PMs: It has broken the $1100 mark!

[Danke]

Originally Posted by YumYum

Traficant spells it out in his speech to Congress.

How does anybody collect on a bankrupt debt? By buying up the assets a penny on the dollar. Can you imagine China picking up Yellowstone National Park for a cool ten billion?

Yes, I am very familiar with HJR 192. But the Federal Reserve Act was in 1913.

[youngbuck]

I don't have gold, but I have silver. I'll sell it when I can't purchase what I need to with a reasonable amount of dollars. It'll probably be sold to buy some necessity like food, fuel, a generator, solar panel, or something along those lines. Hell, maybe even to pay rent/mortgage.

[eric_cartman]

yumyum... i agree with a lot of what you said in your latest posts... however... none of what you said supports your statement that the more the US government goes into debt, the higher in value the US dollar goes. given everything you wrote, i fail to understand why those views would also make you think that the US dollar would rise in value (espeically relative to gold).

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Originally Posted by YumYum

eric,

I didn't say that the debt would be paid off. First of all, if the debt were to be paid off, it would extinguish the government bonds which would cancel the debt. By doing this, there would be no more U.S. dollars in circulation. Second of all, I recognize that the debt is too large to pay back unless every American becomes a slave to the government.

And yet the very people that are critical of me are screaming that our country is heading towards communism. They firmly believe that, and for good reason. So they own machine guns and bazookas and tons of ammunition because they think that from their computer room in the comfort of their home that they are going to fight the United States military complex and win. They are delusional. They are preparing for total collapse and anarchy, but believe that their gold securities are redeemable at anytime during Armageddon.

If they knew anything about central banks they would know that Rothschild’s original plan was for a one world communist government controlled by a world central bank. His vision is coming true, and most everyone on this board fears this is what is happening: including myself.

Our government has taken over the car industry and is now in the banking industry. What is next? The Airlines? The Utilities? As this depression worsens, our government will continue to “bailout” large industries; not for the purpose of helping people to keep their jobs, but for total state control, just as the Soviet Union had control of its industries.

With this control, Americans will be bound to the debt that they allowed to happen. People can complain that they didn’t run up the debt, but that is no excuse. The debt was run up and they didn’t stop it. The American people will forever be at the mercy of this debt and will work to pay it back, but to no avail. They, I should say we, are forever enslaved to a debt that can never be paid back. The government will make you and I pay back this debt. The politicians will enslave us before they let the government collapse. Through this debt, our government will take away the last of our freedoms, and Rothschild’s vision of a one world government will be realized.

Except of course Secession, Nullification, and Interposition. This type of thing isn't new. It's all happened before in our Nations history. We just have to use the tools available. Will that happen? Who knows. Secondly, if you believe the dollar is going to get stronger with a larger national debt (Remember, to have debt, you must print money; this is how the Fed operates.) I must question the reality into which you live in. Suffice to say, dollar collapse does not increase the valuation of fiat currency.

[devil21]

Originally Posted by YumYum

eric,

I didn't say that the debt would be paid off. First of all, if the debt were to be paid off, it would extinguish the government bonds which would cancel the debt. By doing this, there would be no more U.S. dollars in circulation. Second of all, I recognize that the debt is too large to pay back unless every American becomes a slave to the government.

And yet the very people that are critical of me are screaming that our country is heading towards communism. They firmly believe that, and for good reason. So they own machine guns and bazookas and tons of ammunition because they think that from their computer room in the comfort of their home that they are going to fight the United States military complex and win. They are delusional. They are preparing for total collapse and anarchy, but believe that their gold securities are redeemable at anytime during Armageddon.

If they knew anything about central banks they would know that Rothschild’s original plan was for a one world communist government controlled by a world central bank. His vision is coming true, and most everyone on this board fears this is what is happening: including myself.

Our government has taken over the car industry and is now in the banking industry. What is next? The Airlines? The Utilities? As this depression worsens, our government will continue to “bailout” large industries; not for the purpose of helping people to keep their jobs, but for total state control, just as the Soviet Union had control of its industries.

With this control, Americans will be bound to the debt that they allowed to happen. People can complain that they didn’t run up the debt, but that is no excuse. The debt was run up and they didn’t stop it. The American people will forever be at the mercy of this debt and will work to pay it back, but to no avail. They, I should say we, are forever enslaved to a debt that can never be paid back. The government will make you and I pay back this debt. The politicians will enslave us before they let the government collapse. Through this debt, our government will take away the last of our freedoms, and Rothschild’s vision of a one world government will be realized.

Your post is mostly a truism and I doubt many would disagree with you.

