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Thread: Systemic Election Fraud?

  1. #1

    Systemic Election Fraud?

    Consider this anomaly. Close elections and recounts often have a lot of controversy surrounding newly found ballots, absentee ballots, provisional ballots, various uncounted ballots and very long timeframes to count and recount. But the vast majority of elections are settled when one candidate concedes, often on the night of the election. Are all of the votes really counted in those cases?

    How many times has a candidate conceded, only to be told weeks later, “we finally finished counting, and you really won”? Never? Any examples?

    The point is that through selective counting on the night of the election, the results could easily be skewed enough to convince one of the candidates to concede, thus ending the counting. How can it be that most elections are decided in a few hours after the polls close, yet when there is controversy, it takes weeks to count all of the various ballots?



    ———

    [Edit] Another avenue for systemic fraud:

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    And then there is the potential for fraud that comes from non-voted races or propositions. For example, a voter doesn’t like either candidate, and leaves it blank. That leaves the door wide open for ballot workers to fill it in for the voter.

    Even better when the decision is made to eliminate “none of the above” and write-in options from the ballot. It increases the odds that voters will leave items completely blank, and open to fraud.
    [Edit 2] Mail-in ballots:

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    I forgot mail-in ballots. As someone on TV mentioned today, people who open mail-in ballots have plenty of opportunity to either fill-in contests that were left empty, or damage ballots that will then need to be manually “copied”.
    Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 11-14-2018 at 08:15 PM.
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  3. #2
    In Georgia, Dougherty County, liberal stronghold.

    In Florida, Broward County, liberal stronghold.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
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    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  4. #3
    I gotta say, the more people who "lose faith in the process", the better.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

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  5. #4
    Who casts the votes means nothing.
    Who counts the votes means everything.
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  6. #5
    If your state touches a major body of water and there is a close election you may assume democrat voter fraud and be correct a minimum of the 90 to 99.9 percentile ea time .
    Do something Danke

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    I gotta say, the more people who "lose faith in the process", the better.

    ^^^^This^^^^

    May more and more people recognize what a sham the whole system is and has always been.

    As far as vote/election fraud goes, it has a very long and colorful history here in the US. It's highly doubtful that there have ever been many elections of any import that weren't tainted by such fraud to one degree or another. And, contrary to the popular fantasy around here lately, it has never been restricted to one "side" or the other.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    ...contrary to the popular fantasy around here lately, it has never been restricted to one "side" or the other.
    Men who seek power have no scruples. To expect anything more of them is to misunderstand their nature.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Men who seek power have no scruples. To expect anything more of them is to misunderstand their nature.

    More true words were never posted. I'd +rep you again if I could.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Consider this anomaly. Close elections and recounts often have a lot of controversy surrounding newly found ballots, absentee ballots, provisional ballots, various uncounted ballots and very long timeframes to count and recount. But the vast majority of elections are settled when one candidate concedes, often on the night of the election. Are all of the votes really counted in those cases?

    How many times has a candidate conceded, only to be told weeks later, “we finally finished counting, and you really won”? Never? Any examples?

    The point is that through selective counting on the night of the election, the results could easily be skewed enough to convince one of the candidates to concede, thus ending the counting. How can it be that most elections are decided in a few hours after the polls close, yet when there is controversy, it takes weeks to count all of the various ballots?
    Concessions shouldn't be legal, voter ID should be required, all counting and processing of ballots should have to take place in front of many witnesses, any ballot irregularities should disqualify the ballot completely and we should consider banning absentee ballots.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

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    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
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  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    contrary to the popular fantasy around here lately, it has never been restricted to one "side" or the other.
    Undoubtedly, but one side engages in far more of it than the other and is allowed to benefit from it far more, the oligarchs do have a preferred direction for things to go.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 11-13-2018 at 06:01 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #11
    Anarchy doesn't last and aristocracy doesn't respect the rights of the people, voting in a republic is the worst system imaginable......Except for all the others.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #12

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Undoubtedly, but one side engages in far more of it than the other and is allowed to benefit from it far more, the oligarchs do have a preferred direction for thing to go.

    I'd agree that the Dems are usually more crude and obvious about it. However, to believe that they engage in such fraud to any significantly greater degree than do Republicans is dangerously naive. You need to be on guard against all of the sociopaths, not just the ones you hate the most.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  16. #14
    I don’t believe in red vs blue like some of y’all.

