on par with Ted Cruz going after Garland.

    Rand is not who you say he is no matter how many times you say it and we are absolutely not supporting him to the degree you wish. Rand was the golden child who was set up to inherit everything and he kicked it - and us - to the curb. He's doing fine without us so we're moving on.
    I completely understand the position, and have since 2012. Rand isn't Ron, and isn't for everyone here or otherwise. So to be more correct, my "Agree to support Massie and Rand." was a personal view or I could have stated "Agree to support Massie and Rand as aligned to personal views".

    While neither Massie nor Rand are Ron, in my view, they are advancing our cause in a net postive manner. Example: Massie just put forth a bill to abolish OSHA. To the point, I see it best to get behind ideas, and efforts, not people, but it's valued to know where to look (following the right people can help).

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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan View Post
    I completely understand the position, and have since 2012. Rand isn't Ron, and isn't for everyone here or otherwise. So to be more correct, my "Agree to support Massie and Rand." was a personal view or I could have stated "Agree to support Massie and Rand as aligned to personal views".

    While neither Massie nor Rand are Ron, in my view, they are advancing our cause in a net postive manner. Example: Massie just put forth a bill to abolish OSHA. To the point, I see it best to get behind ideas, and efforts, not people, but it's valued to know where to look (following the right people can help).

    Gosar is another one to watch.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Fed Gov is a lost cause, short of a 1776 type situation.

    Focus on your local governments, secession specifically.

    If you're in Texas, get Abbott the $#@! out.

    If you're an idealist and the above isn't good enough for you, then start a FSP type project.

    This is really the way right now. Focus on local/state and however you can empower it not just for liberty now, but to actively fight against communism/marxism. Those are our two objectives, plain and simple.
    Forget the federal level stuff, it's lost. This is where the libertarian party loses me beyond just the childish infighting: they keep focusing on federal level elections and outcomes. Start small and local, then build from there.

    But to be honest, let's start even smaller: start with yourself, your family, then your friends, then your community. Sound hard to do or too hokey? Well, that's the key to winning this long term. We are here today because we've lived lives of decadence and we have generations of people who've never had a "hard" day in their lives. We're here because the left infiltrated our culture (Hollywood, Academia, Music, etc.) decades ago. And now we are reaping what was sown by them for decades. We have generations of younger Americans believing they deserve everything for nothing, that people who don't think like them can and should be jailed or even have violence committed upon them, etc.

    We have to start over and that begins with each of us focusing on ourselves, our families, friends, and the community.

    For those saying local/state level is a wash for you as well, then I will ask you to consider moving to an area with people who think like you do. Part of our problem is we're spread out and thus we can't attack from points of strength. To any libertarian in California, why? You should have left already. New York? Why?! You should have left already.
    Go to areas with like minded people. In time, these numbers will begin to mean something. If you can't leave the state, well then you better start looking for towns or cities in your state that have high concentrations of liberty oriented folks and you better start telling others to do the same.
    Welcome to the R3VOLUTION!

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Dude, I'm sorry but it's an open discussion and you just couldn't leave the elephant alone.

    This movement ended on 7 June 2012 when Rand endorsed Romney. I'm not going to get in the circular firing squad of whether Ron was still in the race (despite the fact that he was) but you have to face the fact that we are a group of people who pride ourselves on not being the average voting goldfish and we actually remember things.

    We are not going to forget that. We're not going to forget that his 17 hour filibuster condensed to "you can't drone strike citizens unless you filled out some paperwork".

    It's true that he's doing great things with Fauci right now but that puts him roughly on par with Ted Cruz going after Garland.

    Rand is not who you say he is no matter how many times you say it and we are absolutely not supporting him to the degree you wish. Rand was the golden child who was set up to inherit everything and he kicked it - and us - to the curb. He's doing fine without us so we're moving on.
    Hate to break it to you, but all you are doing by kicking Rand to the curb is cutting all ties to 'the forums,' son..... the cold hard truth is, sometimes you have to give a little in life, too, it's not just your way, or the highway.

    I like Rand.
    FJB

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    I like Rand.
    Me, too.

