Reddit Trolls Wall St. Hedge Funds, Buying Up GameStop Stock

[Invisible Man]

Am I right that the thing that instigated this was hedge funds short selling the stock, and maybe more specifically that they engaged in naked short selling it, up to the point of selling an amount of shares that exceeded the amount in existence?

And somehow these little guy investors saw some kind of injustice in that, which it was up to all of them to stop?

Is that basically the gist of it? Or was there something more that made the alleged bad guys here especially morally repugnant?

I'm not asking about the subsequent actions on the parts of Robinhood and others to stifle this. I'm just asking about the initial instigation.

[wizardwatson]

Am I right that the thing that instigated this was hedge funds short selling the stock, and maybe more specifically that they engaged in naked short selling it, up to the point of selling an amount of shares that exceeded the amount in existence?

And somehow these little guy investors saw some kind of injustice in that, which it was up to all of them to stop?

Is that basically the gist of it? Or was there something more that made the alleged bad guys here especially morally repugnant?

I'm not asking about the subsequent actions on the parts of Robinhood and others to stifle this. I'm just asking about the initial instigation.

It's a short squeeze, the enemy of the short sellers.

These can occur from "natural market forces".

The "grown up" position is that "shorting" is natural price mechanism, while this particular short squeeze (the enemy of short sellers) is a bunch of angry bubblegummers who need to get a life (aka 'not natural market force')

The underdog WSB position is that "shorting" in and of itself is wall street greed, and that someone else could have done this same squeezing tactic within wall street and it would've been ok, but since it was the unwashed masses, they're being attacked.

Essentially, you've got the kids screaming "double standard" and you've got the educated market savvy adults crying vandalism, and gatekeepers like Shapiro saying "wall street provides a service".

But I don't think there's deep moral repugnancy. It's business as usual on wall street, and revenge fantasy as usual with the plebes. Question is what will end result be, and who will benefit.

[69360]

Am I right that the thing that instigated this was hedge funds short selling the stock, and maybe more specifically that they engaged in naked short selling it, up to the point of selling an amount of shares that exceeded the amount in existence?

And somehow these little guy investors saw some kind of injustice in that, which it was up to all of them to stop?

Is that basically the gist of it? Or was there something more that made the alleged bad guys here especially morally repugnant?

I'm not asking about the subsequent actions on the parts of Robinhood and others to stifle this. I'm just asking about the initial instigation.

That is about right. It seems like some of them are willing to lose all their money to prove some point?

[Invisible Man]

It's a short squeeze, the enemy of the short sellers.

These can occur from "natural market forces".

The "grown up" position is that "shorting" is natural price mechanism, while this particular short squeeze (the enemy of short sellers) is a bunch of angry bubblegummers who need to get a life (aka 'not natural market force')

The underdog WSB position is that "shorting" in and of itself is wall street greed, and that someone else could have done this same squeezing tactic within wall street and it would've been ok, but since it was the unwashed masses, they're being attacked.

Essentially, you've got the kids screaming "double standard" and you've got the educated market savvy adults crying vandalism, and gatekeepers like Shapiro saying "wall street provides a service".

But I don't think there's deep moral repugnancy. It's business as usual on wall street, and revenge fantasy as usual with the plebes. Question is what will end result be, and who will benefit.

So do you perceive the short squeeze here was done (whether by bubble gummers or anyone else) with the intent of profiting financially?

I mean, yeah that's generally the point. But it seems like something more going on here about trying to punish the ones who shorted it in the first place.

[wizardwatson]

So do you perceive the short squeeze here was done (whether by bubble gummers or anyone else) with the intent of profiting financially?

I mean, yeah that's generally the point. But it seems like something more going on here about trying to punish the ones who shorted it in the first place.

People are profiting financially, but the WSB mantra was always, "we can stay rutarded longer than you can stay solvent". So certainly there's a populist theme that wants to punish the shorters.

So yeah, the "someone could have squeezed them anyway" is the defense I guess, whereas the impetus is "beating them". It's understood, that given that the stock would inevitably come down, many who helped pump would lose money. It was a very kamikaze plan from beginning.