    It’s clearly an in vs out big tent and any fraud is designed to put the “in crowd” in.
    No - No - No - No
    2016

  17. #15
    Big League Politics has obtained a photo showing four ballots with the exact same voter identifier in Alameda County, California.
    All four ballots say Count: 421, VBMP (Vote-by-mail-ballot) 164325, Extract 15. They are also labeled as “official ballots” for the general election in Alameda County for election day, Nov. 6 2018.
    Vice President and co-founder of Election Integrity Project California (EIPCa) Ruth Weiss examined the photo depicting the mail in ballots.
    “It does seem odd to me that the identifier on the left-hand side of the envelope is the same. That would imply not that this voter is registered four different times but that somehow four identical ballots were printed for a single voter. That would suggest a glitch with the vendor,” she told Big League Politics.


    James Bradley, a U.S. Senate candidate from California told Big League Politics that the state has passed a law allowing for mail-in and provisional ballots to be machine counted. Previously, the signatures on such ballots had to be individually verified in order for the ballots to be counted. Since the safeguard of signature verification was nullified, Democratic mail-ins and provisionals have vastly increased, according to Bradley.

    Thus, it is entirely possible that all four of these ballots were mailed in, run through a machine, and counted.
    LOOK:


    https://bigleaguepolitics.com/photo-...in-california/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Big League Politics has obtained a photo showing four ballots with the exact same voter identifier in Alameda County, California.
    All four ballots say Count: 421, VBMP (Vote-by-mail-ballot) 164325, Extract 15. They are also labeled as “official ballots” for the general election in Alameda County for election day, Nov. 6 2018.
    Vice President and co-founder of Election Integrity Project California (EIPCa) Ruth Weiss examined the photo depicting the mail in ballots.
    “It does seem odd to me that the identifier on the left-hand side of the envelope is the same. That would imply not that this voter is registered four different times but that somehow four identical ballots were printed for a single voter. That would suggest a glitch with the vendor,” she told Big League Politics.


    James Bradley, a U.S. Senate candidate from California told Big League Politics that the state has passed a law allowing for mail-in and provisional ballots to be machine counted. Previously, the signatures on such ballots had to be individually verified in order for the ballots to be counted. Since the safeguard of signature verification was nullified, Democratic mail-ins and provisionals have vastly increased, according to Bradley.

    Thus, it is entirely possible that all four of these ballots were mailed in, run through a machine, and counted.
    LOOK:


    https://bigleaguepolitics.com/photo-...in-california/
    Not to rain on anybody’s parade, but each voter in California will have multiple stubs like that depending upon how many items they have to vote on and how many pages it takes. Each page has it’s own stub on the top. IIRC, the right side of the stub will have something like A, B, C, D, etc. That part of the stub is not visible in the picture.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Concessions shouldn't be legal, voter ID should be required, all counting and processing of ballots should have to take place in front of many witnesses, any ballot irregularities should disqualify the ballot completely and we should consider banning absentee ballots.

    Put voting on the blockchain. Every legal registered voter would get a unique private key. This private key could confirm how they voted as it is recorded in the blockchain, time stamped so it can never be changed. Easy to get vote totals also.

    There have been many papers written on this. It's very doable.
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

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  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Not to rain on anybody’s parade, but each voter in California will have multiple stubs like that depending upon how many items they have to vote on and how many pages it takes. Each page has it’s own stub on the top. IIRC, the right side of the stub will have something like A, B, C, D, etc. That part of the stub is not visible in the picture.
    With all the proposed ballot amendments and people to vote on, our ballot did run four sheets this time.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
    Put voting on the blockchain. Every legal registered voter would get a unique private key. This private key could confirm how they voted as it is recorded in the blockchain, time stamped so it can never be changed. Easy to get vote totals also.

    There have been many papers written on this. It's very doable.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Sure, I'll admit that's amusing, who doesn't like XKCD. However we have had public/private key systems (Which is basically what blockchain is, along with an open time stamped database) protecting web services for a few decades, global banking relies on it, forex relies on it with their trillions a day in transactions. If we can secure the financial markets we can secure some votes.
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

    BTC: 1AFbCLYU3G1dkbsSJnk3spWeEwpqYVC2Pq

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    There would be a vast improvement in electronic voting reliability if it was all open source, and it has a few benefits over paper ballots if done right. Paper ballots do have the benefit that you can plainly see it, but they also have a few disadvantages.

    With open source anybody with the ability, which is a lot of people on both sides, would be able to verify how it all works and that there is no vote flipping or anything like that happening. The vote would be tied to a verifiable identity, and that identity could go back and review their votes to ensure they were counted properly.
    Last edited by dannno; 11-14-2018 at 11:25 AM.
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  25. #22
    And then there is the potential for fraud that comes from non-voted races or propositions. For example, a voter doesn’t like either candidate, and leaves it blank. That leaves the door wide open for ballot workers to fill it in for the voter.

