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Thread: What happened to all the Fair/Flat Taxxers?

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    That wouldn't work. Almost all private (i.e., non-public) companies have way more than $35K in expenses (salaries, rent, insurance, property taxes, etc.)
    that would be a problem , then non-public business would pay 15% after all expenses are deducted .



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Maybe because the members of his cabinet are from Wall Street and Corporations and are interested in giving benefits to their own. (Actually a flat tax would RAISE the taxes paid by those in the lower half of incomes while reducing them for the highest income people). About half of all income tax filers owe no net taxes currently anyways.
    That would be a good thing. Progressive taxation is immoral. Laws should apply equally to all citizens. If the poor can't afford the flat rate, it needs to be lowered. There's no incentive to reduce theft (taxation) when it only gets applied to a small minority. While we're at it let's make non payment a civil offense, not a criminal offense, just like private debt.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    That would be a good thing. Progressive taxation is immoral. Laws should apply equally to all citizens. If the poor can't afford the flat rate, it needs to be lowered. There's no incentive to reduce theft (taxation) when it only gets applied to a small minority. While we're at it let's make non payment a civil offense, not a criminal offense, just like private debt.
    Only 3 in 10 americans pay Fed tax now .
    Do something Danke

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Only 3 in 10 americans pay Fed tax now .
    Another idea I like is to only allow people to vote in federal elections who receive no federal benefits. That would include all federal workers and contractors working for the fed (which would include me - I'd gladly give up my voting privilege).

    The current system is totally corrupt. "Vote for Me and I'll Steal for You" is the current system we have which is why we're bankrupt.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Another idea I like is to only allow people to vote in federal elections who receive no federal benefits. That would include all federal workers and contractors working for the fed (which would include me - I'd gladly give up my voting privilege).

    The current system is totally corrupt. "Vote for Me and I'll Steal for You" is the current system we have which is why we're bankrupt.
    Anyone actually paying more Fed tax than they receive back , I have no real problem with them voting in Fed elections . State elections same . County and city elections should be restricted to people who pay property tax or rent from someone who does or pays other county/city taxes .
    Do something Danke

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulMall View Post
    Taxes just aren't an important issue at this point in time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Anyone actually paying more Fed tax than they receive back , I have no real problem with them voting in Fed elections . State elections same . County and city elections should be restricted to people who pay property tax or rent from someone who does or pays other county/city taxes .
    That's even better. I just figured it'd be harder to implement.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by ILUVRP View Post
    i have always believed that a flat tax would be best , my idea is everyone working would get $35,000 deduction and then pay 15% on anything over 35k , no deductions for anything .
    That would be a lot less crappy than what we have now, but still crappy. There should be no deductions. Why is it ok to steal from someone if they make 35k but not 34k?

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Only 3 in 10 americans pay Fed tax now .
    55% of households pay federal income tax. https://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway.../#5206151f61cb

    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    That would be a good thing. Progressive taxation is immoral. Laws should apply equally to all citizens. If the poor can't afford the flat rate, it needs to be lowered. There's no incentive to reduce theft (taxation) when it only gets applied to a small minority. While we're at it let's make non payment a civil offense, not a criminal offense, just like private debt.
    I agree. The flat tax plans put out are slightly less progressive plans. There should not be an exemption. And there should not be all the deductions that distort incentives i.e. mortgage interest.
    Last edited by Krugminator2; 03-03-2017 at 10:03 PM.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    55% of households pay federal income tax. https://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway.../#5206151f61cb
    Only 6 in 10 americans work , of those 6 three pay tax. You are participating in a country of deadbeats .
    Do something Danke



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  14. #41
    Welfare nation is not strong enough for a flat tax . One percent would be the most burden the poorest could handle . Get rid of the welfare first and then the nation will be more prepared and less weak .
    Do something Danke

  15. #42
    Flat tax (like Rand) seems stupid to me. I don't see how it solves the problem of income determination, which is a big source of IRS aggravation. Fair tax would solve many problems, however (IRS).

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Only 6 in 10 americans work , of those 6 three pay tax. You are participating in a country of deadbeats .
    That's a poor measurement, as it counts only one of the types of income tax.

    Nearly every American pays tax.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    That's a poor measurement, as it counts only one of the types of income tax.

    Nearly every American pays tax.
    Little Jimmy paying sales tax on his bag of red licorice does not pay for a Navy , roads , coining money or any of the few things the Fed govt is supposed to be doing .
    Do something Danke

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Little Jimmy paying sales tax on his bag of red licorice does not pay for a Navy , roads , coining money or any of the few things the Fed govt is supposed to be doing .
    Because sales tax is not a federal tax.

    One of the gas taxes is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    That's a poor measurement, as it counts only one of the types of income tax.

    Nearly every American pays tax.
    Well, depends on how many of those individuals are paying those other taxes with money they were awarded through social justice antics (or get service fee exemptions and the like.)
    Last edited by Weston White; 03-04-2017 at 06:31 AM.
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  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    That would be a lot less crappy than what we have now, but still crappy. There should be no deductions. Why is it ok to steal from someone if they make 35k but not 34k?
    15% on anything over 35k , if a person made 45k then the tax would be 15% of 10k or $1500 .

