Does Wealth Buy Liberty?

[CaptUSA]

This is a question I've been thinking about lately.

Kris Kristofferson wrote that, "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose." I think there's a lot of truth to that idea and I championed it in my youth, but in my life I've been on both sides.

I grew up dirt poor and I never felt free. But now that I'm becoming more wealthy, I notice that my interactions with the State are becoming more and more infrequent.

As a long-haired teenager, I'd get hassled by the men in blue all the time. I'd get stopped, frisked, questioned, arrested and fined... Now, they seem to fear me. I drive around on expired plates, pay no attention to arbitrary speed limits, stop signs or traffic lights - I treat them as suggestions and will judge each situation myself. But I almost never get pulled over. When I do get stopped, they treat me with kid gloves - they just call things to my attention and tell me to have a nice day.

I don't send my kids to government schools because I can afford private. I don't (often) travel using commercial airlines because I can afford charters; I avoid the TSA. I have several "unpermitted" structures on my property, but I never get hassled about them. My tax burden is higher, but my accountant does what she can to keep it as low as possible. When I was poor, I didn't file a tax return for years. It was just too much trouble and I didn't want to be bothered. But that got me noticed by the IRS. Now, I'm still not bothered with it - someone takes care of it for me. And if the IRS has any issues they'll contact her.

I've always tried to follow Harry Browne's advice on how to live free in an unfree world. But it just seems so much easier to avoid the State when you have the means. I suspect the more means you have, the easier it becomes. Is the key to liberty having enough wealth to purchase it?

Thoughts?

[Danke]

This is a question I've been thinking about lately.

Kris Kristofferson wrote that, "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose." I think there's a lot of truth to that idea and I championed it in my youth, but in my life I've been on both sides.

I grew up dirt poor and I never felt free. But now that I'm becoming more wealthy, I notice that my interactions with the State are becoming more and more infrequent.

As a long-haired teenager, I'd get hassled by the men in blue all the time. I'd get stopped, frisked, questioned, arrested and fined... Now, they seem to fear me. I drive around on expired plates, pay no attention to arbitrary speed limits, stop signs or traffic lights - I treat them as suggestions and will judge each situation myself. But I almost never get pulled over. When I do get stopped, they treat me with kid gloves - they just call things to my attention and tell me to have a nice day.

I don't send my kids to government schools because I can afford private. I don't (often) travel using commercial airlines because I can afford charters; I avoid the TSA. I have several "unpermitted" structures on my property, but I never get hassled about them. My tax burden is higher, but my accountant does what she can to keep it as low as possible. When I was poor, I didn't file a tax return for years. It was just too much trouble and I didn't want to be bothered. But that got me noticed by the IRS. Now, I'm still not bothered with it - someone takes care of it for me. And if the IRS has any issues they'll contact her.

I've always tried to follow Harry Browne's advice on how to live free in an unfree world. But it just seems so much easier to avoid the State when you have the means. I suspect the more means you have, the easier it becomes. Is the key to liberty having enough wealth to purchase it?

Thoughts?

I didn't have much money when I was younger, and the cops left me alone. Just two speeding tickets from back then. And I always knew where the closest railroad tracks were when I motorcycled underaged.

My brother got caught, and the cop just made him walk it home, but that was over 40 years ago. After the cop left, my dad's reaction..."don't get caught again."

[phill4paul]

This is a question I've been thinking about lately.

Kris Kristofferson wrote that, "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose." I think there's a lot of truth to that idea and I championed it in my youth, but in my life I've been on both sides.

I grew up dirt poor and I never felt free. But now that I'm becoming more wealthy, I notice that my interactions with the State are becoming more and more infrequent.

As a long-haired teenager, I'd get hassled by the men in blue all the time. I'd get stopped, frisked, questioned, arrested and fined... Now, they seem to fear me. I drive around on expired plates, pay no attention to arbitrary speed limits, stop signs or traffic lights - I treat them as suggestions and will judge each situation myself. But I almost never get pulled over. When I do get stopped, they treat me with kid gloves - they just call things to my attention and tell me to have a nice day.