So what is your solution to avert this outcome?

[devil21]

All fiat currencies fail. They always have. Always will. The exact failure point is anyone's guess and how that failure plays out is also anyone's guess. Even the elites controlling things have only so much power to anticipate and guide the outcome. There's still a measure of chaos involved. GWB himself admitted he didn't think the recession would hit on his watch.

I think this is why gold ultimately comes out on top. It's a known quantity/commidity when most everything else is changing.

[YumYum]

Originally Posted by eric_cartman

yumyum... i agree with a lot of what you said in your latest posts... however... none of what you said supports your statement that the more the US government goes into debt, the higher in value the US dollar goes. given everything you wrote, i fail to understand why those views would also make you think that the US dollar would rise in value (espeically relative to gold).

When I first heard Ron Paul during his campaign, he kept saying how the Fed "keeps issuing all this debt to our money supply" and I didn't understand what he was saying. A friend turned me on to this video, "Money as Debt", which I have provided here. You may have seen it. I have watched it four times to grasp what the Hell is going on. I couldn't understand how we have "money as debt." I recommend watching this video.

YouTube - Money As Debt (1 of 5)

After you have watched this video, take the time to read this 200 page book online "Secrets of the Federal Reserve", provided on the link below. It is well worth your time. This was the first book exposing the Fed and everybody, including Ron Paul, has borrowed from it. It was this book that made me realize that the Fed is evil and doesn't give a shit about human life. We have been had. Their goal is to strip you and I of everything we own. It also helps to make clear the picture of how the printing of our money entangles us with this evil debt of which we are now slaves.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/reserve.htm

After you have read Mullins book "Secrets of the Fed", read this article below, which explains where we are headed. Contraction of credit is just a means of the central banks "reclaiming their wealth." This is part of their process. They don't care that you have worked your ass off to accumulate your wealth. They view it as their wealth, and they are getting ready to take it back.

After you view all of these things you will clearly see what I am now seeing. It isn't pretty.

http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/5917

[Mister Grieves]

Originally Posted by YumYum

They don't care that you have worked your ass off to accumulate your wealth. They view it as their wealth, and they are getting ready to take it back.

After you view all of these things you will clearly see what I am now seeing. It isn't pretty.

Learning what you have, do you have any suggestions as how to combat their methods?

[YumYum]

Originally Posted by Mister Grieves

Learning what you have, do you have any suggestions as how to combat their methods?

I think about it 24/7, and I really don't have an answer. I believe the only way out of this is total collapse, which is what the central banks want anyways, because they are planning to take every last thing we own. I don't blame people for disagreeing with me on this forum, because I didn't believe any of this at first either. This shit is unfanthomable. We need to openly discuss this and work together to look at ways we can help each other. Just as I have spent hours on this board trying to show people what is really going on, we need to show other Americans, who have absolutely no clue about any of this: the truth of what has happened to our country by the actions of some of the most evil men that have ever walked the face of this Earth.

I am open for a healthy discussion to begin.

I do have a few ideas and I want to think about them further before I post them. Do you have any ideas?

[YumYum]

Originally Posted by Austrian Econ Disciple

Except of course Secession, Nullification, and Interposition. This type of thing isn't new. It's all happened before in our Nations history. We just have to use the tools available. Will that happen? Who knows. Secondly, if you believe the dollar is going to get stronger with a larger national debt (Remember, to have debt, you must print money; this is how the Fed operates.) I must question the reality into which you live in. Suffice to say, dollar collapse does not increase the valuation of fiat currency.

I believe at some point it will all collapse. What I am focusing on is the events before it does. What I have been trying to point out is that the Fed will contract credit to the point that the dollar rebounds (only for a short while) and we will lose what little we have left. Think about this. We not only have the national declared debt of 12 trillion, we have state debt, county debt, city debt, corporate debt and individual debt that has all of us by the throat.

Many people who attack my position are mixing Austrian economics with our current financial situation. You can't do that and grasp what I am saying. We don't have sound money; the money is backed by debt, so using the illustration of creating inflation by printing more money does not apply to our fiat sysyem. If we were on some sort of gold standard, where we thought that our paper was backed by some unknown quantity of gold, then the diluting theory would apply. But our paper is backed by debt. Let's say our paper was backed by water. By adding more water to the pool of water, do you dilute the water? No. You just have more water. In the same vein, our money is backed by debt, when you create more debt you don't dilute the debt. You cannot apply sound money theory to our fiat system, because we are not anywhere near a sound money system. We are engulfed in a system that depends on debt. When that debt is completely cut off to us, we die.