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Obomber gave JSOC too much free reign, maybe to the point of exhaustion. In fairness to any subsequent President, DOD and CIA operations may be so entangled any President would be hard-pressed clarifying just what the hell's getting blown up today. A village? A mall? An airstrip?
Chris
"Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon
"...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul
Trump ceded control over drone strikes to the CIA.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/militar...trikes-n802311
Trump Administration Wants to Increase CIA Drone Strikes
WASHINGTON — When President Donald Trump visited CIA headquarters in the first weeks of his presidency, he toured the secure floor where agency officers direct drone strikes against suspected terrorists, current and former U.S. officials told NBC News.
Impressed by what he saw, Trump conveyed to incoming CIA Director Mike Pompeo and the assembled agency officers that he wanted them to take a more aggressive posture, according to two current U.S. officials and one former official briefed on the visit.
Soon afterward, multiple sources said, the CIA began carrying out drone strikes that might not have been authorized under the Obama administration, including in Syria, where the military has taken the lead on targeting militant leaders.
The White House granted CIA officers more autonomy to decide on whether and when the U.S. can pull the trigger in various places around the world, including in Yemen, where the military carries out the bulk of the airstrikes, according to four U.S. officials who have been briefed on the agency's counterterrorism operations. The upshot is less micromanaging of targeting decisions by the White House, these officials say.
Now, the Trump administration is contemplating additional policy changes that will further expand the CIA's authority to conduct drone strikes in a number of countries, both in and out of war zones. Such a move would reverse years of effort by President Barack Obama to reduce the CIA's role in targeted killing and shift that responsibility to the military. It could also mean more civilian casualties in CIA drone strikes.
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
Absolutely! When Ben Franklin wrote the Pennsylvania Committee of Safety in 1775 to call for the production of pikes, it was not doubt due to the ability of muskets to slay at a distance. To look ones foe in the eye as you slide steel through their ribs and sever the aortic arch - that is patriotism.
XNN
"They sell us the president the same way they sell us our clothes and our cars. They sell us every thing from youth to religion the same time they sell us our wars. I want to know who the men in the shadows are. I want to hear somebody asking them why. They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are but theyre never the ones to fight or to die." - Jackson Browne Lives In The Balance
Yes, let's just give Ike a pass on sending the first military advisors to Vietnam. Kennedy never deployed the 3rd MEU to Thailand. Nixon didn't authorize an airlift to supply Israel during the Yom Kippur war. And Saint Jimmy never ever snuck supplies into Zaire in support of our dictator against rebels. Nary a dead civilian anywhere.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...=.02b0d38c85e2
XNN
"They sell us the president the same way they sell us our clothes and our cars. They sell us every thing from youth to religion the same time they sell us our wars. I want to know who the men in the shadows are. I want to hear somebody asking them why. They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are but theyre never the ones to fight or to die." - Jackson Browne Lives In The Balance
I'm not saying any of them deserve 'a pass'. I'm just not classifying those things as 'major new wars' the way Raimondo appears to be doing.
If Eisenhower's activity in Vietnam, for example, is classified as starting a major new war, then it's way, way too soon for Raimondo or anyone else to be saying that Trump hasn't started a major new war. He has done things already which could mushroom in a similar manner later.
If this is confirmed, he will be DGP 2.0.
Maybe GOP base darling Bannon had a point, GOP-Javanka wing is not good.
If predators are killing civilian children of colored races too, Ivanka is going to speak out against that very forcefully.
Last edited by enhanced_deficit; 02-02-2018 at 12:10 AM.
MAGA Allies: 'Bully Israel with undeclared nukes steals land'
Dangerous conspiracy theories on Right claim MAGA fake frontgroup
Poll: Should US apologize for financing radicalization of Afghan children in 80s?
Obama-Clinton Years: A Violent Chapter in World History
Trump: If (Neocon) Adelson Backs Rubio "He'll Have Total Control" Over Him
Delta variant, death of 9 Chinese engineers in terror attack led to airport chaos & quick Kabul fall?
How soon are we going to die?
The people got the leader and policies they deserve. FFS, "liberty" people on this very forum jumped at the chance to align themselves with Trump, The LP nominated Gary Johnson again (and are now distancing themselves from Ron himself), Rand Paul was largely ignored, and a far as I could tell had little to no grassroots movement.
Liberty ain't just dead, they killed it, buried it, dug it up, sodomized it, then lit it on fire.
