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Based on the Reconciliation Rules, only issues directly effecting tax dollars were supposed to be in the tax bill. This would not qualify- neither would the part allowing drilling for oil and minerals in the Alaskan Wildlife Reserve but were allowed to be included in order to appease members and get them to vote for the bill- despite violating their own rules. They claimed that repealing the mandate would save them $300 billion and let them cut more corporate taxes in exchange.
Last edited by Zippyjuan; 12-20-2017 at 01:15 PM.
"And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat
"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire
The ANWR thing is a dog and pony show.
Nobody is going to be spending any large amounts of money drilling or exploring in the arctic with oil prices where they are right now, and huge swaths of humanity being banned from owning ICE vehicles by government fiat.
No upside demand window.
It's decent. I'm looking to save over 2 grand a year. Of course the tax cuts aren't permanent. They've kicked the can down the road so we can have a MAGA Christmas.
"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
Proponent of real science.
The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.
Reconciliation is the rule which allowed them to pass the tax bill with a simple majority. It was outlined in the last budget bill what any changes in the budget/ taxes could and could not do. It lets Congress "fix" a previously passed bill. The bill could only include items which directly effected spending and revenues. Any resulting deficit would not be able to exceed adding $1.5 trillion to the debt after ten years. That is why they have some of the tax cuts (mostly for individuals) expiring after nine years- if they were permanent, they would exceed the debt target for year ten.
The final bill is a "reconciled" bill where the House and Senate got together to iron out difference between their two plans- the final bill must be the exact same in both Houses. Even after they reconciled it, the Senate ruled that some parts (including the short name of the bill- the "The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act," violated their rules so they had to change it (and a couple of other things). Since it was now no longer the exact same as the House bill, the House had to vote one more time before it could be sent to Trump. (they also changed part of Rubio's proposals)
But a senior Democratic aide said the Senate parliamentarian ruled that the provision of the bill with the short name violated an arcane Senate guideline known as the "Byrd rule," because changing the title from its original long name did not have a budgetary impact. The Senate bill must be Byrd-rule compliant in order to allow such legislation to be passed in the chamber with a simple majority.
With all of his flaws and anti-liberty positions, I am glad that we have a president Trump leading the way for lower taxes.
Lower Taxes = Winning
I like it.
Citizen of Arizona
@cleaner4d4
I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.
Half of taxpayers who filed owed no net income taxes last year. No tax cuts for them. And don't expect much in terms of pay raised from the corporate tax cuts- their heads admit they will give the money to share holders and CEOs instead. It will add to the debt without doing much for the average American. Good luck in getting any share of the $1.5 trillion.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ward-investors
In the 1980's, corporate tax rates were cut from 50% to 40%. Profits started to rise and household income headed in the opposite direction.Trump's Tax Promises Undercut by CEO Plans to Help Investors
Major companies including Cisco Systems Inc., Pfizer Inc. and Coca-Cola Co. say they’ll turn over most gains from proposed corporate tax cuts to their shareholders, undercutting President Donald Trump’s promise that his plan will create jobs and boost wages for the middle class.
The president has held fast to his pledge even as top executives’ comments have run counter to it for months. Instead of hiring more workers or raising their pay, many companies say they’ll first increase dividends or buy back their own shares.
Robert Bradway, chief executive of Amgen Inc., said in an Oct. 25 earnings call that the company has been “actively returning capital in the form of growing dividend and buyback and I’d expect us to continue that.” Executives including Coca-Cola CEO James Quincey, Pfizer Chief Financial Officer Frank D’Amelio and Cisco CFO Kelly Kramer have recently made similar statements.
“We’ll be able to get much more aggressive on the share buyback” after a tax cut, Kramer said in a Nov. 16 interview.
Last edited by Zippyjuan; 12-20-2017 at 04:31 PM.