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    I think a flat tax would be great as long as rich people are still in a higher tax bracket
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulMall View Post
    In other words, not a flat tax. And the Fair Tax (a national sales tax) has always been controversial among conservatives and libertarians because of the fear it would do nothing but open up yet another method of taxation. Taxes just aren't an important issue at this point in time. Trump has demonstrated without a shadow of a doubt that nothing positive is going to be accomplished until the neocons and mainstream media are destroyed. That is the battle we need to focus all our efforts on.
    @RonPaulMall your sarcasm meter is broken. As for what's important, it's all important. One way to destroy the neocons and the neolibs would be to destroy their ability to manipulate people through the tax code.
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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
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  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    A tax plan I would support .
    Do something Danke

  25. #51
    I support a "TIP" jar.

    Voluntary support of what government program you approve of.

    Limited government needs limited funds.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
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    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    I support a "TIP" jar.

    Voluntary support of what government program you approve of.

    Limited government needs limited funds.
    We kind of have that now, if you tip the politicians enough they will support any government program you want them to. I'm not sure if that's what you mean by tipping the government though.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    I'm not sure if that's what you mean by tipping the government though.
    I mean,,
    if you want potholes fixed,, you drop change in the pothole jar.
    If you want to support a school,, you put money in the school jar.

    If you want to start a war..you put money in the war jar.

    If you don't put money in the jar,, money doesn't go in the jar...

    Simple.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Only 6 in 10 americans work , of those 6 three pay tax. You are participating in a country of deadbeats .
    If they're working they're paying payroll taxes (FICA and Medicare).
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    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
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  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by MallsRGood View Post
    Is your income from wages? If so, keep in mind Rand's plan eliminated payroll tax (15.3% at present for both employee/employer portions).

    It also retained some of the more popular deductions, including the mortgage interest.

    I'd be really surprised if you'd end up paying more.
    More on Rand's idea: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ra...rticle/2569919

    He said under his plan Social Security would be paid for by businesses rather than individuals. That would give those who make $40 thousand a year an extra $2 thousand in their paycheck each year, he said.

    Paul's proposal would tax all income at 14.5 percent, which the Tax Foundation found would increase the incomes of those earning over $1 million by 13 percent, while the incomes of those earning between $50,000 and $75,000 would rise by a much more modest 3 percent.
    Technically, half of the Social Security Tax is paid by you and half by your employer. Your boss has a certain budget for payroll. If instead of 6.5% he pays now, he has to pay 13%, he either has to lower the wages he pays workers by the additional amount he now has to pay or he has to raise prices consumers pay for his goods to cover the amount. There is no net gain to society.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    More on Rand's idea: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ra...rticle/2569919

    Technically, half of the Social Security Tax is paid by you and half by your employer. Your boss has a certain budget for payroll. If instead of 6.5% he pays now, he has to pay 13%, he either has to lower the wages he pays workers by the additional amount he now has to pay or he has to raise prices consumers pay for his goods to cover the amount. There is no net gain to society.
    No, Rand's plan eliminates both employer and employee portions of payroll taxes.

    Medicare and SS are funded out of the 14.5 flat rate corporate tax (which replaces the existing corporate tax).

    And this is not just burden shifting; the total burden is less.

    The plan reduces total revenues by $300 billion/year.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by MallsRGood View Post
    No, Rand's plan eliminates both employer and employee portions of payroll taxes.

    Medicare and SS are funded out of the 14.5 flat rate corporate tax (which replaces the existing corporate tax).

    And this is not just burden shifting; the total burden is less.

    The plan reduces total revenues by $300 billion/year.
    https://taxfoundation.org/senator-ra...roll-tax-swap/

    However, if you look closely he really isn’t getting rid of the Social Security or Medicare taxes. His plan actually shifts the revenue from current payroll taxes to the revenue from a portion of his new business VAT. This shift will mean that individuals will end up paying about the same amount of payroll tax, but it will be collected in a different way.
    Under the Rand Paul plan, these payroll taxes go away. However, the new business transfer tax would impose a 14.5 percent tax on all of a business’s payroll. Economically, this would work like the current employer-side payroll tax. The business would reduce an employee’s compensation by precisely the amount they need to pay on their payroll. For the exact same worker the business would now to pay 14.5 percent tax on its payroll of $43,060 or $6,243. The worker ends up being paid $36,816 or about $3,000 less in pre-tax income. But with no employee-side payroll tax, the total tax wedge under the Rand plan would be $6,243, which is slightly more than under current law.

  33. #58
    @zippy

    In other words, taxing corporations indirectly reduces their employees' wages.

    Well, yea, of course, but that's true of existing corporate taxes (which Rand's plan eliminates).

    And under Rand's plan, the total burden is less.

  34. #59
    True. If tax cuts are not offset by cuts in spending though, they add to our deficit and National Debt.

  35. #60
    Who in the primary, besides Huckabee (I assume), was for the Fair Tax this time around?

    I don't remember any.

    I also don't remember a flat tax being a big issue, even in the GOP primaries.

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