Trump Supporters Are GW Bush Supporters LARPing As Ron Paul Supporters

[Swordsmyth]

Trump just granted clemency to one of the most crooked politicians in the history of Illinois, and you have the audacity to actually type with the same fingers that you fold in prayers to our God that Trump is a "possible good"? Can you not see how inconsistent you are, Swordsmyth?

For all the death, theft, and debt that our country has been involved in, yes, I'll demand "perfection" instead of "lesser evils" or "least of possible good." There's too much at stake to be compromising our values and standards at this point. Just look at the type of people who continue to occupy the Oval Office, and observe what our chambers of Congress have become. Our children ought to be ashamed of us for the world we're leaving to them.

There goes the "holier than thou" again.

It is possible for someone to be imperfect and be more good than bad.

You can demand perfection all you want but what you will get instead is deterioration from lesser and greater evils because you refuse to deal with imperfect goods.
Your way makes things worse.

[enhanced_deficit]

With close to 90% Republicans supporting Trump (allegedly, going by MSM polls) while he is sending thousands of more troops to mideast/escalating military strikes in Iraq AND about same %age of Republicans supporting Bush-Cheney during 3rd year of Bush term, there has to be a strong overlap between supporters of neocons led Bush-Cheney and globalist neocons funded Trump.

But Trump is not as disciplined and committed to any principle, even though both claimed to be Biblical Christians. Trump seems to go with the winds of populism and may have been even bigger interventionist than Bush-Cheney in 2003 when 70% of public supported Iraq freedom invasion.
On global internventions, more of the same but on social issues Trump is Left wing whereas Bush remained Right wing while he was in office. On gun control, LGBTQ civil rights/gay marriage (Bush second election strategy's major issue to mobilize GOP base) and to an extent on abortion/diversity models Trump is aligned with Left/Progressive Liberals. Part of it could be changing times/drifting Republican morality and part of it could be due to 'follow the money doctrine' as Trump's top donor couple are American-Israeli "democrats" with history of funding dems/liberals.

Bill Kristol,David Frum, Max Boot & some other Neocons left the Republican Party because of Trump opposition to the Iraq war.
The are the same people who said Pat Buchanan & Ron Paul should leave the Republican Party.
I'm thankful to Trump for this alone!

That is valid point, especially early on when he ran on "ending wars" many right-wing neocons denounced him.
But to be fair, since than quite a few neoconservatives seem to have reversed/come back "home". Dennis "immorality of leaving Iraq" Prager, Daniel Pipes, Lindsey Graham being some of them.

NEXODUS: Neoconservatives from both parties joining GOP-Adelson (MAGA)
True neoconservatives:
- Elliot Abrams (Rubio, Cruz adviser)
- Sheldon Adelson (Billionaire donor, Rubio backer)
- Sen. Kelly Ayotte
- Gary Bauer
- Cofer Black (Romney adviser)
- Brad Blakeman
- John Bolton (Cruz adviser)
...[/QUOTE]

Number two on the neocons master list, who happens to be his top funder, was recently honored by America-First MAGA:

Joe Lieberman
Lindsey Graham
Alan Dershowitz
Nikki Haley
Pompeo
Jarvanka


The Immorality of Leaving Iraq and Afghanistan
By Dennis Prager
Pentagon deploys American troops in Israel
March 10, 2019

The leftist trumpkin bushbots are on the ash-heap of history.

To be fair, Trump has been closer to Hillary , Bill Clinton over the decades than Bush.

[r3volution 3.0]

holier than thou

God wants America to exploit its financial position in financing those deficits and the largest welfare state in the world?

[r3volution 3.0]

@Swordsmyth,

Are you still suckling on the teet of the middle-aged game show host?

What do you think is going to happen, in terms of the next GDP report, with China basically collapsed?

...referring to the virus.

[parocks]

Is there a Trump supporter here that would have taken Trump over Rand?

I don't think so.

There are a lot who took Trump over Hillary. I don't think they were "duped." I think they knew they had a crappy choice and went with the least crappy.