You have a lot of memes and comments to that effect.

One of my favorites I read today was:

"If wall street had ever bothered to look at our Steam accounts, they'd realize we have no problem dropping $40 on something and never touching it again."

[A Son of Liberty]

@Brian4Liberty This should be in the US Politics subforum. It's clearly a topic beyond economy and markets, and it certainly deserves that kind of traffic.

[Invisible Man]

People are profiting financially, but the WSB mantra was always, "we can stay rutarded longer than you can stay solvent". So certainly there's a populist theme that wants to punish the shorters.

Some are bound to profit. But for those who bought and held, the current gains are unrealized. For them to be realized, they have to sell the stock, and once that happens en masse (which it must at some point, unless this somehow turns into making a charity case out of poor little GameStop), the price will fall like a rock, and a lot of people will lose money, which I get they seem to be fine with. So for the short squeezers, whether they win or lose will come down to timing and luck for the individual investors, with I expect a lot more losers than winners.

Which keeps bringing me back to the question of what was their real motivation in the first place. I can't tell if it's mainly rooted in believing that the ultra-rich are their enemies or what.

I mean, it's not like short selling stocks was some controversial thing that hoards of common people were itching to fight against a week ago. Unless it was and I never noticed.

[wizardwatson]

Some are bound to profit. But for those who bought and held, the current gains are unrealized. For them to be realized, they have to sell the stock, and once that happens en masse (which it must at some point, unless this somehow turns into making a charity case out of poor little GameStop), the price will fall like a rock, and a lot of people will lose money, which I get they seem to be fine with. So for the short squeezers, whether they win or lose will come down to timing and luck for the individual investors, with I expect a lot more losers than winners.

Which keeps bringing me back to the question of what was their real motivation in the first place. I can't tell if it's mainly rooted in believing that the ultra-rich are their enemies or what.

I mean, it's not like short selling stocks was some controversial thing that hoards of common people were itching to fight against a week ago. Unless it was and I never noticed.

Yes, why out of the blue, why now?

Sure there's lots of contributing factors: Covid, stimmy checks, slow news cycle now that Trump's gone...

But there are numerous "bubblegummers" making money on the squeeze who are former hedge fund people. Portnoy-for instance-the most vocal front man I've seen is supposedly millions in on the underdog side. Another guy used to work for a hedge fund, then there's people like Chamath and probably many like him we don't see.

But who knows the ultimate history?

We can only speculate-without hard evidence and investigation-so we wait and see who benefits.

Is it legit organic, and like a palestinian boy throwing rocks at a tank, bound to be run over, ignored and forgotten?

Or is it a cybernetic organism, living tissue over a metal endoskeleton:

[wizardwatson]

My other point, someone mentioned in a ZH comment, this could be a coordinated effort to soften up the short seller position in preparation for the Big Dump.


I'm not even sure what that means, but short sellers are a dymanic in the market that I assume dampens downward momentum. So the cynical perspective is this is a pre-crash ploy to make future crash more severe.

Hence, Terminator.

[Occam's Banana]

From GameStop to Robinhood Class Action Lawsuit? Lawyer Explains - Viva Frei Vlawg
A breakdown of the GameStop situation and how it lead to a class action lawsuit against Robinhood trading.
https://rumble.com/vde6qd-gamestop-r...rei-vlawg.html

[Brian4Liberty]

The best thing about this whole episode is that it's so new that the public doesn't know where to stand on it. Meaning, they haven't gotten their team's talking points yet.

I love when that happens.

You've got AOC and Tucker lining up on the same side. The public is confused on what the "right" answer is for their tribe.


TELL ME WHAT TO THINK, DAMMIT!!!

Considering they have accused the Reddit guys social media forums of sex trafficking and racism, the left should know who to hate any time now.

Am I right that the thing that instigated this was hedge funds short selling the stock, and maybe more specifically that they engaged in naked short selling it, up to the point of selling an amount of shares that exceeded the amount in existence?

And somehow these little guy investors saw some kind of injustice in that, which it was up to all of them to stop?

