Making America into a taxpayer funded maternity ward for illegal aliens

[BSWPaulsen]

That IS funny!
after all, you can't spell "Liberty" without "I, N, S"!

We're on a forum dedicated to a man that ran on an immigration platform advocating enforcing the laws on the books. That's a far cry from open borders, but yet we have plenty of those "plants" here.

Are you one of those plants?

[otherone]

We're on a forum dedicated to a man that ran on an immigration platform advocating enforcing the laws on the books. That's a far cry from open borders, but yet we have plenty of those "plants" here.

Are you one of those plants?

I'm a "Let's not fluff the government any bigger than it already is", plant.
Are YOU one of those government fluffing plants?
And stop stealing my clever memes. .

[BSWPaulsen]

I'm a "Let's not fluff the government any bigger than it already is", plant.
Are YOU one of those government fluffing plants?
And stop stealing my clever memes. .

Nah. Keeping others out, gaining power over those that want government to take care of them, and shrinking the government US citizens have to deal with is the name of my game. A harder version of what Ron Paul ran on, to be sure, but one with fewer teat suckers to deal with when push inevitably comes to shove.

[helmuth_hubener]

Not to be pedantic, but what does that mean?

It would generally be thought of as being a member of a religious body or association, attending religious worship services, and adhering to various standards and expectations of excellence in your private and public conduct.

But, being a native English-speaker, I think you knew that.

I just thought this could be a fruitful line of thought to pursue together. If you're not comfortable doing so, that's fine.

[otherone]

It would generally be thought of as being a member of a religious body or association, attending religious worship services, and adhering to various standards and expectations of excellence in your private and public conduct.

But, being a native English-speaker, I think you knew that.

I just thought this could be a fruitful line of thought to pursue together. If you're not comfortable doing so, that's fine.

Thanks for the clarification. There are those who believe that everyone worships something. I'd prefer to avoid that debate.
I believe the foundation of moral governance is Objectivism.

[helmuth_hubener]

Seems to be quite a few "muh culture" plants infesting the Liberty Forest lately.

Like me. OK.

Forget about immigration for a minute. Just a minute. Let's talk about culture. Is it really true that you think that "culture" is worthless, irrelevant, and unimportant in the human experience? Is that actually your sincere position? Or is it something else?

This extreme reductionism I see sometimes from my fellow libertarians is disappointing. "Freedom's the answer; what's the question?" That's true as far as political policy is concerned, but freedom is not the answer for *life*! Come on! What kind of empty, narcissistic philosophy is that?

Freedom alone is not a worthy life goal. Freedom is a blank page. Freedom to do what? What kind of society do we want, a teeming horde of drug-addled, helpless, worthless, family-less losers? Or a life rich with beauty, vision, achievement, and pleasant sociality -- one full of men who through hard work and determination are being the heroes of their own life stories? It's all freedom. But one is bad, and the other good.

Yes, bad. It's OK as a libertarian to say things are bad. It really is! Being a crack-addicted loser is bad, it really is! Deal with it! Locking up the losers is not a solution, but nowhere in the Libertarian Bible does it say that we should seek a society that maximizes this tragic waste.

The culture that our forebears built for us -- our manners, our customs, our art, our science, the things we revere, the ugliness we choose to despise (is there any of that last even left, anymore?), these things *matter*! Obviously! It's shocking one would have to even state such an opinion in adult conversation! Indeed, culture, especially the core power-aspects of culture: marriage, family, and religion, these are the things that turn out, when all is said and done and you are lying on your death-bed, to matter the very most.

[otherone]

Like me. OK.

Forget about immigration for a minute. Just a minute. Let's talk about culture. Is it really true that you think that "culture" is worthless, irrelevant, and unimportant in the human experience? Is that actually your sincere position? Or is it something else?

This extreme reductionism I see sometimes from my fellow libertarians is disappointing. "Freedom's the answer; what's the question?" That's true as far as political policy is concerned, but freedom is not the answer for *life*! Come on! What kind of empty, narcissistic philosophy is that?

Freedom alone is not a worthy life goal. Freedom is a blank page. Freedom to do what? What kind of society do we want, a teeming horde of drug-addled, helpless, worthless, family-less losers? Or a life rich with beauty, vision, achievement, and pleasant sociality -- one full of men who through hard work and determination are being the heroes of their own life stories? It's all freedom. But one is bad, and the other good.

Yes, bad. It's OK as a libertarian to say things are bad. It really is! Being a crack-addicted loser is bad, it really is! Deal with it! Locking up the losers is not a solution, but nowhere in the Libertarian Bible does it say that we should seek a society that maximizes this tragic waste.

The culture that our forebears built for us -- our manners, our customs, our art, our science, the things we revere, the ugliness we choose to despise (is there any of that last even left, anymore?), these things *matter*! Obviously! It's shocking one would have to even state such an opinion in adult conversation! Indeed, culture, especially the core power-aspects of culture: marriage, family, and religion, these are the things that turn out, when all is said and done and you are lying on your death-bed, to matter the very most.

Very well written! I'm convinced... you can enjoy any culture you like, HH. I won't stand in your way!