The same thing is likely to happen this year.

In the mean time, the r3volution is doing absolutely nothing to prepare for 2024. We're pretty good at bitching and moaning though.

Our choices are always bad and worse. We're the ones who want the liberty. We never get what we want, it always gets worse.

[RonZeplin]

The Trumpkin bumpkin bushbots want us to choose the best socialist.

[dannno]

@Swordsmyth,

Are you still suckling on the teet of the middle-aged game show host?

What do you think is going to happen, in terms of the next GDP report, with China basically collapsed?

...referring to the virus.

Why did you think that I said that Rand was a Bush supporter?

[Theocrat]

There goes the "holier than thou" again.

It is possible for someone to be imperfect and be more good than bad.

You can demand perfection all you want but what you will get instead is deterioration from lesser and greater evils because you refuse to deal with imperfect goods.
Your way makes things worse.

In light of the quote in your signature from Alexis de Tocqueville, "You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith," can you explain to me where in the Scriptures is the method of "voting for the lesser of two evils (or least of possible goods)" supported as a righteous thing to do?

[Swordsmyth]

In light of the quote in your signature from Alexis de Tocqueville, "You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith," can you explain to me where in the Scriptures is the method of "voting for the lesser of two evils (or least of possible goods)" supported as a righteous thing to do?

I do not advocate for voting for the lesser of two evils, a least of all possible goods is good and we are instructed to support good and oppose evil many places in the scriptures.

Here is a good way to think about it:

Christians must support Samson–I mean, Donald Trump

[dannno]

In light of the quote in your signature from Alexis de Tocqueville, "You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith," can you explain to me where in the Scriptures is the method of "voting for the lesser of two evils (or least of possible goods)" supported as a righteous thing to do?

Ron Paul isn't perfect, Hillary is pure evil, Trump is somewhere in between those two.

Why not vote for the better candidate?

Ron Paul's main point back in the day was that there was not enough difference between Obama and McCain, or Obama and Romney, Or Bush and Kerry, or Bush and Gore to justify voting for any of them. That was because Bush doubled the size of government and started a bunch of wars, and Obama expanded the wars and Clinton were dropping bombs all over the place as well.

Ron Paul gave Trump a C- and that isn't bad considering pretty much all Presidents get an F. And Trump's grade by the end of his second term will be significantly higher, especially after he winds down these wars in the middle east.

[Theocrat]

I do not advocate for voting for the lesser of two evils, a least of all possible goods is good and we are instructed to support good and oppose evil many places in the scriptures.

Here is a good way to think about it:

Christians must support Samson–I mean, Donald Trump

First of all, Donald Trump is nowhere near the same type of man as Samson. I'm not going to lay out my theological arguments as to why that's the case, here, because I want to get to a more important point.

Last of all, your post didn't answer my question at all. I asked for Scriptural basis to support the idea that it's righteous (or moral) to vote for the lesser of two evils (or least of possible goods). You're a man of God, and I know you know the Scriptures, Swordsmyth. So please explain to me where in God's holy, inspired word He teaches that it's okay to have a voting ethic of choosing the lesser of two evils. I'm not looking for Biblical comparisons of Donald Trump to judges, prophets, nor apostles, which even to do so is insulting to those great men of the Faith, anyway.

[dannno]

I already explained it. SS +rep'd it. You didn't answer my post.

[ProBlue33]

As to the media for those of us here in 2008 and 2012, Ron and his supporters called it out, there was all kinds of "fake news" directed at him.
But the general public paid no attention, this time however everybody that doesn't have TDS can see the media spin BS daily and maybe they always did, but with phone camera's, and drones, and the internet that has sleuths on Reddit and 4Chan it gets exposed very quick.
Trump did that, not Ron, because he was just too nice.

The supreme court is where all these 50/50 polices are going, THAT is more important than anything else in America, and that is why many former Ron Paul supporters reluctantly vote for Trump. The next DNC President without a court to stop them will wipe out all the liberties this forum holds dear.
The supreme court is the only thing stopping a complete revaluation and definition of the 2nd and the end of gun rights in America.

