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Thread: Attention: Anti Trump folks!

  1. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    The SOS (as far as I know) still maintains that the observers were not told to leave. If they had been told to leave (as all the evidence seems to point to) then the subsequent counting would have been contrary to state law, and would have been illegal. Nothing Sterling said in that video addresses this point.

    Sterling also did not address, at all, the issue of the women visibly running the same ballots through the machine multiple times. He just describes the video in general as "normal counting behavior".

    The only thing that Sterling provides an explanation for, is how ballots ended up under the skirted table. It's a reasonable explanation, but his own explanation adds yet more evidence that the observers were indeed told to leave.
    But if all this is true (and I'm not saying it is), why was it necessary for Guiliani and his cohorts to lie about the edited video?
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous



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  3. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    But if all this is true (and I'm not saying it is), why was it necessary for Guiliani and his cohorts to lie about the edited video?
    Shrug. News to me. What did he lie about?

    I don't even really much care what Giuiliani says though. Dude is a moron.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his



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  5. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Shrug. News to me. What did he lie about?

    I don't even really much care what Giuiliani says though. Dude is a moron.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


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  6. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    I'm more of a Jenna Ellis fan.

    The things I would do to her.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  7. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Shrug. News to me. What did he lie about?
    He and the Trump campaign claimed that the containers of ballots pulled from under the tables had been added in secret, when in fact they were sealed and placed under the tables in full view of the monitors. So it wasn't just a case of there being a lack of evidence to support a Trumpian claim; the actual evidence was to the contrary.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  8. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    He and the Trump campaign claimed that the containers of ballots pulled from under the tables had been added in secret, when in fact they were sealed and placed under the tables in full view of the monitors. So it wasn't just a case of there being a lack of evidence to support a Trumpian claim; the actual evidence was to the contrary.
    They didn't just claim it, they doctored a video to make it look like that. And they (or at least Trump) combined that with a claim that a burst pipe was used as a pretense to get poll watchers to leave so that the secret ballots could be produced in their absence. The events of the water leak are also on that video and took place many hours earlier in the morning of election day and had no impact on the vote counting or anybody having to leave. The fact that they doctored the video shows that they were deliberately lying and not just mistaken about the facts or timeline. Georgia released the full video that the Trump team had edited. So they were essentially caught red-handed in that one.

    If the real facts were on their side, why destroy their own credibility by resorting to lies that they could (and did) get caught in?

    I've seen variations of this get replayed in example after example since November of some alleged proof of a massive election fraud conspiracy. And they keep turning out to be hoaxes or misinformation from people who don't know how to do research and think critically.

    Maybe there are some really good solid cases out there that actually involve lots and lots of fraudulent votes. I haven't gone through every single claim with a fine-toothed comb. But if there are, then those genuine claims are only weakened by getting mixed up with all the fake ones. How it is that Trumpers think they're helping their own cases when they keep reposting every story they see that fits the narrative they want without bothering to look into them before they do is beyond me. It's like a religion to them where they already know the truth as an article of faith, and the fact that a story supports the conclusion that they know is right is reason enough to believe that story.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; 01-16-2021 at 11:45 AM.

  9. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    How it is that Trumpers think they're helping their own cases when they keep reposting every story they see that fits the narrative they want without bothering to look into them before they do is beyond me. It's like a religion to them where they already know the truth as an article of faith, and the fact that a story supports the conclusion that they know is right is reason enough to believe that story.
    A lot of people don't want to examine Trump's claims for fear they'll discover that they've been had.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  10. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    He and the Trump campaign claimed that the containers of ballots pulled from under the tables had been added in secret, when in fact they were sealed and placed under the tables in full view of the monitors. So it wasn't just a case of there being a lack of evidence to support a Trumpian claim; the actual evidence was to the contrary.
    Even if the ballots were legitimately placed under the skirted table (and I'm not saying they were) that just means that Trump team's speculation about how the ballots got there was wrong. It doesn't make him a liar, to be wrong.

