Venezuela Propaganda Debunked - People Are Against Coup

[angelatc]

Yes Lopez is a felon that was sentenced to 14 years back in 2014. As such he was disqualified for running for President in 2017. Well Duh.

"....a felon"

https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/13/ameri...cts/index.html

- Was re-elected mayor of Chacao with 81% of the vote and ended the term with a 92% approval rating.

- Chavez's government has banned hundreds of other politicians from parties opposed to Chavez.

February 13, 2014 - After at least three people are killed during an anti-government protest in Caracas, a Venezuelan court issues an arrest warrant for Lopez. Authorities claim he is responsible for the violence. He is charged with conspiracy, murder, and terrorism.

February 18, 2014 - López turns himself in.

February 19-20, 2014 - A hearing to charge López takes place. Prosecutors drop the charges of murder and terrorism.

April 4, 2014 - Venezuela's attorney general announces that López has been formally charged with public incitement, property damage, arson and conspiracy. Activists hold a protest in Caracas to declare López's innocence.

September 10, 2015 - Is convicted and sentenced to nearly 14 years in prison.


Nothing political about that, though.

I think your logical reasoning is what most of us call denial.

[AZJoe]

Please post an example of angela or me saying we should interfere.

If you oppose Washington' latest regime change operation, then we agree. But show me. Where are the posts opposing Pence phone call goading Guaido's announcement, the seizure of Venezuelan assets, the sanctions, backing of Guaido, the pressuring other nations to do same, the lobbying to withhold Venezuelan gold, the Trump tweet announcing Guaido? Where are these posts criticizing their moves and arguments for intervention?

It seems whenever anyone opposes this interventionist regime change, there is SS with some post shifting the focus away from the issue of interventionism and instead to argument of "Maduro bad" "election rigged" "Guaido is legitimate". These very same arguments Bolton and Pompeo and Co. are pushing to justify their regime change coup backing.

If SS really is against interventionism in Venezuela then come right out front and center and smack down Trump and Bolton and Pompeo. Hit them hard on this as they deserve. Let's see it. Don't try and hide behind this "I'm only pushing their arguments they use to justify intervention, not the intervention itself."

[AZJoe]

"....a felon"

https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/13/ameri...cts/index.html ...

April 4, 2014 - Venezuela's attorney general announces that López has been formally charged with public incitement, property damage, arson and conspiracy. ... September 10, 2015 - Is convicted and sentenced to nearly 14 years in prison.

Angela's posts are going into bizarro world now. Questions his felon status, while posting proof he is indeed a convicted felon - one who is convicted of a felony.

[Swordsmyth]

If you oppose Washington' latest regime change operation, then we agree. But show me. Where are the post opposing Pence phone call goading Guaido's announcement, the seizure of Venezuelan assets, the sanctions, backing of Guaido, the pressuring other nations to do same, the lobbying to withhold Venezuelan gold, the Trump tweet announcing Guaido? Where are these posts criticizing their moves and arguments for intervention?

It seems whenever anyone opposes this interventionist regime change, there is SS with some post shifting the focus away from the issue of interventionism and instead to argument of "Maduro bad" "election rigged" "Guaido is legitimate". These very same arguments Bolton and Pompeo and Co. are pushing to justify their regime change coup backing.

If SS really is against interventionism in Venezuela then come right out front and center and smack down Trump and Bolton and Pompeo. Hit them hard on this as they deserve. Let's see it. Don't try and hide behind this "I'm only pushing their arguments the use to justify intervention, not the intervention itself."

In almost every post I have made on the subject I say we should keep our hands off and do nothing.
There are plenty of people shouting us staying out of it I agree or don't argue with them about it but too many people are claiming that Chavez and Maduro are saints who never did anything wrong and that the people of Venezuela shouldn't overthrow the communist regime.

[Swordsmyth]

Angela's posts are going into bizarro world now. Questions his felon status, while posting proof he is indeed a convicted felon - one who is convicted of a felony.

By a Kangaroo court.