And for those spouting off about the morality, think about this, 4 more years of Trump means we actually have a shot at slowing down the genocide of the unwanted unborn millions of aborted innocent babies, when he get more conservative judges on board stop the slaughter of the innocents.
This is the biggest travesty of morality currently.
http://www.numberofabortions.com/

So yeah former Ron Paul people either stick with their elite idealism, or decide having a drunken monkey put in conservative judges is worth all the other insanity, Trump will be gone soon enough, but those judges will be the Bulwark against stupidity against liberty for decades, and that is the bottom line.

[Swordsmyth]

First of all, Donald Trump is nowhere near the same type of man as Samson. I'm not going to lay out my theological arguments as to why that's the case, here, because I want to get to a more important point.

Last of all, your post didn't answer my question at all. I asked for Scriptural basis to support the idea that it's righteous (or moral) to vote for the lesser of two evils (or least of possible goods). You're a man of God, and I know you know the Scriptures, Swordsmyth. So please explain to me where in God's holy, inspired word He teaches that it's okay to have a voting ethic of choosing the lesser of two evils. I'm not looking for Biblical comparisons of Donald Trump to judges, prophets, nor apostles, which even to do so is insulting to those great men of the Faith, anyway.

You keep asking about the lesser of two evils, I don't support voting for the lesser of two evils.
A least of all possible goods is a GOOD.
Samson was an evil man and he was punished by GOD for his sins but he was used as GOD's instrument to deliver Israel.
Trump has many faults but he isn't as bad as Samson.

There are many places in scripture where we are admonished to support good and oppose evil.
Christ ate with the publicans and sinners and called Matthew the publican to follow him, he also gave us the parable of the Prodigal Son.
There are many examples in scripture of GOD using those who are very imperfect to do his work.

[Swordsmyth]

First of all, Donald Trump is nowhere near the same type of man as Samson. I'm not going to lay out my theological arguments as to why that's the case, here, because I want to get to a more important point.

Last of all, your post didn't answer my question at all. I asked for Scriptural basis to support the idea that it's righteous (or moral) to vote for the lesser of two evils (or least of possible goods). You're a man of God, and I know you know the Scriptures, Swordsmyth. So please explain to me where in God's holy, inspired word He teaches that it's okay to have a voting ethic of choosing the lesser of two evils. I'm not looking for Biblical comparisons of Donald Trump to judges, prophets, nor apostles, which even to do so is insulting to those great men of the Faith, anyway.

How about Nebuchadnezzar?

Daniel served him and acknowledged him as GOD's choice to rule the region and he was FAR from perfect.

[tfurrh]

How about Nebuchadnezzar?

Is that that new Kanye opera?

[Swordsmyth]

First of all, Donald Trump is nowhere near the same type of man as Samson. I'm not going to lay out my theological arguments as to why that's the case, here, because I want to get to a more important point.

Last of all, your post didn't answer my question at all. I asked for Scriptural basis to support the idea that it's righteous (or moral) to vote for the lesser of two evils (or least of possible goods). You're a man of God, and I know you know the Scriptures, Swordsmyth. So please explain to me where in God's holy, inspired word He teaches that it's okay to have a voting ethic of choosing the lesser of two evils. I'm not looking for Biblical comparisons of Donald Trump to judges, prophets, nor apostles, which even to do so is insulting to those great men of the Faith, anyway.