Is that basically the gist of it? Or was there something more that made the alleged bad guys here especially morally repugnant?

I'm not asking about the subsequent actions on the parts of Robinhood and others to stifle this. I'm just asking about the initial instigation.

I can't post a specific article or video, as I have watched a lot of them at this point. It is more than just one motivating factor. It's not as simple as it sounds. As best as I can tell, here's my understanding of the history:

- COVID shuts down malls, stocks get hammered, especially brick and mortar shops like Gamestop.

- Some of these young people who just started investing invest in Gamestop, because they grew up going there, and want to help it through the shutdowns.

- Some Wall Street people on TV try to talk the stock down. (Probably shorting behind the scenes).

- Chewy.com founder Ryan Cohen, a newly minted billionaire invests in Gamestop, and starts publicly giving advise to Gamestop management, talking up a whole new online business model.

- Gamestop puts Cohen on the Board and hires a couple of his best developers to pursue new business plan.

- More back and forth between long investors and Wall St. shorters, most vocally Gabe Plotkin of Melvin Capital starts online battles with the pro-Gamestop investors.

- All of the long investors get pissed about Plotkin and others shorting Gamestop to drive it down. Some of them discover that Gamestop is way over shorted, over 100%. (Charles Payne has reported on that fact for a while).

- The Reddit crowd finds out what a short squeeze is, and the possibility of driving the price of the stock through the roof, while hammering loud mouth hedge fund managers at the same time.

- Other people get involved on both sides, and the stock starts to take off.

- The controversy ensues.

[Brian4Liberty]

...
Portnoy-for instance-the most vocal front man I've seen is supposedly millions in on the underdog side.
...

Methinks that Portnoy's loud mouth may buy him a jail cell before too long.

[69360]

Some are bound to profit. But for those who bought and held, the current gains are unrealized. For them to be realized, they have to sell the stock, and once that happens en masse (which it must at some point, unless this somehow turns into making a charity case out of poor little GameStop), the price will fall like a rock, and a lot of people will lose money, which I get they seem to be fine with. So for the short squeezers, whether they win or lose will come down to timing and luck for the individual investors, with I expect a lot more losers than winners.

Which keeps bringing me back to the question of what was their real motivation in the first place. I can't tell if it's mainly rooted in believing that the ultra-rich are their enemies or what.

I mean, it's not like short selling stocks was some controversial thing that hoards of common people were itching to fight against a week ago. Unless it was and I never noticed.

I think they got really pissed off when robinhood conspired with the hedge funds and restricted trading. That seemed to be the turning point where they really wanted to $#@! over wall street.

Personally if I had been able to buy the stock early enough I would have sold at $400+ and laughed at everyone.

[Occam's Banana]

"Because Trump ..."

From CNN: How Trumpism explains the GameStop stock surge

And then there's this:

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/statu...52902684372995

And this:

https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/statu...71413632700428

[acptulsa]

We've gone from "too big to fail" to "too big to be spanked".

[Brian4Liberty]

"Because Trump ..."

From CNN: How Trumpism explains the GameStop stock surge

And then there's this:

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/statu...52902684372995

...

Yeah, the left will definitely know who to hate by next week.

And this:

https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/statu...71413632700428

LOL. They are shameless. They may want to explain this conspiracy theory of theirs to Ryan Cohen and Dave Portnoy (big Gamestop supporters).

[Occam's Banana]

Another clown show Bozo chimes in:

https://twitter.com/stacyherbert/sta...23801286938625

So for those not keeping score at home, this whole GameStop affair is apparently the doing of Trump-supporting Capitol-invading antisemitic Russians ... (so far ...)

[wizardwatson]

"Because Trump ..."

From CNN: How Trumpism explains the GameStop stock surge

And then there's this:

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/statu...52902684372995

Another clown show Bozo chimes in:

https://twitter.com/stacyherbert/sta...23801286938625

...

Here again though, we have to be smarter.

We know these people have talking points.
We know these social media movements like BLM, Proud Boys, Antifa, MAGA, QAnon are all part organic part co-opted.

Today we feel compelled to side with 2 to 5 million strong reddit stock buyers.