    As for the rest, well. His daddy is the very person who taught him to endorse any and all GOP candidates and "presumptive nominees". "Unless you fill out paperwork" is a bit silly; that issue needed to be aired and only he tackled it. And Cruz is aping him in going after Garland, just as he aped him with his very own filibuster. Cruz rose above himself and did a good thing, but as a comparison, did Cruz expose U.S. support of a Chinese military facility, U.S. treaty violations (biological weapons were banned by treaty long ago), and perjury by the face of the big push for tyranny?

    I thought not. In fact, the very fact that he keeps inspiring these "me too" moments in Cruz is just another selling point. What did Ted ever do of use to anyone before Rand Paul was elected?

    Yeah, yeah. He can be mealy-mouthed. Of course he's wrong about the jab having any value at all for the recipient. But he has always met the normies halfway with his rhetoric. I can live with that, so long as he doesn't start meeting them halfway with his votes.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 11-10-2021 at 09:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    I like Rand.
    At no point did I say I don't like him. At no point did I say he isn't doing good things.
    What I thought I clearly said is that he is not the inheritor of the Revolution.
    He is not going to be the person who is the answer "where do we go from here".
    He thought he could do better with Republican faithful and so far it's working out for him. Good for him. Good for us, in that 30% overlap between his position and the position that brought us here.

    Also, regarding this being a Rand forum now: you might want to take a look around at the attendance here. Most of the people who made this place what it was are gone. Did they go somewhere better? Did they give up on liberty?

    Or is my theory correct, that they're gone because there was nobody to take up Ron Paul's mantle once they all realized Rand was specifically refusing to?

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    "Unless you fill out paperwork" is a bit silly; that issue needed to be aired and only he tackled it.
    Silly? It's the truth. Go back and listen to what he's saying, or read the transcript.
    The message he very clearly put forth is that the federal government should not be drone striking US citizens on US soil without procuring a warrant.

    At no point did he say "It's not cool to be drone striking anyone, period".
    At no point did he say "It's not cool to be drone striking citizens irrespective of location, period".
    At no point did he say "It's not cool to be drone striking people in the US", period".

    He went on for 17 hours and never said anything besides asking the Obama regime if they would specifically agree not to drone strike citizens on US soil without a warrant.

    "Mealy mouthed" doesn't really even cut it there. He phrased his filibuster specifically to make it so incredibly specific that Obama would have to concede it.
    It was done to score political points.
    He walked out of it looking better to everyone across the political spectrum who doesn't like drone strikes, while at the same time not really decrying drone strikes, and changing absolutely nothing.

    If anyone ever does end up lighting a fire under this movement's ass again, it's going to be someone who shares Ron Paul's prioritization of what is right over what looks good. And again, I'm not saying Rand isn't doing good things. I'm just pointing out that even if we had any sort of evidence he wanted to be that guy, he's not that guy.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Silly? It's the truth. Go back and listen to what he's saying, or read the transcript.
    The message he very clearly put forth is that the federal government should not be drone striking US citizens on US soil without procuring a warrant.

    At no point did he say "It's not cool to be drone striking anyone, period".
    At no point did he say "It's not cool to be drone striking citizens irrespective of location, period".
    At no point did he say "It's not cool to be drone striking people in the US", period".

    He went on for 17 hours and never said anything besides asking the Obama regime if they would specifically agree not to drone strike citizens on US soil without a warrant.
    Sorry, I think you are being pretty silly here. Rand explained about the historical reasons of checks and balances as a means to rein in government impulses. I think it goes without saying that we're against drone strikes, but Rand was focusing on how to get the government to avoid them. If they had to do them in a constitutional manner, they wouldn't happen.

    I know you don't agree with that approach, but it's still an approach to get the same results. Also think it's an approach a lot of people could get behind. Your approach will work for people like you, but a larger portion of the population can make up at least one scenario where they'd like government to have that power. And when you start talking a zero sum, all or nothing game, you're going to drive people off. Rand's approach appeals to a greater audience.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    If anyone ever does end up lighting a fire under this movement's ass again, it's going to be someone who shares Ron Paul's prioritization of what is right over what looks good. And again, I'm not saying Rand isn't doing good things. I'm just pointing out that even if we had any sort of evidence he wanted to be that guy, he's not that guy.
    The Donald Trump movement took over. Its not like Rand didn't run for president and wasn't taken seriously... he's still young politically.
    His methods might still prove out. By staying amicable with Trump, all those Trumpers and Trumpettes think quite well of Rand Paul.
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    The Donald Trump movement took over. Its not like Rand didn't run for president and wasn't taken seriously... he's still young politically.
    His methods might still prove out. By staying amicable with Trump, all those Trumpers and Trumpettes think quite well of Rand Paul.
    So? They sniff for consensus, then go with the herd. And they never sniff around the herd for consensus. They let the MSM tell them where the consensus lies--even though the MSM lies about that consensus.