I generally don't support the lesser of two evils but I can give you a scriptural example:

Genesis
Chapter 14

1 And it came to pass in the days of Amraphel king of Shinar, Arioch king of Ellasar, Chedorlaomer king of Elam, and Tidal king of nations;
2 That these made war with Bera king of Sodom, and with Birsha king of Gomorrah, Shinab king of Admah, and Shemeber king of Zeboiim, and the king of Bela, which is Zoar.
3 All these were joined together in the vale of Siddim, which is the salt sea.
4 Twelve years they served Chedorlaomer, and in the thirteenth year they rebelled.
5 And in the fourteenth year came Chedorlaomer, and the kings that were with him, and smote the Rephaims in Ashteroth Karnaim, and the Zuzims in Ham, and the Emims in Shaveh Kiriathaim,
6 And the Horites in their mount Seir, unto Elparan, which is by the wilderness.
7 And they returned, and came to Enmishpat, which is Kadesh, and smote all the country of the Amalekites, and also the Amorites, that dwelt in Hazezontamar.
8 And there went out the king of Sodom, and the king of Gomorrah, and the king of Admah, and the king of Zeboiim, and the king of Bela (the same is Zoar;) and they joined battle with them in the vale of Siddim;
9 With Chedorlaomer the king of Elam, and with Tidal king of nations, and Amraphel king of Shinar, and Arioch king of Ellasar; four kings with five.
10 And the vale of Siddim was full of slimepits; and the kings of Sodom and Gomorrah fled, and fell there; and they that remained fled to the mountain.
11 And they took all the goods of Sodom and Gomorrah, and all their victuals, and went their way.
12 And they took Lot, Abram's brother's son, who dwelt in Sodom, and his goods, and departed.
13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these were confederate with Abram.
14 And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan.
15 And he divided himself against them, he and his servants, by night, and smote them, and pursued them unto Hobah, which is on the left hand of Damascus.
16 And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.

[Swordsmyth]

Is that that new Kanye opera?

I think I heard something about that but I don't know.

[kahless]

@Theocrat

Even if you think you are voting for the lesser of two evils, the less evil one appointed and may appoint another Supreme Court judge that will result in less evil - abortions.

The choice between less abortions and more abortions. Less people die under Trump even if it is believed he is the lesser of evil.

Foreign policy, his opposition is far more militant and confrontational. Therefore potentially less deaths under Trump.

Look at the comments of Obama and Bloomberg on the elderly. Deny coverage, let them die and they want to control your healthcare. Again, less deaths under Trump.

[nobody's_hero]

Our choices are always bad and worse. We're the ones who want the liberty. We never get what we want, it always gets worse.

What are we doing to make our choices better?

You can't be active during election years, get stomped, and then go hide in the exclusive libertarian treehouse club until it's election year again. It doesn't seem to be an effective strategy.

[Sammy]

Ron Paul isn't perfect, Hillary is pure evil, Trump is somewhere in between those two.

Why not vote for the better candidate?

Ron Paul's main point back in the day was that there was not enough difference between Obama and McCain, or Obama and Romney, Or Bush and Kerry, or Bush and Gore to justify voting for any of them. That was because Bush doubled the size of government and started a bunch of wars, and Obama expanded the wars and Clinton were dropping bombs all over the place as well.

Ron Paul gave Trump a C- and that isn't bad considering pretty much all Presidents get an F. And Trump's grade by the end of his second term will be significantly higher, especially after he winds down these wars in the middle east.

Ron Paul is right on 95-98%. Trump is right on 60%-70%. Hillary is right on 0%.
C- isn't bad that bad. Because I'm sure Ron Paul would give almost all presidents since FDR an F!

[Swordsmyth]

What are we doing to make our choices better?

You can't be active during election years, get stomped, and then go hide in the exclusive libertarian treehouse club until it's election year again. It doesn't seem to be an effective strategy.

I'll keep working with Republicans and sinners and let the libertarian scribes and pharisees sit around feeling holier than me while getting nothing done.

[devil21]

I'll keep working with Republicans and sinners and let the libertarian scribes and pharisees sit around feeling holier than me while getting nothing done.

Good point. Getting stuff done, like passing the UN's 3000 page USMCA treaty, is too important to just sit around and get nothing done. We most certainly need corporate government doing things in order to move forward. Not getting enough stuff done has been where government has failed us all. The US Code and the Code of Federal Regulations are still way too small.