[Ender]

If you oppose Washington' latest regime change operation, then we agree. But show me. Where are the post opposing Pence phone call goading Guaido's announcement, the seizure of Venezuelan assets, the sanctions, backing of Guaido, the pressuring other nations to do same, the lobbying to withhold Venezuelan gold, the Trump tweet announcing Guaido? Where are these posts criticizing their moves and arguments for intervention?

It seems whenever anyone opposes this interventionist regime change, there is SS with some post shifting the focus away from the issue of interventionism and instead to argument of "Maduro bad" "election rigged" "Guaido is legitimate". These very same arguments Bolton and Pompeo and Co. are pushing to justify their regime change coup backing.

If SS really is against interventionism in Venezuela then come right out front and center and smack down Trump and Bolton and Pompeo. Hit them hard on this as they deserve. Let's see it. Don't try and hide behind this "I'm only pushing their arguments the use to justify intervention, not the intervention itself."

Exactly.

[angelatc]

Now this one is false. None of the members of the Constituent Assembly are appointed. They are all chosen by popular vote.

LOL @ popular vote. All the candidates were selected by the government.

The constitutional assembly, which only has candidates put forward by the government, “would mark the end of whatever is left of Venezuela's democracy and rule of law," said Francisco Monaldi, an economist and fellow in Latin American energy policy at Rice University’s Baker Institute for Public Policy.

So like I said, the president's party lost the majority in Parliament in an election. He responded by then creating a new body, having an election where all the candidates were known to support him, then taking away the powers of the Parliament that was actually elected.

[angelatc]

Angela's posts are going into bizarro world now. Questions his felon status, while posting proof he is indeed a convicted felon - one who is convicted of a felony.

Holy crap - you're not just in denial, you're also friggin blind.

[Ender]

LOL @ popular vote. All the candidates were selected by the government.



So like I said, the president's party lost the majority in Parliament in an election. He responded by then creating a new body, having an election where all the candidates were known to support him, then taking away the powers of the Parliament that was actually elected.

Ahhh- so the MSM is reliable when it posts propaganda that you approve of- I get it.

[Swordsmyth]

Ahhh- so the MSM is reliable when it posts propaganda that you approve of- I get it.

And communists are 100% trust worthy all the time- I get it.

[Swordsmyth]

Exactly.

How many time do I have to say we should stay out of it?

Just because Bolton and company are bad doesn't mean that Maduro is good or that the people of Venezuela shouldn't overthrow him.

[angelatc]

In almost every post I have made on the subject I say we should keep our hands off and do nothing.
There are plenty of people shouting us staying out of it I agree or don't argue with them about it but too many people are claiming that Chavez and Maduro are saints who never did anything wrong and that the people of Venezuela shouldn't overthrow the communist regime.

Don't forget that the uprisings are entirely orchestrated by the CIA. The frogs have been boiled. No way would trivial things like starvation and poverty drive them to protest in the streets. That's madness.

[AZJoe]

By a Kangaroo court.

Kangaroo court or not, legally he is a felon. Maybe he did maybe he didn't but legally he is a convicted felon. SS does nto know despite his professed magical insight that can say wth certainty that it is impossible that a radical leftist puppet of the NED could incite riots, commit arson or conspire. No that could never happen. It is ludicrous hubris for SS to think he knows all. We don't know, which is another reason why Washington should keep its hands out of Venezuela's internal politics.

But thanks for this great argument against Washington's regime change coup. I see how SS is such a strong advocate against interventionism.

[angelatc]

And communists are 100% trust worthy all the time- I get it.

People aren't really starving there. There's actually plenty of medicine in the hospitals. The millions of people who the media claims have fled? Actually just extended vacations, because they're all so very. very prosperous.

[Swordsmyth]

Don't forget that the uprisings are entirely orchestrated by the CIA. The frogs have been boiled. No way would trivial things like starvation and poverty drive them to protest in the streets. That's madness.

The US is the sole cause of the poverty and starvation, we also are responsible for the collectivos and everything else.