What does the talking point of accusing them of being terrorists and Russians accomplish?

It has the effect that people believe they are legitimate because they are being attacked.

When my enemy attacks a stranger, I feel like we are on the same side. They become credible by virtue of a narrative I only received from the MSM, albeit in a negative way.

[Occam's Banana]

...

Here again though, we have to be smarter.

We know these people have talking points.
We know these social media movements like BLM, Proud Boys, Antifa, MAGA, QAnon are all part organic part co-opted.

Today we feel compelled to side with 2 to 5 million strong reddit stock buyers.

What does the talking point of accusing them of being terrorists and Russians accomplish?

It has the effect that people believe they are legitimate because they are being attacked.

When my enemy attacks a stranger, I feel like we are on the same side. They become credible by virtue of a narrative I only received from the MSM, albeit in a negative way.

I'm not on anyone's "side" in this.

I'm just sittin' here with my popcorn enjoying the farce ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVXR2LYeFBI

[wizardwatson]

I'm not on anyone's "side" in this.

I'm just sittin' here with my popcorn enjoying the farce.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVXR2LYeFBI

Great.

My position as a poster here, as I've often reminded other posters over the years, is that generally speaking I'm writing for the general reader. Sometimes I'm talking directly to someone, but it's rare and this isn't one of those cases.

I see specific qualitative judgements on personalities pointless when I'm dealing with 99%+ anonymous entities, or entities so far out of my social circles that I'm a speck of sand on the seashore.

Just singing in the dark my friend.

Carry on.

[Occam's Banana]

So for those not keeping score at home, this whole GameStop affair is apparently the doing of Trump-supporting Capitol-invading antisemitic Russians ... (so far ...)

Make that Trump-supporting Capitol-invading antisemitic Russian Nazis (of course) ...

https://twitter.com/LPMisesCaucus/st...75566384410632

[dannno]

https://twitter.com/Jevaughn_Brown/s...36244016926720

[dannno]

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/sta...11176960012289

There was also another tweet that Psaki's brother worked as a portfolio manager at Citadel, one of the funds getting slammed by this. But it turns out that may be false.

[devil21]

Again, who benefits from this?

How do we know the buyers are organic and not foreign actors or just other wall street cats playing a game?

We will see I guess. If it is organic, it will likely be killed and phase out and the proverbial "we" will have wasted their time. If it isn't organic, and there's an ulterior motive here, that motive is not likely in the interest of the underdogs.

We latch on to every MSM stoked "revolution" while we do nothing to build our own.

"Ron Paul cured my apathy."

...but then we all fell off the wagon and we're snorting big fat lines of "this can go viral!" every 10 minutes.

I'm as happy as anyone to strap on a tinfoil hat but I'm not yet convinced it was a fully engineered example. I've been a reader of WSB for months and watched this sprout. The lengths Wall St is now going to contain this makes me think it was mostly organic, also. My bs meter is usually pretty good. It has, however, presented itself as something to be taken advantage of to forward certain goals, if it wasn't engineered. Having said that I think a major crash is starting and it provides a decent scapegoat cover story for it. They're putting up razor wire 10ft fences around the Capitol building and maintaining a guard contingent for a reason. I assume we'll see soon why. February is going to be very interesting...

At least it's been entertaining and (from one 2007 join date RPFer to another 2007 join date RPFer) it's always enjoyable to see some revolution in action, no?
The key to revolution is to control what comes out of it. Engineering it doesn't guarantee an outcome. Controlling the outcome requires successfully placing the "leaders" out front and requires the masses embrace them and the agenda they're pushing, also. Portnoy is example of a controlled "leader" to trying to co-opt. He's already pushing banker-invention cryptocurrency. He lost all credibility as a man-of-the-people when he sold his relatively small company to a Wall St darling gambling firm for a couple hundred million bucks. From what I've seen people in the WSB/kill the hedgies circles, they aren't buying what he's selling. They're generally smarter than the average people in the first place.


eta: This has also shown me how even very savvy investors/traders aren't really aware of how Wall St really works, with the fact that all shares and contracts are owned by the DTC/Cede&Co and NOT the investor/trader. Also, that very few understand that Wall St is quite literally at war with Americans, engages in sheer piracy and continues to demonstrate it over and over. They exist to pillage.