I don't send my kids to government schools because I can afford private. I don't (often) travel using commercial airlines because I can afford charters; I avoid the TSA. I have several "unpermitted" structures on my property, but I never get hassled about them. My tax burden is higher, but my accountant does what she can to keep it as low as possible. When I was poor, I didn't file a tax return for years. It was just too much trouble and I didn't want to be bothered. But that got me noticed by the IRS. Now, I'm still not bothered with it - someone takes care of it for me. And if the IRS has any issues they'll contact her.

I've always tried to follow Harry Browne's advice on how to live free in an unfree world. But it just seems so much easier to avoid the State when you have the means. I suspect the more means you have, the easier it becomes. Is the key to liberty having enough wealth to purchase it?

Thoughts?

Perhaps, with your new found wealth, your attitude has changed. You are in a position, confident in yourself, that if a government functionary $#@!s with you, then you have the means to deal with it? Your whole demeanor has changed. And like a snarling dog, looking for easy playthings, they sniff that perhaps you are not the toy they choose to bite?
Yes, financial independence makes a difference. Plain and simple.

[phill4paul]

How's it going with your border plans?

[CaptUSA]

Perhaps, with your new found wealth, your attitude has changed. You are in a position, confident in yourself, that if a government functionary $#@!s with you, then you have the means to deal with it? Your whole demeanor has changed. And like a snarling dog, looking for easy playthings, they sniff that perhaps you are not the toy they choose to bite?
Yes, financial independence makes a difference. Plain and simple.

Oh, 100% about my attitude and demeanor. I no longer fear them and they can tell. Which makes them much more careful about screwing with me. The State generally picks on the easy prey.

[CaptUSA]

How's it going with your border plans?

(Cancelled. They didn't want me. I guess I can't blame them. I filled out the applications and called, but they're really looking for ex-military or ex-law enforcement. They didn't want average concerned citizens. I even asked about support functions like hospitality or something, and they still said no. It was almost like they didn't anticipate any increased need. Oh well, using this week to take care of some home improvements.)

Anyway, back to thread.

[phill4paul]

(Cancelled. They didn't want me. I guess I can't blame them. I filled out the applications and called, but they're really looking for ex-military or ex-law enforcement. They didn't want average concerned citizens. I even asked about support functions like hospitality or something, and they still said no. It was almost like they didn't anticipate any increased need. Oh well, using this week to take care of some home improvements.)

Anyway, back to thread.

Thanks for the update. I do understand their desire to pick and choose though.

[Swordsmyth]

Wealth can buy power and power can buy liberty.

Poverty may leave you with "nothing to lose" but you can still lose your liberty by being imprisoned and you can still lose your life, meanwhile you have no power.

[oyarde]

I use my wealth as leverage to extort liberty from statists . I use fear too . They , for good reason fear me and I do not fear them so a draw is good , allowing me to do what I want and not be bothered .

[Working Poor]

I thik I am oe of the freest people you could ever meet and I am ot wealthy. Someone once said this to me:

"People hate you because you are too free"

That's their problem not mine. Money does not make you free the spirit does.

[Swordsmyth]

I thik I am oe of the freest people you could ever meet and I am ot wealthy. Someone once said this to me:

"People hate you because you are too free"

That's their problem not mine. Money does not make you free the spirit does.

Freedom of the mind/soul is different than freedom of the body, there are many thing the government won't let you do.

[CaptUSA]

I thik I am oe of the freest people you could ever meet and I am ot wealthy. Someone once said this to me:

"People hate you because you are too free"

That's their problem not mine. Money does not make you free the spirit does.

I agree with this. But wealth seems to make it much easier. It seems as though the State is fearful of wealth. So they leave us alone. This was not the case in the neighborhoods I grew up in.

[Suzanimal]

To a certain degree because you can afford to get yourself out of trouble.

I suspect looks play into it too. If you're well groomed, you get treated better. I'm not saying I give a crap if anyone is covered in tats and has long hair or whatever BUT the po-po are probably going to treat someone who doesn't look 'threatening' differently.

[Cleaner44]

Does Wealth Buy Liberty?

Yes... yes it does.

He's right you know.

[MelissaCrigo]

If they do,I have some news,and to some people it is not good news.My source is -er-wasits not there anymore the msn website.Anyway,it is NOT good news.They are going to close 50 stores in the U.S.,because Best Buy is supposedly going mobilenot sure what that means.What DOES it mean,by the way?.Anyone else hear this news?