[Swordsmyth]

Kangaroo court or not, legally he is a felon. Maybe he did maybe he didn't but legally he is a convicted felon. SS does nto know despite his professed magical insight that can say wth certainty that it is impossible that a radical leftist puppet of the NED could incite riots, commit arson or conspire. No that could never happen. It is ludicrous hubris for SS to think he knows all. We don't know, which is another reason why Washington should keep its hands out of Venezuela's internal politics.

It is part of a pattern of behavior by Chavez and Maduro and every other communist dictator in history.
Technically we don't know all the details and that IS another reason we should stay out of it.

But thanks for this great argument against Washington's regime change coup. I see how SS is such a strong advocate against interventionism.

I only say we should stay out of it every time I post about it, that must prove I want to nuke Venezuela and occupy the ashes.

[angelatc]

Kangaroo court or not, legally he is a felon. Maybe he did maybe he didn't but legally he is a convicted felon.

Hugo Chavez was a convicted felon because he actually attempted a military coup, remember?

And besides, when did we all decide that being a felon should mean you can't run for office? I must have been absent that day.

[angelatc]

It is part of a pattern of behavior by Chavez and Maduro and every other communist dictator in history.
Technically we don't know all the details and that IS another reason we should stay out of it.


I only say we should stay out of it every time I post about it, that must prove I want to nuke Venezuela and occupy the ashes.

If we hadn't picked a side, or had picked the other side, the other half of the forums would be screaming that the CIA was running cover for the bankers and crabbing about how the Rothschild-controlled oligarchs were looting the country.

[specsaregood]

People aren't really starving there. There's actually plenty of medicine in the hospitals. The millions of people who the media claims have fled? Actually just extended vacations, because they're all so very. very prosperous.

When arguing with Anarchists, one must remember that their number one goal is for any government or society to collapse. So of course they are going to defend Maduro when his govt is on the verge of collapse. They don't want anybody to go in there and prop it up or replace it with another govt.

And no, we shouldn't do anything about it, but I'm not going to defend the douchebags that have driven it to collapse.

[Swordsmyth]

Hugo Chavez was a convicted felon because he actually attempted a military coup, remember?

And besides, when did we all decide that being a felon should mean you can't run for office? I must have been absent that day.

The leftarians want us to let all felons vote in spite of the fact that it will elect more communists.

I'm beginning to detect a pattern, whether it is conscious or unconscious I can't say in every case but it seems that leftarians want communists to win and stay in power.

[angelatc]

When arguing with Anarchists, one must remember that their number one goal is for any government or society to collapse. So of course they are going to defend Maduro when his govt is on the verge of collapse. They don't want anybody to go in there and prop it up or replace it with another govt.

And that's the rub. Either the USA moves to play a role in the succession, or we sit back and watch the Super Bowl while China and Russia take control.

[angelatc]

The leftarians want us to let all felons vote in spite of the fact that it will elect more communists.

I'm beginning to detect a pattern, whether it is conscious or unconscious I can't say in every case but it seems that leftarians want communists to win and stay in power.

I am pretty much a fan of not letting government stop people from running for office for any reason. Just now learning that some of us actually like it when the government pre-approves the candidates.

Heck, we're out there trying to get a 3rd candidate on the debate stages. What were we thinking?

[Swordsmyth]

When arguing with Anarchists, one must remember that their number one goal is for any government or society to collapse. So of course they are going to defend Maduro when his govt is on the verge of collapse. They don't want anybody to go in there and prop it up or replace it with another govt.

And no, we shouldn't do anything about it, but I'm not going to defend the douchebags that have driven it to collapse.

In this case it is the uprising that might complete the collapse and they want to see Maduro's communist regime survive.

I'm beginning to detect a pattern, whether it is conscious or unconscious I can't say in every case but it seems that leftarians and anarchists want communists to win and stay in power.

[specsaregood]

I am pretty much a fan of not letting government stop people from running for office for any reason. Just now learning that some of us actually like it when the government pre-approves the candidates.

Heck, we're out there trying to get a 3rd candidate on the debate stages. What were we thinking?

Indeed. I coulda sworn most people were happy to see James Traficant (felon) run for office even if they disagreed with his views.

[angelatc]

And no, we shouldn't do anything about it, but I'm not going to defend the douchebags that have driven it to collapse.

