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Thread: "Libertarians for Trump"

  1. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by younglibertarian View Post
    Can a forum full of independent thinkers and different opinions have 1 specific mission?
    Combine that with the fact that people develop a personal sense of ownership/attachment of/to a given platform over time and it gets jiggy in a hot second, man. Too many chiefs. Not enough injuns. And there rarely ever develops any kind of compromise among a pow wow full of hard headed chiefs. Which, I suppose, reflects my previous thought here in the thread. Who knows...
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 05-02-2016 at 01:25 PM.



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  3. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by younglibertarian View Post
    I think what people need to start understanding is that this is a forum and no set group of people deserves to have their opinions censored.
    I know that we have been talking about the "site mission" and all this stuff is well and good, but I present a question.

    Can a forum full of independent thinkers and different opinions have 1 specific mission?

    This post can be moved to the Site Mission thread if needed but I think it is relevant here as well.
    Yes. And if that mission is to present viewpoints in opposition to the Official Viewpoint, which needs no help as it is repeated ad naseum with a billion watts of broadcast power 24/7, then censorship can be part and parcel to that mission.

    Now why shouldn't we maintain a place where the narrative which gets no airtime elsewhere can stand out? Do you have a good reason?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...



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  5. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Yes. And if that mission is to present viewpoints in opposition to the Official Viewpoint, which needs no help as it is repeated ad naseum with a billion watts of broadcast power 24/7, then censorship can be part and parcel to that mission.

    Now why shouldn't we maintain a place where the narrative which gets no airtime elsewhere can stand out? Do you have a good reason?
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Yes. And if that mission is to present viewpoints in opposition to the Official Viewpoint, which needs no help as it is repeated ad naseum with a billion watts of broadcast power 24/7, then censorship can be part and parcel to that mission.

    Now why shouldn't we maintain a place where the narrative which gets no airtime elsewhere can stand out? Do you have a good reason?
    I wasn't saying that there shouldn't be a official site viewpoint. In fact I am in agreement that Donald Trump is not a candidate who represents the liberty movement. I don't support Donald Trump or post on his behalf. In fact as you can see above in this thread I appose Mr. Trump.

    However when people on this site are supporting him that is not a valid reason to censor the post. I would say the liberty movement should be allowed to have disagreements.

    I agree with the fact that we should be a forum that maintains a narrative. But how can we do so with so many disagreements within the movement?

  6. #154
    That being said, I am a new member so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

  7. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by younglibertarian View Post
    I wasn't saying that there shouldn't be a official site viewpoint. In fact I am in agreement that Donald Trump is not a candidate who represents the liberty movement. I don't support Donald Trump or post on his behalf. In fact as you can see above in this thread I appose Mr. Trump.

    However when people on this site are supporting him that is not a valid reason to censor the post. I would say the liberty movement should be allowed to have disagreements.

    I agree with the fact that we should be a forum that maintains a narrative. But how can we do so with so many disagreements within the movement?
    See this thread, particularly the first post.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  8. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by younglibertarian View Post
    That being said, I am a new member so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
    You're likely the more refreshing new member that I've seen here in some time. Reading practical questions is almost always better than reading a wall full of answers.

  9. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritOf1776_J4 View Post
    fyi - one of the reasons I stop using sites is when the site or people (mob mentality) start trying to control the flow of facts and make the users the product instead of the beneficiary.
    A perfect description of LRC, which allows no online comments and has carefully avoided allowing providing links to Dr. Paul's spirited and thorough critiques of trump's policies.

  10. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    See this thread, particularly the first post.
    I understand that this is the general consensus. I agree with it. Regardless the fact is that there is still lots of discussion over Donald Trumps campaign, and many people have disagreements. Is simply saying someones opinion goes against the site mission and trying to make the posts disappear really solve the debate?

    I would like us all to rally around a liberty minded candidate. I support McAfee myself. Yet it is clear there is far more interest in criticizing Trump's campaign then actually supporting any other campaign.

    I mean, it is pretty easy to see where the focus/center of debate is on this site.

  11. #159
    the forum snitchers and flaggers got their wish and my thread was merged into the larger one.

  12. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    the forum snitchers and flaggers got their wish and my thread was merged into the larger one.
    So you knew there was a larger one and just decided to start another? Bad form, bad form.

