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Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
That's not what's absurd.
What's absurd is to think that if we voluntarily refuse to use a power that it will somehow create the precedent that it is unconstitutional and prevent others from using it and that depriving ourselves of power that our enemies use will enable us to take back control of our government.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
not a contention. fact. It is illegal for the American Executive to exercise legislative powers.
because our “enemies” violate the Constitution therefore we must also violate the Constitution?does nothing to prevent its use by our enemies
I’m sorry to have to be the one to explain to you that if government refrained from exercising unconstitutional powers, it would absolutely be more Constitutional.nor would our refraining from using it do so.
lol yes it is.It is not clear that it is unconstitutional
so because there is all this preexisting corruption we should double down on corruption ourselves. Otherwise the enemy will be even corrupt-er?and the current precedent is that it is Constitutional.
not power, “violation.”
it is already unconstitutional for the Executive to exercise Legislative power. No “precedent” needed.that it will somehow create the precedent that it is unconstitutional
Our obedience to uphold and defend the Constitution is not contingent on some imaginary future person’s disobedience.and prevent others from using it
not power, “violation.”and that depriving ourselves of power
Indeed, stopping the practice of violating the Constitution will in fact lead to a government that more closely obeys the Constitution.that our enemies use will enable us to take back control of our government.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
My premises are sound, my logic is unassailable, and my conclusions follow naturally from my arguments. Your repeated attempts to use propaganda and emotional extortion make me abandon logic and principle and join your Marxist Identity Political tribe have failed.
Re-reading your desperate attempts to make Ron Paul supporters abandon principles will not magically make my logic less sound.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Actually, you have repeatedly asserted that the only way to eventually end up with a Constitutional government in the future, is to continue to exercise all of these unconstitutional powers now.
You have cycled through a small handful of similar justifications as to WHY obeying the Constitution one day requires disobeying it today, but the commonalities in every description you gave were that 1: we HAVE to exercise these unconstitutional powers, and 2: if we don’t then we will never have the opportunity to obey the Constitution in the future.
unlike your weird attempts to paint me with off the wall random motives and illicit intentions, I am applying actual logic to your actual words and clarifying for everyone what you are actually saying.This is either another delusion you are suffering from or a deliberate lie.
I frankly don’t know WHAT your motives are, and I’d rather not speculate on that.
Your actual words are plenty enough for one person to deal with.
You can continue to mischarachterize what I said but people can read for themselves, I said we must use all powers available to protect and restore America and to keep from being destroyed, I also said that we could repeal the laws delegating the powers at any time and amend the Constitution to prevent them from being passed again.
The problem is not that we wouldn't be using the powers but that we wouldn't be using them while the opposition continued to, if we put an end to the delegation they would not have powers that we failed to use.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
yes, they can. And I encourage everyone to pore over all of these conversations. It will make it all very clear.
unconstitutionalI said we must use all
You cannot restore America by exercising unconstitutional power.powers available to protect and restore America
the exercise of unconstitutional power is what is destroying America.and to keep from being destroyed,
No serious Constitutionalist believes that it is legal for the Executive to exercise legislative powers.I also said that we could repeal the laws delegating the powers at any time and amend the Constitution to prevent them from being passed again.
In America, we only have one President at a time.The problem is not that we wouldn't be using the powers but that we wouldn't be using them while the opposition continued to,
Yes, their not having unconstitutional power is the goal. The best way to get there, is to fail to use unconstitutional powers.if we put an end to the delegation they would not have powers that we failed to use.
China signaled on Monday it was now seeking a "calm" end to its ongoing trade war with the U.S., as Asian markets crumbled and China's currency plummeted to an 11-year low following the latest tariffs on $550 billion in Chinese goods announced last Friday by the Trump administration.
News of the possible opening in negotiations came shortly after President Trump threatened to declare a national emergency that would result in American businesses freezing their relationships with China. Trump's tariff barrage on Friday was a response to China imposing its own retaliatory tariffs on $75 billion in U.S. goods.
At the Group of Seven summit in France on Sunday, White House officials rejected suggestions the president was wavering and insisted that his only regret was not implementing even more tariffs on China. Trump wrote on Twitter that world leaders at the G-7 were "laughing" at all the inaccurate media coverage of the gathering.
In response, Chinese Vice Premier Liu He told a state-controlled newspaper on Monday that "China is willing to resolve its trade dispute with the United States through calm negotiations and resolutely opposes the escalation of the conflict," Reuters first reported, citing a transcript of his remarks provided by the Chinese government. Liu is China's top trade negotiator.
The yuan also slipped to 7.1487 to the dollar, weeks after the Treasury Department formally designated China a currency manipulator. The Treasury Department said it will work with the International Monetary Fund to try to rectify the “unfair competitive advantage created by China’s latest actions.”
More at: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/chi...-year-flatline
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Yes you can, a coup or revolution would both be unconstitutional but the end result could very well be the restoration of Constitutional government.
America is being destroyed in many different ways by enemies both foreign and domestic.
That simply isn't true, the current precedent is that Congress can delegate some powers.
The bureaucracy is currently insulated from the control of the President and they continue to utilize delegated powers and the next President will use them unless we change the laws and amend the Constitution.
That does nothing to stop them, only changing the law and amending the Constitution will.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
So basically, the result of this attempt to exercise unconstitutional power, is China positioning itself in the historical narrative, as the adult in the room. lol
he who owns the past, controls the present. he who controls the present, commands the future.
Someone still stuck in 3GW will barely understand 4GW, and 5GW will be totally meaningless.
Why not just send China a squadron of F35s gift wrapped with bows? That would do about as much towards winning your war with China as this disaster.