    In the early 2016 GOP primaries Trump was getting between six and seven percent of the vote. That was sufficient in a field of seventeen candidates, but it was no consensus. But, as always, the more primaries he won, the bigger his margins became, as Republicans fell in with the herd as though they were betting money instead of voting.

    They might know who's best. But even though going out on a limb does them no harm whatsoever, they always vote for the one they're manipulated into voting for.

    And that was before American elections entered the Mail Fraud Era. Now they won't just be letting the powers that be manipulate them, the power mongers will be stuffing their ballot boxes too. So who Republicans like and trust never meant anything, and it means even less now.

    Where do we go from here? We go around that stumbling block, or we go through it, or we run smack up against it. Again.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 11-11-2021 at 03:29 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Given the opportunities afforded by COVID tyranny, rampant wokeness, regnant inflation, looming economic disaster, etc., the lackadaisical, milquetoast, Gary-Johnson-esque messaging and bland appeals to the "lowest common denominator" historically favored by the LP are simply unconscionable. The Ron Paul Revolution has been slowly fizzling out ever since 2012, and if someone doesn't actually do something about it, it's apt to die once and for all, without even a whimper. The Mises Caucus is resolved to prevent that from happening, and whatever its chances may be, with members and spokesmen like Tom Woods, Scott Horton, Michael Boldin, and Dave Smith, those chances are at least as good as any other opportunity we have available.
    The Kentucky LP is one of the state parties "taken over" by the Mises Caucus. And unlike the half-apologetic milquetoasts and half-assed "make government more efficient" crowd, they aren't kissing up to the Cathedral any more than Ron Paul ever did:

    https://twitter.com/lpky/status/1458671332221239303


    https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/stat...21533607120896


    https://twitter.com/AnarchoCanadian/...72529834160140



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  14. #41
    There are a lot more people out there waking up to governments over-reach than there was 13 years ago, maybe the Ron Paul ways are just that much more widespread now.

    Allow me.....



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    A prime example of an overlooked root cause is the proclaimed health care crisis in the United States where many people are rightfully concerned over the exorbitant cost of health care. The root cause that many seem to be overlooking however is that the high costs are a direct result of too much government involvement and over regulation in the health care market. The over regulation of forcing the use of arbitrary standards and criteria has seriously restricted peoples ability to conduct business in the health care industry which has led to less competition and skyrocketing health care costs. In a free society, individuals would have the ability to operate health care practices, educational institutions and insurance companies on their own terms as long as they aren't being dishonest. Those in need could then choose what services are right for them even if the offering doesn't meet today's arbitrary standards. In a free society, high prices would draw in competition for more cost effective solutions which would lower the costs of health care overall. In the case of the proclaimed U.S. health care crisis the failure to drill down to the root cause of exorbitant costs has prompted the "solution" of more governmental involvement which will only drive overall costs higher while lowering the standard of care due to bureaucratic overhead and restricted choices that everyone is forced into.

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    Alas, there is certainly no universal agreement on all issues, this is OK. Resolving differences is truly the point of civic engagement which one should embrace as an important element within the human experience as we develop knowledge and wisdom throughout our lifetime on this planet that we all share. In short, one should think, be thoughtful and avoid seeking a "solution" that only addresses a superficial symptom of an unseen root cause issue. As one shifts their thinking to the application of the principles of liberty one will realize that it can lead to a wonderful planet where all can flourish. The message of liberty truly brings us together.