    I did not snitch.



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  14. #161

    Exclamation

    a majority of RPF members dont support Trump, yet a majority of threads are about Trump and those that arent quickly get derailed by Trump supporters. This is the problem. We used to operate outside the left right paradigm, now we are stuck in it, with liberty supporters identifed as liberal cucks or secret cruz plants. worse yet, long time RPF members are attacking Ron Paul himself, because he dare oppose an authoritarian like Trump. I believe a majority of RPF members like on most forums, read and dont post and why wouuld they, there is no talk of liberty to be had. If an outsider stopped in and looked around they might mistake this for Trump forums, certainly thats what googles search bots are seeing. this will get worse as tge convention approaches and if Trump gets the nomination I dont think there will be any hope for this forum as it is moderated now. There is a thread of people happy a women fell for christs sake.

  15. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by younglibertarian View Post
    I understand that this is the general consensus. I agree with it. Regardless the fact is that there is still lots of discussion over Donald Trumps campaign, and many people have disagreements. Is simply saying someones opinion goes against the site mission and trying to make the posts disappear really solve the debate?

    I would like us all to rally around a liberty minded candidate. I support McAfee myself. Yet it is clear there is far more interest in criticizing Trump's campaign then actually supporting any other campaign.

    I mean, it is pretty easy to see where the focus/center of debate is on this site.
    That will change in a few weeks when the GOP primaries are over. If it's Trump who wins, the Trump supporters won't be able to do much without breaking the support guidelines. The Cruz supporters learned this long ago, which is why you don't see them in here trying to support Cruz.

    There won't be liberty candidate that "all" will rally around, I am definitely giving them another look, but RPF members in general will do 1 of several things, including writing in Rand/Ron, staying home, leaving the top line blank, voting CP or LP, voting GOP or D.
    Last edited by CPUd; 05-02-2016 at 01:47 PM.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  16. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
    a majority of RPF members dont support Trump, yet a majority of threads are about Trump and those that arent quickly get derailed by Trump supporters. This is the problem. We used to operate outside the left right paradigm, now we are stuck in it, with liberty supporters identifed as liberal cucks or secret cruz plants. worse yet, long time RPF members are attacking Ron Paul himself, because he dare oppose an authoritarian like Trump. I believe a majority of RPF members like on most forums, read and dont post and why wouuld they, there is no talk of liberty to be had. If an outsider stopped in and looked around they might mistake this for Trump forums, certainly thats what googles search bots are seeing. this will get worse as tge convention approaches and if Trump gets the nomination I dont think there will be any hope for this forum as it is moderated now. There is a thread of people happy a women fell for christs sake.
    Uhm.

    We use to have plans to proselyte both sides. You do your thing we'll do our thing. Take over both parties, etc.

  17. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    So you knew there was a larger one and just decided to start another? Bad form, bad form.

    I did not snitch.
    I couldn't find it when i looked but oh well.

  18. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
    a majority of RPF members dont support Trump, yet a majority of threads are about Trump and those that arent quickly get derailed by Trump supporters. This is the problem. We used to operate outside the left right paradigm, now we are stuck in it, with liberty supporters identifed as liberal cucks or secret cruz plants. worse yet, long time RPF members are attacking Ron Paul himself, because he dare oppose an authoritarian like Trump.
    "cuck", "liberal", "Cruz supporter", "aiding and abetting Hillary" and the late great "Social Justice Warrior." For supporting Ron Paul and Ron Paul's views on a formum entitled "Ron Paul Forums." SMDH. This $#@! is getting out of control. Again.

  19. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    I couldn't find it when i looked but oh well.
    Happens.

  20. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    That will change in a few weeks when the GOP primaries are over. If it's Trump who wins, the Trump supporters won't be able to do much without breaking the support guidelines. The Cruz supporters learned this long ago, which is why you don't see them in here trying to support Cruz.
    So you are saying:

    1. If Trump wins and implements a policy from Ron or Rand's presidential platform it will be breaking forum guidelines if we discuss or support such a policy.

