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Thread: If Trump was really a racist, would Ben Carson have endorsed him?

  1. #31
    I don't care which of them is racist, Christian, old, left-handed, misogynist, or any number of things. I care whether or not they will impose those views on us via legislation/executive order.

    And yeah, as others have explained, "I have a black friend!" doesn't automatically make you not racist.
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    People will make the comparison regardless when there is none. Carson is a prominent national figure, from a competing campaign, for which Trump held a press conference for his endorsement. As opposed to Duke, Trump did not even know he was endorsed by Duke when asked the question and then disavowed the endorsement.
    And yet Trump seemed to know exactly who Duke was when he denounced him in 1991 and again in 2000. Along comes 2016 and we are supposed to believe that Trump no longer recognized the man?

    Is Trump a liar or just senile?

    Why would either of those options make a good President?



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    And yet Trump seemed to know exactly who Duke was when he denounced him in 1991 and again in 2000. Along comes 2016 and we are supposed to believe that Trump no longer recognized the man?

    Is Trump a liar or just senile?

    Why would either of those options make a good President?
    Do you even realize you are using the same baseless race baiting tactics of the left and the media have used in the past against the Ron and Rand? You could practically remove Trump from your post and insert Rand or Ron and newsletters, CRA, etc.

    Never thought I would see the day that it would be used here rather than debate his policy positions. It reeks of desperation.

    Evidently Ron agrees.

    Ron Paul: The Trump KKK Controversy Is A Media Plant
    http://dailycaller.com/2016/03/01/ro...#ixzz42cy288We

    Former Rep. Ron Paul says the Donald Trump/Ku Klux Klan controversy “has to be a plant by the media.”

    In an interview with CNN’s Carol Costello on Tuesday, Paul said, “It’s interesting the media is able to create the issue, the Ku Klux Klan. You know, I don’t even know if there’s 100 people in the country that even know about it.”
    Costello asked Paul about his thoughts regarding Trump, David Duke, and the Ku Klux Klan, and Paul said, “Well, it’s pretty amazing. … Of course it has to be condemned, but why are people able to bring this up? No politician would want it to be brought up. So it has to be, you know, a plant by the media to instigate it and try to make accusations.”

    “Let’s blame them and let’s blame the media for tracking him. But the whole thing is is why did it come up? Sure, we can blame Donald Trump. I blame him for everything else, so blame him, but how did this become the issue of the day? The first question you asked on Super Tuesday is the Ku Klux Klan. This is unbelievable to me. This has been condemned, and they have been marginalized. Nobody cares about them. They’re evil, they’re monsters, and yet now it’s going to be the issue of the day,” Paul said.

    The issue of the day should instead be “how in the world do these things occur?” Paul asked. “Why aren’t we talking about the military industrial complex, the Federal Reserve, the deficits, the intrusion of our privacy and all the intrusions of our liberties, which are never touched? The protectionism that’s going on and presented, this socialism versus national populism — those are the issues, but today it’s the Ku Klux Klan.”
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Do you even realize you are using the same baseless race baiting tactics of the left and the media have used in the past against the Ron and Rand? You could practically remove Trump from your post and insert Rand or Ron and newsletters, CRA, etc.

    Never thought I would see the day that it would be used here rather than debate his policy positions. It reeks of desperation.

    Evidently Ron agrees.

    Ron Paul: The Trump KKK Controversy Is A Media Plant
    http://dailycaller.com/2016/03/01/ro...#ixzz42cy288We
    I am just as rational as I have been since 2007. You on the other hand have completely lost your mind. To me, this is 100% proof that Trump rots the brain. If you will try using your words and actually reading what I wrote (I know, that is so very hard for you) then you would see that I in no way, shape, or form implied or indicated that Trump is a racist. For the record, I do not believe Trump is a racist, I believe that he is cynically using racists to get himself elected. In fact I demonstrated conclusively that he was either lying or senile, and the way I formed the argument, the fact of whether he is or is not a racist was left completely irrelevant.

    I do understand that basic English comprehension becomes problematic for Trumpaloompas. Y'all have proven time and time again that supporting that guy totally rots the brain, but what I wrote should have been accessible to your average 3rd grader. You people are reaching new lows every day in your desperation to support an authoritarian tyrant and convince those of us who still have brains that this will somehow be good for liberty.

