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Thread: Ford: US steel most expensive thanks to Trump tariffs

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Tariffs are corporate welfare. They take money from consumers and steel using industries and gives it to steel producers. Yes, there are costs.
    Citizen welfare is globalist corporation, unfair trade deal, subsidy. They place the burden of unproductive livelihood on the backs of those that actually do manage to scrimmage a living.

    Government WELFARE is a subsidy by a country unable, or unwilling, to promote, protect and market it's own industries.

    Turn off the welfare spigot tomorrow. There is not enough opportunities for gainful employment. Give it one month then tell me where this nation will be at as far as a "civilization."



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    What is that trade deficit?
    Steel accounts for less than $1 billion of our $500 billion trade deficit with China. And that deficit has been rising- not falling- since Trump started his tariff wars. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/05/us-t...n-3-years.html
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 10-22-2018 at 06:08 PM.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    I just point out the facts as I understand them. If you're drawing inferences about my opinions from my posts that is your own doing.
    You oppose the defensive tariffs, that means you want to keep doing the things that you just admitted were part of the globalists' plan.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Steel accounts for less than $1 billion of our $500 billion trade deficit with China.
    Every bit counts and steel is more strategic than most of the cheap plastic junk they dump on our markets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    And that deficit has been rising- not falling- since Trump started his tariff wars.
    A temporary bump caused by panic buying to beat the tariffs.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Every bit counts and steel is more strategic than most of the cheap plastic junk they dump on our markets.


    A temporary bump caused by panic buying to beat the tariffs.
    Steel tariffs went into effect in May. The trade deficit with China soared ten percent for the month of July.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Steel tariffs went into effect in May. The trade deficit with China soared ten percent for the month of July.
    And you expect me to forget that there are other tariffs that have been announced and even more that are expected?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Steel accounts for less than $1 billion of our $500 billion trade deficit with China. And that deficit has been rising- not falling- since Trump started his tariff wars.
    One component, Zip. Just one. One that is coming back. Let me ask you this. And please no graphs. It's obviously cheaper to buy Chinese or other foreign steel. Shouldn't America just fold up and quit producing? Everyone is obviously doing better at it than us. So why even do it? Again. No graphs, please.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Steel tariffs went into effect in May. The trade deficit with China soared ten percent for the month of July.
    Dumping.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    One component, Zip. Just one. One that is coming back. Let me ask you this. And please no graphs. It's obviously cheaper to buy Chinese or other foreign steel. Shouldn't America just fold up and quit producing? Everyone is obviously doing better at it than us. So why even do it? Again. No graphs, please.
    Nobody saying they should "fold up and quit producing". The US is the fourth largest producer of steel in the world. But if I can buy something cheaper from one producer over another should I buy the most expensive instead? Should the government decide what prices should be by adding tariffs to certain products? (Ford- the subject of the OP was already using American steel to produce their cars in the US). Should Ford be put at a competitive disadvantage so US Steel can be more competitive? Should the government be picking winners and losers in the economy?

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Nobody saying they should "fold up and quit producing". The US is the fourth largest producer of steel in the world. But if I can buy something cheaper from one producer over another should I buy the most expensive instead? Should the government decide what prices should be by adding tariffs to certain products? (Ford- the subject of the OP was already using American steel to produce their cars in the US). Should Ford be put at a competitive disadvantage so US Steel can be more competitive? Should the government be picking winners and losers in the economy?
    So Ford was relying on reduced prices of American steel, because of unfair trade practices, caused by foreign government subsidies to produce cheap steel, and now they are bitching because the market, the U.S. market, is correcting former unfair trade practices? Cry me a river.
    The largest "subsidy" for globalist corporations is the U.S. welfare system. If Americans cannot find gainful employment then it becomes a nation of corporate welfare. Which has been a progressive push for far too long.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You oppose the defensive tariffs, that means you want to keep doing the things that you just admitted were part of the globalists' plan.
    I oppose rising prices caused by central bank controlled monetary policy, yes. The simple fact is that the tariff policy is not Trump's policy. It is the policy (cover story) of the bankers that surround Trump, who happen to be the same ones (Wilbur Ross, long time Rothschild lackey, for example) that initiated the policy that led to the trade deficits in the first place. So, in other words, if one supports the tariff policy/cover story one is still supporting central bank controlled monetary policy. That is the facts of the situation. Whatever inferences you draw from my posts are clearly very shallow inferences.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    I oppose rising prices caused by central bank controlled monetary policy, yes. The simple fact is that the tariff policy is not Trump's policy. It is the policy (cover story) of the bankers that surround Trump, who happen to be the same ones (Wilbur Ross, long time Rothschild lackey, for example) that initiated the policy that led to the trade deficits in the first place. So, in other words, if one supports the tariff policy/cover story one is still supporting central bank controlled monetary policy. That is the facts of the situation. Whatever inferences you draw from my posts are clearly very shallow inferences.
    You don't get to pretend that monetary policy is the only factor in the world or that the oligarch's aren't trying to build up China and make America dependent on our enemies so that we can be subjected to world government, they have openly talked about their plans.