    2. If Trump proposes a policy that is anti-liberty we will be restricted from criticizing it and organizing against it.

    If that becomes the policy, which I do not believe it will, it would mean the death of RPF as a useful tool for advancing liberty which I assume is your intention.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  21. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritOf1776_J4 View Post
    Uhm.

    We use to have plans to proselyte both sides. You do your thing we'll do our thing. Take over both parties, etc.
    • Yeah but then a non establishment candidate came in and got 2b in free tv, and said the establishment is bad even the the liberty people were establishment to this outsider..



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  23. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    So you are saying:

    1. If Trump wins and implements a policy from Ron or Rand's presidential platform it will be breaking forum guidelines if we discuss or support such a policy.

    2. If Trump proposes a policy that is anti-liberty we will be restricted from criticizing it and organizing against it.

    If that becomes the policy, which I do not believe it will, it would mean the death of RPF as a useful tool for advancing liberty which I assume is your intention.
    There is an existing policy about Trump support. You will need to ask Bryan if you don't understand.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  24. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by younglibertarian View Post
    I wasn't saying that there shouldn't be a official site viewpoint. In fact I am in agreement that Donald Trump is not a candidate who represents the liberty movement. I don't support Donald Trump or post on his behalf. In fact as you can see above in this thread I appose Mr. Trump.

    However when people on this site are supporting him that is not a valid reason to censor the post. I would say the liberty movement should be allowed to have disagreements.

    I agree with the fact that we should be a forum that maintains a narrative. But how can we do so with so many disagreements within the movement?
    Read my comments again.

    The reason a site which is dedicated to giving alternative points of view a place where they can be heard might censor some input is simple. If it does not, the powers that be need only hire a hundred full time spammers and those alternative viewpoints will be drowned out within the day--and forevermore. If forum slide is a term you are unfamiliar with, you might consider getting familiar with it so that you can continue to participate in this conversation in an intelligent manner. These things are a genuine concern.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    the forum snitchers and flaggers got their wish and my thread was merged into the larger one.
    And this is a major affront to your Constitutional rights because...?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 05-02-2016 at 02:29 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  25. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    So you are saying:

    1. If Trump wins and implements a policy from Ron or Rand's presidential platform it will be breaking forum guidelines if we discuss or support such a policy.

    2. If Trump proposes a policy that is anti-liberty we will be restricted from criticizing it and organizing against it.

    If that becomes the policy, which I do not believe it will, it would mean the death of RPF as a useful tool for advancing liberty which I assume is your intention.
    Any time you try to draw guide lines from Ron or Rand to Trump that is promotion since this is a Ron Paul website. If you add neo to the names so people understand that Trump is not part of the revolution because for one thing the revolution will not be televised. Trumps campaign logo should say as seen on TV.

  26. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    So you are saying:

    1. If Trump wins and implements a policy from Ron or Rand's presidential platform it will be breaking forum guidelines if we discuss or support such a policy.

    2. If Trump proposes a policy that is anti-liberty we will be restricted from criticizing it and organizing against it.

    If that becomes the policy, which I do not believe it will, it would mean the death of RPF as a useful tool for advancing liberty which I assume is your intention.
    Hah. That's ALL he's saying, ALL day, EVERY day. Funny how he's cool with chasing down anything Trump and bashing it as Trump support while hiding behind whatever crusade it is that he claims, as needed, per post.

    To the other inane posts in this thread, the sub forum is "2016 Presidential Election, GOP & Dem"

    Trump is the headliner for this sub forum content. What is the dysfunction that spawns this behavior dictating that posting about Trump in this sub forum is illegal while beating posters about the face and head with a baseball bat?

    Start a "I Hate Trump/Never Trump/Latest Trump Hate In The News" sub forum and good luck with that.

    I'm interested in Trump because he's the only candidate who advocates a FED audit. The battle with the FED was RP's #1 issue. Ron served on the House Financial Services Committee. I have saved every debate he had from that position with Greenspan and other FED officials. He used that venue to educate but, unfortunately, was never able to accomplish a FED audit and an audit of the gold in Fort Knox, nor any of the other Federal Reserve/currency Bills he introduced over the years.

    Audit The FED! There is no more important first step to Liberty in the USA, something we've not had for over a century of FED control. Ron knows it. I know it. IMO, Trump is the only hope to see it happen. I don't give a rat's butt who disagrees with that.