    And again, even if he was wrong about this specific point of how the ballots got there, the wider point about fraud happening in the video still stands and has not been adequately addressed by Sterling or SOS.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  11. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    They didn't just claim it, they doctored a video to make it look like that. And they (or at least Trump) combined that with a claim that a burst pipe was used as a pretense to get poll watchers to leave so that the secret ballots could be produced in their absence. The events of the water leak are also on that video and took place many hours earlier in the morning of election day and had no impact on the vote counting or anybody having to leave. The fact that they doctored the video shows that they were deliberately lying and not just mistaken about the facts or timeline. Georgia released the full video that the Trump team had edited. So they were essentially caught red-handed in that one.

    If the real facts were on their side, why destroy their own credibility by resorting to lies that they could (and did) get caught in?

    I've seen variations of this get replayed in example after example since November of some alleged proof of a massive election fraud conspiracy. And they keep turning out to be hoaxes or misinformation from people who don't know how to do research and think critically.

    Maybe there are some really good solid cases out there that actually involve lots and lots of fraudulent votes. I haven't gone through every single claim with a fine-toothed comb. But if there are, then those genuine claims are only weakened by getting mixed up with all the fake ones. How it is that Trumpers think they're helping their own cases when they keep reposting every story they see that fits the narrative they want without bothering to look into them before they do is beyond me. It's like a religion to them where they already know the truth as an article of faith, and the fact that a story supports the conclusion that they know is right is reason enough to believe that story.
    The problem is, it sounds like you've bought into the media's propaganda that Trump's team is lying, all the witnesses are lying, and all the evidence is lying.

    The Trump team didn't intentionally doctor the video to cover anything up. They only even had a few hours to even analyze the video themselves before it was shown to the state hearing. In that hearing, they showed pretty much a summary of what happened between 10pm and 2am. They were skipping to approximate times of points of interest. They weren't trying to "doctor" anything. That is some class A media spin bull$#@! right there.

    With that said the GA video is sketchy but doesn't prove anything. So its basically useless in a court of law.

    There is a lot of good evidence that would or should be useful in a court. Eyewitness accounts, constitutional issues, etc.

    But I think you've already made up your mind anyway.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  12. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Even if the ballots were legitimately placed under the skirted table (and I'm not saying they were) that just means that Trump team's speculation about how the ballots got there was wrong. It doesn't make him a liar, to be wrong.

    And again, even if he was wrong about this specific point of how the ballots got there, the wider point about fraud happening in the video still stands and has not been adequately addressed by Sterling or SOS.
    Regardless of whether it was a sealed ballot box or not, Nothing should have been done with it without observers from both parties present.



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  14. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    A lot of people don't want to examine Trump's claims for fear they'll discover that they've been had.
    You are right about that.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  15. #162
    Could Trump sue the DNC for defamation?

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  16. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    Could Trump sue the DNC for defamation?
    Maybe in a Texas court.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  17. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    The Trump team didn't intentionally doctor the video to cover anything up. They only even had a few hours to even analyze the video themselves before it was shown to the state hearing.
    OK. So maybe they got confused and got some things wrong in their haste. But then after they had those things pointed out to them, and Trump continued to tell the same story in his speech on January 6th, that explanation doesn't hold up any more.

  18. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    Regardless of whether it was a sealed ballot box or not, Nothing should have been done with it without observers from both parties present.
    Says who?

    Partisan observers aren't required to be there. It's optional. They, as well as the public in general, are allowed to be there and observe the counting if the choose. But if they choose not to, that doesn't shut down the counting.

  19. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    OK. So maybe they got confused and got some things wrong in their haste. But then after they had those things pointed out to them, and Trump continued to tell the same story in his speech on January 6th, that explanation doesn't hold up any more.
    The only thing that the SOS has provided an explanation for is how the ballots ended up under the skirted table. Which doesn't change anything regarding the claims being made: 1) that observers were told to go home, and 2) on that video, the same sets of ballots were repeatedly processed 3+ times

    The SOS effectively explained nothing.

    There is overwhelming evidence that the observers were told to go home. The SOS official statement is demonstrably false based on this evidence.

    There is also the fact that the women ran the same set of ballots through the machine multiple times. The SOS has never addressed this claim directly, only has said that the activities that night were "normal". What's normal about repeatedly counting the same set of ballots 3+ times?