[presence]

Wealth may buy privilege, entitlement, or fawning special favors.

Exercise alone buys liberty.

[jllundqu]

I absolutely think wealth can buy liberty. If I have the means to move to a country/area and be left the hell alone, maybe have a few local politicians in my pocket to ensure my continued isolation, I would call that better than the tax slave who is indentured and in debt up to his eyeballs with literally no freedom to choose a different path.

[TheCount]

Yes, absolutely. What you're describing is what SJWs refer to as privilege.

[VIDEODROME]

[Anti Federalist]

Yes, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

The more money you have at your disposal, the more free you can be, in every possible way.

[pcosmar]

I disagree..

I have made good money.. and had none.

I have been told I could purchase my 2nd amendment privilege again.. for more money than I have..

and I have been offered and declined approx $10k in firearms.. in honest charity.

I have found that wealth came with more restrictions and encumbrance,,

and I have a God that looks after my needs... and that is Liberty.

[CaptUSA]

Thanks, all, for indulging me. I'm fascinated by this dialogue. (Much better than the daily soap opera.)

Wealth may buy privilege, entitlement, or fawning special favors.

Exercise alone buys liberty.

This is a great post! Someone rep this man for me; I'm out! This is exactly what it is. Keep reading...

Yes, absolutely. What you're describing is what SJWs refer to as privilege.

Ok, but what if I earned my privileges? I mean, I didn't become "not poor" by luck and it certainly wasn't by birth rite. So does that mean the path to liberty comes by becoming more wealthy? Because then, we'd all have those privileges, right? Maybe if we all became more wealthy, the State would fear too many of us? Their entire reason for existence may evaporate?

Yes, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

The more money you have at your disposal, the more free you can be, in every possible way.

So instead of trying to convince people with our ideas which doesn't seem to be working, maybe we could convince them by showing them how to escape what the government is doing to them?

I've noticed a central theme, at least in my part of the country (Midwest / Rust Belt). You may have noticed it on RPF as well. It seems as though people are extremely concerned about their own liberty, but couldn't give a $#@! about anyone else's. They may gravitate to one party or the other, based on the kind of liberty that concerns them most personally (or just marketing). But they're all the same. They just want the government to work for them.

Almost no one cares about the liberty of all humankind. If you do, you are among the best and brightest. And I love you for that! You are what makes me keep coming back here. But, would it be possible to spread the liberty message by showing people how to escape the State? And they get wealthy by doing it? You don't have to go to some cabin in the woods to be free - you just have to "earn" enough to buy the privilege. How would the State respond?

The State encourages and sustains a systemic poverty for this reason. But there are ways out. What if we make it part of the liberty movement outreach to show people the way out? Then they serve as examples to those in those same neighborhoods. Just a thought. Please keep discussing.

[Anti Federalist]

So instead of trying to convince people with our ideas which doesn't seem to be working, maybe we could convince them by showing them how to escape what the government is doing to them?

I've noticed a central theme, at least in my part of the country (Midwest / Rust Belt). You may have noticed it on RPF as well. It seems as though people are extremely concerned about their own liberty, but couldn't give a $#@! about anyone else's. They may gravitate to one party or the other, based on the kind of liberty that concerns them most personally (or just marketing). But they're all the same. They just want the government to work for them.

Almost no one cares about the liberty of all humankind. If you do, you are among the best and brightest. And I love you for that! You are what makes me keep coming back here. But, would it be possible to spread the liberty message by showing people how to escape the State? And they get wealthy by doing it? You don't have to go to some cabin in the woods to be free - you just have to "earn" enough to buy the privilege. How would the State respond?

The State encourages and sustains a systemic poverty for this reason. But there are ways out. What if we make it part of the liberty movement outreach to show people the way out? Then they serve as examples to those in those same neighborhoods. Just a thought. Please keep discussing.

The cynic in me says that, while this is a noble idea, even creating wealth is not wanted, any more than freedom is.

Imagine Ron as president...imagine the shrieking as he dismantled the Fed for instance, or tried to institute sound money policies, or vetoed outrageous spending bills.