No, a coup or a revolution results in a new form of government altogether. That’s what words like coup, and revolution mean.
if America obeyed the Constitution we wouldn’t be in this mess.America is being destroyed in many different ways by enemies both foreign and domestic.
The best way out of this mess, is to start obeying the Constitution.
it is absolutely true that no serious CONSTITUTIONALIST believes that it is legal for a President to legislate.That simply isn't true, the current precedent is that Congress can delegate some powers.
”the bureaucracy” is not an entity which can be delegated to by the Constitution.The bureaucracy is currently insulated from the control of the President and they continue to utilize delegated powers
The Constitution delegates ALL legislative authority to the Congress.
The fact that an IRS lackey might do something illegal is not justification for a President to ignore the Constitution.
All of this is already illegal. I don’t think making it “more illegal” is going to help.and the next President will use them unless we change the laws and amend the Constitution.
almost nothing the government does is authorized by the Constitution. Why do you think that adding some more text to it will change anything?That does nothing to stop them, only changing the law and amending the Constitution will.
But what is to be the standard by which one may be judged to have "misused" them, if not the Constitution? That is, if the Constitution is not the "Supreme Law of the Land," then what is? And why should effort be expended arguing over the Constitution if some other doctrine supersedes it on such matters? Would it not be more appropriate and sensible (not to mention briefer) to simply say, "So much the worse for the Constitution, since this other thing overrules it?"
Despite all the brouhaha, I am still not clear on your position with respect to the question of whether the delegation of Congressional responsibilities to the Executive is constitutional (as the Constitution currently stands). In post #127 you said that the Constitution does not expressly forbid such delegation and that non-delegation can only be inferred from it. You have also spoken of delegation as having precedent. Here, you say that a Presidential veto of a Congressional retraction of its previous delegation would be "corrupt" because it would "oppos[e] a return to the intent of the Constitution." But unless I have missed it, you have not explicitly stated whether you think delegation is actually constitutional. So for purposes of clarification before I remark any further: is it your position that delegation is constitutional under the Constitution as it currently exists? Yea or nay? If you were a SCOTUS judge (today) and the question came before you (today), how would you rule?
Last edited by Occam's Banana; 08-26-2019 at 04:41 AM.
The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)
- "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
-- The Law (p. 54)- "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
-- Government (p. 99)- "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
-- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)- "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
-- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)· tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·
There's a reason why people were calling him Boromir.
This whole line of argument is a gaslight anyway, as he explicitly said that he wants a totalitarian executive government: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-of-government
He doesn't want temporary fascism "until the Constitution is restored," fascism is the desired result.
Police are out of control and constantly break all the laws they are paid to enforce. They murder people in cold blood and lie about it. They are catapulted to the highest level where a person that even questions their validity on any occasion is incarcerated and loses everything trying to show/prove they were wronged. Is the answer to this absurd abuse of terror, this war on civilians, to take up arms against all police and shoot to kill any LEO on sight? Do we need new laws that say killing civilians, dogs, lying, stealing, beating, dealing drugs, ........ are illegal for police to do? Any cop that you look at the wrong way these days can and will charge and arrest you with any and every charge. They will go about their business of doing the same to their next victim while you spend all your assets and beg for mercy from the courts. You probably end up accepting a plea deal even though you never did anything wrong in the first place just so you can be a prisoner outside of the gates in the minimum security section. Your next encounter with police is yes sir, okay sir........ Should you take up arms to solve this problem? Does there need to be new laws on the books? Is what I described a delusion of my own making? Should we ignore this situation?
This argument that saying, "the other side uses this power against us so we need to use it against them," is extra-surreal in this instance.
Aside from the spuriousness of the entire line of argument that others have pointed out, in this case it wouldn't even work, since what Trump's claiming here is not a case of our side using it against the other side, but just another case of the other side using the power against us.
Trump is not "our side" here. He is the regime, and he is saying he wants to engage in this leftist abuse of his power against us, not acting on our behalf against the left.
Perhaps the better question is, how does this law happen?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/white-hou...172450694.html
“Ultimately, he does have authority,” responded Kudlow. “It’s an emergency economic power authority,” he said, adding that Trump “is not intending to” block trade with China at this time.
I believe I posted it in a similar thread. My guess is that it is authorized much the same way businesses are prohibited from doing business with Iran or North Korea.
So, how does the law happen and why hasn't anyone revoked it?
The Creature from Jekyll Island:
We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!
Well, come on, @GunnyFreedom. Tell him where the Constitution says, "And when we say, 'Congress shall...' we mean it. We don't mean, 'Congress shall tell someone else to...'"
And then tell him what would happen to a buck private in the Marines who says, "I know you told me to clean the latrine, Sarge, but you didn't tell me not to delegate that to Private Joe Blow. It isn't my fault he didn't do it."
Big mistake. One look at where this chihuahuabot spends his Saturday nights should be enough to see it's completely asexual.
Notice that he presents the Constitution and the Law as if the Constitution is not the law. Notice also how he pretends that the government obeys the law.
Complete projection.
Gunny, why are you wasting effort on this bot? Destroying his arguments completely will never stop him from yapping them over and over and over.
Those questions are worth asking, but they don't negate Gunny's point.
The proper response of the president, or anyone else in the executive branch, to any unconstitutional law, is not just to call for Congress to repeal it, and then wait until they do, but to refuse to enforce it in the mean time. Unconstitutional laws are void just by virtue of being unconstitutional. They don't have to be made void by acts of Congress or court rulings, they're automatically already void. And it is the duty of the president, having taken an oath to uphold the Constitution, to make that determination that a law is unconstitutional on his own and to refuse to do that unconstitutional act.
Chris
"Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon
"...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul
Last edited by devil21; 08-26-2019 at 11:16 AM.
"Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul
"We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book
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