    Even better when the decision is made to eliminate “none of the above” and write-in options from the ballot. It increases the odds that voters will leave items completely blank, and open to fraud.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  26. #23
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    Why do all the urban centers wait until the very end to submit their count? Maybe because they are tabulating how many they need to win?

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    And then there is the potential for fraud that comes from non-voted races or propositions. For example, a voter doesn’t like either candidate, and leaves it blank. That leaves the door wide open for ballot workers to fill it in for the voter.

    Even better when the decision is made to eliminate “none of the above” and write-in options from the ballot. It increases the odds that voters will leave items completely blank, and open to fraud.
    gives a new meaning to 'use it or lose it'
    Last edited by timosman; 11-14-2018 at 12:18 PM.



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  29. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by asurfaholic View Post
    I don’t believe in red vs blue like some of y’all.

    It’s clearly an in vs out big tent and any fraud is designed to put the “in crowd” in.

    'Red vs blue' is about placing red between blue as a buffer, but often that doesn't even work out.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Why do all the urban centers wait until the very end to submit their count? Maybe because they are tabulating how many they need to win?
    Just like they do in Congress on critical votes.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    And then there is the potential for fraud that comes from non-voted races or propositions. For example, a voter doesn’t like either candidate, and leaves it blank. That leaves the door wide open for ballot workers to fill it in for the voter.

    Even better when the decision is made to eliminate “none of the above” and write-in options from the ballot. It increases the odds that voters will leave items completely blank, and open to fraud.
    I hadn't considered that opening.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Consider this anomaly. Close elections and recounts often have a lot of controversy surrounding newly found ballots, absentee ballots, provisional ballots, various uncounted ballots...
    I forgot mail-in ballots. As someone on TV mentioned today, people who open mail-in ballots have plenty of opportunity to either fill-in contests that were left empty, or damage ballots that will then need to be manually “copied”.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  33. #29
    “The Department of Justice must move under the Voting Rights Act to do a full investigation of what happened, not only in Florida … but [on] what happened in Arizona,” said host Laura Ingraham on “The Laura Ingraham Show” on Wednesday morning.
    She summarized the “bizarre scenario” that unfolded in Arizona, in which the governor was elected handily by double digits, yet at the 11th hour the Republican senatorial candidate, Martha McSally, lost by a razor-thin margin to one of the most left-wing senatorial candidates in the state’s history, Kyrsten Sinema.

    As a case in point, Ingraham revealed that Martha McSally’s team told her over the weekend that “ballot collection” had taken place during Arizona’s election.


    The practice, which is now outlawed in the state, involves traveling to places such as retirement homes to gather up unmailed ballots to have them counted.
    Despite that, McSally conceded to Sinema on Twitter on Monday evening.


    More at: https://www.lifezette.com/2018/11/gi...ing-elections/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #30
    I have no doubt voter fraud is rampant, particularly with Democrats. This midterm has made it more clear than ever. The antics in Florida are especially disgusting.

    This isn't hard folks... voters should receive a receipt for their ballots with an anonymized token ID from which they can instantly verify on a public website that their ballots were correctly recorded. From there we would have indepent third party watch groups form that could statistically verify the results of every election simply by having people check their own results.

    If we stick to paper ballots, any ballot that is not properly filled out should not be eligible to be counted in any scenario what-so-ever. If you are too stupid to fill out your ballot, your vote shouldn't count. While we're on the subject, each section should have to be filled out or be considered invalid. A "none of the above" option would work too fine. It's too easy for poll workers to fill in empty sections with the candidates of their own choice.

    You should absolutely have to verify your citizenship status to vote. This should be the case everywhere.

    Voting rolls should automatically be scrubbed over time. Upon issuance of a death certificate, that person should be removed from all voting rolls automatically.

    Absentee / mail-in ballots should not be legal. They are too easy to manipulate. Hell, voting should take place on a single day. If you can't figure out how to make it to your voting place on time and wait a little while if need be, then don't vote.

    Vote counts / tallys should have to be reported on election night by a specific time. If not, your county doesn't get to contribute in the election. With consequences like that mistakes will not happen often. It's too easy right now for counties to lag their results so they know how many votes they need to steal a race. If vote totals are submitted prior to the official counts then at least you can't make up ballots out of thin air to meet the difference you might need to win a race.

    We've gone wrong by thinking that voting should be easy. Voting shouldn't be easy. That's not to say it should be made to be so difficult that people can't do it. But the easier it is to vote, the more likely there is fraud happening. I don't see anything wrong with people having to put a little bit of effort in to cast a vote.
    Last edited by fcreature; 11-16-2018 at 12:36 PM.

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