Boom. You can't out tariff us. Period. This Trump knows.

[Swordsmyth]

OMG. Aside the saturday morning cartoon level lunacy of this comment, ..

So other, much smaller, countries are fully able to cope with China’s alleged currency manipulation or tariffs or subsidies but not the USA. That merely confirms it is US government’s own policies stifling the nation’s competitiveness. Can’t blame China for the problems cause by Washington and various state governments. Although some spamming Socialismsmyth surely will.

Again, China is not to blame for US loss of competitiveness.

While China spends its money building built the largest most advanced highway system in the world, and the largest most advance and high speed train system in the world, the newest most advance and efficient air and naval cargo ports in the world, and building win-win infrastructure to expand improve reduce costs and increase speed multi-way trade across Eurasia, the government in Washington allows the US infrastructure to continually age and deteriorate while depleting trillions upon trillions upon trillions of resources wasted on overseas occupations, invasions, bombing, destruction, regime changes, color revolutions, proxy wars etc. Meanwhile bordering the US economy with an unfathomable $22 trillion in acknowledged debt and incomprehensible $80k+ trillion in actual GAAP government debt.

US says it wants to lead the world in trade but then wastes all its resources and efforts on foreign empire and bombs and wars and subsidizing the MIC, meanwhile going around the world threatening every other nations if they don’t do what US says and telling them who they can buy from or sell to and will be punched if they don’t obey the despot. Meanwhile the China invests in trade infrastructure, trade routes, and projects to increase trade capacity and trade efficiency and making win-win trade deals with the rest of the world.

US government is solely to blame for its destruction of US competitiveness. And the Trump delusion cult joins hand in hand with the leftists, the socialists, the neoconservatives, the neoliberals to continue these policies of self-destruction because Trump is now leading the charge down the very same path of self-destruction.

You can't ignore the effect of Chinese tariffs, non-tariff barriers and subsidies, bad as some US policies are they are not responsible for the additional damage done by China's economic warfare.

And other smaller countries have been able to defend themselves even thou they have much worse domestic policies because instead of collaborating with the enemy they fought back and because China has not targeted them to the same extent as it has targeted the US because they do not stand in the way of China ruling the world like we do.

[Swordsmyth]

To borrow an analogy of the US economy and Asian economies from a wise economist, it is akin to an American and 5 Asians on an island. One Asian collects fish and shellfish each day to provide food, another hunts and traps and obtains a few animals each week to also provide food and leather, another builds clothing and bags from the hides, another weaves sandals and shoes and blankets from reads and grasses.

The American sits around all day and at the end of the day grabs some loos grass and cuts notches for 1 5 and 10 and says here will uses the grass stems as money so each day you can sell the product of your labor to me in exchange for the grass stems I create. Further, once you sell stuff to me you can also use the grass as currency amongst yourself to trade with each other. The American just keeps printing the grass currency each day and proclaims he is the engine of the Island economy; Without him nothing would function and the economy would come to a halt; He is the consumer providing the demand so everyone can work.

That is the US economy compared to others. Who is the one that getting taken advantage of? Who is the one benefitting? Trump and the nitwits would complain that the American is being taken advantage of because he has a trade deficit with the Asians. The trade deficit comes from the money printing and the other economies accepting it. In the US the driver of the trade deficit comes from the never-ending money expansion and perpetual and never ending and accelerating debt spending.

Sure, just ignore the fact that one Asian and his minions are telling the American that he can't sell anything to the other Asians and cuts more grass than the American and gives it to the Asians for everything they sell to the American.
Also ignore that before all that started the American used to make and sell more than any of the Asians before the head Asian started cheating.

[Swordsmyth]

Since the trade war began last year, analysts have been closely parsing every production-related decision by Apple and its suppliers, seeing them as bellwethers of the global consumer-tech industry: Will the American tariffs permanently restructure the global supply chain? Increasingly it's looking that way. Because not long after a Foxconn executive warned that the largest manufacturer of iPhones in mainland China was ready to help Apple shift production elsewhere, Nikkei reports that suppliers for iPhones, iPads, MacBooks and Apple Ear Pods have all drawn up plans to move 15%-30% of production outside of the mainland, with India, Vietnam, Mexico and Malaysia looking like the top alternatives.


At this point, even if Washington doesn't follow through with plans to slap tariffs on another $300 billion in goods, companies, including Foxconn, Pegatron, Wistron, Quanta Computer, iPad maker, Compal Electronics, and AirPods makers Inventec, Luxshare-ICT and Goertek have all been asked by Apple to evaluate options outside of China.
Other suppliers are watching these companies, and monitoring where they go.