[Swordsmyth]

Good point. Getting stuff done, like passing the UN's 3000 page USMCA treaty, is too important to just sit around and get nothing done. We most certainly need corporate government doing things in order to move forward. Not getting enough stuff done has been where government has failed us all. The US Code and the Code of Federal Regulations are still way too small.

Trump has done far more good than bad.
And we DO need things done to change the status quo because of all the bad things that were done in the past.

[Todd]

You can't call someone like Edward Snowden "a total traitor," but then turn around and claim you're going to "drain the swamp." The two sentiments are simply contradictory.

Ding ding ding!!!!!!

[devil21]

Trump has done far more good than bad.
And we DO need things done to change the status quo because of all the bad things that were done in the past.

We must add to the regulations to roll back regulations. Just like we had to abandon the free market to save the free market.

Or we could roll back all regulations and let the UN handle it all. That is most certainly cutting government regulation to the bone and very conservative values.

[Swordsmyth]

We must add to the regulations to roll back regulations. Just like we had to abandon the free market to save the free market.

Or we could roll back all regulations and let the UN handle it all. That is most certainly cutting government regulation to the bone and very conservative values.

Trump is shredding regulations.
And he is finding creative ways to add regulations that actually undo regulations to get around the red tape about regulations, like creating a new category of "fast dishwasher" that is exempt from the water regulations.

He is also cutting off the money to the UN and other globalist institutions.

[devil21]

Trump is shredding regulations.
And he is finding creative ways to add regulations that actually undo regulations to get around the red tape about regulations, like creating a new category of "fast dishwasher" that is exempt from the water regulations.

Indeed, that is progress. We must add regulation to remove regulation, instead of just removing regulation. If those pesky Dems oppose it then the conservative answer should be to add more regulations that reinforce the regulations that removed the regulation that added regulation. We should surely experience liberty then, no?

He is also cutting off the money to the UN and other globalist institutions.

I believe you but perhaps you can cite a source for this executive or legislative action? Asking for a friend.

[Swordsmyth]

Indeed, that is progress. We must add regulation to remove regulation, instead of just removing regulation. If those pesky Dems oppose it then the conservative answer should be to add more regulations that reinforce the regulations that removed the regulation that added regulation. We should surely experience liberty then, no?

He is doing BOTH.
There are stupid laws that impede his ability to just shred all the regulations.

I believe you but perhaps you can cite a source for this executive or legislative action? Asking for a friend.

UN Chief Fears "Brush With Bankruptcy", Urges Members To Send Cash

World Trade Organization Becomes Irrelevant on Wednesday, Thanks to Trump

[Theocrat]

Ron Paul isn't perfect, Hillary is pure evil, Trump is somewhere in between those two.

Why not vote for the better candidate?

Ron Paul's main point back in the day was that there was not enough difference between Obama and McCain, or Obama and Romney, Or Bush and Kerry, or Bush and Gore to justify voting for any of them. That was because Bush doubled the size of government and started a bunch of wars, and Obama expanded the wars and Clinton were dropping bombs all over the place as well.

Ron Paul gave Trump a C- and that isn't bad considering pretty much all Presidents get an F. And Trump's grade by the end of his second term will be significantly higher, especially after he winds down these wars in the middle east.

I disagree with you about Dr. Paul not being perfect. He was a perfect statesman, in the sense that he understood, promoted, and sought to legislate in matters that consisted with private citizens keeping their lives, their liberties, and their properties without intrusions by the central government. He even maintained a perfect score with all of his votes being 100% in accordance with the U.S. Constitution.

I really don't care if Dr. Paul gave Trump a "C-" grade, though I understand his reasons why. There's no way Trump is going to deal with the root causes of the problems in our foreign and domestic policies; all he's going to do is post Twitter messages, gloat about how he has "kept promises," and continue to surround himself with neoconservatives from "the swamp." Trump is not a Constitutionalist, and that's what we need, at the very least, to begin reforming all of these bad policies we have accumulated in D.C.