It would make what Trump gets on a daily basis look downright friendly.

Nope, people want what, let's face it, what they have always wanted:

To be fed.

To be entertained.

And to wield some petty power over their fellow man. This is crucial to understand: people will suffer under a tyranny of the very worst sort, will sit and take any level of government abuse, will stand idly by as their rights are trampled and the fruits of their labor taxed into oblivion...just so long as they figure the next guy is getting shafted just a little bit harder than they are.

[idiom]

The things you own, end up owning you.

[Working Poor]

Freedom of the mind/soul is different than freedom of the body, there are many thing the government won't let you do.

There is no way your body can be free if your mind is not. I say:

"free your mind and your @$$ will follow"-funkadelic

[Working Poor]

To a certain degree because you can afford to get yourself out of trouble.

I suspect looks play into it too. If you're well groomed, you get treated better. I'm not saying I give a crap if anyone is covered in tats and has long hair or whatever BUT the po-po are probably going to treat someone who doesn't look 'threatening' differently.

Some times keeping under the radar is the best thing if you value your freedom.

[osan]

This is a question I've been thinking about lately.

I suppose I ought to be running for the hills. Then again, I never was very smart...

Kris Kristofferson wrote that, "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose." I think there's a lot of truth to that idea and I championed it in my youth, but in my life I've been on both sides.

A semantically vague-at-best statement that can be interpreted in any of a number of ways, depending upon the assumptions with which it is approached.

I grew up dirt poor and I never felt free.

Sounds like a personal problem.

But now that I'm becoming more wealthy,

Define "wealthy".

I notice that my interactions with the State are becoming more and more infrequent.

Then don't worry, be happy... (that's sarcasm, in case you didn't quite get it)

As a long-haired teenager, I'd get hassled by the men in blue all the time. I'd get stopped, frisked, questioned, arrested and fined...

As a long-haired teenager, I was as a ghost, evading all detection. I was so naturally gifted in this way, I actually felt left out. Certain friends of mine would end up in jail, their parents having to come get them, and I was tempted to feel like I was missing something. Note "tempted". I was smarter than to fall for that feint but unmistakable odor of drama-queenery. But I did feel as if I were on the outside, looking in. And I was. Still am.

Now, they seem to fear me.

Emphasis on "seem". Oh, they probably do, but I doubt it is in the way your apparent tone would suggest. Get the wrong attention and you will join the legion of daisy-pushers, guaRONtee.

I drive around on expired plates, pay no attention to arbitrary speed limits, stop signs or traffic lights - I treat them as suggestions and will judge each situation myself. But I almost never get pulled over. When I do get stopped, they treat me with kid gloves - they just call things to my attention and tell me to have a nice day.

Do not misidentify one condition for another. That's all I will say about that.

I don't send my kids to government schools because I can afford private. I don't (often) travel using commercial airlines because I can afford charters;

I remember being wealthy. I am happy for your prosperity.

I have several "unpermitted" structures on my property, but I never get hassled about them.

Nothing terribly unique in this. I will add that the day MAY come when you will get that unwanted attention. May it never happen to you - or anyone else.

I just poured a 1500 ft^2 slumped slab behind my house, the plan being to increase the structure's footprint by that much. I don't advertise my actions, they don't come knocking. On a side note, the concrete company screwed me big time and now I have a floor unsuitable for my purposes, which was a machine shop in a portion thereof. Needed a slick finish, could not get it because of the ready mix company's compound errors. When a 6000# mill on machine dollies traverses a floor and encounters a small bump, the dollies stop dead. The machine keeps going. Machine hits floor. Machine turns to instant scrap. My life really sucks sometimes.

My tax burden is higher,

In 12 years of doing rather well, I paid zero taxes. I don't do tax burdens. Of course, I am now a market-worthless engineer who cannot get arrested, much less a client or other employers, so the question has been rendered moot in my case... at least for the time being. Tomorrow is always another day.

but my accountant does what she can to keep it as low as possible. When I was poor, I didn't file a tax return for years. It was just too much trouble and I didn't want to be bothered. But that got me noticed by the IRS. Now, I'm still not bothered with it - someone takes care of it for me. And if the IRS has any issues they'll contact her.