"We need to know where those big assemblers are heading to so that we can initiate our plan too," an executive at an Apple component supplier told Nikkei.

Apple supplier Wistron has assembled cheaper iPhones in India since 2017, and Foxconn started assembling more iPhones there this year, but volumes have been very small. More than 90% of Apple's products are still assembled in China. And last year, the number of mainland Chinese and Hong Kong-based suppliers surpassed the number from the US and Japan for the first time, accounting for 41 of the top 200 suppliers.


This is the biggest reason why Apple needs its suppliers to write up plans for long-term "diversification" of production. But trade tensions aren't the only issue with China: Apple also raised demographic issues like lower birth rates. Ultimately, millions of jobs in China are at risk.

The California-based tech giant's request was triggered by the protracted trade tensions between Washington and Beijing, but multiple sources say that even if the spat is resolved there will be no turning back. Apple has decided the risks of relying so heavily on manufacturing in China, as it has done for decades, are too great and even rising, several people told Nikkei.
"A lower birthrate, higher labor costs and the risk of overly centralizing its production in one country. These adverse factors are not going anywhere," said one executive with knowledge of the situation. "With or without the final round of the $300 billion tariff, Apple is following the big trend [to diversify production]," giving itself more flexibility, the person added.

China has been the production base on which Apple's global success has been built over the past two decades. The country has not only been able to rally hundreds of thousands of skilled workers at short notice to fill rapidly rising orders as the company grew, but an extensive and complex ecosystem of components, logistics and talent has built up in and around Apple manufacturing sites.

Some 5 million Chinese jobs rely on Apple's presence in the country, including those of more than 1.8 million software and iOS App developers, according to a study available on the company's website. Apple itself employs 10,000 staff in China, the company said.

More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...-outside-china

[AZJoe]

Just more leftist-socialist economic whining. (WAHHHH). If trading with China is just so "unfair" then why is it Japan has a trade surplus with China? Why is it that Korea has a trade surplus with China? Why is it that Germany has a trade surplus with China? Australia, Malaysia, Brazil and others all maintains a trade surplus with China.

Its the same old crying that markets are "unfair" so we need government intervention to protect our US manufacturing again the ability to obtain low-cost qualify materials to make themselves more competitive. ...

China is not responsible for USA's loss of competitiveness. ...

Now these same protectionist leftist mindset statists want to fix the problems cause by government regulation and taxation by adding more government regulation and taxation in...

OMG. Aside the saturday morning cartoon level lunacy of this comment, ..

So other, much smaller, countries are fully able to cope with China’s alleged currency manipulation or tariffs or subsidies but not the USA. That merely confirms it is US government’s own policies stifling the nation’s competitiveness. Can’t blame China for the problems caused by Washington and various state governments. Although some spamming Socialismsmyth surely will.

Again, China is not to blame for US loss of competitiveness.

While China spends its money building the largest most advanced highway system in the world, and the largest most advanced and high speed train system in the world, the newest most advance and efficient air and naval cargo ports in the world, and building win-win infrastructure to expand, improve, reduce costs and increase speed of multi-way trade across Eurasia, the government in Washington allows the US infrastructure to continually age and deteriorate while depleting trillions upon trillions upon trillions of resources wasted on overseas occupations, invasions, bombing, destruction, regime changes, color revolutions, proxy wars etc. Meanwhile burdening the US economy with an unfathomable $22 trillion in acknowledged debt and incomprehensible $80k+ trillion in actual GAAP government debt.

US says it wants to lead the world in trade but then wastes all its resources and efforts on foreign empire and bombs and wars and subsidizing the MIC, meanwhile going around the world threatening every other nations if they don’t do what US says and telling them who they can buy from or sell to and will be punched if they don’t obey the despot. Meanwhile the China invests in trade infrastructure, trade routes, and projects to increase trade capacity and trade efficiency and making win-win trade deals with the rest of the world.

US government is solely to blame for its destruction of US competitiveness. And the Trump delusion cult joins hand in hand with the leftists, the socialists, the neoconservatives, the neoliberals to continue these policies of self-destruction because Trump is now leading the charge down the very same path of self-destruction.

ON. THE. NOSE.

Also the fact that the US is running trade deficits, not just with China, but ALL of its largest trading partners [Canada, Mexico, Japan, Germany, South Korea, France, India, Taiwan, Brazil, the EU, also reveals that China is not to blame and the issue lies squarely with the US.