    Now if you are done swatting down your own strawmen, you may proceed to address what I actually said....providing that you are capable of at least a 3rd grade reading comprehension and can actually comprehend what i wrote.
    Last edited by GunnyFreedom; 03-11-2016 at 05:18 PM.

  7. #35
    Just so everything knows what Kahles and Gunny are talking about

    Trump said this about David Duke in 1991

    King, Nov. 19, 1991: Did the David Duke thing bother you? Fifty-five percent of the whites in Louisiana voted for him.

    Trump: I hate —

    King: Four hundred New Yorkers contributed.

    Trump: I hate seeing what it represents, but I guess it just shows there’s a lot of hostility in this country. There’s a tremendous amount of hostility in the United States.

    And in 2000

    Lauer, Feb. 14, 2000: When you say the party is self-destructing, what do you see as the biggest problem with the Reform Party right now?

    Trump: Well, you’ve got David Duke just joined — a bigot, a racist, a problem. I mean, this is not exactly the people you want in your party. Buchanan’s a disaster as we’ve, you know, covered. Jesse’s a terrific guy who just left the party. And he, you know, it’s unfortunate, but he just left the party. He’s going to be doing his Independence Party from Minnesota.

    Also you have this about Trump and the reform party

    How Roger Stone and Donald Trump destroyed George W. Bush’s potential rivals in 2000 is less well known. That year, George W. Bush faced two known threats, and Roger Stone was tasked with neutralizing them: Pat Buchanan, whose 1992 run nearly crippled Bush’s father in the primaries; and Ross Perot’s Reform Party, which drained enough votes in ’92 and ’96 to ensure Clinton victories.

    So in the lead-up to the 2000 election, Roger Stone cleverly cajoled Pat Buchanan into taking control of Perot’s Reform Party, then used his friend Donald Trump to run a rival campaign against Buchanan for the Reform Party candidacy—only to drop out of the race, and attack Buchanan’s Reform Party as a cesspool full of Hitler lovers and racists. Stone inserted moles like William Von Raab, secretly funded by Trump, into Buchanan’s campaign, according to the Village Voice.

    The operation wound up destroying the Reform Party’s brand and burying it for good, stinking it up too much for a late entry by Ross Perot. The Reform Party’s chairman, Pat Choate, called the “Trump/Stone operation” a “Republican dirty trick” meant to “disgust people and drive them away from the Reform Party. They were doing everything in their power to make a mess.”

    The point, however, is that it worked: The Reform Party and Pat Buchanan caused no damage whatsoever to George W. Bush’s election bid in 2000, unlike Ralph Nader’s effect on Al Gore’s run.

    There's more to this story, including the fact that Ross Perot turned his back on Pat over Israel and sought to destroy him. But this is part of what happened in 2000.

    Even the most optimistic view of Trump pales behind what Pat Buchanan could have done in a fair fight.

    http://www.philstockworld.com/2015/0...er-stone-show/

    More on the story:
    http://www.villagevoice.com/news/the...-house-6407173

    and:

    http://www.independentpoliticalrepor...rm-party-race/

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    I am just as rational as I have been since 2007. You on the other hand have completely lost your mind. To me, this is 100% proof that Trump rots the brain. If you will try using your words and actually reading what I wrote (I know, that is so very hard for you) then you would see that I in no way, shape, or form implied or indicated that Trump is a racist. For the record, I do not believe Trump is a racist, I believe that he is cynically using racists to get himself elected. In fact I demonstrated conclusively that he was either lying or senile, and the way I formed the argument, the fact of whether he is or is not a racist was left completely irrelevant.

    I do understand that basic English comprehension becomes problematic for Trumpaloompas. Y'all have proven time and time again that supporting that guy totally rots the brain, but what I wrote should have been accessible to your average 3rd grader. You people are reaching new lows every day in your desperation to support an authoritarian tyrant and convince those of us who still have brains that this will somehow be good for liberty.