    The banker types that surround Trump either oppose his America first trade policy or are part of a dissident faction among the elite.

    The elite sold out America and the average American and you support a continuance of the trade policies they used to do it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You don't get to pretend that monetary policy is the only factor in the world or that the oligarch's aren't trying to build up China and make America dependent on our enemies so that we can be subjected to world government, they have openly talked about their plans.
    Yeah, I was talking about that on RPF long before your account handle ever existed here.

    The banker types that surround Trump either oppose his America first trade policy or are part of a dissident faction among the elite.

    The elite sold out America and the average American and you support a continuance of the trade policies they used to do it.
    And there's where you veer into fantasy land again...

    You don't hire people that oppose your policies to advise you on policy. That's ludicrous. Since Trump never calls out the Fed for what they're really doing, he either isn't aware or he is complicit or he is simply too scared to truly be an agent of any changes that are not part of the banker's plan.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Yeah, I was talking about that on RPF long before your account handle ever existed here.
    And it seems that you have decided to support them.


    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    And there's where you veer into fantasy land again...

    You don't hire people that oppose your policies to advise you on policy. That's ludicrous.
    He has hired some people who oppose some of his policies and others who support those policies and you are opposing his policies and supporting the policies that sell out America.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Since Trump never calls out the Fed for what they're really doing, he either isn't aware or he is complicit or he is simply too scared to truly be an agent of any changes that are not part of the banker's plan.
    Trump: Federal Reserve is my biggest threat

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And it seems that you have decided to support them.
    Support what? Tariffs? Bankers? This discussion is becoming rather ludicrous itself.

    He has hired some people who oppose some of his policies and others who support those policies and you are opposing his policies and supporting the policies that sell out America.
    You don't hire people who oppose your policies. Again, that's ludicrous. You can't spin that in anything remotely rational.

    He is quoted as wanting the Fed to continue the same loose monetary policy of the last 20 years and that's your argument that Trump is against Fed policy???
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Support what? Tariffs? Bankers? This discussion is becoming rather ludicrous itself.
    You support "free" trade, the destruction of America and the supremacy of China, those are all bankster goals and your attempts to weasel out of being on the side of the banksters are rather ludicrous.



    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    You don't hire people who oppose your policies. Again, that's ludicrous. You can't spin that in anything remotely rational.
    They don't oppose all of his policies and it is hard to find people who agree with you 100%



    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    He is quoted as wanting the Fed to continue the same loose monetary policy of the last 20 years and that's your argument that Trump is against Fed policy???
    Their current policy is to hike rates and he is setting them up as the bad guy.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He has hired some people who oppose some of his policies and others who support those policies and you are opposing his policies and supporting the policies that sell out America.
    So Trump has hired some people that sell out America? Is that treason?

  21. #48
    Trump on twitter today:

    Those billions going to the Federal Government are being paid by US businesses and consumers- not the foreign companies or countries.



    Great trade deals he has negotiated? Only a "NAFTA light" which allows the US to sell a few more gallons of milk to Canada. Not much else changed from the old NAFTA. Oh yeah, Mexico now has to pay auto workers $15 an hour for products they sell to the US. Did he end tariff for the agreement? No. Still in place. EU? No agreement. Other than to temporarily not add any more tariffs to the ones already in place. No talks. China? No agreement.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 10-23-2018 at 12:32 PM.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Trump on twitter today:

    Those billions going to the Federal Government are being paid by US businesses and consumers- not the foreign companies or countries.
    For the most part they are coming out of the price reductions that China is using to compensate and the weakening Chinese currency.
    #Winning

    You complained when Trump cut taxes so you should be glad that he increased tariffs, tariffs are much better than the income tax he cut, you can avoid them by not buying things and the Chinese are absorbing most of the cost as I explained.