I'd rather have free market health care which means no mandate AND insurance companies can set prices as they wish and turn down customers as they wish. Since Obamacare has forced insurance companies to insure sick people we need the individual mandates to go with that. In other words the individual mandate and the insurance company mandate work as a pair. Removing the individual mandate and leaving the company mandate is WORSE than having both mandates. Ideally I'd rather remove both mandates but if we are forced to keep the company mandate then yes I prefer the individual mandate.
I partially agree. I think for the economy as a whole the tax cuts are probably going to cause a dollar crash quicker than no tax cuts, since we're not cutting spending. We're just increasing the deficits. That being said for me personally I like the tax cuts because I can position myself for the dollar collapse. Basically I can avoid the dollar collapse but I can't avoid taxes.
Also I like lowering the top rate, I believe progressive taxation is the biggest injustice in the US (and most other countries). At least it's a little better now.
-Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
Author of, War is a Racket!
- Diogenes of SinopeIt is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
The Congress passed a Penalty, claiming it wasn't a tax. The "President" signed it and said it was a Penalty, not a tax. SCOTUS, who is not the House of Representatives BTW, originated the tax after ruling that the Penalty was unconstitutional.
Also that twisted ass $#@! Roberts wrote claiming that it wasn't a direct tax should really make folks question what he has in his closets.
I see your point toward Zippy though, just pointing out the reality of it all.
Originally Posted by Andrew Ryan
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
Calling it a "tax" is what made it "constitutional" . . .
from 2012
". . . the government also argued that the individual mandate can be viewed as constitutional under Congress' powers of taxation."
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/05/politi...tax/index.html
Oh, if that were only true... Sadly, it isn't.
From what I've read, the Child Tax Credit is doubled. Since it is a "credit", you get that "back" whether or not you've paid anything in. And since the other "credits" were left intact, (student loan, medical expense, "American Opportunity" tax credit, education credits, etc.), If you have a dependent and pay no taxes, you will get an even bigger handout from the gubmint teat. And if you're too poor to buy health insurance, you won't be getting taxed ("fined") for not purchasing it.
So, if your poor and file, chances are you're getting a tax, uh, cut??? Well, not exactly sure what you call it, but you're getting more money.
"And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat
"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire
You have to file an Income Tax Return.
To file an income tax return,, you must show some income..
NO Income=NO income tax,, no income tax return.
at lower income levels.. ALL income tax is returned.
Don't make it sound like it is a bunch of free money given away. it is less money being stolen.
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
Some truth here.
Tax Credits (aka welfare) were increased. Tax deductions (get your money back) have been decreased. This tax plan is pretty $#@!ty. Yes, it's an improvement to what we have now but it really is a hugely blown opportunity.
It just so happens that I'll be in the 5% that actually sees a tax increase. Yay! That's what I get for being a single, white male who owns several properties in a high taxed blue state and who already itemizes.
Supreme Court might cringe at the issue created.
If there is no longer a mandate under Congress' "powers of taxation" . . .
then under what authority can Congress create a socialized market with payments to insurance cartels in the first place ?
Last edited by Jan2017; 12-21-2017 at 12:54 PM.
xxxxx
Last edited by Voluntarist; 07-28-2018 at 01:09 PM.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you post to the internet can and will be used to humiliate you.
Well generally speaking you are wrong. The vast majority of corporations are small businesses started by entrepreneurs or tradesmen who are looking to protect their personal assets from business liabilities.
Also generally speaking, the IRS doesn’t have clear rules on the topic, but says that the shareholders should earn a fair (proportionate) wage. My accountant and CPA both advised me that I should be taking no less than 50% of the net income of my own corporation. If I want more, to take it in owner draws to avoid extra payroll taxes, and if I want less then I have to decrease profit.
I think it’s short sighted to call corporations state created entities that pervert free market. It’s corporations that drive the free market...and they are created by people, not the state...
No - No - No - No
2016
Last edited by nobody's_hero; 12-21-2017 at 03:02 PM.
T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato
We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me
Originally Posted by Philhelm
Chris
"Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon
"...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul
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