And if they have any REAL issues, they will contact YOU. Don't fall for the illusion, because that is all it is.

I've always tried to follow Harry Browne's advice on how to live free in an unfree world. But it just seems so much easier to avoid the State when you have the means. I suspect the more means you have, the easier it becomes. Is the key to liberty having enough wealth to purchase it?

Thoughts?

Nobody is safe from the "state". Not even the "state".

Were it politically expedient, Hillary Clinton's head would be on a pole, staked up real tall and plumb in front of the gates of the White House, and she may be the single most protected public figure on the planet.

NOBODY IS SAFE. Always remember that, and never forget it. I'm serious.

Be glad for this good fortune, but always be prepared in case things turn to feces. They likely will not, but what will you DO if something happens - something significant? And don't pimp that $#@! off on your lawyer, because they are officers of the court, beholden to them under strictures of "law" and procedure, etc. They may not be able or willing to help you... quite enough. This is the STATE, after all, and if Theye want you... get the drift?

Stay the hell off the radar is the best advice, stop $#@!ing around with expired plates and all that childish bull$#@! because if Theye notice you and decide to do you, no lawyer will preserve you because if Theye cannot get you into a cell, they most certainly can choose the economic nuclear option and there will be literally NOTHING you can do about it. Theye will financially crush you as not so much as an afterthought... but your lawyer will become loads wealthier in your frantic root to avoid a concrete cell.

So STFU, keep your head down, and enjoy your life, such as it may be.

[Working Poor]

I would rather see a capitalist society than a socalist society. I think a person can live better under the radar in a capitalist society.

[acptulsa]

It seems as though people are extremely concerned about their own liberty, but couldn't give a $#@! about anyone else's. They may gravitate to one party or the other, based on the kind of liberty that concerns them most personally (or just marketing). But they're all the same. They just want the government to work for them.

Almost no one cares about the liberty of all humankind. If you do, you are among the best and brightest. And I love you for that! You are what makes me keep coming back here. But, would it be possible to spread the liberty message by showing people how to escape the State?

Nope, people want what, let's face it, what they have always wanted:

To be fed.

To be entertained.

And to wield some petty power over their fellow man. This is crucial to understand: people will suffer under a tyranny of the very worst sort, will sit and take any level of government abuse, will stand idly by as their rights are trampled and the fruits of their labor taxed into oblivion...just so long as they figure the next guy is getting shafted just a little bit harder than they are.

Well of course such people exist. They always have. But are they a majority? The MSM wants us to believe they are. When they show progs, they point their cameras at the petty tyrants. When they show Christians, do they show them at the local homeless shelter handing out the food they were up early to cook? Of course not. They show the petty tyrants of Westboro Baptist. The more insulated we become sitting in our air conditioned living rooms watching our private televisions, the better they can convince us our neighbors are all wanna-be tinplate dictators.

That's how they keep us divided. That's how they keep us conquered. Why would we be stupid enough to help them do that?

Look at Trump supporters. Is Trump what they want? Or is Trump the best they figure they can get? And do they want to shaft the next guy, or is that the best they figure they can get?

Would they be happy to give as much liberty as they get if they actually knew their neighbors? After hours a day of MSM brainwashing convincing them all their neighbors are would-be tinpot tyrants (and convincing them all government workers are clean cut, movie star-handsome, and putting their butts on the line to make as many people as they can happy), are people afraid to give their neighbors as much freedom as they would like to have themselves?

I, for one, am not willing to cower in fear over the idea of my neighbors having freedom. And the best thing that can happen for this movement would be for people to realize that neighbors with freedom--be they purple-haired progs, be they brown and hard to understand, be they what ever--aren't ten percent as scary as the Megalomaniac Class inhabiting Washington, D.C.

Does wealth buy liberty? Does blood buy liberty? Or is it trust in your fellow man and a refusal to buy the bull$#@! that buys liberty? If we can only get as much liberty as we give to our equals, liberty cannot be bought at all. The only way to get it is to grant it.

[Swordsmyth]

There is no way your body can be free if your mind is not. I say:

"free your mind and your @$$ will follow"-funkadelic

All I know is that my mind is already free but my body isn't, I will therefore work on freeing my body.