    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Great trade deals he has negotiated? Only a "NAFTA light" which allows the US to sell a few more gallons of milk to Canada. Not much else changed from the old NAFTA. Oh yeah, Mexico now has to pay auto workers $15 an hour for products they sell to the US. Did he end tariff for the agreement? No. Still in place. EU? No agreement. Other than to temporarily not add any more tariffs to the ones already in place. No talks. China? No agreement.
    The USMCA isn't good enough but it is an improvement over NAFTA in more ways than you give it credit for, the other negotiations aren't over yet.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    [Zippy] complained when Trump cut taxes so [Zippy] should be glad that he increased tariffs, tariffs are much better than the income tax he cut, you can avoid them by not buying things and the Chinese are absorbing most of the cost as I explained.
    Ya, why isn't zippy celebrating lower debt like in the other thread where he was sarcastically celebrating higher debt due to the tax cuts?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
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    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Ya, why isn't zippy celebrating lower debt like in the other thread where he was sarcastically celebrating higher debt due to the tax cuts?
    Zippy is a globalist communist, he wants a heavy income tax and zero tariffs no matter how many tariffs/barriers other countries put on us.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #52
    Ron Paul doesn't like tariffs either. http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arch...ot-the-answer/

    Tariffs Are Not the Answer

    President Trump’s planned 25 percent tariff on steel imports and 10 percent tariff on aluminum imports may provide a temporary boost for those industries, but the tariffs will do tremendous long-term damage to the American and global economies. Tariffs raise the price of, and reduce demand for, imported goods. Tariffs ensure the preferences of politicians, instead of the preferences of consumers, to determine how resources are allocated. This reduces economic efficiency and living standards.

    Some justify these economic inefficiencies as being worth it to save American jobs. This ignores how tariffs increase costs of production for industries reliant on imported materials to produce their products. These increased costs lead to job losses in those industries. For example, President Trump’s proposed steel tariff could cost nearly 40,000 jobs in the steel-dependent auto manufacturing industry. Tariffs also cause job losses in industries reliant on exports. This is especially true if — as is likely to be the case — other countries respond to President Trump’s actions by increasing tariffs on US products.
    More at link.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ron Paul doesn't like tariffs either. http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arch...ot-the-answer/



    More at link.
    Ron is wrong on a very few issues and tariffs are one of them but even if he was right they are an improvement over the income tax.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Ron is wrong on a very few issues and tariffs are one of them but even if he was right they are an improvement over the income tax.
    Then let's replace the income tax with a big enough tariff to even balance our budget. That will be 200% on every item from food to energy meaning triple current prices. Of course our imports would drop by a huge amount so the tariffs would be even higher. Countries would react and impose their own tariffs on our goods. Our exports dry up and lose thousands of jobs. Companies who use imported goods to produce their goods would be unable to compete and go out of business. Thousands of more jobs gone. And everybody gets the pleasure of paying significantly more for everything they buy. MAGA!

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Then let's replace the income tax with a big enough tariff to even balance our budget. That will be 200% on every item from food to energy meaning triple current prices. Of course our imports would drop by a huge amount so the tariffs would be even higher. Countries would react and impose their own tariffs on our goods. Our exports dry up and lose thousands of jobs. Companies who use imported goods to produce their goods would be unable to compete and go out of business. Thousands of more jobs gone. And everybody gets the pleasure of paying significantly more for everything they buy. MAGA!
    We can't do that at current spending levels but any amount that we can shift from income taxes to tariffs is good.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We can't do that at current spending levels but any amount that we can shift from income taxes to tariffs is good.
    Why do you hate jobs? Tariffs destroy jobs.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Why do you hate jobs? Tariffs destroy jobs.
    LOL
    The World Turned Upside Down
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by brushfire View Post
    Ford should have taken the bailout and kept producing cars that dont sell. Grain, sugar, and steel - we all benefit from central planning. ...and if you disagree with me, your a commie loving leftist libtard.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Why do you hate jobs? Tariffs destroy jobs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    LOL
    The World Turned Upside Down
    MILLIONS of US jobs have been lost as a result of Washington’s increased trade deficit with Beijing since China joined the World Trade Organisation (WTO) 17 years ago, a new report has revealed.

    The report, issued by the Economic Policy Institute, outlines the impact of China’s rapid economic growth, which propelled it to be the world’s second-largest economy.
    Over the 17 years since China joined the WTO, US-China trade has cost 3.4million American jobs, with losses occurring across the board in every US state.
    The report said: “China’s trade-distorting practices, aided by China’s currency manipulation and misalignment and its suppression of wages and labour rights, resulted in a flood of dumped and subsidised imports that greatly exceeded the growth of US exports to China.”
    It also cites Beijing’s failure to implement policies that would have brought a “promised surge” of American goods to the Chinese market as another reason for the job losses.

    More at: https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...f-sanction-WTO
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  35. #60
    Strong US dollar makes other currencies weaker- making our exports to them more expensive and their exports to us cheaper- adding to trade deficits.

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