The real primary driver of the trade deficit is the US fiat currency expansion enabled by the US government abuse of the reserve currency status. The following analogy highlights the principle.

To borrow an analogy of the US economy and Asian economies from a wise economist, it is akin to an American and 5 Asians on an island. One Asian collects fish and shellfish each day to provide food, another hunts and traps and obtains a few animals each week to also provide food and leather, another builds clothing and bags from the hides, another weaves sandals and shoes and blankets from reads and grasses.

The American sits around all day and at the end of the day grabs some loos grass and cuts notches for 1 5 and 10 and says here will uses the grass stems as money so each day you can sell the product of your labor to me in exchange for the grass stems I create. Further, once you sell stuff to me you can also use the grass as currency amongst yourself to trade with each other. The American just keeps printing the grass currency each day and proclaims he is the engine of the Island economy; Without him nothing would function and the economy would come to a halt; He is the consumer providing the demand so everyone can work.

That is the US economy compared to others. Who is the one that getting taken advantage of? Who is the one benefitting? Trump and the nitwits would complain that the American is being taken advantage of because he has a trade deficit with the Asians. The trade deficit comes from the money printing and the other economies accepting it. In the US the driver of the trade deficit comes from the never-ending money expansion and perpetual and never ending and accelerating debt spending.

[Swordsmyth]

Also the fact that the US is running trade deficits, not just with China, but ALL of its largest trading partners [Canada, Mexico, Japan, Germany, South Korea, France, India, Taiwan, Brazil, the EU, also reveals that China is not to blame and the issue lies squarely with the US.

The real primary driver of the trade deficit is the US fiat currency expansion enabled by the US government abuse of the reserve currency status. The following analogy highlights the principle.

Everybody abuses us on trade but the Chinese do so more than most and that is why the deficit with China has been so huge.

[devil21]

Everybody abuses us on trade but the Chinese do so more than most and that is why the deficit with China has been so huge.

Only someone without a firm grasp of the situation thinks that printed up digits in a computer sent out in exchange for real, finished goods is a case where the printer is the one being abused. But don't worry SS, the tables will be turned soon enough and when the Foxconn factories open up here, you'll really have good reason to complain of abuse.

[Zippyjuan]

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/26/trum...e-are-now.html

President Donald Trump expressed optimism Wednesday for a trade deal with China but said he’s happy with the way things are going and is still considering putting tariffs on all Chinese imports.

The president, in an interview with Fox Business, said he is “very happy with where we are now. We’re taking in a fortune, and frankly [it’s] not a very good thing for China, but it is a good thing for us.”

His comments came the same morning that Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin told CNBC he is optimistic that progress can be made during the president’s scheduled meeting on Saturday with China’s Xi Jinping. Stocks opened higher Wednesday amid the more hopeful tone, though they were off their highs of the morning following Trump’s comments.

While Trump stressed the importance of getting a deal, he also said tariffs have been good for the U.S. economy.

“I view tariffs differently than a lot of other people,” he said, noting that since the U.S. has levied 25% duties on $250 billion worth of Chinese goods “our market has gone through the roof.”

“They want a deal more than I do,” he added.

Should the two sides hit another impasse, Trump said he’s prepared to put tariffs on the remaining $350 billion or so of goods that flow into the U.S. from China. However, he said he’s open to a different strategy in the next phase, which could see 10% tariffs, “which people can absolutely handle,” instead of 25%.

Noting that US companies and consumers are the ones paying the tariff fees to the US government.

since the U.S. has levied 25% duties on $250 billion worth of Chinese goods “our market has gone through the roof.”

Have stocks "gone through the roof" since 25% duties were imposed? That round of tariffs went into effect August 27th, 2018. Dow Jones was at 25,964. Today it has soared all the way to 26,580- an increase of 616 points- or just 2.3% in ten months. Not exactly "soaring". Meanwhile US economic growth continues to slow.

[Swordsmyth]

Only someone without a firm grasp of the situation thinks that printed up digits in a computer sent out in exchange for real, finished goods is a case where the printer is the one being abused. But don't worry SS, the tables will be turned soon enough and when the Foxconn factories open up here, you'll really have good reason to complain of abuse.

The Chinese print money in greater quantities than we do and we produce and export as little as we do (which is a lot more than you want to admit) because of Chinese economic warfare.

But Xi would be angry if you mentioned that.

[Swordsmyth]

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/26/trum...e-are-now.html



Noting that US companies and consumers are the ones paying the tariff fees to the US government.

Except that the Chinese are lowering their prices to keep marketshare.