  27. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    Nothing says liberty more than a giant wall and bigger police state.

    I actually don't care if people here support Trump. Just don't expect glowing praise when you post about him.

    EXACTLY - "Supporting" Trump was a pragmatic choice for me at some point.
    (Boom - when Rand dropped out, it was pretty much over.) Now, I look
    forward to the remaining great fun for the next four years. If it's a train-
    wreck, it might even help future anti-status quo candidates.

    I have not given up on Liberty, but I've completely given up on electing
    a Liberty POTUS in 2016! It's way too late and if the USSA maintains current
    heading and speed, well I think we all know that grinding sound is the
    social/economic ice berg.

    I'm betting it's either Clinton or Trump for the next POTUS. Who knows
    DJ Trump for sure; some say a benevolent dictator is the best sauce...

    But (OP) please, Libertarians for Trump just sounds so wrong to me.
    While Trump may have some valid Libertarian ideas, they have a lot of
    totalitarian company in there judging by the things he talks about.

    The concept of "Libertarians for Trump" is yet another oxymoron and it
    won't help the LP get through the next election cycle with an apparent
    "lower LP turnout" and depending on state rules; this "support" may
    even make ballot access even more difficult for the LP in the future!
    (I’ve seen the battle to get on an LP ballot in IL for committeemen, but
    |I’ll will be voting for Trump in November – Sorry LP, not this time.)

    Sore loser laws, etc. keep Trump off both the LP primary and general
    election ballot in all states. It would be great if Trump adopted LP
    solutions, but if he starts an extreme shift to Liberty, he would "not
    be electable..." according to the MSM, like they said about Ron Paul.

    At this point, the primaries are almost DONE, the choices are few and
    mostly unpleasant including the pros/cons of staying home on election day,
    voting the LP candidate, or voting for what will probably boil down to that
    looming choice of either Clinton or Trump in November 2016.

    (Did I miss a glowing review of another preferred GOP or better yet, an LP
    candidate that has any chance of getting over 3% of the vote in November?)

    Talking about these unfolding political shenanigans 2016 is fun sport
    with plenty of poop to shovel and for all to enjoy. I like Trump and can't
    wait to see the great wall, deportations and all the happy, prosperous
    Americans. (I’m stocking up on Popcorn and "Shredded Cheese" 'cause
    I don't want to be forced to grate again.)

    RPF and the LP should be watching the dynamics, techniques used by these
    candidates and observe the pollsters and MSM worm along manipulating the hope
    and hate attitudes of JQ Public. Too many crazy people and guns out there!

    Many are becoming aware of the devilish protection systems leading up to that
    last Twilight Zone stop before SOME RANDOM POTUS will be ultimately named by
    the Electoral College. (AZ and CO were previews for Trump where he won, but lost!)

    Discuss and learn my Liberty leaning friends, or it will just go the same way again,
    NEXT TIME, EVERY TIME.

  28. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Bossobass View Post
    I'm interested in Trump because he's the only candidate who advocates a FED audit. The battle with the FED was RP's #1 issue. Ron served on the House Financial Services Committee. I have saved every debate he had from that position with Greenspan and other FED officials. He used that venue to educate but, unfortunately, was never able to accomplish a FED audit and an audit of the gold in Fort Knox, nor any of the other Federal Reserve/currency Bills he introduced over the years.

    Audit The FED! There is no more important first step to Liberty in the USA, something we've not had for over a century of FED control. Ron knows it. I know it. IMO, Trump is the only hope to see it happen. I don't give a rat's butt who disagrees with that.
    Then does that make you a Cruz supporter as well?

    "I strongly support auditing the Fed. Indeed, I was an original co-sponsor of Ron Paul’s Audit the Fed bill. Unfortunately, it was clear early on that yesterday’s vote wasn’t going to succeed (it fell 7 votes short). And, at the same time that the vote was scheduled, I had longstanding commitments to be in New Hampshire — for a Second Amendment rally, and a 1500- person State of the Union town hall. If my vote would have made a difference in it passing, I would have cancelled my campaign events to be there. Because the vote was not going to succeed, I honored my commitments to be with the men and women of New Hampshire. As President, I look forward to signing Audit the Fed legislation into law." - Ted Cruz

  29. #175
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  30. #176
    That is a point to consider. This is a Trump/GOP sub forum. Should pro-trump talk be allowed here? Maybe just limit it on other sections of the forum?