According to the leftists, we're the douchebags that have driven it to collapse.

[RonZeplin]

[AZJoe]

The US is the sole cause of the poverty and starvation, we also are responsible for the collectivos and everything else.

What it this hyperbole absurdum? To quote the SS - "Thank you for your deep philosophical insight and illuminating suggestions"

And quit confusing the government with the US. They are not the same. The government in Washington is not the US. In fact it is the greatest existential threat to the United States. Those who rightly criticize its antics are standing up and defending the US.

SS keeps getting triggered anytime there is criticism of the stupid, imperial, aggressive, totalitarian antics Washington commits. Pretending Washington is some angel. Can't criticise or SS gets triggered.
U.S. just had 17 armored vehicles, overhead helicopter, scores of agents armed with rifles, two armored amphibious vehicles to raid a journalist Roger Stone in the predawn hours in a residential neighborhood. This wasn;t Venezuela. This was the U.S. government. How quickly SS turns a blind eye.
Or how about the Bundy Ranch disaster and scores of other that, and hundreds more that never make the headlines.
On top of that it is the U.S. government that is aiding and enabling the Saudi bombing and starvation blockade of its neighbor.
It is the U.S. government unilaterally imposing economic warfare and economic blockading of Iran and calling for regime change or , bombing outright invasion of IRan.
We could go on and on - Washington deep state fabricating russiagate to manipulate elections.
Washington repeat political and electoral intervention in virtually every country in Latin America as well as SE Asia.
And then there is Syria, Ukraine, Georgia, Iraq, Afghanistan, - it is a never ending list.

[PAF]

...

Evidently one must be of age and not news worthy enough for everybody to see. I wanted to copy/paste to share elsewhere this is what I got:

[AZJoe]

According to the leftists, we're the douchebags that have driven it to collapse.

Yes we all know socialism is a horrible economic policy and leads to impoverishment for any nation that embraces it.

But why is anglea also a turning blind eye to the accelerants factors. So is anglea claiming sanctions, economic warfare, blockading, seizing assets, threatening countries not to do business, lobbying London to seize their gold, fostering violent regime change, funding covert ops via NGOs lioke NED and USAID, directly interfering in the politics - that all this can't possibly have any negative effect. These actions are like throwing gasoline on an already smoldering building.

We can't stop if other nations embrace socialist policies which includes most of Europe now - policies that U.S. itself is also embracing itself unfortunately.
But you can stop exacerbating the situation with interventionist policies, sanctions and economic warfare.

[AZJoe]

And that's the rub. Either the USA moves to play a role in the succession, or we sit back and watch the Super Bowl while China and Russia take control.

And there you have it. At least no more pretense. Directly advocating in favor of the Washington's regime change coup to appoint Guaido.
A coup which has absolutely nothing to do with free markets or socialism or elections.

So far, Washington's latest sponsored coup has already failed. The world has gotten wise to the antics.
Washington called on the Venezuela military to rise up and support Washington's pronouncements. The military opposes it.
Washington called on the masses to revolt. They didn't and overwhelmingly oppose it.
Yes Washington covert programs and NGOs like NED, USAID or Soros' Open Society and other works have fostered up small pockets. But despite all that covert interference in domestic politics , for decades now, it still fizzled out just like the prior regime change attempt.

Now if Washington does not like the fact that Russia and China are making trade deals with Venezuela regarding oil and gold, the proper response is to out compete freely and offer better trade options. It is not to counter such trade with use of force - threats, sanctions, sponsored coup attempts, economic blockades, seizing assets. All these things are anti-free market - the opposite of free market.

Washington's proper response should be to implement free market - open trade and let it flow: end sanctions, open trade, stop interfering in domestic politics, stop sponsoring regime change coups, stop the economic blockade, stop seizing assets, stop using SWIFT and dollar denominated banking as a weapon. And to become more competitive cut government, cut taxes, cut foreign interventionist spending boondoggles, cut regulation a, cut licensing, eliminate the deficit, diminish the debt, stop the boondoggles, get out of the way. That is the proper way to be competitive, not through use of force.