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  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    The Kentucky LP is one of the state parties "taken over" by the Mises Caucus. And unlike the half-apologetic milquetoasts and half-assed "make government more efficient" crowd, they aren't kissing up to the Cathedral any more than Ron Paul ever did:

    https://twitter.com/lpky/status/1458671332221239303


    https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/stat...21533607120896


    https://twitter.com/AnarchoCanadian/...72529834160140
    Were they the ones that bragged about replacing Bevin with a Dem just in time for the CCP Virus tyranny?
    If they took over after that have they repudiated it and apologized?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    The Kentucky LP is one of the state parties "taken over" by the Mises Caucus. And unlike the half-apologetic milquetoasts and half-assed "make government more efficient" crowd, they aren't kissing up to the Cathedral any more than Ron Paul ever did:

    https://twitter.com/lpky/status/1458671332221239303


    https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/stat...21533607120896


    https://twitter.com/AnarchoCanadian/...72529834160140
    Well played, LPMC
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    At no point did I say I don't like him. At no point did I say he isn't doing good things.
    What I thought I clearly said is that he is not the inheritor of the Revolution.
    He is not going to be the person who is the answer "where do we go from here".
    If I'm understanding your point, its that he may be a good Senator but he isn't an inspiring leader.

    In which case I would agree.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Were they the ones that bragged about replacing Bevin with a Dem just in time for the CCP Virus tyranny?
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    If they took over after that have they repudiated it and apologized?
    No, they haven't. Why should they?

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Were they the ones that bragged about replacing Bevin with a Dem just in time for the CCP Virus tyranny?
    If they took over after that have they repudiated it and apologized?
    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian Party of Kentucky
    Had Matt Bevin not ditched his liberty Lt Governor for a Mitch McConnell picked anti liberty, corrupt running mate who has tried to eliminate Kentuckians jury trial rights, had Matt Bevin not presided over a huge sales tax increase, had Matt Bevin supported any of our key issues on criminal justice reform, marijuana legalization, expanded gaming, cutting taxes, or acted with the least bit of civility, we probably would not have run a candidate. Of course, he did the opposite. And here we are.
    We split the vote. And we could not be more thrilled. If our friends in the major parties do not want this to happen again, they should think about passing ranked choice voting. And supporting our issues.
    In the meantime, thank you to John Hicks, Ann Cormican, Kyle Hugenberg, Josh Gilpin and Kyle Sweeney for running. Your effort was appreciated.
    For the Bevin supporters, your tears are delicious”
    So you're faulting the LP for running against a RINO clearly in bed with the totalitarians? Is that what you're saying?

    You're crying because a RINO got his feet held to the fire, and proved not to have a conservative bone in his body?

    Tell the Kentucky GOP to apologize for endangering the jury rights and prosperity of the people in that state, and giving them covert Democrats as an alleged "alternative" to overt Democrats. Don't fault the new guard of the only party which, under the old guard, did field an alternative to overt and covert Democrats.

    Covid tyranny. What evidence do you have that he'd have done one thing differently? His twits criticizing the guy who had beaten him? That R next to his name? What?

    The Libertarian Party doesn't owe your RINOs jack $#@!. Get over it. Your RINO bootlicking will never, ever get us one ounce of freedom.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 11-11-2021 at 08:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Not for POTUS but at least for Senate.
    Honestly, I think we're better off going for Congress. We've tried to elect Senators before, but it takes a lot more money and resources, of which the establishment usually as more of.

    But with the House, we came damn close to electing a Ron Paulian to Congress in 2020. Matt Gurtler was a solid libertarian who openly spoke of stopping the endless wars in a GOP primary. Eric Brakey was a Ron Paul style candidate who came decently close as well. Nick Freitas isn't quite a Ron Paul style guy, but he's still quite libertarian leaning and he almost beat Abigail Spanberger for Congress.

    Right now Anthony Sabatini and Steve Carra are both running for Congress. I wouldn't say either of them are full blown libertarians, but they're very libertarian friendly, they both are involved with Young Americans for Liberty, and they both have decent shots of winning. Tim Baxter up in New Hampshire is apparently liberty friendly as well.

    We don't have a full-blown Matt Gurtler this cycle, at least not yet. But in the meantime, a handful of libertarian-friendly candidates is better than nothing.

  21. #48
    Every time I hear the phrase "gun culture", I envision this:



    ... then I think "That looks frickin' AWESOME"...
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    So? They sniff for consensus, then go with the herd. And they never sniff around the herd for consensus. They let the MSM tell them where the consensus lies--even though the MSM lies about that consensus.

    In the early 2016 GOP primaries Trump was getting between six and seven percent of the vote. That was sufficient in a field of seventeen candidates, but it was no consensus. But, as always, the more primaries he won, the bigger his margins became, as Republicans fell in with the herd as though they were betting money instead of voting.