Have stocks "gone through the roof" since 25% duties were imposed? That round of tariffs went into effect August 27th, 2018. Dow Jones was at 25,964. Today it has soared all the way to 26,580- an increase of 616 points- or just 2.3%. Not exactly "soaring". Meanwhile US economic growth continues to slow.

Things are going much better than the Chinese propagandists told us they would and they will be much worse if we go back to collaborating with our own destruction.

[Zippyjuan]

Except that the Chinese are lowering their prices to keep marketshare.

.

link?

[devil21]

The Chinese print money in greater quantities than we do and we produce and export as little as we do (which is a lot more than you want to admit) because of Chinese economic warfare.

But Xi would be angry if you mentioned that.

Chinese printing of yuan matters because we import so much yuan into the country?

[Swordsmyth]

Chinese printing of yuan matters because we import so much yuan into the country?

It subsidizes their exports and penalizes any exports we would make to them.
It is part of their campaign to destroy our economy.

[devil21]

It subsidizes their exports and penalizes any exports we would make to them.
It is part of their campaign to destroy our economy.

Explain it to me. While also bearing in mind that the dollar to yuan conversion rate today is the exact same ratio as it was 11 years ago.

[Swordsmyth]

Explain it to me. While also bearing in mind that the dollar to yuan conversion rate today is the exact same ratio as it was 11 years ago.

Where do the Yuan go?
They go out to the world market to buy things for Chinese companies in competition with our companies after being given to Chinese companies to subsidize them so they can remain profitable even when they dump goods at home or abroad.

[devil21]

Where do the Yuan go?
They go out to the world market to buy things for Chinese companies in competition with our companies after being given to Chinese companies to subsidize them so they can remain profitable even when they dump goods at home or abroad.

And that is different than what the Federal Reserve has been doing with the dollar in China in what way? Do remember that you said that the Chinese are abusing us by accepting our dollars in exchange for finished goods exported here. So what you're really saying is that the Chinese are doing exactly what we've been doing for about 50 years. And somehow we're the ones being abused by that. SS logic

[Swordsmyth]

And that is different than what the Federal Reserve has been doing with the dollar in China in what way?

Did I say it was different?
I said they have done even more of it in addition to all the other ways they block our exports to them and subsidize their exports to us.

Do remember that you said that the Chinese are abusing us by accepting our dollars in exchange for finished goods exported here.

Whatever you are remebering you are "remembering" wrong, I never said that.

So what you're really saying is that the Chinese are doing exactly what we've been doing for about 50 years. And somehow we're the ones being abused by that. SS logic

They are doing much more to abuse us than we have ever done to them.

[devil21]

Did I say it was different?
I said they have done even more of it in addition to all the other ways they block our exports to them and subsidize their exports to us.

Yet the dollar to yuan ratio is the same as was 11 years ago and hasn't fluctuated more than about 15% in the last 25 years. Doesn't that mean both central banks are both currently printing at the same speed and at the same speed that they were 11 years ago? What advantage is China gaining exactly by printing at the same speed we are?

Whatever you are remembering you are "remembering" wrong, I never said that.

Your quote: "Everybody abuses us on trade but the Chinese do so more than most and that is why the deficit with China has been so huge."

Again, the deficit with China is because we send them dollars and they send us goods. Do you even dollar reserve standard bro? Never mind the absurdity of claiming that "everybody abuses us on trade", seeing how "everybody" has also been accepting the printed up digits in exchange for real products. You have a strange notion of what constitutes "abuse".

They are doing much more to abuse us than we have ever done to them.

You just love playing the victim, don't you? Everybody abuses poor little Swordsmyth. The immigrants, the Chinese, Democrats, "everybody". But apparently never the people that facilitate all of it.

[Swordsmyth]

Yet the dollar to yuan ratio is the same as was 11 years ago and hasn't fluctuated more than about 15% in the last 25 years. Doesn't that mean both central banks are both currently printing at the same speed and at the same speed that they were 11 years ago? What advantage is China gaining exactly by printing at the same speed we are?

It doesn't mean that:

https://twitter.com/Jkylebass/status...56440353169408

They manipulate the exchange rate too.

Your quote: "Everybody abuses us on trade but the Chinese do so more than most and that is why the deficit with China has been so huge."

Again, the deficit with China is because we send them dollars and they send us goods. Do you even dollar reserve standard bro? Never mind the absurdity of claiming that "everybody abuses us on trade", seeing how "everybody" has also been accepting the printed up digits in exchange for real products. You have a strange notion of what constitutes "abuse".