    You are nitpicking one tiny little irrelevant thing that the SOS has a reasonable explanation for. It doesn't even mean that the explanation is true. The broader picture of what happened that night in State Farm GA, is yet to be explained by the SOS in any reasonable way.

    Why should we believe even anything the SOS says, when he still maintains that the observers were not told to go home despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary?
    Last edited by TheTexan; 01-16-2021 at 03:51 PM.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  20. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Says who?

    Partisan observers aren't required to be there. It's optional. They, as well as the public in general, are allowed to be there and observe the counting if the choose. But if they choose not to, that doesn't shut down the counting.
    In GA, observers aren't required by law to be there. They are required by law to be allowed to be there.

    If they were sent home, the subsequent counting would be illegal.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  21. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    The only thing that the SOS has provided an explanation for is how the ballots ended up under the skirted table. Which doesn't change anything regarding the claims being made: 1) that observers were told to go home, and 2) on that video, the same sets of ballots were repeatedly processed 3+ times

    The SOS effectively explained nothing.

    There is overwhelming evidence that the observers were told to go home. The SOS official statement is demonstrably false based on this evidence.

    There is also the fact that the women ran the same set of ballots through the machine multiple times. The SOS has never addressed this claim directly, only has said that the activities that night were "normal". What's normal about repeatedly counting the same set of ballots 3+ times?

    You are nitpicking one tiny little irrelevant thing that the SOS has a reasonable explanation for. It doesn't even mean that the explanation is true. The broader picture of what happened that night in State Farm GA, is yet to be explained by the SOS in any reasonable way.

    Why should we believe even anything the SOS says, when he still maintains that the observers were not told to go home despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary?
    Forget anything the SOS says. I don't think I ever mentioned the SOS. The original video exists and has been released to the public.



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  23. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Forget anything the SOS says. I don't think I ever mentioned the SOS. The original video exists and has been released to the public.
    I don't understand your point. What are you getting at?
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  24. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    In GA, observers aren't required by law to be there. They are required by law to be allowed to be there.

    If they were sent home, the subsequent counting would be illegal.
    I notice you keep saying things like "were sent home" and "were told to go home" in the passive voice. Why not use the active voice and say who it is that you think told them to go home? Because if anybody told anybody to go home, or said something like, "We're done, let's go home," it makes all the difference in the world who that person was and to whom they were speaking. If the observers weren't actually told they couldn't stay or that no more counting would be done for the night by someone representing themselves as having authority to send people home or to stop the count, then that's not the same as what you're trying to imply, and keep avoiding actually saying with this vague passive voice.

  25. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    I notice you keep saying things like "were sent home" and "were told to go home" in the passive voice. Why not use the active voice and say who it is that you think told them to go home? Because if anybody told anybody to go home, or said something like, "We're done, let's go home," it makes all the difference in the world who that person was and to whom they were speaking. If the observers weren't actually told they couldn't stay or that no more counting would be done for the night by someone representing themselves as having authority to send people home or to stop the count, then that's not the same as what you're trying to imply, and keep avoiding actually saying with this vague passive voice.
    According to testimony, it was the woman in dreads who announced to the whole room that counting was done for the night. She's been named elsewhere but I don't recall her name. It was however indeed a specific person of official capacity who announced that counting was done for the night.

    Even the SOS official explanation is that the entire room thought they were done counting for the night, until a phone call happened that told them to go back counting.

    Let's just say that the observers were told in an official capacity that "counting was done for the night" vs "go home". For the purposes of GA election law, it's the same thing.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  26. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    There is also the fact that the women ran the same set of ballots through the machine multiple times. The SOS has never addressed this claim directly, only has said that the activities that night were "normal". What's normal about repeatedly counting the same set of ballots 3+ times?
    He addressed it directly in his phone call with Trump. When Trump asked, "And Brad, why did they put the votes in three times? They put them in three times." Raffensperger replied, "Mr. President, they did not put that - we did an audit of that and we proved conclusively they were not scanned three times."