    They might know who's best. But even though going out on a limb does them no harm whatsoever, they always vote for the one they're manipulated into voting for.

    And that was before American elections entered the Mail Fraud Era. Now they won't just be letting the powers that be manipulate them, the power mongers will be stuffing their ballot boxes too. So who Republicans like and trust never meant anything, and it means even less now.

    Where do we go from here? We go around that stumbling block, or we go through it, or we run smack up against it. Again.
    Trump quickly shot up through the ranks, because he was the chosenz all along. I agree that the choice of manipulation is either almost impossible or literally impossible to beat in a primary. Ron's experience in the primaries displays that, as does others'. Even after Trump is gone, the chosenz are already being lined up, and it won't be Rand that they want to lead the GOP. I suppose an assessment of "the movement" needs to be realistic about expectations. The requisite changes to our political process and the electoral process are nowhere near functional for a level playing field to occur, and even if there were to be a level playing field, the Republican party is too intertwined with the establishment to create substantial change.

    Still, this doesn't mean that Rand or Massie would be better off becoming Independents or going Third Way, because their chances to win 3-way elections would suffer. They are in Congress which is more than can be said for Libertarians, Constitution Party, etc.

    The "movement" is best focused on State Reps and Governorships where a States Rights or Secession/Creative Disruption effort can create real differences that will resist the Federal tyranny, but it also should support Republicans in Federal elections, rather than waste votes that only help the Democrats win, because in the final analysis, Democrats are more dangerous to our way of life.
    Last edited by Snowball; 11-12-2021 at 10:26 AM.
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Were they the ones that bragged about replacing Bevin with a Dem just in time for the CCP Virus tyranny?
    If they took over after that have they repudiated it and apologized?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post

    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to acptulsa again."
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    No.
    Good.


    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    No, they haven't. Why should they?
    Because the LP is widely viewed as part of the Demoncrat party aimed at taking votes from conservatives to help elect communists and their predecessors effectively confirmed that.

    If they ever want to be taken seriously they should make it clear that the Kentucky LP is under new management and will not do something as stupid as running a candidate against one of the best most libertarian governors in the US and then bragging about handing the state over to the Demoncrats.
    The fact that Kentucky has suffered under the Demoncrat when they could have had Bevin to resist COVID tyranny only makes it more urgent that they repudiate what happened.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    So you're faulting the LP for running against a RINO clearly in bed with the totalitarians? Is that what you're saying?

    You're crying because a RINO got his feet held to the fire, and proved not to have a conservative bone in his body?

    Tell the Kentucky GOP to apologize for endangering the jury rights and prosperity of the people in that state, and giving them covert Democrats as an alleged "alternative" to overt Democrats. Don't fault the new guard of the only party which, under the old guard, did field an alternative to overt and covert Democrats.

    Covid tyranny. What evidence do you have that he'd have done one thing differently? His twits criticizing the guy who had beaten him? That R next to his name? What?

    The Libertarian Party doesn't owe your RINOs jack $#@!. Get over it. Your RINO bootlicking will never, ever get us one ounce of freedom.
    Bevin was one of the best and most libertarian governors in the US.
    It is clear you would support replacing Rand with someone like AOC for being imperfect.
    I'll let others draw their own conclusions why.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    LP: "I want to help the first guy do it so fast there is no chance to reverse it"
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Bevin was one of the best and most libertarian governors in the US.
    That means nothing coming from someone who has repeatedly proven he doesn't know what 'libertarian' means, and has shown such disdain for the label itself that he has never before used 'best' and 'libertarian' in the same sentence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It is clear you would support replacing Rand with someone like AOC for being imperfect.
    I'll let others draw their own conclusions why.
    It is clear that I've been supporting Rand from the beginning, while you threw him under the bus for your orange god time and again--along with Amash, and Bradley, and even Massie when he told us all how Trump was conspiring with Pelosi.

    Do you think people aren't capable of drawing their own conclusions about all that?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 11-13-2021 at 07:45 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    LP: "I want to help the first guy do it so fast there is no chance to reverse it"
    You arrogant four flusher, you're trying to tell us there's something faster than Warp Speed?