That's what pisses me off about people like ol danno here. Fighting idiotic liberals back is one thing... but traitors to freedom is another.
Congrats, America. You broke liberty, ya bunch of $#@!s. And this is why we can't have nice things.
Maybe because high ranking US military officials have such a long history of telling the absolute, unvarnished truth regarding actual civilian casualties? No? No, I couldn't even type that with a straight face. It's just more horse$#@! government lies. Business as usual.
I note that the very same sources were perfectly acceptable when it was Obama's drone strikes under discussion. Now all of a sudden they're suspect? Hmmm.
Chris
"Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon
"...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul
Yeah, the whole "no new major wars" claim has a very good chance of proving to be utter bull$#@!. Bush didn't invade Iraq until over halfway through his first term. Trump has, so far, been doing an excellent job of seriously antagonizing both Russia and China. If he does wind up getting us into another major war it will almost certainly be a GREAT war. The GREATEST. With the greatest cassualties. It'll be YUUUUGE.
Chris
"Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon
"...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul
I'm not sure if you've noticed, but RAND AND MASSIE have been allying themselves with Trump and defending him in the media, so I guess they are traitors to freedom according to you?
Sorry if I don't accept George Soros propaganda at face value.. I never defended our foreign policy, I'm just questioning these specific results.
I supported Rand until he dropped out, and I guarantee I've done more for Rand than you have.
Maybe instead of people like me it's people who would rather have candidates, nay, criminals like Hillary and bring in millions of people, 80% of whom prefer "bigger government" compared to less than 50% of the current population and we can really start the liberty train
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
I really haven't seen trump do anything that's actually going to affect immigration numbers significantly. He's arrested a bunch of managers at 7-Elevens but I don't think that's going to do it.
He's ripped the arms and legs off a bunch of little boys and girls though. That seems to have increased very significantly.
Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018
Chris
"Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon
"...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul
Have you noticed though, that when when they do align themselves with him it is to leverage in favor of liberty? I haven't seen them defend his foreign policy moves with the exception of foreign aid to Pakistan. When Trump is right on something then great, but when he's wrong he's wrong. We ought to call a spade a spade and not make excuses for the same foreign policy we've always opposed.
Drone strikes of civilians is wrong under Bush, Obama And Trump. All the same, the fact that we don't know the exact number of innocents makes it more appalling not less.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
I did read your post. I don't take the time to respond to every point I agree with. The numbers we heard about Bush and Obama could be incorrect too. What difference does it make? That's all speculation of leftist anti war sites vs NeoCon warmonger sites. Either way the policies that are causing innocents to die are continuing, unless you have evidence otherwise.
I don't recall anyone here hand wringing over the exact numbers under about Bush and Obama.
Did you read the thread title by any chance? That is the entire subject of the thread.. I didn't post the thread, I'm just responding.
The reason it is important is because of all of the damage Hillary Clinton would have done to our country, and she would have continued our atrocious foreign policy.
Rand has helped pass a lot of positive legislation through Trump that he would not have been able to do otherwise. Me and specs and probably almost everybody here are getting some significant raises in the form of tax breaks this year.
While no civilians should die, it DOES matter if Trump kills 10 civilians or 10 million civilians. That is 9,999,990 more civilians dead of he killed ten million vs. 10. So if we are going to compare and contrast the damage done vs. the gains made, it's important to get it at least kinda right.
I'm still very hopeful that Trump is going to be winding a lot of this stuff down in time, he is not a Bush or McCain 100 years in Afghanistan kinda guy. He is a have a goal, go in and achieve it, and get out kinda guy. That means we could see some very positive changes in foreign policy, even if we think there were much better paths that could have been taken.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
It's because they look at the available information and draw conclusions from it. They don't begin with "Trump is Ron Paul on steroids and the Deep State is trying to bring down Trump because they don't like his _____" and subsequently dismiss all information casting a negative light on him, like what our RPF friends do. I really don't get what the deep state dislikes about Trump though. Foreign policy 100% on board. Goldman Sachs wrote the tax plan. So what exactly is Trump doing that they don't like? Some culture war BS? Is that all they got?
Your number is inaccurate. 200% on board. He literally gave all military engagement decision-making to the Pentagon and CIA. We thought it was bad when congress absolved its authority?
Is anybody really going to be surprised when the MIC is given authority over local police? Oh I know, it could never happen because Randal has him in his pocket.
Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018
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