You are switching cause and effect, your propaganda is getting weak.
They abuse us by blocking our goods and subsidizing theirs, that causes us to sell them less and buy more from them, they then use the money the make through their economic warfare to buy assets that they have effectively stolen.

You just love playing the victim, don't you? Everybody abuses poor little Swordsmyth. The immigrants, the Chinese, Democrats, "everybody". But apparently never the people that facilitate all of it.

Always the people who facilitate it all.
You are the one who facilitates the people who facilitate it all.

[devil21]

It doesn't mean that:

https://twitter.com/Jkylebass/status...56440353169408

They manipulate the exchange rate too.

You are switching cause and effect, your propaganda is getting weak.
They abuse us by blocking our goods and subsidizing theirs, that causes us to sell them less and buy more from them, they then use the money the make through their economic warfare to buy assets that they have effectively stolen.




Always the people who facilitate it all.
You are the one who facilitates the people who facilitate it all.

Alright man, whatever you say. Everybody abuses the poor USA, even the countries that have been accepting our printed up digits in exchange for real products for 50 years, products made in sweatshop factories to make them affordable to the average American. But we're being abused by them. OK.

[Swordsmyth]

Alright man, whatever you say. Everybody abuses the poor USA, even the countries that have been accepting our printed up digits in exchange for real products for 50 years, products made in sweatshop factories to make them affordable to the average American. But we're being abused by them. OK.

And we will all just pretend they don't buy assets with the money like Xi commands us to.

[devil21]

And we will all just pretend they don't buy assets with the money like Xi commands us to.

They do indeed do that, as was agreed under the original plan offered to them by Kissinger and quickly followed by Nixon and his banking controllers in setting up the system you are complaining about. The same banking controllers that surround Donnie. So keep blaming everyone else...

[Swordsmyth]

They do indeed do that, as was agreed under the original plan offered to them by Kissinger and quickly followed by Nixon and his banking controllers in setting up the system you are complaining about. The same banking controllers that surround Donnie. So keep blaming everyone else...

I blame everyone involved, you attempt to keep us from fighting back.

[phill4paul]

STILL, not out tariffed.

[Swordsmyth]

STILL, not out tariffed.

Things are going much better than the Chinese propagandists claimed they would and the best is yet to come.

[devil21]

I blame everyone involved, you attempt to keep us from fighting back.

Now that's funny. "Fighting" faceless people on the other side of the world while the actual causes sit in the Oval Office advising your favorite President on a daily basis. I point out where the root of the problem is, just as Ron Paul did. You point at everyone except the actual cause.

eta: This entire argument is academic since the whole Trump tariff shebang is about ending the dollar reserve standard, as the globalist bankers have been planning for years. They're just pushing various scapegoats, via their PR guy Donald, to avoid publicly being revealed as the hidden hand pulling the economic strings.

[Swordsmyth]

Now that's funny. "Fighting" faceless people on the other side of the world while the actual causes sit in the Oval Office advising your favorite President on a daily basis. I point out where the root of the problem is, just as Ron Paul did. You point at everyone except the actual cause.

I point out the point of the knife at our throat and insist on pushing away the hand that holds it, you point to the face of the man holding and insist that we leave it where it is.

Trump is disobeying those who put us into the position we are in and you are clamoring for us to leave things the way they want them.

Just like you scream about the Vatican wanting a world government and then insist that we allow the invasion that they are using to get us there.

Your act might fool some people but it won't fool me.

[devil21]

I'll just repost my eta from above:

eta: This entire argument is academic since the whole Trump tariff shebang is about ending the dollar reserve standard, as the globalist bankers have been planning for years. They're just pushing various scapegoats, via their PR guy Donald, to avoid publicly being revealed as the hidden hand pulling the economic strings.

It's gd hilarious to read delusional statements from SS about how Trump is fighting the people he hired to advise him.

[Swordsmyth]

Russian Market @russian_market
China buys US soybeans ahead of Trump-Xi meeting
https://www.ft.com/content/24c3f30a-...3-ee5cbb98ed36

...

[Zippyjuan]

...

They used to buy 21 million metric tons a year before Trump started the trade war with them. Compared with that, 544,000 tonnes isn't much. They had agreed to buy 14 million tonnes when Trump added more tariffs.

[Swordsmyth]

They used to buy 21 million metric tons a year before Trump started the trade war with them. Compared with that, 544,000 tonnes isn't much. They had agreed to buy 14 million tonnes when Trump added more tariffs.

It's not over yet and they are already weakening, and they have lost millions of pigs so they don't needs as much which has nothing to do with Trump's tariffs.