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Starts at 21 minutes 10 seconds:

    Here's a news flash for you, troll. That state and this nation can survive a couple of years of all-Democrat "governance". That has been proven time and again. What it hasn't survived is fifty years of conservative voters voting for slightly less left leftists and refusing to vote for conservatives because people like you keep screeching that the difference between left and slightly less left actually means something, and that conservative conservatives can't win. Self fulfilling prophesies are a mental illness.

    Even someone as blind as you should be able to see the iceberg through the fog by now. It's a hundred feet off the port bow. Slightly less than left won't avoid it. Either we get someone at the helm who can spin the wheel hard to starboard or this ship sinks.

    The GOP has, at most, three or four people in federal office that can do that. And people like you are the reason why. Why do you hate actual conservatism? Because you hate America?

    Being a team player is only helpful if your team is not trying to put the ball in the other team's goal.. If that's what your team is doing, an effective team player thwarts his "teammates" until they wake up and smell the coffee. And you? You accuse me of being willing to turn on Rand Paul, just to try to paint Bevin as something conservative? Bevin is no Rand Paul, and when two Republicans disagree, you always throw the less conservative one under the bus. Why? Because he outranks the other? Trump Cuck Syndrome? You're a totalitarian?

    Keep calling me a traitor, troll. You're the one who throws conservatives under the bus for criticizing the guy who conspired with Nancy Pelosi to trash the Constitution, and created this rich get richer and everyone else starves inflation state by telling the Fed to print currency which he then gave to his cronies at Pfizer.

    TL/DR:. Shut up, totalitarian Leftist.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 11-13-2021 at 09:42 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    That means nothing coming from someone who has repeatedly proven he doesn't know what 'libertarian' means, and has shown such disdain for the label itself that he has never before used 'best' and 'libertarian' in the same sentence.



    It is clear that I've been supporting Rand from the beginning, while you threw him under the bus for your orange god time and again--along with Amash, and Bradley, and even Massie when he told us all how Trump was conspiring with Pelosi.

    Do you think people aren't capable of drawing their own conclusions about all that?


    Point out where I ever said it would be good if Rand lost to a Demoncrat like you and the LP said it was good Bevin lost to Beshear.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You arrogant four flusher, you're trying to tell us there's something faster than Warp Speed?
    Warp Speed was not a mandate and rightly or wrongly it was meant to bring an end to lockdowns like those imposed by Beshear thanks to the LP.
    And Bevin had nothing to do with Warp Speed so you are completely dishonest to bring Warp Speed into this discussion.

    If the LP wants to target bad Republicans that is arguable.
    Targeting Bevin was giving aid and comfort to the Demoncrats.


    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Here's a news flash for you, troll. That state and this nation can survive a couple of years of all-Democrat "governance".
    These aren't your father's Democrats and these Bolsheviks are shooting for all the marbles and have been since O'Bummer.

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    What it hasn't survived is fifty years of conservative voters voting for slightly less left leftists and refusing to vote for conservatives because people like you keep screeching that the difference between left and slightly less left actually means something, and that conservative conservatives can't win. Self fulfilling prophesies are a mental illness.
    That's not an accurate description of Bevin and I always support real conservatives against RINOs.
    What I don't do is help Demoncrats against one of the most conservative governors in the US and then crow about getting rid of him. (thereby pushing the Republican party to the left by trimming its right wing)

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Even someone as blind as you should be able to see the iceberg through the fog by now. It's a hundred feet off the port bow. Slightly less than left won't avoid it. Either we get someone at the helm who can spin the wheel hard to starboard or this ship sinks.

    The GOP has, at most, three or four people in federal office that can do that. And people like you are the reason why. Why do you hate actual conservatism? Because you hate America?

    Being a team player is only helpful if your team is not trying to put the ball in the other team's goal.. If that's what your team is doing, an effective team player thwarts his "teammates" until they wake up and smell the coffee. And you? You accuse me of being willing to turn on Rand Paul, just to try to paint Bevin as something conservative? Bevin is no Rand Paul, and when two Republicans disagree, you always throw the less conservative one under the bus. Why? Because he outranks the other? Trump Cuck Syndrome? You're a totalitarian?

    Keep calling me a traitor, troll. You're the one who throws conservatives under the bus for criticizing the guy who conspired with Nancy Pelosi to trash the Constitution, and created this rich get richer and everyone else starves inflation state by telling the Fed to print currency which he then gave to his cronies at Pfizer.

    TL/DR:. Shut up, totalitarian Leftist.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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