    Now if you are done swatting down your own strawmen, you may proceed to address what I actually said....providing that you are capable of at least a 3rd grade reading comprehension and can actually comprehend what i wrote.
    Exactly Gunny.
    War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by bubbleboy View Post
    Ever heard of 'House Maid'?
    LOL Negging people because they won't worship your boy Trump eh? Typical for you lot.
    http://glenbradley.net/share/aleksan...nitsyn_4-t.gif “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    LOL Negging people because they won't worship your boy Trump eh? Typical for you lot.
    Not really. I generally don't neg unless negged.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by misterx View Post
    Not really. I generally don't neg unless negged.
    I was talking to bubbleboy, and I have received my share of negs from all of you Trumpaloompas.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    I was talking to bubbleboy, and I have received my share of negs from all of you Trumpaloompas.
    lol at least you came up with a funnier name than **********s. That one was getting old.



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  14. #41
    There is a hierarchy:

    **********s
    --Trumpsuckers
    ----Trumpaloompas
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Define racist.
    This will need to defined by those calling Trump "racist", see news headlines copied below.

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    I don't care if he is a racist. It's mostly that he is an establishment-authoritarian that bothers me.
    If Trumpster is establishment, why both GOP/Dem/neocon estblishments are peeing in their pants in dspair/fear?
    Authoritarian he could be and probably would lean towards being if won.

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbleboy View Post
    Ever heard of 'House Maid'?

    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Trump was never racist. He pretends to be racist in order to get racists to vote for him. That's even worse IMO. Carson was this cycle's token negro.
    Carson has been called such terms by some Obama supporters/left wing types but on the Right he is highly respected, upright role model.
    Need to learn more about facts fueling such characterizations for once GOP pack leaders like Ben Carson/Herman Cain.


    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Racist? Is this really an issue in the election in 2016? Jesus Christ, please save us.
    It apparetly is at least for some:

    Watch Mac Miller 'Whitesplain' to 'Racist F--kwad' Donald TrumpRollingStone.com‎ - 1 day ago

    Of course, Donald Trump's a racist, but Clinton and Sanders are wise enough to know slinging that mud will only make ...Salon‎ - 2 days ago

    Rapper Mac Miller: 'Racist' Trump Wants to 'Make America White Again'Breitbart News‎ - 1 day ago

    John Legend (@johnlegend)
    47 mins ago - View on Twitter
    Yes, Trump trolls. I'm the real racist.


    Here Are 9 Examples Of Donald Trump Being Racist
    www.huffingtonpost.com/.../donald-trump-racist-ex...
    The Huffington Post
    Feb 29, 2016 -


    'SNL' parody: Racists for Trump - CNN Video - CNN.com
    www.cnn.com/.../snl-donald-trump-parody-ad-ra...CNN
    5 days ago
    Just Call Trump a Racist - Gawker
    gawker.com/just-call-trump-a-racist-1763944273
    Gawker
    2 days ago

    Hillary Clinton Calls Donald Trump a RACIST... And Trump ...
    www.thepoliticalinsider.com/hillary-clinton-calls-donald-trump-a-racist-a...


    Quote Originally Posted by misterx View Post
    It wouldn't surprise me. Strategically it makes sense to deflect the racism charge that the Democrats always use, and they will triple down on it with Trump. It also could help somewhat with taking Michigan.
    Dems usually excel in skin color politics so you may have a point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    I have a better question. Have the forums really devolved so much to have a thread with such a stupid question?
    Can you elaborate a bit why this question is "stupid" ?
    Do you believe race is not a major factor in US politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertas Aut Mortis View Post
    You should read "The Strange Career of Jim Crowe", racism has nothing to do with advocating for the political benefit of others. You can be racist and advocate for the benefit of minorities if it helps you politically (Johnson) of you can be a minority and vote for or advocate for racists if they will benefit you (Johnson again)...but there are many examples in the book, I recommend it.
    Will try to read it but valid argument you made.