[Zippyjuan]

What is "our culture" and what of "our culture" have we borrowed from other cultures? (most of it actually).

[johnwk]

Originally Posted by johnwk
Your insulting remarks do not advance your argument. You have made a number of unsubstantiated insulting remarks, which is exactly what adolescent trolls do.


JWK

Lol. Can't actually back up your arguments with facts so you'll just pretend to be insulted, eh Little Snowflake?

You are the one who posted a number of adolescent, unsubstantiated and insulting remarks, and never challenged what I have written.


JWK





American citizens are sick and tired of being made into tax-slaves to finance a maternity ward for the poverty stricken populations of other countries who invade our borders to give birth.

[johnwk]

.... so if somebody is a true Constitutionalist, the Federal Government doesn't have the power to regulate immigration.

What does that have to do with American Citizens being made into tax slaves to support the economic needs of millions of aliens who have invaded our borders?

What does that have to do with America being made into a taxpayer funded maternity ward for millions of foreigners who have invaded the borders of the United States?

JWK




They are not “liberals” or “progressives”. They are conniving Marxist parasites who use government force to steal and then enjoy the property which labor, business and investors have worked to create.




What does that crap have to do with

[pcosmar]

What does that crap have to do with

aw crap, it's been the welfare breeding grounds of enough white supremacists

doesn't affect me much,,

quit welfare
quit tax

[helmuth_hubener]

Thanks for the clarification. There are those who believe that everyone worships something. I'd prefer to avoid that debate.
I believe the foundation of moral governance is Objectivism.

Ahh, yes, you're an Objectivist! You had surely let us know this before, but I had forgotten (can't remember and keep track of everyone!). My apologies.

I have read all of Ayn's fiction and have found it excellent. I have gotten so much value from that. It's tremendous. There are, of course, very strong positions staked out regarding cultural superiorities and absolutes in her novels (heroism good, lack of ambition bad; tall, thin, blonde men good, fat slobs bad; classical music good, monkey jungle noise bad) and also in Objectivism itself, at least as taught by Ayn.

Anyway, as an Objectivist and likely (though not necessarily!) an atheist, you likely find worshiping in the framework of a traditional God-based religion just as ridiculous/unadvised as worshiping in a State-based quasi-religion. So the "oomph" factor of the Statolatry rhetorical tack isn't going to be there for you. For religious people, that "oomph" factor is the blasphemy angle: it is horribly blasphemous and a sin to worship anything other than God. So, if you can convince them that there is a significant component of their attitude towards the state which could be rightly categorized as worship, they may recoil from that and reconsider their views.

Of course, it will be basically impossible for you to make the case, if you're not a believer yourself. No credibility, you see.

[helmuth_hubener]

What is "our culture"

[PierzStyx]

You are the one who posted a number of adolescent, unsubstantiated and insulting remarks, and never challenged what I have written.


JWK

Thank you for proving my point. I originally talked about fake constitutionalists who called for immigration regulation even though it is unconstitutional.

You responded by getting offended, as if that excused your intellectual shallowness.

I provided you a direct link and actually asked you to show me in the Constitution itself wher eit authorizes the federal government to regulate immigration.

You again completely refuse to do so.


Thank you for proving how intellectually void and completely ignorant of The Constitution so-called "constitutionalists" who call upon government to regulate immigration really are. What you are is a Leftist progressive calling for an unconstitutional big government program to force other people to think, live, and act like you while violently attacking those who do not. You are not a minarchist, libertarian, or constitutionalist.

[helmuth_hubener]

Very well written! I'm convinced... you can enjoy any culture you like, HH. I won't stand in your way!

That's awesome, man! (I already knew that! )

Now what are your thoughts on culture? Don't you have any thoughts to share?

[PierzStyx]

So your civilization is a jumped up Medieval barbarian king who used violence to enforce his absolutist rule upon other people without a single care for their rights, a painting produced by theft, and a useless big government program produced by theft. Got it.

Thank you for admitting the fact that you care nothing about liberty but instead believe in monarchy, theft, and big government.


Problem is that is your culture, not mine. And it doesn't matter what mine is or what yours is because neither of us have the right to force it on others at the end of a truncheon.

[helmuth_hubener]

intellectual shallowness

Oh yes, we would not want to be intellectually shallow. Now would we.





Your posts have brought up just one question interesting enough for me to ask:

So your civilization is a Medieval king

Did you recognize the reliquary or have to look it up?

[Ender]

That's awesome, man! (I already knew that! )

Now what are your thoughts on culture? Don't you have any thoughts to share?

Here's mine:

[tod evans]

Now what are your thoughts on culture?

I like to visit other cultures and then come home....

I like other cultures to visit the Ozarks and then go home..

I don't think different cultures living in close proximity to each other is good for either culture.

[otherone]

Ahh, yes, you're an Objectivist! You had surely let us know this before, but I had forgotten (can't remember and keep track of everyone!). My apologies.