[dannno]

eta: This has also shown me how even very savvy investors/traders aren't really aware of how Wall St really works, with the fact that all shares and contracts are owned by the DTC/Cede&Co and NOT the investor/trader.

Ya, the fallacies are abounding on both sides, but still rooting for team pleb.

[Swordsmyth]

[Okie RP fan]

That is about right. It seems like some of them are willing to lose all their money to prove some point?

Yes, that is exactly right. Apparently many of them are out to send a message and for a lot it's emotional/personal. Not 100% sure how. On one hand, they're doing mostly what the big pockets folks do, but on the other, they're doing exactly what the big pockets do... Sure, it's a "taste of your own medicine" but there's also a lot of these "revolutionaries" (and other normal people just jumping into the fray) making some money doing this. Are they going to donate those earnings? Are they going to happily fork up the capital gains taxes? Hypothetical questions, we already know the answers...

The other end of the stick is that this could be the catalyst for some big market moves. Ones that may come back to bite a lot of people in the butts and possibly have unintended consequences.

Of course, I think most people, no matter political affiliation, would agree with the notion that the little guy should be able to play the game without having rules suddenly interjected when they start winning. And billionaires, hedge funds, brokers, etc. shouldn't be protected by the Fed or Congress. The problem I'm currently seeing is this is yet another loosely organized mob doing something that sets a hot fire at first, but will either die out without doing as much damage as originally intended or be abruptly put out.

We'll see. Even though these people could be biting off more than they can chew, and causing a $#@! storm for the rest of us, I'm "rooting" for them very passively on the sidelines. If only because the entire system is so $#@!ed up that I'm willing to pay an admission to watch it start burning in some form.

[The Northbreather]

This is a great example of voluntary collectivism.

I am approve

[Krugminator2]

[wizardwatson]

I'm as happy as anyone to strap on a tinfoil hat but I'm not yet convinced it was a fully engineered example. I've been a reader of WSB for months and watched this sprout. The lengths Wall St is now going to contain this makes me think it was mostly organic, also. My bs meter is usually pretty good. It has, however, presented itself as something to be taken advantage of to forward certain goals, if it wasn't engineered. Having said that I think a major crash is starting and it provides a decent scapegoat cover story for it. They're putting up razor wire 10ft fences around the Capitol building and maintaining a guard contingent for a reason. I assume we'll see soon why. February is going to be very interesting...

At least it's been entertaining and (from one 2007 join date RPFer to another 2007 join date RPFer) it's always enjoyable to see some revolution in action, no?
The key to revolution is to control what comes out of it. Engineering it doesn't guarantee an outcome. Controlling the outcome requires successfully placing the "leaders" out front and requires the masses embrace them and the agenda they're pushing, also. Portnoy is example of a controlled "leader" to trying to co-opt. He's already pushing banker-invention cryptocurrency. He lost all credibility as a man-of-the-people when he sold his relatively small company to a Wall St darling gambling firm for a couple hundred million bucks. From what I've seen people in the WSB/kill the hedgies circles, they aren't buying what he's selling. They're generally smarter than the average people in the first place.


eta: This has also shown me how even very savvy investors/traders aren't really aware of how Wall St really works, with the fact that all shares and contracts are owned by the DTC/Cede&Co and NOT the investor/trader. Also, that very few understand that Wall St is quite literally at war with Americans, engages in sheer piracy and continues to demonstrate it over and over. They exist to pillage.

Question the MSM narrative on RPF is "tinfoil"?

The ghost of Christopher A. Brown is my spirit animal, bro.

If we were real activists doing real things, I would be happy to oblige notions of "staying with the group" and "putting away my tinfoil hat".

But as long as we are stuck in the Matrix, surrounded by phantoms and hallucinations exacerbated by constantly hitting our MSM feeder bars for our next dopamine pellet, you can count on wiz to pop those balloons...time permitting.