    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Thread title is a blatant non sequitur. It does not follow that Trump's status as a racist or a not-racist would necessarily have any impact whatsoever on Carson's endorsement or not-endorsement of Trump.
    Probably so. But I do not assume that US politics and voters choices are logical.
    In fact quite often, they are not. This is an observational question taking into account various perceptions that play a part in US elections and to speculate about motivations of Carson, Trump.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    If Trumpster is establishment, why both GOP/Dem/neocon estblishments are peeing in their pants in dspair/fear?
    Authoritarian he could be and probably would lean towards being if won.
    He's "outside his lane." You have establishmentarian politicians who take bribes from the oligarchs to do their bidding, and you have establishmentarian oligarchs that pay bribes to the politicians to do their bidding. Trump is an establishmentarian oligarch pretending to run as an anti-establishment politician. He's cutting into the politicians profits by cutting out the bribe taking middlemen.

    Carson has been called such terms by some Obama supporters/left wing types but on the Right he is highly respected, upright role model.
    Need to learn more about facts fueling such characterizations for once GOP pack leaders like Ben Carson/Herman Cain.
    The ease and readiness with which some Trump supporters trot out these despicable terms disturbs me.

    Probably so. But I do not assume that US politics and voters choices are logical.
    In fact quite often, they are not. This is an observational question taking into account various perceptions that play a part in US elections and to speculate about motivations of Carson, Trump.
    Neither the voters nor the politicians have to behave logically for logic to describe their actions and reactions. Any given action may be wholly illogical, and yet logic can be used to describe what happened and why. Say a woman freaks out emotionally because a man gives her roses. This is not a logical reaction, however via the application of deductive reasoning we might learn that roses were her mother's favorite flower, and when her mother passed the funeral home was inundated with roses and therefore she will forever associate roses with her deceased mother. Illogical action --> explained logically.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    I was talking to bubbleboy, and I have received my share of negs from all of you Trumpaloompas.
    Come on man, I don't know what you think you know about Trump, but i know the guy. I have seen his true intentions with my minds eye.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    And yet Trump seemed to know exactly who Duke was when he denounced him in 1991 and again in 2000. Along comes 2016 and we are supposed to believe that Trump no longer recognized the man?

    Is Trump a liar or just senile?

    Why would either of those options make a good President?
    @RonPaulGeorge&Ringo is back at it again, negging anyone who refuses to worship his idol messiah Trump.
    http://glenbradley.net/share/aleksan...nitsyn_4-t.gif “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  19. #46
    I couldn't care less if Donald Trump is a racist or not (I don't think he is, he thinks in terms of who is an obstacle and who isn't, racial makeup of said persons largely being incidental), and I'll tell you right now, the people that are going to elect him don't give a rat's ass either. Trump will either be horrible at worst or slightly better than Obama at best, and Carson endorsing him has little bearing on that, nor the racial views of Trump or anyone else for that matter.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    And yet Trump seemed to know exactly who Duke was when he denounced him in 1991 and again in 2000. Along comes 2016 and we are supposed to believe that Trump no longer recognized the man?

    Is Trump a liar or just senile?

    Why would either of those options make a good President?
    Since you are clearly too much of a coward to make this accusation in public, and also obviously incapable of comprehending simple English, you will probably be incapable of noticing that I have made no charges one way or the other regarding racism or the lack thereof. I was addressing the fact that Trump was either lying outright, or suffering from some kind of amnesia stemming from senile dementia.

    I do not expect Trump supporters like yourself to understand the difference, so I totally get why you are confused, but really, if you are incapable of comprehending basic elementary English, do you really think you should be passing judgement on those who have actually mastered the language?

    Perhaps you can explain for the class, @RonPaulGeorge&Ringo -- exactly what part of my quoted post you think qualifies as "race baiting" eh?
    Last edited by GunnyFreedom; 03-12-2016 at 02:18 AM.
    http://glenbradley.net/share/aleksan...nitsyn_4-t.gif “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post

    Will try to read it but valid argument you made.
    Absolutely, I'll forwarn you, it is definitely written in a pro-Government Solution manner....but if you are strong willed enough to look past it's progressive leanings, it does dwell into some very good history of racial history. It goes past the "white southerner=bad", and it explores paternalism, northern hypocrisy, imperialism as a factor of legitimacy, ect ect, and it finds that perhaps the commonality of WW2 started the end of Jim Crowe.

    I enjoyed the read, even if the narrative was bias, its definitely one of the better books i've read on the subject.



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