I have read all of Ayn's fiction and have found it excellent. I have gotten so much value from that. It's tremendous. There are, of course, very strong positions staked out regarding cultural superiorities and absolutes in her novels (heroism good, lack of ambition bad; tall, thin, blonde men good, fat slobs bad; classical music good, monkey jungle noise bad) and also in Objectivism itself, at least as taught by Ayn.

Anyway, as an Objectivist and likely (though not necessarily!) an atheist, you likely find worshiping in the framework of a traditional God-based religion just as ridiculous/unadvised as worshiping in a State-based quasi-religion. So the "oomph" factor of the Statolatry rhetorical tack isn't going to be there for you. For religious people, that "oomph" factor is the blasphemy angle: it is horribly blasphemous and a sin to worship anything other than God. So, if you can convince them that there is a significant component of their attitude towards the state which could be rightly categorized as worship, they may recoil from that and reconsider their views.

Of course, it will be basically impossible for you to make the case, if you're not a believer yourself. No credibility, you see.

You've made some interesting comments (complete with subtext). I'll try to address them. At least the overt ones.
My interest in Objectivism stems from the fact that commonality in society must stem from that which is tangibly accepted by everyone. The supernatural must be rejected in the social arena, as peoples' beliefs are personal, and varied. I respect anyone who's integrity causes them to act in concert with their values, religious or no, providing those values aren't forced on others. I have no interest in convincing anyone that they are idolators. It's not my place. If the clergy grows some balls and chooses God over Mammon by defying the Johnson Amendment, I'll have more respect for the institution.

In regards to culture (to combine your posts), I believe it is largely regional, as tod evans points out. In addition, it constantly changes. I don't believe it's governments' role to define, enforce, or play favorites.

[pcosmar]

Seems to be quite a few "muh culture" plants infesting the Liberty Forest lately.

Plants? Cultures?





anyone know of some Red, White and Blue fungus or mold?

the entire topic is a bit cheesy.

[helmuth_hubener]

You've made some interesting comments

Thanks!

In regards to culture (to combine your posts), I believe it is largely regional

It was better when it was.

You see, there didn't used to be a "mainstream." That happened in maybe the 1950s, when the media finally consolidated enough power (television, etc.) to begin to displace the organic American cultures that had existed previously. Cultures with an S.

So yes: bring back regionalism. Decentralize culture. Kill "mainstream culture." End it.

You can dampen it for you and yours by eliminating television, radio, internet, and other attack vectors from your home. That will at least create a buffer zone between you and the toxic stream of the anti-civilization left's Main.

[helmuth_hubener]

I like to visit other cultures and then come home....

I like other cultures to visit the Ozarks and then go home..

I don't think different cultures living in close proximity to each other is good for either culture.

Proximity + Diversity = ???

What? Open question

[otherone]

Thanks!



It was better when it was.

You see, there didn't used to be a "mainstream." That happened in maybe the 1950s, when the media finally consolidated enough power (television, etc.) to begin to displace the organic American cultures that had existed previously. Cultures with an S.

So yes: bring back regionalism. Decentralize culture. Kill "mainstream culture." End it.

You can dampen it for you and yours by eliminating television, radio, internet, and other attack vectors from your home. That will at least create a buffer zone between you and the toxic stream of the anti-civilization left's Main.

I largely agree with you, but I don't understand who your "bring back regionalism" directive is intended for.

[tod evans]

Proximity + Diversity = ???

What? Open question

$#@! diversity.

[tod evans]

Plants? Cultures?





anyone know of some Red, White and Blue fungus or mold?

the entire topic is a bit cheesy.

Have you been digging in the vegetable drawer of my fridge?

[phill4paul]

There's a simple way to deal with the mind $#@! that happens when you feel you are funding things that you are opposed to. Stop funding those things.

[helmuth_hubener]

I largely agree with you, but I don't understand who your "bring back regionalism" directive is intended for.

That is a great question! These are the kinds of lines I love to pursue! The kind of concrete thinking I enjoy. I'm all about actionability. "We've figured out and agree on X; so now what do we *do* about it?" That's the right attitude!

Now in a limited way, I thought I already did have some actionable advice: the creation of a buffer by decontaminating your home from mainstream media poison. And it was directed at everyone reading. This is something everyone can do, and do it immediately, unilaterally, and no one can stop you. No one has any veto power to overrule your action. That's a pretty sweet situation!

Now it's only a start, certainly, on a tiny, household level. If you agree, and it sounds like you do, maybe you have some more ideas for second and third steps to do even more and more effective things to re-regionalize this country of ours.

[devil21]

We're on a forum dedicated to a man that ran on an immigration platform advocating enforcing the laws on the books. That's a far cry from open borders, but yet we have plenty of those "plants" here.

Are you one of those plants?

In fairness, that kinda depends on when you asked him.

[Ender]

In fairness, that kinda depends on when you asked him.

Ron Paul, Jan 31. 2017:

The solution to really addressing the problem of illegal immigration, drug smuggling, and the threat of cross-border terrorism is clear: remove the welfare magnet that attracts so many to cross the border illegally, stop the 25 year US war in the Middle East, and end the drug war that incentivizes smugglers to cross the border.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/01/...solution-wall/

My solution, as well.