    Regarding the observers, the SoS said that the staff, not the observers, were told they would be discontinuing the counting at 10 and would resume in the morning. The observers then likely went home on their own accord (why stick around?). Of course, you probably think that this was done intentionally just to get rid of the observers so they could resume the nefarious counting after they'd left. But the Trumpers have never been able to explain why a pro-Trump Republican Governor, a pro-Trump Republican Secretary of State, and a pro-Trump Republican chief operating officer would have allowed this or any of the other alleged fraudulent actions to happen.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  27. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    He addressed it directly in his phone call with Trump. When Trump asked, "And Brad, why did they put the votes in three times? They put them in three times." Raffensperger replied, "Mr. President, they did not put that - we did an audit of that and we proved conclusively they were not scanned three times."
    Thanks, I forgot he said that. But his words aren't a rebuttal of what happened. His words are just a denial of something that is clearly seen on video. Its pretty clear on video that they were sending the same sets of ballots through the machine 3 times.

    An acceptable explanation would be more of the form, "it looks like they're scanning the same set of ballots 3 times, but that's actually official procedure because we have built-in anti-fraud protection systems that require scanning each ballot 3 times, so its actually all perfectly normal."

    But just saying that something didn't happen, when it on video clearly did happen, isn't a rebuttal.

    I'll give Raffensperger the benefit of the doubt and say that he simply misspoke there, as I haven't seen it cited anywhere outside of the Trump call transcript.


    Regarding the observers, the SoS said that the staff, not the observers, were told they would be discontinuing the counting at 10 and would resume in the morning. The observers then likely went home on their own accord (why stick around?).
    Does it matter? This feels like nitpicking. If the election staff were told to go home, the observers were however free to stay? "Hey observers we're all going home, but feel free to stick around and observe these unattended ballots. Have a great night!"


    Of course, you probably think that this was done intentionally just to get rid of the observers so they could resume the nefarious counting after they'd left. But the Trumpers have never been able to explain why a pro-Trump Republican Governor, a pro-Trump Republican Secretary of State, and a pro-Trump chief operating officer would have allowed this or any of the other alleged fraudulent actions to happen.
    Nefarious intentions or not, the observers were told to go home. And then counting resumed anyway. Which by itself is illegal, regardless of intention.
    Last edited by TheTexan; 01-16-2021 at 04:50 PM.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  28. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Thanks, I forgot he said that. But his words aren't a rebuttal of what happened. His words are just a denial of something that is clearly seen on video. Its pretty clear on video that they were sending the same sets of ballots through the machine 3 times.

    An acceptable explanation would be more of the form, "it looks like they're scanning the same set of ballots 3 times, but that's actually official procedure because we have built-in anti-fraud protection systems that require scanning each ballot 3 times, so its actually all perfectly normal."

    But just saying that something didn't happen, when it on video clearly did happen, isn't a rebuttal.
    This is what gets me about the TDS infected folks who are denying obvious systematic voter and election fraud that happened in front of their very eyes. The "irregularities" are denied by the same officials who ran the elections, yet the denials offer no evidence or reason beyond that they should just be trusted.

    The evidence that the fraud you CAN SEE did not happen is because "we investigated it and it didn't happen". Well, put up or shut up.

    Someone telling me something didn't happen that I clearly saw happen is not going to convince me otherwise. If you already suffer from TDS, apparently all you need is some authority to tell you up is down and that's that.

  29. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    No snark, no bull$#@!...could you please point out to me where, specifically, Trump incited a riot that his latest impeachment is based on?
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Trump's close allies like Giuliani saying "justice by combat", "fight like hell" just before the riot to a group with many military veterans in audience could be possibly used as defense by some of the folks arrested. A defense case might be possible with a broader context using pro-MAGA surrogates statements like below perhaps ( even though he himself preached "peaceful protest").

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post7013856





    Trump rally speech Jan 6, 2021:
    Pro-Trump Mob Chants "Hang Mike Pence" While Steps Away From Him In Capitol
    looks like people just arent allowed to have freedom of speech. anything you say is offensive, so whatever. its funny that an NFL team can have $#@! talking fans, and yet thats not seen as "inciting" violence. what a joke.

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