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  32. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by younglibertarian View Post
    That is a point to consider. This is a Trump/GOP sub forum. Should pro-trump talk be allowed here? Maybe just limit it on other sections of the forum?
    Now that the thread was combined with another thread on the topic, so we don't have to repeat ourselves and get deja vu all over again, are we sure there's still a problem?

    Do you consider the OP's 'oh my little thread is now just the tail end of a big thread' whine to be something actually worth addressing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  33. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by younglibertarian View Post
    That is a point to consider. This is a Trump/GOP sub forum. Should pro-trump talk be allowed here? Maybe just limit it on other sections of the forum?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan View Post
    NOTE: This is the official evaluation thread on this candidate. Previously developed points in other threads can be posted here. Assistance in aggregating points for each section is appreciated. Non-constructive posts may be deleted.

    This thread is intended to be a collection point of the strong pros and cons of any potential liberty candidate / campaign that is being discussed / promoted on the forum. You are welcome to post both positive and not-so-positive attributes about the candidate as they related to their position on supporting liberty as well as issues relating to their campaign. The most important information may be aggregated in this top post for easy reference.

    Candidate Name: Donald Trump
    Office Sought: President of the United States
    Website: https://www.donaldjtrump.com
    Social Media:
    https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump
    https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump
    https://www.instagram.com/realdonaldtrump

    Candidate Profile: On the Issues
    Civil Liberties: F
    Constitutional Issues: F
    Economic Issues: C
    Foreign Policy: F
    Social Issues: C
    Overall Issues Rating: F


    Race Profile: Competition & Demographics
    Incumbent:Barack Obama
    Other Primary Candidates: Ted Cruz, John Kasich
    Non-Incumbent Candidates from Other Parties: Hillary Clinton, Gary Johnson, John McAfee, Bernie Sanders
    Relevant poll numbers:
    Overall Race Profile Rating: B

    Miscellaneous Pros/Cons
    Key strong points:

    Unknown points for further research:

    Possible weak points: character

    Possible deal breakers:

    The applied analysis goes well beyond a simple libertarian “purity test” as we understand the potential value of supporting an imperfect candidate who can still be of value to our Mission. We understand the positive changes that Trump can bring and have considered these elements with great care. We have also looked into the down sides as well and evaluated them along with the risks and unknowns. From this we are able to make a full informed evaluation that considers all elements.

    The conclusion of our analysis shows there are reasons why Trump campaign should not be supported at any level. The sites final determination is a result of some of Trumps extreme positions against liberty, his power and influence, his predatory alpha-style tactics and his drive to get his way, which in total, is a potentially dangerous combination with the office of the presidency.

    Of course, it is impossible to predict what Trumps behavior and actions will be once in the White House, and speculation of any specific wrong-doing would be fruitless, but the concerns are enough for us to withhold any support for Trump as some form of “defense candidate”, supporting the lessor of two evils or hoping for some side benefit from him winning the presidency.

    It is understood that some people may not share this concern and still see value in supporting Trump in some capacity, this is understood. While we can amicably agree on differences we do not want to be responsible for supporting what may prove to be a very bad outcome that was reasonably perceivable up front.


    Overall Rating: Non-Supporting

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-Trump-(POTUS)
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  34. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by younglibertarian View Post
    That is a point to consider. This is a Trump/GOP sub forum. Should pro-trump talk be allowed here? Maybe just limit it on other sections of the forum?
    The Mods have asked for no promotion of current candidates- members may discuss but please do NOT promote.

    Those who do promote are breaking the forum rules.

    Unfortunately, when called on it or shown opposing views, then the opposition to Trump promotion are called SJWs, communists, Cruz lovers, etc. and are flamed as the evil ones.
    There is no spoon.

  35. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by younglibertarian View Post
    That is a point to consider. This is a Trump/GOP sub forum. Should pro-trump talk be allowed here? Maybe just limit it on other sections of the forum?
    You are a new member so plz just read Bryan's stickied post

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